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PoliticalGround >> Hamas: Israel exists


1/12/07 4:30 PM
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kot1k
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Edited: 12-Jan-07
Member Since: 03/15/2002
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Hubris, I understand what you are saying, but for the umpteenth time...they have NO GUARANTEES. There was no indication that this would happen after they withdrew from Gaza. NONE. What makes you think that after they return to the '67 borders this would not continue? Can you hear me? Am I getting through at all? Speakie English?
1/12/07 4:35 PM
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The Mat Pimp
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Edited: 12-Jan-07 04:39 PM
Member Since: 05/18/2006
Posts: 992
Yes, I want to play. Israel has backed itself into a corner with its brutal thug tactics, all of which preceded Palestinian terrorism. India was conquered and homogenized by British force, then partitioned into East and West Pakistan and modern India. If force is the accepted means, per your exemplar, then fine--sit back and watch Israel burn. Now, your questions: "Who shells border towns with rockets?" That would be Israel, particularly if you live in a Lebanese border town. "Who highjacks airlines, kills senior citizens, executes olympic athletes, suicide bombs pizzarias, nighclubs full of kids, hotels, buses?" To which I respond, who assaults refugee camps, assassinates elected leaders and kidnaps others, abducts foreign nationals, disseminates international deathsquads, holds people indefinitely without trial, etc. etc. Numerically speaking, Israel has way more blood on their hands than the Palestinian people, who are defending the only home they will ever have. "Who blows up baracks full off US Marines?" Lebanese Hezbollah, not the Palestinians. Get a hold of yourself, son. Israel is doomed by their own racist savagery.
1/12/07 4:37 PM
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The Mat Pimp
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Edited: 12-Jan-07
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It's illegal for mixed race couples to get married in Israel. They have to go to Cyprus.
1/12/07 4:43 PM
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kot1k
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Edited: 12-Jan-07
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Moral relativism will get you everywhere. With it's social problems, Israel is still far and away the most progressive society in the ME. For fucks sake, the hold a gay pride parade in Jerusalem. As for Israel being doomed, LMAO. They are a modern western country with strong infrastructure, and an economy that any other nation in the middle east can only dream about. You started out well, with some logic and good arguments, try to keep up.
1/12/07 4:49 PM
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hubris
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Edited: 12-Jan-07
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Hubris, I understand what you are saying, but for the umpteenth time...they have NO GUARANTEES. There was no indication that this would happen after they withdrew from Gaza. NONE. What makes you think that after they return to the '67 borders this would not continue? What do you mean guarantees? The Gaza withdraw was a unilateral action by Israel, there was no agreement on the final borders. The Israelis said nothing about accepting the 67 borders. As far as the resistance movement was concerned Israel would continue to occupy the west bank. This is evident by the building of new settlements and building of the security barrier where ever Israel saw fit.
1/12/07 4:57 PM
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The Mat Pimp
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Edited: 12-Jan-07
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"Moral relativism will get you everywhere. With it's social problems, Israel is still far and away the most progressive society in the ME. For fucks sake, the hold a gay pride parade in Jerusalem." "Progressive"? Interesting. I would have thought a nation founded on extreme racial and religious prejudice couldn't be described as such. "As for Israel being doomed, LMAO. They are a modern western country with strong infrastructure, and an economy that any other nation in the middle east can only dream about." Then we should stop bankrolling them immediately. They don't need us, right? In reality, Israel's economy is in tatters, and there are many ME countries like UAE, Qatar, Kuwait, etc. that enjoy better economic conditions. But your lie sounded good. "You started out well, with some logic and good arguments, try to keep up." I'll do what I can, but you just keep the platitudes coming.
1/12/07 4:57 PM
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kot1k
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Edited: 12-Jan-07
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Finaly we agree on something. Since there are no guarantees or indications (based on actions, not empty words) Israel will not withdraw from the West Bank. The peace process is stalled and pretty much dead. Hamas will continue shelling Israel, and a suicide bomber will sneak through once in a while. Israel will continue targeted killings. Civilians will die along with militants. A more hawkish PM will be elected (after Olmert's upcoming exit) and the cycle will continue ed nauseum. People will continue to die on both sides.
