UnderGround Forums
 

PoliticalGround >> False flag operation: Persian Gulf


1/15/07 1:27 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
New World Samurai
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 15-Jan-07
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 6088
"Does MAD work when one of the two parties has already demonstrated a propensity for self-destruction?" No, it doesn't.
1/15/07 1:32 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
New World Samurai
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 15-Jan-07
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 6089
== "Your grasp of human nature and Islamic culture is nigh suicidal." = What are you saying? That given a state, the genes of Palestinians will dictate that they try to kill Israelis whereever they find them? Careful. Note that I said "human" nature and "Islamic" *culture*. hubris believes that withdrawing from one set of arbitrary borders to another set will satify an Arab (and Persian) world which has been calling for Israel's complete destruction for decades. I don't believe that. OBL was being honest when he said that the Arab world favors "the strong horse". Weakness is something to be exploited, not admired, in that culture. Israeli withdrawl will be perceived (rightly or wrongly) as weakness. = Do you agree then with Bush that Muslims only need freedom and democracy in order to become peaceful citizens of the world? Good Lord no. Culture is hard to change, and the Islamic world is currently in a deep cultural hole.
1/15/07 1:40 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
New World Samurai
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 15-Jan-07
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 6090
"But that is beside the point because Ahmadinejad is not a mad man. He is a well educated university professor, a scholar and peaceful man." Don't mind me while I save that quote. It might well rank up there with "peace in our time". OK, claiming that God hypnotized the entire UN while he was talking to it is PERFECTLY NORMAL behavior. Nothing to worry about here. They need those nukes for perfectly peaceful reasons. "-The Israeli nukes make war with it impossible. The Arab states know this, that's why they proposed the Beirut declaration of 2002. This has nothing to do with Islamic culture." It would not be a conventional war. "-The preisdent of Iran is the 5th most powerful man in the Iranian government. Within the Iranian constitutional framework, he does not have the executive powers to start wars much less launch the imaginary nuclear weapons." Iran having the weapons is just the first step in the proliferation of those weapons. That is the real threat. How long after Iran gets the bomb until Saudi Arabia gets the bomb?
1/15/07 1:46 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Information
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 15-Jan-07
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 14237
No, it doesn't. I didn't think so.
1/15/07 1:48 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Crazy Zimmerman
314 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 15-Jan-07
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 23753
"Iran having the weapons is just the first step in the proliferation of those weapons. That is the real threat. How long after Iran gets the bomb until Saudi Arabia gets the bomb?" The big problem is that China and Russia are feverishly arming Iran. Our presence in Iraq directly threatens their energy needs. They HAVE to arm Iran, even though they probably don't like the idea. We didn't start started the ME arms race, but our invasion accelerated it and now it's too late to stop it, becuase the other world powers NEED Iran to be invasion-proof.
1/15/07 1:48 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
hubris
225 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 15-Jan-07
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 53126
-It is perfectly normal in American society to have faith in God. According to you it is insanity to have faith in Islam rather than Christianity. -Iran needs nuclear energy to provide energy to it's citizens. There is nothing wrong or illegal about this. -Any conventional war which threatens the existence of Israel will result in an immediate counter strike by Israeli nuclear forces to destroy the aggressors. This is the nuclear deterrent that Israel has, that is why the Arab states will not start a total war again. -The only way to stop nuclear proliferation is for the great powers to abide by the NPT and disarm their weapons. Unfortunately the great powers will refuse to give up their nuclear weapons because what they have instituted what the Indians refer to as Nuclear Apartheid. The Great powers will keep their weapons while denying that right to other nations.
1/15/07 1:54 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
New World Samurai
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 15-Jan-07
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 6091
"Unfortunately the great powers will refuse to give up their nuclear weapons because what they have instituted what the Indians refer to as Nuclear Apartheid. The Great powers will keep their weapons while denying that right to other nations." We have three possibilities: 1. No one has nuclear weapons. 2. Just the current incumbents have nuclear weapons. 3. Everyone has nuclear weapons. #1 is fantasyland. Only unserious people consider it. I prefer #2 to #3. It is that simple.
1/15/07 1:59 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
New World Samurai
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 15-Jan-07
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 6092
"-It is perfectly normal in American society to have faith in God. According to you it is insanity to have faith in Islam rather than Christianity." Don't speak for me. I consider moderate and conservative (in the sense of conservative temperament) religiosity beneficial. I consider extreme and apocalyptic religiosity dangerous. Unfortunately, for historical reasons, Islam is largely an aggressive religion, and Shiism is a highly apocalyptic branch of Islam. When Bush starts talking about having hypnotized the entire UN, then I'll start worrying. You don't seem to be much worried about evidence of his instability.
1/15/07 2:02 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
New World Samurai
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 15-Jan-07
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 6093
" This is not always true and this is where the true fear lies. Once Iran gains the ability and gets the bomb, they can pass off a crude version of one to terrorist orginazations who will in turn use them on us. It would be hard to find evidence to link it back to Iran. The same fear existed with Iraq, despite the fact they did not have have any WMD's they had the knowhow to pass on to others. This allowed them to keep their hands clean and deny such actions. If some small faction of terroist using suppiled nuke technogoly given to them by Iran attacked a US city. The USA (especially now) would never be able to make the case to Nuke Iran. It would be pure speculation and many would treat it as an isolated group of terroist acting out. The MAD theory would not be justified" Whoa now. You're making sense. That is unacceptable on a hubris thread. Please start spouting utopian gibberish immediately.
1/15/07 2:04 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
New World Samurai
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 15-Jan-07
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 6094
"The big problem is that China and Russia are feverishly arming Iran." Yes, that is a big problem. "Our presence in Iraq directly threatens their energy needs." That is probably their perception, yes. "They HAVE to arm Iran, even though they probably don't like the idea." Yes, that might be included in their calculation.
1/15/07 2:06 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
sparkyman
47 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 15-Jan-07
Member Since: 12/02/2002
Posts: 4554

