David Jacobs' BJJGround Any good standing rear naked choke defenses?

Edited: 11/12/19 5:20 PM
12/21/04
Posts: 2057
And not the kind where you flip your attacker over you or turn into your attacker so you can sweep or scoop the legs. I'm talking about a good defense when the choke is fully locked on and you are being pulled backward. The kind where your head is locked so tight you can't turn your body that much. Last night I experimented escaping just that type of choke. I asked my partner to lock on a tight rear naked and try and put me to sleep. The first time I had to tap after defending for about 15-20 seconds while the second time I escaped after 15-20 seconds but not before I came close to tapping. It's a defense you rarely see practiced with 100 percent resistance but one that is so important for self defense because it could mean life or death in a matter of seconds.
11/12/19 5:24 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 559

 

11/12/19 5:25 PM
2/8/11
Posts: 713

Funny you mention that. I just yesterday ran into shen's RNC standup defense and really like it:

 

 

11/12/19 5:31 PM
12/21/04
Posts: 2058
SpeedKing9 - 

 


Awesome stuff from Grandmaster Shen!! What happens though if your head is locked so tight you can't turn your body much. Maybe I'm overthinking things and turning in will always be an option.
11/12/19 7:14 PM
10/23/12
Posts: 33

Street option being demo’d on Glover Teixiera and Rafael Formiga. 
 

https://youtu.be/rSjbE11itpY

11/12/19 8:49 PM
8/20/16
Posts: 552

I just saw Luis Heredia demonstrating an escape from a choke while you're being dragged backwards. It's on one of the Pedro Sauer Utah camp DVDs.

11/12/19 8:54 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 11534

did you try screaming rape

11/12/19 9:05 PM
1/13/06
Posts: 7569

if they put it on properly you're probably fucked

11/12/19 10:55 PM
6/30/12
Posts: 385

Whatever you do don't use the same defense Epstein did

11/12/19 11:19 PM
2/27/08
Posts: 1727
nogidavid -

if they put it on properly you're probably fucked

lol true

11/13/19 12:28 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 35638
Aaron Lapointe -
SpeedKing9 - 

 


Awesome stuff from Grandmaster Shen!! What happens though if your head is locked so tight you can't turn your body much. Maybe I'm overthinking things and turning in will always be an option.

Since your shoulders move independent of your neck, just so  long as your right shoulder  [in this case] doesn't get hung up on the assailant's [right] peck, you can move. That's why "the guy in the video" says YOU have to make that space.

 

For me, this is my favorite escape from this situation.

Of course, there's also the classic Flying Mare / Ippon Seoi Nage type escape too, but that's obviously kinda hard if the person is dragging you backwards.

 

11/13/19 11:24 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 18720
Edited: 11/13/19 1:05 PM
12/21/04
Posts: 2060
shen - 
Aaron Lapointe -
SpeedKing9 - 

 


Awesome stuff from Grandmaster Shen!! What happens though if your head is locked so tight you can't turn your body much. Maybe I'm overthinking things and turning in will always be an option.

Since your shoulders move independent of your neck, just so  long as your right shoulder  [in this case] doesn't get hung up on the assailant's [right] peck, you can move. That's why "the guy in the video" says YOU have to make that space.

 

For me, this is my favorite escape from this situation.

Of course, there's also the classic Flying Mare / Ippon Seoi Nage type escape too, but that's obviously kinda hard if the person is dragging you backwards.

