David Jacobs' BJJGround 25 year old student sexing 16 year old student

Edited: 7/4/19 12:13 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 1904

Oh and WTF is going on with white dog and black dog?  Is it some sort of cultural reference or strange coincidence? 

7/4/19 1:29 PM
8/28/10
Posts: 12205
Hey Beer Man -

Oh and WTF is going on with white dog and black dog?  Is it some sort of cultural reference or strange coincidence? 

They are a couple in love. The picture in white dogs Avatar is their wedding photo

7/4/19 1:30 PM
6/29/10
Posts: 5264

I definitely agree with all the comments saying the age difference is too much. A guy that’s 25 is past college age and I assume he’s gone to college and had the college experience. While a 16 year old is a sophomore / junior in high school which means she’s looking forward to prom, getting her driver’s license, applying to / picking out a college / career. Definitely too much of an age difference at that stage in their lives. If they waited 3 years and he’s 28 while she’s 19, that’s not too bad. 

However, since it is legal in the state and he’s not breaking the law, why do you feel like you’re obligated to “do something” about it? As long as you don’t think it impacts your training in any way, such as the instructor flirting with the girl during class time or giving her a lot of attention during drilling while ignoring others. While I definitely I don’t agree with the situation and what he’s doing, I wouldn’t feel mandated to do something about it or stop training at the gym if all else is going well. 

And at what point is it not your business anymore what happens outside of the gym? What if the instructor was an alcoholic / major stoner on his own time but was always sober during class? Would you want to leave the gym? 

Edited: 7/4/19 1:56 PM
2/9/09
Posts: 9062
TheBulgarianAssassin -

I definitely agree with all the comments saying the age difference is too much. A guy that’s 25 is past college age and I assume he’s gone to college and had the college experience. While a 16 year old is a sophomore / junior in high school which means she’s looking forward to prom, getting her driver’s license, applying to / picking out a college / career. Definitely too much of an age difference at that stage in their lives. If they waited 3 years and he’s 28 while she’s 19, that’s not too bad. 

However, since it is legal in the state and he’s not breaking the law, why do you feel like you’re obligated to “do something” about it? As long as you don’t think it impacts your training in any way, such as the instructor flirting with the girl during class time or giving her a lot of attention during drilling while ignoring others. While I definitely I don’t agree with the situation and what he’s doing, I wouldn’t feel mandated to do something about it or stop training at the gym if all else is going well. 

And at what point is it not your business anymore what happens outside of the gym? What if the instructor was an alcoholic / major stoner on his own time but was always sober during class? Would you want to leave the gym? 

The college thing is a pretty good point 

7/4/19 2:01 PM
7/23/09
Posts: 15701

.

7/4/19 3:39 PM
7/26/12
Posts: 2976
TheBulgarianAssassin -

I definitely agree with all the comments saying the age difference is too much. A guy that’s 25 is past college age and I assume he’s gone to college and had the college experience. While a 16 year old is a sophomore / junior in high school which means she’s looking forward to prom, getting her driver’s license, applying to / picking out a college / career. Definitely too much of an age difference at that stage in their lives. If they waited 3 years and he’s 28 while she’s 19, that’s not too bad. 

However, since it is legal in the state and he’s not breaking the law, why do you feel like you’re obligated to “do something” about it? As long as you don’t think it impacts your training in any way, such as the instructor flirting with the girl during class time or giving her a lot of attention during drilling while ignoring others. While I definitely I don’t agree with the situation and what he’s doing, I wouldn’t feel mandated to do something about it or stop training at the gym if all else is going well. 

And at what point is it not your business anymore what happens outside of the gym? What if the instructor was an alcoholic / major stoner on his own time but was always sober during class? Would you want to leave the gym? 

Well you never know where your own personal line is. I never gave it much thought but apparently my line was not wanting to train with other adults who either have sex with or condone having sex with 16 year olds. 

