Art Vandelay's Pro Wrestling Ground Wrestling's Mount Rushmore?

13 days ago
11/11/11
Posts: 23684

Info on londos. Cornette suggested him for rushmore if I remember correctly.

Take from wwe site itself:

One of the most popular stars on the professional wrestling circuit in the 1930s and 1940s, Londos achieved immense popularity by flaunting his good looks and chiseled physique while targeting the ugliest wrestlers he could find.

Recognized as a national hero in his native Greece, the multiple-time titleholder and bona fide box office draw competed in 32 countries, was renowned for his willingness to wrestle as often as possible, cultivated a passionate fanbase on the East Coast, once battled Ed “Strangler” Lewis to a grueling two-hour draw, attracted a crowd of nearly 100,000 in his native Greece, defeated NFL legend Bronko Nagurski in a thrilling title bout, and was universally feared for his debilitating armbar and excruciating Boston Crab.

Following his retirement from the squared circle in 1953, Londos dedicated the rest of his life to various charitable organizations, including his favorite, Greek War Orphans of World War II. Because of his tireless philanthropic efforts, Londos was honored by United States President Richard Nixon and King Paul of Greece.

 

 

Every other site says he drew over 100k

13 days ago
1/18/03
Posts: 3167

That's why ratings like this get a little hard.  Maybe Londos deserves to be in the top 4, but who do you replace?  The 4 I named are hard to argue against on the list?  Austin who in his prime, Attitude Era, made the most amount of money?  No way are you getting rid of Flair, arguably the greatest of all time.  Sammartino whose Madison Square sellouts I understand have never been touched?  Hogan, arguably the most recognized wrestler of all time?

Edited: 13 days ago
7/13/09
Posts: 15909
TheBearStare -

Info on londos. Cornette suggested him for rushmore if I remember correctly.

Take from wwe site itself:

One of the most popular stars on the professional wrestling circuit in the 1930s and 1940s, Londos achieved immense popularity by flaunting his good looks and chiseled physique while targeting the ugliest wrestlers he could find.

Recognized as a national hero in his native Greece, the multiple-time titleholder and bona fide box office draw competed in 32 countries, was renowned for his willingness to wrestle as often as possible, cultivated a passionate fanbase on the East Coast, once battled Ed “Strangler” Lewis to a grueling two-hour draw, attracted a crowd of nearly 100,000 in his native Greece, defeated NFL legend Bronko Nagurski in a thrilling title bout, and was universally feared for his debilitating armbar and excruciating Boston Crab.

Following his retirement from the squared circle in 1953, Londos dedicated the rest of his life to various charitable organizations, including his favorite, Greek War Orphans of World War II. Because of his tireless philanthropic efforts, Londos was honored by United States President Richard Nixon and King Paul of Greece.

 

 

Every other site says he drew over 100k

There’s an old book Cornette talks about called Fall Guys, the Barnums of Bounce. It’s all about wrestling in the 30s and 40s and Londos is one of the main guys of the entire era. His touring “group” would battle other touring groups ran by people like Toots Mondt and Billy Sandow. Then they’d all backstab each other and join up to backstab other guys then screw each other over some more. One of the groups formed to go against him becomes the NWA.  Good book if you can get through the 1930s writing. No one likes to think about the fact that those guys in the 30s ,40sand 50s did way larger gates than anyone until Hogan but yeah...Undertaker on Rushmore LOL

13 days ago
8/2/05
Posts: 45008

Eddie Guerrero 

The Rock

Hulk Hogan

AJ Styles

12 days ago
8/20/15
Posts: 7307
JJitsu -

LOL at the bitchmade millennial lists on here. Yeah don’t put someone like Gorgeous George or Lou Thesz on there that would actually require critical thinking skills. Let’s go Taker or floppy flop gay Jesus Sean Michaels derp...

How many gorgeous George and Lou thesz programs have you actually watched I'm their entirety? Honestly? I'm not talking shit to you, but come on dude. Yeah those dudes were great, but with anything it evolves and better performers come later on.

12 days ago
8/20/15
Posts: 7308
JJitsu -
TheBearStare -

Info on londos. Cornette suggested him for rushmore if I remember correctly.

Take from wwe site itself:

One of the most popular stars on the professional wrestling circuit in the 1930s and 1940s, Londos achieved immense popularity by flaunting his good looks and chiseled physique while targeting the ugliest wrestlers he could find.

Recognized as a national hero in his native Greece, the multiple-time titleholder and bona fide box office draw competed in 32 countries, was renowned for his willingness to wrestle as often as possible, cultivated a passionate fanbase on the East Coast, once battled Ed “Strangler” Lewis to a grueling two-hour draw, attracted a crowd of nearly 100,000 in his native Greece, defeated NFL legend Bronko Nagurski in a thrilling title bout, and was universally feared for his debilitating armbar and excruciating Boston Crab.

Following his retirement from the squared circle in 1953, Londos dedicated the rest of his life to various charitable organizations, including his favorite, Greek War Orphans of World War II. Because of his tireless philanthropic efforts, Londos was honored by United States President Richard Nixon and King Paul of Greece.

