Art Vandelay's Pro Wrestling Ground Anyone watch Bret on Broken Skull last night?

18 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 8978

Was awesome.  My fave breakdown of the Screwjob and a facinating breakdown of Austin/Bret at WM 13.  

REQUIRED viewing if you are a fan of these two guys. 

18 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 8979

Plus I loved how hard he shot on Goldberg at the end

18 days ago
10/8/07
Posts: 13532

I made it half way through and got bored. Would've preferred if they talked more about the positives of Brets career instead of focusing on the Montreal screwjob and Brets time in WCW.

It's almost sad that he still seems so bitter about stuff that happened 20+ years ago.

18 days ago
11/11/11
Posts: 24509

Yeah i enjoyed it but was a bit annoyed they revisited territory thats been done to death. Bret with a quickness took shots at flair and goldberg

18 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 8982

I loved the rehashed bits.  Particularly the stuff about Bret's tactical awerness before he KO'd Vince lol

15 days ago
9/24/18
Posts: 3281

Bret just can't help himself. Actually, I don't know that he just doesn't realise anymore how salty and bitter he comes off. He takes shots at everyone. 

The funniest one though was when he called Vader an "out of control elephant' and Austin immediately asked a question to change the subject. 

I was always a huge Bret fan but the last 10 years or so of listening to his bitter shit just makes me roll my eyes now. 

15 days ago
11/11/11
Posts: 24524

Yeah ita funny. For the longest it seemed like he was in a better place but that austin interview made it seem like he is in give-no-fucks mode. He seemed to shamelessly go out of his way to bury people. Name dropping flair when talking about lame worked nut shots for example

6 days ago
2/25/12
Posts: 4232

Brets in a good place considering the things hes been through I just think any mention of this brings back certain  feelings 

 

The Bret vs Shawn greatest rivalries Doc is the best look at the screw job, just him Shawn and JR talking about it in the same room. Bret definitely loved Vince and I think that's why he took it so hard

6 days ago
6/22/12
Posts: 1326

He was straight up betrayed by someone that was very close to him, and with the help of someone he genuinely hates. I think he has a right to be bitter. 

6 days ago
2/25/12
Posts: 4233
SuperKamiGuru -

He was straight up betrayed by someone that was very close to him, and with the help of someone he genuinely hates. I think he has a right to be bitter. 

Its fucking sad that all the guys that turned their back on Vince and went to WCW for the money and he does this to his most loyal guy, who even said he knew he was ultimately passing the torch to Shawn over the next few years and he was okay with it 

 

Bret carrying on in WWE and wrestling guys like Kurt, Jericho, benoit, eddie, edge etc would've been awesome

6 days ago
3/7/05
Posts: 32278
Nothing short of being acclaimed as the best ever and having the most dominant run of all time was going to make Bret happy. Instead he got double crossed by a father figure, had a shit run in WCW, had his career ended by a careless roid head and watched his brother die in the ring. Nothing was ever going to meet his personal expectations, but DAMN.
6 days ago
11/11/11
Posts: 24607
Dravenlives -

Brets in a good place considering the things hes been through I just think any mention of this brings back certain  feelings 

 

The Bret vs Shawn greatest rivalries Doc is the best look at the screw job, just him Shawn and JR talking about it in the same room. Bret definitely loved Vince and I think that's why he took it so hard

I love that doc. Is it still on the network? cause last time I looked it appeared to have been taken off a few months back

6 days ago
6/22/12
Posts: 1327
Dravenlives -
SuperKamiGuru -

He was straight up betrayed by someone that was very close to him, and with the help of someone he genuinely hates. I think he has a right to be bitter. 

Its fucking sad that all the guys that turned their back on Vince and went to WCW for the money and he does this to his most loyal guy, who even said he knew he was ultimately passing the torch to Shawn over the next few years and he was okay with it 

 

Bret carrying on in WWE and wrestling guys like Kurt, Jericho, benoit, eddie, edge etc would've been awesome

He most likely would of talked Owen out of doing that stunt from the rafters, and his career almost certainly wouldn't of been ended so soon by a shitty kick in the face

6 days ago
2/25/12
Posts: 4235
TheBearStare -
Dravenlives -

Brets in a good place considering the things hes been through I just think any mention of this brings back certain  feelings 

 

The Bret vs Shawn greatest rivalries Doc is the best look at the screw job, just him Shawn and JR talking about it in the same room. Bret definitely loved Vince and I think that's why he took it so hard

I love that doc. Is it still on the network? cause last time I looked it appeared to have been taken off a few months back

