26 days ago
12/23/13
Posts: 1290

Question for the gym owners. I’m trying to gauge what everyone is getting in return for paying affiliate fees? Everyone I know receives a generic syllabus, the rights to use the affiliations logos and patches for marketing and that’s pretty much it in return for between 15-25% on average of their earnings

 

wondering if there’s someone out there who actually offers something more worthwhile such as assistance with leads, marketing etc besides Gracie Barra

26 days ago
6/4/02
Posts: 19046

Three words, 1 voice!

Shen

do

kan

26 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 3406
The Shendokan offers these additional benefits:

Discounts on party supplies (for when you throw Shendokan themed birthday parties and sleepovers).
Shendokan branded wallets for your credit cards and Blockbuster membership card.
A 20 page glossy booklet where GM Shen extoles the benefits of crystals.
26 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 35676
Well, you get what you pay for.

That's why I take pride in offering the HIGHEST affiliation fees in the world.
25 days ago
6/4/02
Posts: 19048

To be honest though, you don’t need one aside for ability to promote.  That said, if there are affiliations that provide the legwork and structure to succeed then by all means. 
 

Ive always liked the ribeiro bros.  Not sure what an affiliation means with them but I dig their style and what they espouse.  

16 days ago
12/25/05
Posts: 2775
Im curious as to what associations like Barra, Alliance, Atos, and Checkmat charge. If anyone cares to share some info I would appreciate it.
16 days ago
6/27/18
Posts: 4845
Mike Wazowski -

To be honest though, you don’t need one aside for ability to promote.  That said, if there are affiliations that provide the legwork and structure to succeed then by all means. 
 

Ive always liked the ribeiro bros.  Not sure what an affiliation means with them but I dig their style and what they espouse.  

Might want to rethink the Ribeiro brothers. They had a major exodus of their affiliates a few years ago, including Chris Blanke - literally the guy who brought the brothers to the U.S. from Brazil. He's the uke in all of Saulo's Jiu-Jitsu Revolution videos.

I don't know exactly what went down, but it's never a good sign when your oldest affiliates just jump ship like that. Typically a money thing.

14 days ago
6/30/07
Posts: 57507
MrBlonde - Im curious as to what associations like Barra, Alliance, Atos, and Checkmat charge. If anyone cares to share some info I would appreciate it.

When I hear checkmat I think Matt Barvo.

 

 

And then I stop thinking about checkmat.

14 days ago
2/15/14
Posts: 768
TequilaYuen -
Mike Wazowski -

To be honest though, you don’t need one aside for ability to promote.  That said, if there are affiliations that provide the legwork and structure to succeed then by all means. 
 

Ive always liked the ribeiro bros.  Not sure what an affiliation means with them but I dig their style and what they espouse.  

Might want to rethink the Ribeiro brothers. They had a major exodus of their affiliates a few years ago, including Chris Blanke - literally the guy who brought the brothers to the U.S. from Brazil. He's the uke in all of Saulo's Jiu-Jitsu Revolution videos.

I don't know exactly what went down, but it's never a good sign when your oldest affiliates just jump ship like that. Typically a money thing.

maybe we can ask checkuroil, his school is a Ribeiro affiliate

14 days ago
6/27/18
Posts: 4986
mideastgrappler -
TequilaYuen -
Mike Wazowski -

To be honest though, you don’t need one aside for ability to promote.  That said, if there are affiliations that provide the legwork and structure to succeed then by all means. 
 

Ive always liked the ribeiro bros.  Not sure what an affiliation means with them but I dig their style and what they espouse.  

Might want to rethink the Ribeiro brothers. They had a major exodus of their affiliates a few years ago, including Chris Blanke - literally the guy who brought the brothers to the U.S. from Brazil. He's the uke in all of Saulo's Jiu-Jitsu Revolution videos.

I don't know exactly what went down, but it's never a good sign when your oldest affiliates just jump ship like that. Typically a money thing.

maybe we can ask checkuroil, his school is a Ribeiro affiliate

I thought checkuroil was Gracie Barra.

14 days ago
6/28/11
Posts: 848

GF team is$500 for the year. You get access to other affiliates as well.  And access to team camp in preparation for the bigger tournaments.  

Edited: 14 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 35789
I don't want to pick on Checkmat because a lot of the big teams are similar, though I have a couple personal stories of nonsense involving that team's affiliations.

Big teams tend to have the "elite guys" --which is the real team-- who they use as a selling point to get regular schulbs to become affiliates. But the affiliates are cash cows. No one pays very much attention to them as long as they keep buying the merchandise and paying for mandatory seminars. I have seen people I personally know get promoted to high belts simply because they already owned a school. It's commonplace.