 

 

Every other site says he drew over 100k

There’s an old book Cornette talks about called Fall Guys, the Barnums of Bounce. It’s all about wrestling in the 30s and 40s and Londos is one of the main guys of the entire era. His touring “group” would battle other touring groups ran by people like Toots Mondt and Billy Sandow. Then they’d all backstab each other and join up to backstab other guys then screw each other over some more. One of the groups formed to go against him becomes the NWA.  Good book if you can get through the 1930s writing. No one likes to think about the fact that those guys in the 30s ,40sand 50s did way larger gates than anyone until Hogan but yeah...Undertaker on Rushmore LOL

Nothing wrong with Taker on someone's personal Rushmore. Just because guys were in the old days and Drew doesn't mean they should be there. Maybe some of those guys drew 100k live. Modern guys draw millions due to television. Television and PPV count in the 80s and 90s. Internet counts now.

I respect you, but I think your looking at this in a very narrow and hipster view.

Someone who says Flair, Hogan, Taker and Austin isn't wrong. There are arguments for alot of guys in this sport. None of them are wrong as long as there is some common sense. Taker is synonymous with WWE, which took over wrestling. The streak. Title reigns. Good stories and programs. 

Edited: 12 days ago
7/13/09
Posts: 15920
Robert Thomas -
JJitsu -

LOL at the bitchmade millennial lists on here. Yeah don’t put someone like Gorgeous George or Lou Thesz on there that would actually require critical thinking skills. Let’s go Taker or floppy flop gay Jesus Sean Michaels derp...

How many gorgeous George and Lou thesz programs have you actually watched I'm their entirety? Honestly? I'm not talking shit to you, but come on dude. Yeah those dudes were great, but with anything it evolves and better performers come later on.

I’m a history major. I don’t look at things the same way. Andy Kaufman’s my favorite Heel and yes I have watched a bunch of Lou Thesz and a quite a few Gorgeous George matches. I was interested in them because pro wresting is what got me into High School Wrestling then Catch and the history of the sport.

Jim Londos era is boring but Gorgeous George and Lou Thesz in the 50s are fun to watch. The last guy you will see doing a lot of that stuff was Terry Funk. I geek out at finding shit like an old match of Gary Hart wresting when he’s 20 more than a flippy flop match. I just feel less is more, I like the subtle heel things like sneaking a punch or pulling tights more than a huge flippy bomb move that they’re kicking out of. I don’t think that’s “Better Performance” I think it’s Hack. I’m not full blown old fart Cornette, I do appreciate the Young Bucks and Omega but the lack of selling or seriousness in their “acting” sucks to me and is not better. 
 

So to me Undertaker is Mean Mark Callous who sucked when he replaced Sid Viscious in Sky Skrapers. Was cool no selling everything as Taker and trying to Crucify Steph, was Lame as a Biker then Old and everyone jicked him and called him Legend, Ok I like dude but whatever. I don’t think he takes a spot over a guy like Thesz who did shit all your favorites copy but don’t realize it. 

12 days ago
7/13/09
Posts: 15921
Robert Thomas -
JJitsu -
TheBearStare -

Info on londos. Cornette suggested him for rushmore if I remember correctly.

Take from wwe site itself:

One of the most popular stars on the professional wrestling circuit in the 1930s and 1940s, Londos achieved immense popularity by flaunting his good looks and chiseled physique while targeting the ugliest wrestlers he could find.

Recognized as a national hero in his native Greece, the multiple-time titleholder and bona fide box office draw competed in 32 countries, was renowned for his willingness to wrestle as often as possible, cultivated a passionate fanbase on the East Coast, once battled Ed “Strangler” Lewis to a grueling two-hour draw, attracted a crowd of nearly 100,000 in his native Greece, defeated NFL legend Bronko Nagurski in a thrilling title bout, and was universally feared for his debilitating armbar and excruciating Boston Crab.

Following his retirement from the squared circle in 1953, Londos dedicated the rest of his life to various charitable organizations, including his favorite, Greek War Orphans of World War II. Because of his tireless philanthropic efforts, Londos was honored by United States President Richard Nixon and King Paul of Greece.

 

 

Every other site says he drew over 100k

There’s an old book Cornette talks about called Fall Guys, the Barnums of Bounce. It’s all about wrestling in the 30s and 40s and Londos is one of the main guys of the entire era. His touring “group” would battle other touring groups ran by people like Toots Mondt and Billy Sandow. Then they’d all backstab each other and join up to backstab other guys then screw each other over some more. One of the groups formed to go against him becomes the NWA.  Good book if you can get through the 1930s writing. No one likes to think about the fact that those guys in the 30s ,40sand 50s did way larger gates than anyone until Hogan but yeah...Undertaker on Rushmore LOL

Nothing wrong with Taker on someone's personal Rushmore. Just because guys were in the old days and Drew doesn't mean they should be there. Maybe some of those guys drew 100k live. Modern guys draw millions due to television. Television and PPV count in the 80s and 90s. Internet counts now.

I respect you, but I think your looking at this in a very narrow and hipster view.