Yeah it's still there, I reached survivor series 97 too and it cuts out when Shawn runs to the back...they cut Bret destroying everything

6 days ago
7/12/12
Posts: 3098

Maybe it says more about me than Bret, but he didn't come across as bitter to me on this, an interview I thoroughly enjoyed. What do people expect from an interview asking him to take us through topics like the screwjob and the kick? We've heard it all before and know how he feels (understandably imo), but it was on the agenda regardless. And it's not like he buried Vader. He mentioned in an empathetic tone how "Vader always felt so bad about beating the crap out of" him, sure the humorous elephant remark was strong, but not said in anger. We know what a stickler he is about how safe a wrestler's work ought to be. I always enjoy his upfront candor, despite occasionally finding him too hard on guys (like Rollins and Joe regarding injuries to opponents that I don't think were their fault).

5 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 8712

 

5 days ago
12/30/03
Posts: 22305
Dravenlives -
SuperKamiGuru -

He was straight up betrayed by someone that was very close to him, and with the help of someone he genuinely hates. I think he has a right to be bitter. 

Its fucking sad that all the guys that turned their back on Vince and went to WCW for the money and he does this to his most loyal guy, who even said he knew he was ultimately passing the torch to Shawn over the next few years and he was okay with it 

 

Bret carrying on in WWE and wrestling guys like Kurt, Jericho, benoit, eddie, edge etc would've been awesome

Does what to Bret? Let him go make more money for less work? Ask Bret to leave on his back like everyone else does and has done since the invention of worked wrestling? 


It's crazy to me that anyone would side with Bret on that. He wanted to vacate their title then appear on WCW having never lost their belt. How do you think that would have played out? Think WCW wouldn't have mentioned that fact ad nauseum? 

 

Just take the L and go be rich. 

Edited: 5 days ago
8/19/03
Posts: 28478
Jones right nostril -

Bret just can't help himself. Actually, I don't know that he just doesn't realise anymore how salty and bitter he comes off. He takes shots at everyone. 

The funniest one though was when he called Vader an "out of control elephant' and Austin immediately asked a question to change the subject. 

I was always a huge Bret fan but the last 10 years or so of listening to his bitter shit just makes me roll my eyes now. 

He's an odd guy, for sure.   Very much a mark for himself.   You can clearly tell how much that incident damaged his ego.

 

Bret's ego took over his brain, which is ultimately what led to the Screwjob.  He had been in the business his entire life and knew what the protocol was in those situations.   He just couldn't stand dropping the belt to HBK and that skewed his decision making.

 

It's a work, Bret.  You didn't "beat" nor "lose" to anyone in your entire career. 

 

Also, blaming Vince for WCW's mis-booking and Goldberg's kick is reaching a little bit.  

5 days ago
2/25/12
Posts: 4238
WrestlingSucks -
Dravenlives -
SuperKamiGuru -

He was straight up betrayed by someone that was very close to him, and with the help of someone he genuinely hates. I think he has a right to be bitter. 

Its fucking sad that all the guys that turned their back on Vince and went to WCW for the money and he does this to his most loyal guy, who even said he knew he was ultimately passing the torch to Shawn over the next few years and he was okay with it 

 

Bret carrying on in WWE and wrestling guys like Kurt, Jericho, benoit, eddie, edge etc would've been awesome

Does what to Bret? Let him go make more money for less work? Ask Bret to leave on his back like everyone else does and has done since the invention of worked wrestling? 


It's crazy to me that anyone would side with Bret on that. He wanted to vacate their title then appear on WCW having never lost their belt. How do you think that would have played out? Think WCW wouldn't have mentioned that fact ad nauseum? 

 

Just take the L and go be rich. 

His problem was with Shawn not dropping the belt

5 days ago
11/11/11
Posts: 24620
Size -

Maybe it says more about me than Bret, but he didn't come across as bitter to me on this, an interview I thoroughly enjoyed. What do people expect from an interview asking him to take us through topics like the screwjob and the kick? We've heard it all before and know how he feels (understandably imo), but it was on the agenda regardless. And it's not like he buried Vader. He mentioned in an empathetic tone how "Vader always felt so bad about beating the crap out of" him, sure the humorous elephant remark was strong, but not said in anger. We know what a stickler he is about how safe a wrestler's work ought to be. I always enjoy his upfront candor, despite occasionally finding him too hard on guys (like Rollins and Joe regarding injuries to opponents that I don't think were their fault).