7/4/19 4:18 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 8539
Principal Andy - 

The key point here is that there is a significant age difference for that point in the girl’s life and the guy was also her instructor. Both within the general teaching ranks and the martial arts world there is a moral code that frowns upon this situation. School owners and instructors should be held to a higher standard.  If one’s personal sensibilities don’t align with these beliefs, then I wouldn’t want you as my instructor, teammate, or my teaching my kid. If you don’t care about such things, then that’s your choice. I respect OP for living his life by a code. Respect.


AMEN!

Two lines have been crossed in my opinion.... ethical lines...

The first line is a social barrier. I personally don't think someone in their mid to late 20s should seek out teenagers to date or hook up with. There are sick social reason why a college age person would rather date a sophomore/junior in high school instead of someone his or her own age. There is something wrong with this picture.

The second line is a professional barrier. A Bjj instructor should NOT date his or her students. Doctors don't date their patients. Psychiatrist don't date their patients. Lawyers don't date their clients. Bjj instructors shouldn't date their students.
7/4/19 6:37 PM
1/1/06
Posts: 3783

The age of consent in the UK is 16 but there is a law preventing anyone in a position of authority or power from having a sexual relationship with someone they are teaching who is under the age is 18.  Pretty sure this would be illegal in the UK.

7/4/19 7:12 PM
2/28/03
Posts: 47605

Instructor is a scumbag.   She can’t live on her own, buy cigarettes, vote, or buy a playboy, but somehow it’s okay for an adult to hang her? Nah 

 

if it was like 19 and 16 then that would be better    This age gap is just predatory. 

7/4/19 7:31 PM
2/7/08
Posts: 6438
Do her parents know? BJJ is expensive, I doubt she's the one paying. I'm sure her folks are thrilled their monthly dues helps to get their daughter laid.
7/5/19 12:21 AM
7/2/17
Posts: 85

Still considered a youth, she's not even a white belt. Situation doesn't sit well with me aswell, maybe because of the idea of someone older is taking advantage of someone younger and less knowledgable.. but at 25 your still kind of a kid yourself. It's a bit weird, but not the definition of creepy.

7/5/19 4:02 AM
10/27/03
Posts: 23889

What happened to the jits lifestyle, guys?

The good old days where you’d tattoo your gym logo and owners name on yourself and turn a blind eye to shady behaviour?

How do you ever expect to perfect your arms crossed, samurai stares?

Bunch of creonte’s.

7/5/19 9:36 AM
2/1/08
Posts: 1606

relationship sounds weird.  but there is a long list of things that seem more worthy of one's outrage, especially if you don't even know either of the people involved at any kind of personal level.  is that the only reason you left the gym?  and how much does one need to monitor an instructor's moral choices off the mat in order to learn to strangle people from him?  if your instructor cheated on his wife, would you leave?  on his taxes?  what if his political views are 180 degrees from yours?  where does one draw the line? 

Edited: 7/5/19 9:49 AM
7/30/03
Posts: 7132
m.g -
Principal Andy - 

The key point here is that there is a significant age difference for that point in the girl’s life and the guy was also her instructor. Both within the general teaching ranks and the martial arts world there is a moral code that frowns upon this situation. School owners and instructors should be held to a higher standard.  If one’s personal sensibilities don’t align with these beliefs, then I wouldn’t want you as my instructor, teammate, or my teaching my kid. If you don’t care about such things, then that’s your choice. I respect OP for living his life by a code. Respect.


AMEN!

Two lines have been crossed in my opinion.... ethical lines...

The first line is a social barrier. I personally don't think someone in their mid to late 20s should seek out teenagers to date or hook up with. There are sick social reason why a college age person would rather date a sophomore/junior in high school instead of someone his or her own age. There is something wrong with this picture.

The second line is a professional barrier. A Bjj instructor should NOT date his or her students. Doctors don't date their patients. Psychiatrist don't date their patients. Lawyers don't date their clients. Bjj instructors shouldn't date their students.

The regulators are stupid imo. They have no good reason imo to stop a consensual relationship between a patient and a doctor.