Someone who says Flair, Hogan, Taker and Austin isn't wrong. There are arguments for alot of guys in this sport. None of them are wrong as long as there is some common sense. Taker is synonymous with WWE, which took over wrestling. The streak. Title reigns. Good stories and programs. 

#1 As an angry Gen Xer please don’t ever call me a hipster ever again or I will go full shitheel. I was only going a 3rd shitheel when I made the original posts. 
 

#2 Mount Rushmore doesn’t just have a bunch of presidents from when you were alive. It’s not your “personal” favorites. It’s who deserves to be on the All Time list. That includes Hackenschmidt and Farmer Burns or a guy like Jim Londos who made the equivalent of what a modern wrestler makes adjusted for inflation and sold way more tickets. If you look at the house numbers those guys did in the old days it’s more people overall. It’s obviously not as much merch or PPV but Pro Wrestling was next to Boxing and Baseball in popularity at the turn of the 1900s. It was one of the #1 shows on TV in the 50s making guys household names just like Flair and Hogan and Austin later on. 

The Hipster is the guy that doesn’t know any of that and says it’s Eddie Guerrero or Sean Michales completely ignoring history because “it’s old” so they don’t think it’s as good. 

Edited: 12 days ago
11/11/11
Posts: 23695

Yeah when i hear mt rushmore, unless I'm specifying my "personal rushmore", I'm thinking who are the four guys that are the most fundamental to the business and took it to new heights. Thats why you need to include a dude like Bruno or earlier and cant just have 4 dudes after the 80s. Prowrestling has existed for about a century already. It has nothing to do with being a hipster.

 

Unless you are just spouting your personal favorites that's why i dont think there is room for the undertaker either. Unless you once again specify its wwf only or something. Hell using the mindset I described above I think there is a case to be made to leaving flair off it even, despite how legendary he is.

 

Hell for the moment I will propose

el santo, Lou thesz, hogan, Austin

....

Edited: 12 days ago
10/8/13
Posts: 3728
JJitsu -
Robert Thomas -
JJitsu -
TheBearStare -

Info on londos. Cornette suggested him for rushmore if I remember correctly.

Take from wwe site itself:

One of the most popular stars on the professional wrestling circuit in the 1930s and 1940s, Londos achieved immense popularity by flaunting his good looks and chiseled physique while targeting the ugliest wrestlers he could find.

Recognized as a national hero in his native Greece, the multiple-time titleholder and bona fide box office draw competed in 32 countries, was renowned for his willingness to wrestle as often as possible, cultivated a passionate fanbase on the East Coast, once battled Ed “Strangler” Lewis to a grueling two-hour draw, attracted a crowd of nearly 100,000 in his native Greece, defeated NFL legend Bronko Nagurski in a thrilling title bout, and was universally feared for his debilitating armbar and excruciating Boston Crab.

Following his retirement from the squared circle in 1953, Londos dedicated the rest of his life to various charitable organizations, including his favorite, Greek War Orphans of World War II. Because of his tireless philanthropic efforts, Londos was honored by United States President Richard Nixon and King Paul of Greece.

 

 

Every other site says he drew over 100k

There’s an old book Cornette talks about called Fall Guys, the Barnums of Bounce. It’s all about wrestling in the 30s and 40s and Londos is one of the main guys of the entire era. His touring “group” would battle other touring groups ran by people like Toots Mondt and Billy Sandow. Then they’d all backstab each other and join up to backstab other guys then screw each other over some more. One of the groups formed to go against him becomes the NWA.  Good book if you can get through the 1930s writing. No one likes to think about the fact that those guys in the 30s ,40sand 50s did way larger gates than anyone until Hogan but yeah...Undertaker on Rushmore LOL

Nothing wrong with Taker on someone's personal Rushmore. Just because guys were in the old days and Drew doesn't mean they should be there. Maybe some of those guys drew 100k live. Modern guys draw millions due to television. Television and PPV count in the 80s and 90s. Internet counts now.

I respect you, but I think your looking at this in a very narrow and hipster view.

Someone who says Flair, Hogan, Taker and Austin isn't wrong. There are arguments for alot of guys in this sport. None of them are wrong as long as there is some common sense. Taker is synonymous with WWE, which took over wrestling. The streak. Title reigns. Good stories and programs. 

#1 As an angry Gen Xer please don’t ever call me a hipster ever again or I will go full shitheel. I was only going a 3rd shitheel when I made the original posts. 
 

#2 Mount Rushmore doesn’t just have a bunch of presidents from when you were alive. It’s not your “personal” favorites. It’s who deserves to be on the All Time list. That includes Hackenschmidt and Farmer Burns or a guy like Jim Londos who made the equivalent of what a modern wrestler makes adjusted for inflation and sold way more tickets. If you look at the house numbers those guys did in the old days it’s more people overall. It’s obviously not as much merch or PPV but Pro Wrestling was next to Boxing and Baseball in popularity at the turn of the 1900s. It was one of the #1 shows on TV in the 50s making guys household names just like Flair and Hogan and Austin later on. 