The big teams --from what I have seen-- are pretty similar. They are, first and foremost, trying to sell affiliations to as many people as possible. That's the real business they are in. not in the teaching BJJ business.

And most gym owners are 100% fine with that. They just want the logo & patch to feel legit.

My guess is the majority of people who do BJJ are affiliated with exactly such a team. So it's hard to be honest about it in the BJJ community without pissing off a lot of people.

As my grandma was fond of saying, "It's a racket." It really is. But a LOT of the martial arts world, good, bad or otherwise is exactly the same.
13 days ago
2/15/14
Posts: 769
shen - I don't want to pick on Checkmat because a lot of the big teams are similar, though I have a couple personal stories of nonsense involving that team's affiliations.

Big teams tend to have the "elite guys" --which is the real team-- who they use as a selling point to get regular schulbs to become affiliates. But the affiliates are cash cows. No one pays very much attention to them as long as they keep buying the merchandise and paying for mandatory seminars. I have seen people I personally know get promoted to high belts simply because they already owned a school. It's commonplace.

The big teams --from what I have seen-- are pretty similar. They are, first and foremost, trying to sell affiliations to as many people as possible. That's the real business they are in. not in the teaching BJJ business.

And most gym owners are 100% fine with that. They just want the logo & patch to feel legit.

My guess is the majority of people who do BJJ are affiliated with exactly such a team. So it's hard to be honest about it in the BJJ community without pissing off a lot of people.

As my grandma was fond of saying, "It's a racket." It really is. But a LOT of the martial arts world, good, bad or otherwise is exactly the same.

at what point are you free from paying affiliation fees? obviously if you are a big name like Buchecha you don't need to pay, but how far removed from the original owners are you that you are exempt from these fees?

 

For instance, Leo Vieira and Lucas Leite are Checkmat heads. If you are a direct average joe black belt from them from white-black belt, and open a school later on your own, do you pay the same fee as "Average Joe" black belt from across the country that want to affiliate with Checkmat and got their BB from someone else? WHat if you are a direct black belt from them but you aren't average, but also not elite level either? A mid level competitior directly from the source, are you still exempt and considered part of the "real team?"

 

what kind of f**kery have you seen? please share, but leave out names of course, this is getting interesting

Edited: 13 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 35797
We had a student who wanted his purple, but didn’t train enough and just wasn’t close, but owned A school. He affiliated with them and was hosting seminars right and got promoted, right away. It had nothing to do with knowledge and everything to do with he had a ton of people to bring to seminars, buy gis, rash guards & other merch. Nothing unique in the BJJ world. He had affiliated with three different teams, including us, as a blue belt until he found the one that would promote him.
Edited: 13 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 35798
Interestingly, the smaller teams all wanted to hold him to a reasonable standard. I personally know the instructor of the team he went to immediately after us. Apparently he only came to a few classes in several months, then canceled his affiliation with them.

I think that the elite teams seem the most likely to be this way. I think it's because they see regular affiliates as cash flow generators, not as their “real” students. Their "real" students are the elite team members that they put all their energy into.

Back in the day, there were a stories of under-qualified people at GB, getting promotions & affiliation quickly if they owned a school. I had an experience with GFT as well. One of the Machado Brothers asked me to be an affiliate of his without ever meeting me. He just heard I had a class and asked me to affiliate, even thought I am still with may same teacher for 20-something years.

We get a LOT of BB visitors from all over. They tell me stories about this or that team they are, or were, affiliated with. People tend to really open up after class. They tell you what a scumbag this guy is, who is selling belts, etc. After a while you can't help but develop some impressions.
13 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 3341

Side question: does Judo (or any other martial art) have affiliations the way BJJ does?

13 days ago
6/27/18
Posts: 4994
The Diet Butcher -

Side question: does Judo (or any other martial art) have affiliations the way BJJ does?

Judo, no, not generally. Judo is a very organized sport, every country has a national governing body that is non-profit and that every regional body belongs to in order to be legit. These national bodies in turn answer to the IJF, the international judo federation, which coordinates judo in the Olympics.

In the US, USA Judo is the only association that matters. There are a couple other associations and federations, but USA Judo is the only one authorized by the US Olympic committee and recognized by the IJF. In fact USA Judo has pulled rank on other groups who have tried to compete without them.

There is no money in judo like there is in a BJJ and MMA. No one really runs a judo club like a business. Non-profit is the standard

13 days ago
6/27/18
Posts: 4995

When it comes to other martial arts, karate is the one that has for-profit affiliations most like BJJ, and it is a HUGE RACKET.