"OK, claiming that God hypnotized the entire UN while he was talking to it is PERFECTLY NORMAL behavior. "

How is that crazier than this:

"President Bush said to all of us: 'I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, "George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan." And I did, and then God would tell me, "George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq …" And I did. '"

Not much difference when you take out the cultural/language differences.

1/15/07 2:11 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
hubris
225 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 15-Jan-07
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 53128
-"2. Just the current incumbents have nuclear weapons." This is a total failure and unrealistic. The great powers are not the only ones with nukes now. India, Pakistan, North Korea, and pretty soon Japan and South Korea will want to join the club. -Ahmadinejad is clearly an intelligent man and as is required by politicians, they will use colourful language in speeches. Only in your warped world does this equate to insanity.
1/15/07 2:14 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
New World Samurai
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 15-Jan-07
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 6095
OK, sparkyman. My quotes have been from legitimate sources including the President of Iran's own web site. Where can I see or hear for myself Bush saying this? I didn't think so. Your quote is manufactured. The White House claims that no such utterance happened. Typical: make things up. I'm no Bush fan, but I hate lazy and deceptive people even more. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/13/AR2005101301688.html "This time there is a response: "We checked contemporaneous notes from the meeting with President Abbas and did not find a single reference to God," a senior administration official told us. "The closest thing we could find that the president said is: 'My government and I personally are committed to the vision of a Palestinian state.' " Back in 2004, a White House spokesman told Mennonite Weekly columnist Brubaker that Bush "likely talked about his own faith," as he often does, but did not say God speaks through him."
1/15/07 2:14 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
hubris
225 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 15-Jan-07
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 53129
If some small faction of terroist using suppiled nuke technogoly given to them by Iran attacked a US city. The USA (especially now) would never be able to make the case to Nuke Iran. Wow you're fucking brilliant, no really you are. The Soviets should have used that strategy during the cold war because then they would be totally safe from a nuclear response. Because the USA would have no proof that the Soviets provided terrorist groups with nukes, and they would not be able to make a case to nuke back the Soviets. Fucking brilliant
1/15/07 2:18 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
New World Samurai
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 15-Jan-07
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 6097
"This is a total failure and unrealistic. The great powers are not the only ones with nukes now. India, Pakistan, North Korea, and pretty soon Japan and South Korea will want to join the club." Typical utopian reponse: it's bad now, so if we can't make it perfect then who cares if it's worse? "Only in your warped world does this equate to insanity." You keep skipping over his claim to Allah having hypnotized the UN. Maybe this was his own little joke?
1/15/07 2:20 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
hubris
225 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 15-Jan-07 02:19 PM
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 53131
-not a utopian response, just pointing out your illogical position. You need to wake up . -God does many things like blessing the USA, and making appearances on the USA dollar bill but I don't make the conclusion that Christian believers are insane.
1/15/07 2:21 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
New World Samurai
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 15-Jan-07
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 6098
"The Soviets should have used that strategy during the cold war because then they would be totally safe from a nuclear response." The Soviets were the only enemy source of nuclear material. We would have assumed it was them and acted accordingly. In a world where the PRNK, Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc. all have the bomb, we can make no such presumption.
1/15/07 2:23 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
hubris
225 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 15-Jan-07
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 53132
-Chinese had nuclear weapons as well. But still your strategy is just fucking brilliant. The Russians - using your strategy - could still destroy the USA. The Chinese could do the same. it's foolproof
1/15/07 2:23 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
sparkyman
47 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 15-Jan-07
Member Since: 12/02/2002
Posts: 4557
"Your quote is manufactured. The White House claims that no such utterance happened.