The Hipster is the guy that doesn’t know any of that and says it’s Eddie Guerrero or Sean Michales completely ignoring history because “it’s old” so they don’t think it’s as good. 

Taker has been in the WWE for 30 years. He has more of an argument than Austin does. Just because you don't agree doesn't mean it's wrong to have him there. He has the longevity. Austin was huge in the late 90's, Taker was arguably just as big in the early-mid 90's popularity wise.

His longevity is up there with Flair and Sammartino. What makes Sammartino a better pick? Titles decided by the promoter isn't a good answer.

Edited: 11 days ago
2/29/16
Posts: 6352

My personal one is Hogan, Bret, Shawn and Austin.

 

As for an official one?

 

Bruno, Hogan, Austin, Cena.

Edited: 12 days ago
7/13/09
Posts: 15923
MMA Promoter1 -
JJitsu -
Robert Thomas -
JJitsu -
TheBearStare -

Info on londos. Cornette suggested him for rushmore if I remember correctly.

Take from wwe site itself:

One of the most popular stars on the professional wrestling circuit in the 1930s and 1940s, Londos achieved immense popularity by flaunting his good looks and chiseled physique while targeting the ugliest wrestlers he could find.

Recognized as a national hero in his native Greece, the multiple-time titleholder and bona fide box office draw competed in 32 countries, was renowned for his willingness to wrestle as often as possible, cultivated a passionate fanbase on the East Coast, once battled Ed “Strangler” Lewis to a grueling two-hour draw, attracted a crowd of nearly 100,000 in his native Greece, defeated NFL legend Bronko Nagurski in a thrilling title bout, and was universally feared for his debilitating armbar and excruciating Boston Crab.

Following his retirement from the squared circle in 1953, Londos dedicated the rest of his life to various charitable organizations, including his favorite, Greek War Orphans of World War II. Because of his tireless philanthropic efforts, Londos was honored by United States President Richard Nixon and King Paul of Greece.

 

 

Every other site says he drew over 100k

There’s an old book Cornette talks about called Fall Guys, the Barnums of Bounce. It’s all about wrestling in the 30s and 40s and Londos is one of the main guys of the entire era. His touring “group” would battle other touring groups ran by people like Toots Mondt and Billy Sandow. Then they’d all backstab each other and join up to backstab other guys then screw each other over some more. One of the groups formed to go against him becomes the NWA.  Good book if you can get through the 1930s writing. No one likes to think about the fact that those guys in the 30s ,40sand 50s did way larger gates than anyone until Hogan but yeah...Undertaker on Rushmore LOL

Nothing wrong with Taker on someone's personal Rushmore. Just because guys were in the old days and Drew doesn't mean they should be there. Maybe some of those guys drew 100k live. Modern guys draw millions due to television. Television and PPV count in the 80s and 90s. Internet counts now.

I respect you, but I think your looking at this in a very narrow and hipster view.

Someone who says Flair, Hogan, Taker and Austin isn't wrong. There are arguments for alot of guys in this sport. None of them are wrong as long as there is some common sense. Taker is synonymous with WWE, which took over wrestling. The streak. Title reigns. Good stories and programs. 

#1 As an angry Gen Xer please don’t ever call me a hipster ever again or I will go full shitheel. I was only going a 3rd shitheel when I made the original posts. 
 

#2 Mount Rushmore doesn’t just have a bunch of presidents from when you were alive. It’s not your “personal” favorites. It’s who deserves to be on the All Time list. That includes Hackenschmidt and Farmer Burns or a guy like Jim Londos who made the equivalent of what a modern wrestler makes adjusted for inflation and sold way more tickets. If you look at the house numbers those guys did in the old days it’s more people overall. It’s obviously not as much merch or PPV but Pro Wrestling was next to Boxing and Baseball in popularity at the turn of the 1900s. It was one of the #1 shows on TV in the 50s making guys household names just like Flair and Hogan and Austin later on. 

The Hipster is the guy that doesn’t know any of that and says it’s Eddie Guerrero or Sean Michales completely ignoring history because “it’s old” so they don’t think it’s as good. 

Taker has been in the WWE for 30 years. He has more of an argument than Austin does. Just because you don't agree doesn't mean it's wrong to have him there. He has the longevity. Austin was huge in the late 90's, Taker was arguably just as big in the early-mid 90's popularity wise.

His longevity is up there with Flair and Sammartino. What makes Sammartino a better pick? Titles decided by the promoter isn't a good answer.

LOL Taker was never even the main star of the promotion. Taker is the foil to the lead not the lead. He’s Jaws from 007 not 007. 007 was Austin. Austin sold way more tickets than Taker and Taker and Rock would tell you that.  Pro wrestling regardless of if you like the bad guy or not is a classic good vs evil scenario. People are paying money to see either the hero triumph or the heel get his ass kicked. Taker was the monster bad guy people wanted to pay to see the hero beat. He wasn’t like Piper where people wanted to pay to see him get his ass kicked.  So had a niche as a bad guy and was a tweener at best as a good guy. Not the total package and not original since the satan worshiper stuff was done in the 70s with Sullivan. He’s great but not on Rushmore. 