1/12/07 5:03 PM
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hubris
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Edited: 12-Jan-07
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Finaly we agree on something. Since there are no guarantees or indications (based on actions, not empty words) Israel will not withdraw from the West Bank. The peace process is stalled and pretty much dead. Yes but there are indications from Hamas, they have stated that they are willing to recognize Israel if they can get a Palestinian state within 67 borders. That is the point of this thread. So now who is stalling the peace process?
1/12/07 5:04 PM
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kot1k
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Edited: 12-Jan-07
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"In reality, Israel's economy is in tatters, and there are many ME countries like UAE, Qatar, Kuwait, etc. that enjoy better economic conditions. But your lie sounded good." Israel $ 156,900,000,000 2005 est United Arab Emirates $ 115,800,000,000 2005 est. Kuwait $ 47,360,000,000 2005 est Qatar $ 24,460,000,000 2005 est The economy rebounded in 2003 and 2004, growing at a 4% rate each year, as the government tightened fiscal policy and implemented structural reforms to boost competition and efficiency in the markets. In 2005, rising consumer confidence, tourism, and foreign direct investment - as well as higher demand for Israeli exports - boosted GDP by 4.7%. Hmmmm. A diversified economy not based on oil price fluctuations. Oh yeah, the Arab states have them beat. For fucks sake, lets argue the point. The point is that Israel has no incentive to allow the Palestinian state to exist in 1967 borders. What can the Palestinians do to make this situation change?
1/12/07 5:06 PM
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The Mat Pimp
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Edited: 12-Jan-07
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Those numbers should be indexed against populations, smart guy.
1/12/07 5:06 PM
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kot1k
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Hubris, Hamas' indication towards recognition are irrelevant. Whether they recognize Israel or not doesn't change the facts on the ground. When the military wing of Hamas stops carrying out attacks against Israely interests, only then will recognition, or the willingness to do so will be meaningful.
1/12/07 5:08 PM
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kot1k
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Edited: 12-Jan-07
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Mat Pimp, please explain how the 4.5% GDP growth in 2005 reflects your statement of the Israely economy being in "tatters".
1/12/07 5:09 PM
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kot1k
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Edited: 12-Jan-07
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Anyhoo guys and gals. It's 5 on Friday, and I'm going home. It's been fun killing an afternoon with you, as always. See you monday, same OG time, same OG channel. Oh yeah, peace and power to the people or some shit like that.
1/12/07 5:10 PM
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hubris
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Edited: 12-Jan-07
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Hubris, Hamas' indication towards recognition are irrelevant. Whether they recognize Israel or not doesn't change the facts on the ground. Because Israel is still in the occupied territories keeping up their evil apartheid system. When the military wing of Hamas stops carrying out attacks against Israely interests, only then will recognition, or the willingness to do so will be meaningful. When Israel wants peace, it knows what to do. They can withdraw from the 67 borders and recognize a Palestinian state. Hamas - the democratically elected government of the Palestinian people - has already indicated what it wants. That is the point of this thread, no matter how much you want to try to ignore it.
1/12/07 5:10 PM
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The Mat Pimp
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Edited: 12-Jan-07
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"explain how the 4.5% GDP growth in 2005 reflects your statement of the Israely economy being in "tatters"." They had a war in 2006.
1/12/07 5:15 PM
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The Mat Pimp
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Edited: 12-Jan-07
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Now, for some math: Israel has a population of 6.2 million, and a GDP of $156,900,000,000. UAE has a population of 2.6 million, and a GDP of $115,800,000,000. Which country is wealthier, on a per capita basis? By far? And that doesn't even count the 6 million Palestinians that have been exiled from Israel. Sorry chief, but you lose.

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