Typical: make things up. I'm no Bush fan, but I hate lazy and deceptive people even more. "

I think that Iran has mentioned that their president was misquoted a few times as well. I'll certainly believe anything the whitehouse tells me.

Secondly, I didn't intentionally try to deceive you, I'm certainly not lazy, and 'hate' is a pretty strong word.

 

1/15/07 2:24 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
New World Samurai
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 15-Jan-07
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 6099
"-God does many things like blessing the USA, and making appearances on the USA dollar bill but I don't make the conclusion that Christian believers are insane." All of these things are ancient and ceremonial. The Founders talked a pretty good God game without really buying into it. There are insane Christians. There are Christians who would like to hasten the end of the world and the Second Coming. I've read their essays. If I thought Bush were one of them, I'd be as worried about him as Ahmadinejad.
1/15/07 2:28 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
hubris
225 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 15-Jan-07 02:28 PM
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 53133
-Mention of God is not purely ceremonial, that is a huge slap to the face to the millions of Christians in the USA and the born-again fundamentalist President of the USA who truly believe and have faith in God. -I believe most of what Bush says is just colourful language to get votes.
1/15/07 2:28 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
New World Samurai
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 15-Jan-07
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 6100
"I think that Iran has mentioned that their president was misquoted a few times as well." I have provided links to the Iranian President's website and Al Jazeera. Being a natural skeptic, I always check my quotes. "I'll certainly believe anything the whitehouse tells me." My point is that the only source for that quote is someone who dislikes the President. Show me the video or audio. I don't mean hate in a personal sense, of course.
1/15/07 2:30 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
hubris
225 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 15-Jan-07 02:30 PM
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 53134
-Al Jazeera is a secular news service which caters to the Arab street, they do not automatically support the Persians or all Muslims. -The Iranian president makes no such ridiculous claims on his website.
1/15/07 2:31 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
New World Samurai
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 15-Jan-07
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 6101
"-Mention of God is not purely ceremonial, that is a huge slap to the face to the millions of Christians in the USA and the born-again fundamentalist President of the USA who truly believe and have faith in God." OK, defender of the faith. Of course it is. There is a term for it: "ceremonial deism". "-I believe most of what Bush says is just colourful language to get votes." You have discovered that Bush is a politician. Bravo. Good to be yelling with you again, hubris. Hope you're doing well.
1/15/07 2:33 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
hubris
225 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 15-Jan-07
Member Since: 01/01/2001
Posts: 53135
-Please do not belittle the Christian faith in God as a sign of insanity. -Yes so you're finally understanding what I'm trying to say. Bush is a politician. So is Ahamadinejad. Neither is insane.

Reply Post

You must log in to post a reply. Click here to login.