 

12 days ago
7/13/09
Posts: 15924
TheBearStare -

Yeah when i hear mt rushmore, unless I'm specifying my "personal rushmore", I'm thinking who are the four guys that are the most fundamental to the business and took it to new heights. Thats why you need to include a dude like Bruno or earlier and cant just have 4 dudes after the 80s. Prowrestling has existed for about a century already. It has nothing to do with being a hipster.

 

Unless you are just spouting your personal favorites that's why i dont think there is room for the undertaker either. Unless you once again specify its wwf only or something. Hell using the mindset I described above I think there is a case to be made to leaving flair off it even, despite how legendary he is.

 

Hell for the moment I will propose

el santo, Lou thesz, hogan, Austin

....

Exactly someone like El Santo for the contribution to Lucha or like Rikidozan or Inoki for Japanese wrestling that all the hipsters love. 

Edited: 12 days ago
7/13/09
Posts: 15925

Hogan

Austin

Gorgeous George (Ric Flair Buddy Rogers and every other bleach blonde wrestler before Ric Flair or Buddy Rogers or any other bleach blonde wrestlers) 

And then I can’t pick between Thesz, El Santo or Rikidozan...but then Strangler Lewis should be in there too...
 

personal Rushmore would be Piper, Funk, Flair, Heenan

12 days ago
6/22/12
Posts: 932
JJitsu -
Robert Thomas -
JJitsu -
TheBearStare -

Info on londos. Cornette suggested him for rushmore if I remember correctly.

Take from wwe site itself:

One of the most popular stars on the professional wrestling circuit in the 1930s and 1940s, Londos achieved immense popularity by flaunting his good looks and chiseled physique while targeting the ugliest wrestlers he could find.

Recognized as a national hero in his native Greece, the multiple-time titleholder and bona fide box office draw competed in 32 countries, was renowned for his willingness to wrestle as often as possible, cultivated a passionate fanbase on the East Coast, once battled Ed “Strangler” Lewis to a grueling two-hour draw, attracted a crowd of nearly 100,000 in his native Greece, defeated NFL legend Bronko Nagurski in a thrilling title bout, and was universally feared for his debilitating armbar and excruciating Boston Crab.

Following his retirement from the squared circle in 1953, Londos dedicated the rest of his life to various charitable organizations, including his favorite, Greek War Orphans of World War II. Because of his tireless philanthropic efforts, Londos was honored by United States President Richard Nixon and King Paul of Greece.

 

 

Every other site says he drew over 100k

There’s an old book Cornette talks about called Fall Guys, the Barnums of Bounce. It’s all about wrestling in the 30s and 40s and Londos is one of the main guys of the entire era. His touring “group” would battle other touring groups ran by people like Toots Mondt and Billy Sandow. Then they’d all backstab each other and join up to backstab other guys then screw each other over some more. One of the groups formed to go against him becomes the NWA.  Good book if you can get through the 1930s writing. No one likes to think about the fact that those guys in the 30s ,40sand 50s did way larger gates than anyone until Hogan but yeah...Undertaker on Rushmore LOL

Nothing wrong with Taker on someone's personal Rushmore. Just because guys were in the old days and Drew doesn't mean they should be there. Maybe some of those guys drew 100k live. Modern guys draw millions due to television. Television and PPV count in the 80s and 90s. Internet counts now.

I respect you, but I think your looking at this in a very narrow and hipster view.

Someone who says Flair, Hogan, Taker and Austin isn't wrong. There are arguments for alot of guys in this sport. None of them are wrong as long as there is some common sense. Taker is synonymous with WWE, which took over wrestling. The streak. Title reigns. Good stories and programs. 

#1 As an angry Gen Xer please don’t ever call me a hipster ever again or I will go full shitheel. I was only going a 3rd shitheel when I made the original posts. 
 

#2 Mount Rushmore doesn’t just have a bunch of presidents from when you were alive. It’s not your “personal” favorites. It’s who deserves to be on the All Time list. That includes Hackenschmidt and Farmer Burns or a guy like Jim Londos who made the equivalent of what a modern wrestler makes adjusted for inflation and sold way more tickets. If you look at the house numbers those guys did in the old days it’s more people overall. It’s obviously not as much merch or PPV but Pro Wrestling was next to Boxing and Baseball in popularity at the turn of the 1900s. It was one of the #1 shows on TV in the 50s making guys household names just like Flair and Hogan and Austin later on. 

The Hipster is the guy that doesn’t know any of that and says it’s Eddie Guerrero or Sean Michales completely ignoring history because “it’s old” so they don’t think it’s as good. 

The original post clearly states "Personal Mt. Rushmore"

11 days ago
3/2/11
Posts: 46626
JLK -
TheBearStare -
Roy Batty - Couple-three old timey guys who deserve consideration:


Jim Londos - just google him. I ain't got time to go into it!


Ray Stevens - the 1st to do a lot of the modern bumps and spots.


Johnny Valentine - heat and stiffness personified.