13 days ago
3/15/15
Posts: 12530
BJJ affiliations are generally designed for brand recognition and seemingly legitimacy. I know of a club that is on its 4th affiliation. Does the instructor change his teachings to the new style? No, of course not. Probably sees the affilate head/instructor a couple times a year.
Students walk around with cool looking patches and feel part of something bigger than themselves.
The worst I find are GB affiliates - such attitude because they have the logo on their jackets yet no nothing about the organization or its history. Carlson Gracie affiliates can also be doucheniozzle meatheads. Some walk around with the double dog logo as if they trained personally with Senior and would die for his name. But in reality, they only vaguely know of him, and like the the look of the logo.

This is certainly not all gyms, but face it, affiliations are about making money for all involved.

Over the years, I have seen a few small ones that seem less about big $$ and where the club instructor is actually training 4-5 times/yr. with the head instructor and maintaining communications on techniques, etc. This is rare now.

Shen's post on this was most accurate.
13 days ago
12/1/00
Posts: 17147
^ yeah, a usual sign that a teacher/owner is wack is how many affiliations they have been under.
13 days ago
12/25/05
Posts: 2786
Mountain Medic - 
MrBlonde - Im curious as to what associations like Barra, Alliance, Atos, and Checkmat charge. If anyone cares to share some info I would appreciate it.

When I hear checkmat I think Matt Barvo.

 

 

And then I stop thinking about checkmat.


Damn, I havent heard that name in a while. Lol
12 days ago
8/17/08
Posts: 1121

a machado affiliate opened near me, i saw the ad on social media and was stoked there was another school closer to my house than my home gym, maybe hit up open mat during the week or something.  go there to find out the guy is a bb in tkd and a white belt in bjj.  got his blue a few months later from what im sure was very intenstive video watching marathon.

12 days ago
6/28/11
Posts: 849

Affiliations are weird. Teams leave over money and sometimes its shit communication

  Soul fighters is going under because the academies dont want to pay the exorbitant prices to stay in. So big tank and tanquino will be the only academies while he folds the rest of the team. 

Demian maia is losing affiliates. Because while prof demian is focusing on mma he has 2 people running the association who only really ever tell him the positive news so he has no idea that affiliates are leaving because they can't ever get any word from demian when the encounter some kind of problem. So when he finally does retire from mma and focuses on his schools, hes going to "step into a pile of shit" 

 

12 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 18753
mideastgrappler - 
shen - I don't want to pick on Checkmat because a lot of the big teams are similar, though I have a couple personal stories of nonsense involving that team's affiliations.

Big teams tend to have the "elite guys" --which is the real team-- who they use as a selling point to get regular schulbs to become affiliates. But the affiliates are cash cows. No one pays very much attention to them as long as they keep buying the merchandise and paying for mandatory seminars. I have seen people I personally know get promoted to high belts simply because they already owned a school. It's commonplace.

The big teams --from what I have seen-- are pretty similar. They are, first and foremost, trying to sell affiliations to as many people as possible. That's the real business they are in. not in the teaching BJJ business.

And most gym owners are 100% fine with that. They just want the logo & patch to feel legit.

My guess is the majority of people who do BJJ are affiliated with exactly such a team. So it's hard to be honest about it in the BJJ community without pissing off a lot of people.

As my grandma was fond of saying, "It's a racket." It really is. But a LOT of the martial arts world, good, bad or otherwise is exactly the same.

at what point are you free from paying affiliation fees? obviously if you are a big name like Buchecha you don't need to pay, but how far removed from the original owners are you that you are exempt from these fees?

 

For instance, Leo Vieira and Lucas Leite are Checkmat heads. If you are a direct average joe black belt from them from white-black belt, and open a school later on your own, do you pay the same fee as "Average Joe" black belt from across the country that want to affiliate with Checkmat and got their BB from someone else? WHat if you are a direct black belt from them but you aren't average, but also not elite level either? A mid level competitior directly from the source, are you still exempt and considered part of the "real team?"

 

what kind of f**kery have you seen? please share, but leave out names of course, this is getting interesting


I can't say for the larger affiliations, but fees certainly vary with smaller affiliations.  Guys who started from the beginning usually pay the old fees and if forced to pay the new fees due to new policies, get pissed and drama begins.  Seen that many times.

12 days ago
9/20/19
Posts: 804
rebelyell -

Affiliations are weird. Teams leave over money and sometimes its shit communication

  Soul fighters is going under because the academies dont want to pay the exorbitant prices to stay in. So big tank and tanquino will be the only academies while he folds the rest of the team. 

Demian maia is losing affiliates. Because while prof demian is focusing on mma he has 2 people running the association who only really ever tell him the positive news so he has no idea that affiliates are leaving because they can't ever get any word from demian when the encounter some kind of problem. So when he finally does retire from mma and focuses on his schools, hes going to "step into a pile of shit" 

 

How can that be when his star student mark turner is traveling all over the world looking for empty brackets to win gold?