7/5/19 10:13 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 8652
Calhoon -
m.g -
Principal Andy - 

The key point here is that there is a significant age difference for that point in the girl’s life and the guy was also her instructor. Both within the general teaching ranks and the martial arts world there is a moral code that frowns upon this situation. School owners and instructors should be held to a higher standard.  If one’s personal sensibilities don’t align with these beliefs, then I wouldn’t want you as my instructor, teammate, or my teaching my kid. If you don’t care about such things, then that’s your choice. I respect OP for living his life by a code. Respect.


AMEN!

Two lines have been crossed in my opinion.... ethical lines...

The first line is a social barrier. I personally don't think someone in their mid to late 20s should seek out teenagers to date or hook up with. There are sick social reason why a college age person would rather date a sophomore/junior in high school instead of someone his or her own age. There is something wrong with this picture.

The second line is a professional barrier. A Bjj instructor should NOT date his or her students. Doctors don't date their patients. Psychiatrist don't date their patients. Lawyers don't date their clients. Bjj instructors shouldn't date their students.

The regulators are stupid imo. They have no good reason imo to stop a consensual relationship between a patient and a doctor.

No good reason? The power imbalance is what they have determined to be a good enough reason. If they really want to date, the doctor would simply just have to stop treating their romantic partner and refer them elsewhere.

“There is no such thing as a consensual sexual relationship between a doctor and a patient,” says Dr. Carol Leet, former president of the College of Physicians and Surgeons of Ontario. “There is a power imbalance that makes it impossible for a patient to actually be consenting to having that relationship.”

7/5/19 11:04 AM
2/1/08
Posts: 1607

The issue with medical doctors and psychiatrists is that they have the ability to prescribe powerful drugs to their patients and a  conflict of interest there could conceivably be dangerous.   A jitsu instructor is not in the same class as that.  I'm not sure why dating a jiu jitsu instructor would be any more questionable than dating your piano teacher, electrician, or somebody you buy insurance from.  

7/5/19 11:23 AM
8/28/10
Posts: 12212
misterw -

The issue with medical doctors and psychiatrists is that they have the ability to prescribe powerful drugs to their patients and a  conflict of interest there could conceivably be dangerous.   A jitsu instructor is not in the same class as that.  I'm not sure why dating a jiu jitsu instructor would be any more questionable than dating your piano teacher, electrician, or somebody you buy insurance from.  

Like hell a bjj instructor isn't on the same level or in the same class as a physician or physiatrist. 

Actually you're right, they are so much more thank that. They are also spiritual advisors, role models, Lords, Gods, and Kings.

You're actually extremely lucky to date an instructor. I've been trying to bang one of my instructors for years.  Haven't gotten the chance yet but my wife has! I look at it as I'm extremely blessed that my kids look like my instructor! That's how I know I'm at the right gym. It's like a Divine sign from the heavens

7/5/19 12:45 PM
2/1/08
Posts: 1608
Sometimes my wife lets me porrada -
misterw -

The issue with medical doctors and psychiatrists is that they have the ability to prescribe powerful drugs to their patients and a  conflict of interest there could conceivably be dangerous.   A jitsu instructor is not in the same class as that.  I'm not sure why dating a jiu jitsu instructor would be any more questionable than dating your piano teacher, electrician, or somebody you buy insurance from.  

Like hell a bjj instructor isn't on the same level or in the same class as a physician or physiatrist. 

Actually you're right, they are so much more thank that. They are also spiritual advisors, role models, Lords, Gods, and Kings.

You're actually extremely lucky to date an instructor. I've been trying to bang one of my instructors for years.  Haven't gotten the chance yet but my wife has! I look at it as I'm extremely blessed that my kids look like my instructor! That's how I know I'm at the right gym. It's like a Divine sign from the heavens

haha what are you saying?