Yeah wrestling existed before wwf. One of the four needs to be someone old school like londos or gorgeous George

Between Bruno Sammartino and Gorgious George the arguement can be made that Sammartino was the more popular / had the bigger impact (I believe he sold out Madison Square Garden the most).

 

Ric Flair is arguably the greatest wrestler of all time.  I think Bret Hart said something along the lines of charisma/look/ability.  Ric Flair had all three in spades.

 

Hogan led the rebirth that caused wrestling's explosion into the world wide mainstream.  Had tons of charisma and had the look.  His matches weren't the best.

 

Austin led the attitude era and was the biggest money maker of all of them (this is what I understand).  He also had the trifecta according to Hart's way of looking at wrestlers.  His matches were great prior to his neck injury.

This.

Bruno and Flair are the business

Hogan exploded the business

Austin saved the business


The others are great for their own reason but in terms of over-arching meaning to the history of pro-wrestling these 4 mean more.

11 days ago
7/31/15
Posts: 1005

The Undertaker (most consistent, sustained main event run)

Stone Cold (responsible for bringing the business back to the mainstream/pop culture and to new heights)

Hulk Hogan (responsible for bringing the business to mainstream pop culture and to new heights)

 

I'm torn on my fourth pick between The Rock, Cena and Sammartino.  The Rock opened the door for wrestlers to transcend the business, while Cena has done the same, had a longer run and been the biggest merch seller for years.  Then there's Bruno and while I'm not familiar with a lot of his matches, his long run and popularity in the WWWF helped pave the way for what we see today.

11 days ago
1/8/04
Posts: 13729
Hogan, Austin, and Bruno should be the absolute and completely obvious first 3.

Then you can debate the last guy.
11 days ago
7/31/15
Posts: 1006
ChaosOverkill -
JLK -
TheBearStare -
Roy Batty - Couple-three old timey guys who deserve consideration:


Jim Londos - just google him. I ain't got time to go into it!


Ray Stevens - the 1st to do a lot of the modern bumps and spots.


Johnny Valentine - heat and stiffness personified.

Yeah wrestling existed before wwf. One of the four needs to be someone old school like londos or gorgeous George

Between Bruno Sammartino and Gorgious George the arguement can be made that Sammartino was the more popular / had the bigger impact (I believe he sold out Madison Square Garden the most).

 

Ric Flair is arguably the greatest wrestler of all time.  I think Bret Hart said something along the lines of charisma/look/ability.  Ric Flair had all three in spades.

 

Hogan led the rebirth that caused wrestling's explosion into the world wide mainstream.  Had tons of charisma and had the look.  His matches weren't the best.

 

Austin led the attitude era and was the biggest money maker of all of them (this is what I understand).  He also had the trifecta according to Hart's way of looking at wrestlers.  His matches were great prior to his neck injury.

This.

Bruno and Flair are the business

Hogan exploded the business

Austin saved the business


The others are great for their own reason but in terms of over-arching meaning to the history of pro-wrestling these 4 mean more.

I actually prefer this list to mine.  

11 days ago
9/24/18
Posts: 3007

Arguing that Gorgeous George should be on the Mount Rushmore of wrestling is fucking HILARIOUS 

11 days ago
2/5/05
Posts: 278
No one would put Andre on their Mt. Rushmore?
11 days ago
7/13/09
Posts: 15946
SuperKamiGuru -
JJitsu -
Robert Thomas -
JJitsu -
TheBearStare -

Info on londos. Cornette suggested him for rushmore if I remember correctly.

Take from wwe site itself:

One of the most popular stars on the professional wrestling circuit in the 1930s and 1940s, Londos achieved immense popularity by flaunting his good looks and chiseled physique while targeting the ugliest wrestlers he could find.

Recognized as a national hero in his native Greece, the multiple-time titleholder and bona fide box office draw competed in 32 countries, was renowned for his willingness to wrestle as often as possible, cultivated a passionate fanbase on the East Coast, once battled Ed “Strangler” Lewis to a grueling two-hour draw, attracted a crowd of nearly 100,000 in his native Greece, defeated NFL legend Bronko Nagurski in a thrilling title bout, and was universally feared for his debilitating armbar and excruciating Boston Crab.

Following his retirement from the squared circle in 1953, Londos dedicated the rest of his life to various charitable organizations, including his favorite, Greek War Orphans of World War II. Because of his tireless philanthropic efforts, Londos was honored by United States President Richard Nixon and King Paul of Greece.

 

 

Every other site says he drew over 100k

There’s an old book Cornette talks about called Fall Guys, the Barnums of Bounce. It’s all about wrestling in the 30s and 40s and Londos is one of the main guys of the entire era. His touring “group” would battle other touring groups ran by people like Toots Mondt and Billy Sandow. Then they’d all backstab each other and join up to backstab other guys then screw each other over some more. One of the groups formed to go against him becomes the NWA.  Good book if you can get through the 1930s writing. No one likes to think about the fact that those guys in the 30s ,40sand 50s did way larger gates than anyone until Hogan but yeah...Undertaker on Rushmore LOL

Nothing wrong with Taker on someone's personal Rushmore. Just because guys were in the old days and Drew doesn't mean they should be there. Maybe some of those guys drew 100k live. Modern guys draw millions due to television. Television and PPV count in the 80s and 90s. Internet counts now.