 


Thanks. I guess I have to be more mindful of my shoulder to help me turn if I feel stuck. I purposely tried to escape without turning in from standing to see if anything else worked, although I agree that turning in is the best option. What I ended up doing was dropping kind of sideways to one knee and then the other so my attacker was more loaded on my back. I then turned sideways like you would for a seoi so my attacker rolled off my back sideways to the ground. He still had the choke locked tight, but without hooks in. I then moved around so I had a modified side control on him where my stomach was facing his legs and the ceiling (probably similar to a ushiro kesa gatame but without controlling his head). He still had a very tight choke so all my effort went into creating as much pressure as possible from the above pin which eventually resulted in him loosening the choke a little which then allowed me to turn back to a more standard stomach to stomach side control. It wasn't pretty but I got out....but just barely. The time before I had to tap probably because I could not establish enough pinning pressure.
11/13/19 2:03 PM
6/18/10
Posts: 2867

Blind for  IpponOmoPlata

11/14/19 5:01 PM
12/21/04
Posts: 2061

Here is an escape by my friend Roy Marsh that is pretty much identical to the one in Shen's video. Both Shen and Roy really emphasize the importance of dropping the shoulder.  

 

11/14/19 5:18 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 35641
One thing that is nice about ^ this ^ type approach is that it is analogous to the basic RNC defense on the ground; that you want to get "off-line" and perpendicular to your opponent. It's basically the same defense standing or on the ground, which is always nice to keep things simple.

11/14/19 5:24 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 35642
rmenergy - 

Blind for  IpponOmoPlata


I hesitate to mention this, as I don't want to give away TOO many Wing Chun secrets, but...

At the highest levels, Wing Chun practitioners are said to be able to "Bong Sau" with their dong.

Such a groin grab would instantly be rendered be useless.

11/14/19 5:39 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 52487
Dong sau
Edited: 11/14/19 5:46 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 35645
Legend has it that the ORIGINAL Wing Chun Wooden Dummy had a, smaller, "extra" appendage right in the middle. This knowledge has mostly been lost in the mists of time.

11/14/19 6:51 PM
8/30/09
Posts: 1696
shen - Legend has it that the ORIGINAL Wing Chun Wooden Dummy had a, smaller, "extra" appendage right in the middle. This knowledge has mostly been lost in the mists of time.

This is true , I just bought a new one and it was called the " gender fluid model 2.0  non binary "

11/14/19 7:50 PM
7/20/04
Posts: 1127
shen -
Aaron Lapointe -
SpeedKing9 - 

 


Awesome stuff from Grandmaster Shen!! What happens though if your head is locked so tight you can't turn your body much. Maybe I'm overthinking things and turning in will always be an option.

Since your shoulders move independent of your neck, just so  long as your right shoulder  [in this case] doesn't get hung up on the assailant's [right] peck, you can move. That's why "the guy in the video" says YOU have to make that space.

 

For me, this is my favorite escape from this situation.

Of course, there's also the classic Flying Mare / Ippon Seoi Nage type escape too, but that's obviously kinda hard if the person is dragging you backwards.

 

This is excellent...the entering to the takedown seems more effective than pivoting out and going for osoto gari/face palm

11/14/19 7:59 PM
3/15/15
Posts: 12453
I'll be honest, we tried live drilling (and I mean hard) this move years ago and it only worked about 20% of time if we could keep our blance. Most of the time we were too late to react as the mugger's choke was too tight too fast. IOW, after a while we were aniticpating the movement and had more success because we braced our body because we anticipated it. But I do think angling like that is good regardless of what ahppens as it gives the greatest chance for escape.
29 days ago
10/28/08
Posts: 1965

I mostly agree with the videos shown.  In my opinion, what gets left out is the body mechanics required to make this type of escape work.  Teaching body alignment is critical, but almost always missing.

29 days ago
12/21/04
Posts: 2062
shen - One thing that is nice about ^ this ^ type approach is that it is analogous to the basic RNC defense on the ground; that you want to get "off-line" and perpendicular to your opponent. It's basically the same defense standing or on the ground, which is always nice to keep things simple.


That's pretty much how things played out in my example where I said I took it to the ground. Since he was on the ground it was a little easier for me to to keep him stuck to the ground with my weight while I moved "off line" and perpendicular as you said. I described it as a "last ditch/Hail Mary" escape since you obviously want to escape standing if possible. But changing the level from standing to ground did buy me a few more preecious seconds. 

22 days ago
3/11/05
Posts: 0