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PoliticalGround >> Iran scientists find cure for AIDS


2/6/07 1:15 PM
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jimformation23
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Edited: 06-Feb-07
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good lord yea, iran is going to hand over the most powerful weapon in the history of mankind to some radicals, even though doing so gaisn them nothing, might cost them everything, and they cannot be sure where or on who it will actually be used right
2/6/07 2:54 PM
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jimformation23
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Edited: 06-Feb-07
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"They definetly can't set it up and make it look like radicals... 100% correct." lol@ you you are so tied to being afraid that you arent using logic to look at just how silly your assertions are
2/6/07 3:06 PM
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jimformation23
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Edited: 06-Feb-07
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"You don't explain WHAT is silly about my assertions, instead you just proudly proclaim that they "are" and laugh to yourself????" I have typed this on these threads a hundred times, here it is once more Iran gains nothing from a nuke going off anywhere. It does not change the regional power structure in a way Iran stand to lose EVERYTHING by a nuke going off. Even if the US cant PROVE who did it, we would raise hell all over the middle east, everywhere Iran cannot control how such a bomb would be used, who it would be used on, couldnt keep it from being re sold or stolen any questions?
2/6/07 3:19 PM
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jimformation23
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Edited: 06-Feb-07
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"What makes you positive this will remain the case indefinietly?" because since the first nukes were dropped to put an end to WWII, no one has had anything to gain and much to lose by one being used Nukes are wonderful deterrents, terrible weapons because of the price paid if one is used "If the situation arose where Iran felt threatend and needed to set off a nuke somewhere, it wouldn't simply GIVE it to some rouge organization with instructions on what to do." thats one hell of an if and what would ONE nuke do? drive the US into a beserk fury and lead to genocide. No one is going to argue fine legal points of proff if this happens, hell, 9-11 (nothing compared to what a nuclear explosion would do) lead to invade Iraq, a country not even remotely connected to al qaeda Iran isnt stupid, if they get nukes, it will to prevent US strikes on them and deter any threat of invasion
2/6/07 3:33 PM
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thagefighter
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Edited: 06-Feb-07
Member Since: 10/27/2005
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LOOK OUT IRANIAN PREZ! Its a trap! I think they're JEWS!

2/6/07 3:37 PM
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jimformation23
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Edited: 06-Feb-07
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"Do you think every country should be allowed to have nuclear weapons?" no, we should do what we can to discourage it, as long as that damage more important concerns but, with russian and chinese backing, and considering that the rest of the powerful nations dont see Iran as a threat, and since we wont even talk to them, there isnt much that CAN be done. Because of the invasion of Iraq, we have no good options
2/6/07 3:40 PM
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jimformation23
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"jimformation23 - good answer." good debate
2/6/07 3:47 PM
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JoeBoxer212
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Edited: 06-Feb-07
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KneeUppercut- You do understand that not everyone sees the world through the Prisoner's Dilemma?
2/6/07 3:52 PM
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jimformation23
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"You do understand that not everyone sees the world through the Prisoner's Dilemma?" what is that?
2/6/07 4:05 PM
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sloppy2nds
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Edited: 06-Feb-07
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"An herbal cure for AIDS? Last time I checked that disease was a VIRUS, and so far we have no cure for even the common cold or flu which are both viruses."

'Cure' has a certain cultural relativism.  Their herbal cure is a healthy dose of hemlock, which kills the virus along with the filthy homosexual carrying it. 