I respect you, but I think your looking at this in a very narrow and hipster view.

Someone who says Flair, Hogan, Taker and Austin isn't wrong. There are arguments for alot of guys in this sport. None of them are wrong as long as there is some common sense. Taker is synonymous with WWE, which took over wrestling. The streak. Title reigns. Good stories and programs. 

#1 As an angry Gen Xer please don’t ever call me a hipster ever again or I will go full shitheel. I was only going a 3rd shitheel when I made the original posts. 
 

#2 Mount Rushmore doesn’t just have a bunch of presidents from when you were alive. It’s not your “personal” favorites. It’s who deserves to be on the All Time list. That includes Hackenschmidt and Farmer Burns or a guy like Jim Londos who made the equivalent of what a modern wrestler makes adjusted for inflation and sold way more tickets. If you look at the house numbers those guys did in the old days it’s more people overall. It’s obviously not as much merch or PPV but Pro Wrestling was next to Boxing and Baseball in popularity at the turn of the 1900s. It was one of the #1 shows on TV in the 50s making guys household names just like Flair and Hogan and Austin later on. 

The Hipster is the guy that doesn’t know any of that and says it’s Eddie Guerrero or Sean Michales completely ignoring history because “it’s old” so they don’t think it’s as good. 

The original post clearly states "Personal Mt. Rushmore"

The thread title clearly states My Rushmore NOT personal.
 

Plus I was being a dick...

11 days ago
6/22/12
Posts: 934
JJitsu -
SuperKamiGuru -
JJitsu -
Robert Thomas -
JJitsu -
TheBearStare -

Info on londos. Cornette suggested him for rushmore if I remember correctly.

Take from wwe site itself:

One of the most popular stars on the professional wrestling circuit in the 1930s and 1940s, Londos achieved immense popularity by flaunting his good looks and chiseled physique while targeting the ugliest wrestlers he could find.

Recognized as a national hero in his native Greece, the multiple-time titleholder and bona fide box office draw competed in 32 countries, was renowned for his willingness to wrestle as often as possible, cultivated a passionate fanbase on the East Coast, once battled Ed “Strangler” Lewis to a grueling two-hour draw, attracted a crowd of nearly 100,000 in his native Greece, defeated NFL legend Bronko Nagurski in a thrilling title bout, and was universally feared for his debilitating armbar and excruciating Boston Crab.

Following his retirement from the squared circle in 1953, Londos dedicated the rest of his life to various charitable organizations, including his favorite, Greek War Orphans of World War II. Because of his tireless philanthropic efforts, Londos was honored by United States President Richard Nixon and King Paul of Greece.

 

 

Every other site says he drew over 100k

There’s an old book Cornette talks about called Fall Guys, the Barnums of Bounce. It’s all about wrestling in the 30s and 40s and Londos is one of the main guys of the entire era. His touring “group” would battle other touring groups ran by people like Toots Mondt and Billy Sandow. Then they’d all backstab each other and join up to backstab other guys then screw each other over some more. One of the groups formed to go against him becomes the NWA.  Good book if you can get through the 1930s writing. No one likes to think about the fact that those guys in the 30s ,40sand 50s did way larger gates than anyone until Hogan but yeah...Undertaker on Rushmore LOL

Nothing wrong with Taker on someone's personal Rushmore. Just because guys were in the old days and Drew doesn't mean they should be there. Maybe some of those guys drew 100k live. Modern guys draw millions due to television. Television and PPV count in the 80s and 90s. Internet counts now.

I respect you, but I think your looking at this in a very narrow and hipster view.

Someone who says Flair, Hogan, Taker and Austin isn't wrong. There are arguments for alot of guys in this sport. None of them are wrong as long as there is some common sense. Taker is synonymous with WWE, which took over wrestling. The streak. Title reigns. Good stories and programs. 

#1 As an angry Gen Xer please don’t ever call me a hipster ever again or I will go full shitheel. I was only going a 3rd shitheel when I made the original posts. 
 

#2 Mount Rushmore doesn’t just have a bunch of presidents from when you were alive. It’s not your “personal” favorites. It’s who deserves to be on the All Time list. That includes Hackenschmidt and Farmer Burns or a guy like Jim Londos who made the equivalent of what a modern wrestler makes adjusted for inflation and sold way more tickets. If you look at the house numbers those guys did in the old days it’s more people overall. It’s obviously not as much merch or PPV but Pro Wrestling was next to Boxing and Baseball in popularity at the turn of the 1900s. It was one of the #1 shows on TV in the 50s making guys household names just like Flair and Hogan and Austin later on. 

The Hipster is the guy that doesn’t know any of that and says it’s Eddie Guerrero or Sean Michales completely ignoring history because “it’s old” so they don’t think it’s as good. 

The original post clearly states "Personal Mt. Rushmore"

The thread title clearly states My Rushmore NOT personal.
 