7/5/19 12:51 PM
7/30/03
Posts: 7134
UltraViolentRay -
Calhoon -
m.g -
Principal Andy - 

The key point here is that there is a significant age difference for that point in the girl’s life and the guy was also her instructor. Both within the general teaching ranks and the martial arts world there is a moral code that frowns upon this situation. School owners and instructors should be held to a higher standard.  If one’s personal sensibilities don’t align with these beliefs, then I wouldn’t want you as my instructor, teammate, or my teaching my kid. If you don’t care about such things, then that’s your choice. I respect OP for living his life by a code. Respect.


AMEN!

Two lines have been crossed in my opinion.... ethical lines...

The first line is a social barrier. I personally don't think someone in their mid to late 20s should seek out teenagers to date or hook up with. There are sick social reason why a college age person would rather date a sophomore/junior in high school instead of someone his or her own age. There is something wrong with this picture.

The second line is a professional barrier. A Bjj instructor should NOT date his or her students. Doctors don't date their patients. Psychiatrist don't date their patients. Lawyers don't date their clients. Bjj instructors shouldn't date their students.

The regulators are stupid imo. They have no good reason imo to stop a consensual relationship between a patient and a doctor.

No good reason? The power imbalance is what they have determined to be a good enough reason. If they really want to date, the doctor would simply just have to stop treating their romantic partner and refer them elsewhere.

“There is no such thing as a consensual sexual relationship between a doctor and a patient,” says Dr. Carol Leet, former president of the College of Physicians and Surgeons of Ontario. “There is a power imbalance that makes it impossible for a patient to actually be consenting to having that relationship.”

There is a power imbalance in every relationship and the "power" a doctor has does not force a girl into a relationship that she is not willing to have. Thats just bullshit that the regulators want you to believ so hey theirself can have more power.

7/6/19 3:30 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 8540
misterw - 

relationship sounds weird.  but there is a long list of things that seem more worthy of one's outrage, especially if you don't even know either of the people involved at any kind of personal level.  is that the only reason you left the gym?  and how much does one need to monitor an instructor's moral choices off the mat in order to learn to strangle people from him?  if your instructor cheated on his wife, would you leave?  on his taxes?  what if his political views are 180 degrees from yours?  where does one draw the line? 


A person who cheats on their spouse or taxes has questionable morals and ethics. If he or she is willing to cheat on their spouse or taxes what about you? Can you really trust such a person?

No... I wouldn't associate or do any business with someone who is a liar, cheater, thief...
7/6/19 5:13 PM
10/28/08
Posts: 1943
m.g -
misterw - 

relationship sounds weird.  but there is a long list of things that seem more worthy of one's outrage, especially if you don't even know either of the people involved at any kind of personal level.  is that the only reason you left the gym?  and how much does one need to monitor an instructor's moral choices off the mat in order to learn to strangle people from him?  if your instructor cheated on his wife, would you leave?  on his taxes?  what if his political views are 180 degrees from yours?  where does one draw the line? 


A person who cheats on their spouse or taxes has questionable morals and ethics. If he or she is willing to cheat on their spouse or taxes what about you? Can you really trust such a person?

No... I wouldn't associate or do any business with someone who is a liar, cheater, thief...

Taxation is theft.  I can’t expect you to be honest with your abuser.

 

Your, spouse, on the other hand is your sacred partner.  If you can’t trust your spouse, who can you trust?  But sometimes your spouse is your abuser.  It’s pretty difficult for any of us to understand relationships we aren’t involved in.

 

Most every day dealings don’t require that kind of trust and faithfulness, and somebody who is a rule follower isn’t nessisarly more faithful to me than somebody who isn’t.

 

That said, it would be pretty difficult for me to have a BJJ mentor that I couldn’t respect in all areas of their life.

7/6/19 5:28 PM
6/30/07
Posts: 55101
Sometimes my wife lets me porrada -
Hey Beer Man -

Oh and WTF is going on with white dog and black dog?  Is it some sort of cultural reference or strange coincidence? 

They are a couple in love. The picture in white dogs Avatar is their wedding photo

He's a Savage in the kitchen and a lady in the bedroom!