2/6/07 4:16 PM
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jimformation23
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interesting, hard to see how it applies here
2/6/07 4:25 PM
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JoeBoxer212
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Edited: 06-Feb-07 04:30 PM
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Jimformation is saying that the U.S. should allow Iran to attain nuclear capabilities (correct me if I am wrong). The argument being that no sane country would use such nuclear weapons as it assured mutual destruction and retaliation. However, this is assuming that you are dealing with "rational" actors who think along the same lines as yourself. According to game theory (prisoner's dilemma), both Iran and the U.S. would never use the nuclear weapon as it would not serve their self interest in the long run. But again, you are assuming that the other player shares your same rationale. I think suicide bombers are irrational. But to someone who believes that by blowing themselves up and killing others that they will make it into paradise and be rewarded with virgins this is a perfectly rationale choice. When you deal with religious fundamentalists, I'm just not sure if you can assume that they will share your same worldview. I think sloppy2nds may be correct.
2/6/07 4:25 PM
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HELWIG
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Edited: 06-Feb-07
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"i attend Harvard University." I figured as much. Only someone college educated could have possibly said something that idealistic and completely ridiculous. So any African or Middle East country that gets taken over in a coup is therefore entitled to develop nuclear weapons. Excellent. That sounds like a very responsible way to ensure world peace and stability.
2/6/07 4:26 PM
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jimformation23
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"but it seemed that KneeUpercut was saying that the U.S. should allow Iran to attain nuclear capabilities" not at all "However, this is assuming that you are dealing with "rational" actors " I ahve yet to see even a semi coherent argument that shows iranian irrationality, but I see your point
2/6/07 4:31 PM
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JoeBoxer212
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Edited: 06-Feb-07 04:31 PM
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Edited above. Sorry Kneeupercut for mixing up the arguments. The post should have been addressed to Jinformation and not to you.
2/6/07 4:31 PM
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jimformation23
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Edited: 06-Feb-07 04:38 PM
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"In the case of allowing Iran to have nuclear weapons, it's in USA's best interest NOT to allow them to have weapons." I agree, but you have to accept that the USA is not operating in a vacuum and that our power, while great, is finite. And there are MUCH worse scenarios for the US than Iran slapping some nukes together. One must weigh the cost of them having a nuke against the cost of us assuring that they never get one
2/6/07 4:31 PM
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jimformation23
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"USA needs to get its pawn on Iran and diffuse their power over the region IF they want to remain the worlds SOLE superpower.' that isnt going to happen, in time, China and perhaps India will share that title with us
2/6/07 4:34 PM
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JoeBoxer212
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Edited: 06-Feb-07
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Please enlighten us Tycoonman
2/6/07 4:40 PM
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JoeBoxer212
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From my basic understanding of game theory, if both Iran and the U.S. had nuclear capabilities the rational choice for both countries would be to abstain from using them as it would assure mutual destruction. Is this wrong? And if so, then please ENLIGHTEN me. I seriously would like to know. If you can't explain it, then you must not understand it well enough yourself. =)
2/6/07 4:59 PM
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JoeBoxer212
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Edited: 06-Feb-07 05:01 PM
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Yes there are four possible outcomes to the prisoner's dilemma. Player A confesses, and Player B confesses. Player A confesses, and Player B does not. Player B confesses, and Player A does not. Player A does not, and Player B does not. "the "winner", in essense, leaves free while the other is convicted." I disagree TycoonMan. While I did sleep through most of my political science class, I'm pretty certain that the goal of the prisoner's dilemma was mutual cooperation to gain the maximum payoff.
2/6/07 5:03 PM
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jellyman
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Edited: 06-Feb-07
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Maybe what was meant was zero-sum game cure for AIDS huh? That would be nice, but of course more information is required
2/6/07 6:06 PM
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JoeBoxer212
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"the "winner", in essense, leaves free while the other is convicted." Here's the problem. When both players seek their maximum payoff, they end up blocking each other. The dominant strategy would be to not put yourself in a vulnerable position to be screwed over by the other player. But if both players were to cooperate, they could both improve their payoff without causing the other to lose. They both "win". The prisoner's dilemma is an example of a non zero sum game where both players can benefit/gain without the other player losing in the exchange. The prisoner's dilemma encourages cooperation. While it is an overly simplistic model, it does suggest that mutual cooperation leads to the best payoff for both parties. I went to U.C. Berkeley. Maybe they taught us poor public school kids one thing, and you rich "Ivy Leaguers" another. =)
2/6/07 9:23 PM
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jellyman
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' jellyman, good call on the zero-sum If you're referring to the prisoners dilemma, it's a NON-zero-sum game, not a zero-sum game. ' I thought he meant that KneeUppercut was approaching global politics like it was a zero-sum game. Prisoners dilemma is not.
2/7/07 10:45 AM
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stobe
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Edited: 07-Feb-07
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Wow, thats great news! Maybe they can find a cure for there culture as well.
2/7/07 1:32 PM
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jimformation23
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Edited: 07-Feb-07
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