Been a long while since I saw that interview but I feel like he went through a lot of years of healing and was in a better place. However his stone cold interview made me think he has regressed a bit with the bitterness

5 days ago
4/22/07
Posts: 69099
WrestlingSucks -
Dravenlives -
SuperKamiGuru -

He was straight up betrayed by someone that was very close to him, and with the help of someone he genuinely hates. I think he has a right to be bitter. 

Its fucking sad that all the guys that turned their back on Vince and went to WCW for the money and he does this to his most loyal guy, who even said he knew he was ultimately passing the torch to Shawn over the next few years and he was okay with it 

 

Bret carrying on in WWE and wrestling guys like Kurt, Jericho, benoit, eddie, edge etc would've been awesome

Does what to Bret? Let him go make more money for less work? Ask Bret to leave on his back like everyone else does and has done since the invention of worked wrestling? 


It's crazy to me that anyone would side with Bret on that. He wanted to vacate their title then appear on WCW having never lost their belt. How do you think that would have played out? Think WCW wouldn't have mentioned that fact ad nauseum? 

 

Just take the L and go be rich. 

Your opinion is right in 99.9 percent of these types of cases, but he had it in his contract that he had creative control the last however many days. I think he should have just jobbed but shit, I cant blame a guy for exercising his contractual agreement.

4 days ago
9/24/18
Posts: 3297
ShanTheMan - 
WrestlingSucks -
Dravenlives -
SuperKamiGuru -

He was straight up betrayed by someone that was very close to him, and with the help of someone he genuinely hates. I think he has a right to be bitter. 

Its fucking sad that all the guys that turned their back on Vince and went to WCW for the money and he does this to his most loyal guy, who even said he knew he was ultimately passing the torch to Shawn over the next few years and he was okay with it 

 

Bret carrying on in WWE and wrestling guys like Kurt, Jericho, benoit, eddie, edge etc would've been awesome

Does what to Bret? Let him go make more money for less work? Ask Bret to leave on his back like everyone else does and has done since the invention of worked wrestling? 


It's crazy to me that anyone would side with Bret on that. He wanted to vacate their title then appear on WCW having never lost their belt. How do you think that would have played out? Think WCW wouldn't have mentioned that fact ad nauseum? 

 

Just take the L and go be rich. 

Your opinion is right in 99.9 percent of these types of cases, but he had it in his contract that he had creative control the last however many days. I think he should have just jobbed but shit, I cant blame a guy for exercising his contractual agreement.


Bret has said that the comment Shawn made to him about how "he wasn't willing to put Bret over" even though Bret had agreed to put Shawn over at SS is the catalyst to this whole thing. It was the disrespect that Shawn showed to him. In that sense, I can see why Bret refused to do the job to Shawn.

Edited: 4 days ago
11/11/11
Posts: 24627

Bret had it legally in his contract regarding creative control. Bret offered to lose to Michaels(on a different night,) Austin, and shamrock I believe. He just didnt want to lose at that specific event. Not to mention vince screwed bret by breaking their original 20 year deal. Bret never wanted to go to wcw. So thats two contracts vince broke. Bret still had a month left on his contract offering other options and opportunities for bret to lose.

4 days ago
12/30/03
Posts: 22306

Creative control typically has some type of stipulation that it must be within reason. Asking to be champ and expecting a company to trust you'll drop the title the following night even though your contract is up is not reasonable. 

 

I think they should have just had Shamrock take it from him on Raw the week before after DX intereferes, change the match to a triple threat match and have HBK pin Shamrock to take the belt. If Bret thought for one second about shooting, you have Shamrock there to crush him. Bret doesn't have to lose to HBK and you still get the title on your guy. 

Edited: 4 days ago
11/11/11
Posts: 24629
WrestlingSucks -

Creative control typically has some type of stipulation that it must be within reason. Asking to be champ and expecting a company to trust you'll drop the title the following night even though your contract is up is not reasonable. 

 

I think they should have just had Shamrock take it from him on Raw the week before after DX intereferes, change the match to a triple threat match and have HBK pin Shamrock to take the belt. If Bret thought for one second about shooting, you have Shamrock there to crush him. Bret doesn't have to lose to HBK and you still get the title on your guy. 

Bret still had a month left on his contract. There was still many opportunities to remove the belt from him. So I think the idea of having trust there was completely reasonable. Bret had creative control in his contract specifically to prevent being buried on his way out. Historically and currently thats what vince is notorious for doing.

 

The solution you mentioned is definitely a practical one regarding the triple threat. Vince(probably cause of Shawns influence) was dead set that bret had to lose to Shawn though at survivor series.