7/6/19 5:29 PM
6/30/07
Posts: 55102
Hey Beer Man -
I'm the Black Dog -
I'm the White Dog -
m.g -
I'm the White Dog - 

Age of consent in your state is 16 so that's that.

If you know the instructor to be a bad apple who preys on young girls, you leave that gym in a heartbeat if the owner is aware and okay with that crap.

If this 25 year old is a solid guy and just happened to hit it off with a younger girl who he can legally date in his state you are the one with the problem for being upset over this.

When I was in my mid to late 20's (25-28) I was a personal trainer at a gym in a state where 16 was the age of consent. The 16-18 high school girl crowd was constantly coming on to the trainers at my gym and so I saw both sides of this. The girls are down and legal, so check your jealously at the door. The question is whether the older guys are causing problems for the company. It was rarely a problem because when given the choice between a college age girl who can stay the night/you can stay the night with and a girl who has to go home to mommy and daddy by 10pm and can't have boys sleeping in her room with her, you choose the girl that comes with fewer burdens. But that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with dating a girl who is legal.

If the girl is legal then it really is case specific and all you've told of this story is that you're bothered by it so there's really no way to answer your question.

By the tone of your post you seem overly invested in white knighting for this 16 year old who is willing and able to consent to sex with an older guy. If it bothers you leave, but you might be giving up on your gym of 9 years because of an issue you have, not the other parties. If you've been there 9 years and loved it you would have seen other scummy behavior that would have soured you toward the gym by now.

Might want to assess your reaction and see if that isn't the real problem.


GROSS GROSS GROSS GROSS...

I'm sorry but a person in their mid twenties should NOT be trying to hook up with teenagers.

What the f*ck is wrong with you that you would have to date someone so young!? That's the question you should be asking!

1chaino,

Your reaction and actions are just and right!

When both parties are legal and consensting I don't get my undies in a bunch... like you just did.

9 years is a massive gap Gap at that age, it's not the same as even 26 & 35.

 

"Regardless of the laws of the age of consent, that is deeply distrurbing"

 

There is something fundamentally unhealthy about it.

You are a minor until you reach the age of majority.  In this country, that age is 18. What’s right and what is legal are two different things in this case. 9 years is a long time to be invested in a school. You may disagree with the OP but he is a man of principle 

And I'm on OPs side here, lol. Not sure how you read it any other way.

Edited: 7/6/19 6:57 PM
4/27/18
Posts: 1113
I'm the White Dog -

Age of consent in your state is 16 so that's that.

If you know the instructor to be a bad apple who preys on young girls, you leave that gym in a heartbeat if the owner is aware and okay with that crap.

If this 25 year old is a solid guy and just happened to hit it off with a younger girl who he can legally date in his state you are the one with the problem for being upset over this.

When I was in my mid to late 20's (25-28) I was a personal trainer at a gym in a state where 16 was the age of consent. The 16-18 high school girl crowd was constantly coming on to the trainers at my gym and so I saw both sides of this. The girls are down and legal, so check your jealously at the door. The question is whether the older guys are causing problems for the company. It was rarely a problem because when given the choice between a college age girl who can stay the night/you can stay the night with and a girl who has to go home to mommy and daddy by 10pm and can't have boys sleeping in her room with her, you choose the girl that comes with fewer burdens. But that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with dating a girl who is legal.

If the girl is legal then it really is case specific and all you've told of this story is that you're bothered by it so there's really no way to answer your question.

By the tone of your post you seem overly invested in white knighting for this 16 year old who is willing and able to consent to sex with an older guy. If it bothers you leave, but you might be giving up on your gym of 9 years because of an issue you have, not the other parties. If you've been there 9 years and loved it you would have seen other scummy behavior that would have soured you toward the gym by now.

Might want to assess your reaction and see if that isn't the real problem.

 

7/7/19 12:10 AM
2/28/03
Posts: 47609

 Dudes fighting tooth and nail to justify banging  a 16-year-old. Gotta love this place