Plus I was being a dick...

You diick

11 days ago
7/13/09
Posts: 15948
Jones right nostril -

Arguing that Gorgeous George should be on the Mount Rushmore of wrestling is fucking HILARIOUS 

I know right? Tha fuck is the Rock thinking!?  he don’t know nuthin about rasslin as much as Jones right nostril LOL

Edited: 11 days ago
7/13/09
Posts: 15949

At 5 ft 9 in and 215 pounds (little guy who hipsters would love), Wagner was not particularly physically imposing by professional wrestling standards, nor was he an exceptionally gifted athlete, althou( gh he was a gifted amateur wrestler. Nevertheless, he soon developed a reputation as a solid in-ring wrestler. In the late 1930s, he met Elizabeth "Betty" Hanson, whom he would later marry in an in-ring ceremony. When the wedding proved a good drawing card, the couple re-enacted it in arenas across the country enlightening Wagner to the potential entertainment value that was left untapped within the industry. Around this same time, Vanity Fair magazine published a feature article about a professional wrestler named 'Lord' Patrick Lansdowne, who entered the ring accompanied by two valets while wearing a velvet robe and doublet. Wagner was impressed with the bravado of such a character, but he believed that he could take it to a much greater extreme. What he needed was a new professional persona. (Stole his gimmick like Hogan) 

Later, in Portland, Oregon, Betty (George's wife) told Dean Higinbotham, the nephew of Betty's sister, Evangeline "Eva", how Wagner gained the name Gorgeous George. In the early 1940s, George had a wrestling match at the Portland Oregon Armory. As he walked down the aisle to the ring, there were two mature women on his right, two rows back from the ring. One of the women loudly exclaimed, "Oh, isn't he gorgeous." The word "gorgeous" struck George and he immediately felt he had found his new professional persona. He would be "Gorgeous George". As Elsie Hanson, Betty's mother, was a skilled seamstress, George asked her to make him some resplendent capes that would accentuate his new persona. Wagner wore those capes in all his future matches. (Ric Flair Robes!)

Subsequently, Wagner debuted his new "glamour boy" (NATURE BOY)image on a 1941 card in Eugene, Oregon; and he quickly antagonized the fans with his exaggerated effeminate behavior when the ring announcer introduced him as "Gorgeous George". Such showmanship was unheard of at the time; and consequently, arena crowds grew in size as fans turned out to ridicule Wagner (who relished the sudden attention).

 

 

Gorgeous George was soon recruited to Los Angeles by promoter Johnny Doyle. Known as the "Human Orchid", his persona was created in part by growing his hair long, dyeing it platinum blonde, and putting gold-plated bobby pins in it (which he called "Georgie Pins" and distributed to the audience). Furthermore, he transformed his ring entrance into a bona-fide spectacle that would often take up more time than his actual matches. He strolled nobly to the ring to the sounds of "Pomp and Circumstance", followed by his valet and a purple spotlight. Wearing an elegant robe sporting an array of sequins, (Macho Man/Ric Flair etc) Gorgeous George was always escorted down a personal red carpet by his ring valet "Jeffries"(VIRGIL), who would carry a silver mirror while spreading rose petals at his feet. While Wagner removed his robe, Jeffries would spray the ring with disinfectant, ostensibly Chanel No. 5 perfume, which Wagner referred to as "Chanel #10" (The Model Rick Martel) ("Why be half-safe?" he was famous for saying) before he would start wrestling. Moreover, George required that his valets spray the referee's hands before the official was allowed to check him for any illegal objects, which thus prompted his now-famous outcry "Get your filthy hands off me!" Once the match finally began, he would cheat in every way he could. Gorgeous George was the industry's first true cowardly villain, and he would cheat at every opportunity, which infuriated the crowd. His credo was "Win if you can, lose if you must, but always cheat!" This flamboyant image and his showman's ability to work a crowd were so successful in the early days of televisionthat he became the most famous wrestler of his time, drawing furious heel heat wherever he appeared.

It was with the advent of television, however, that Wagner's on-ring character became the biggest drawing card the industry had ever known. With the networks looking for cheap, effective programming to fill its time slots, pro wrestling's glorified action became a genuine hit with the viewing public, as it was the first program of any kind to draw a real profit. Consequently, it was Gorgeous George who brought the sport into the nation's living rooms, as his histrionics and melodramatic behavior made him a larger-than-life figure in American pop-culture. His first television appearance took place on November 11, 1947 (an event that was recently named among the top 100 televised acts of the 20th century by Entertainment Weekly) and he immediately became a national celebrity at the same level of Lucille Balland Bob Hope (who personally donated hundreds of chic robes for George's collection) while changing the course of the industry. No longer was pro-wrestling simply about the in-ring action, but Wagner had created a new sense of theatrics and character performance that had not previously existed. Moreover, in a very real sense, it was Gorgeous George who single-handedly established television as a viable entertainment medium that could potentially reach millions of homes across the country. It is said that George was probably responsible for selling as many television receivers as Milton Berle.

 

 

yeah LOL at that guy being on Mount Rushmore