David Jacobs' BJJGround BJJ Secrets for MMA by Ricardo Liborio

9 days ago
7/30/03
Posts: 7366

http://www.grapplearts.com/BJJ-Secrets-for-MMA.pdf

 

 

Thanks Stephen for this good interview

9 days ago
7/30/03
Posts: 7367

This interview was obviously done a while ago because Liborio is talking about Marcelo training for mma but back then he had this to say about training in the gi.

 

Q: If an untrained person wanted to eventually fight in MMA would you make them train BJJ with the gi first?
A: Somebody without BJJ experience should definitely train with the gi - they have to do it because it's the core of the art. After a while of training with the gi, it depends on his schedule

 

 

What do you think? Has the gi game changed so much that this is no longer true in a lot of academies?

8 days ago
9/26/07
Posts: 712

I would imagine he just means practicing basics and general rolling in the gi to tighten up fundamental Grappling rather than learning elaborate sports bjj techniques 

8 days ago
2/17/03
Posts: 13185
Calhoon - 

This interview was obviously done a while ago because Liborio is talking about Marcelo training for mma but back then he had this to say about training in the gi.

 

Q: If an untrained person wanted to eventually fight in MMA would you make them train BJJ with the gi first?
A: Somebody without BJJ experience should definitely train with the gi - they have to do it because it's the core of the art. After a while of training with the gi, it depends on his schedule

 

 

What do you think? Has the gi game changed so much that this is no longer true in a lot of academies?


I maintain that high level wrestlers benefit tremendously from putting the gi on.

The gi forces wrestlers to learn BJJ. Otherwise, they can outwrestle most people no gi and no learn how to defend against the highest level opponents. The gi forces people to stop wrestling.
Edited: 8 days ago
7/30/03
Posts: 7377
wiggum -
Calhoon - 

This interview was obviously done a while ago because Liborio is talking about Marcelo training for mma but back then he had this to say about training in the gi.

 

Q: If an untrained person wanted to eventually fight in MMA would you make them train BJJ with the gi first?
A: Somebody without BJJ experience should definitely train with the gi - they have to do it because it's the core of the art. After a while of training with the gi, it depends on his schedule

 

 

What do you think? Has the gi game changed so much that this is no longer true in a lot of academies?


I maintain that high level wrestlers benefit tremendously from putting the gi on.

The gi forces wrestlers to learn BJJ. Otherwise, they can outwrestle most people no gi and no learn how to defend against the highest level opponents. The gi forces people to stop wrestling.

I think it is a bit of an illusion, if you will, that wrestlers can outwrestle a bjj guy. Assuming that by outwrestle you mean outgrapple on the ground. 

 

This myth comes from the fact that so many bjj guys are way inferior athletes to wrestlers and also the wrestlers have better wrestling than the bjj guys bjj. This second factor is huge. If you match up Gordon Ryan against Jordon Burroughs to see who's grappling is best then Gordon easily gets the sweep and maintains position if he wants to imo. If you match up a high level brown belt against a mid level D-1 wrestler grappling wise the same results imo. The same goes on down to beginners level in both sports.

 

We see guys like Ben Askren grapple against what are said to be great bjj guys and he can hold his own so it's easy to conclude that a wrestler can just learn submissions and "be ok" but the thing is Ben is or was an olympic level wrestler. Olympic level wrestling is only  comparable to the most elite level of bjj guys like a Gordon Ryan. Most bjj guys, even the ones in ADCC are not at that level. Let him grapple against Gordon and the results wont be the same as if he were grappling a "top black belt instructor." And Ben has also been doing bjj for quite some time now but I still believe that position wise Gordon could get the sweep pass the guard and maintain position if he chose too, much less get the submission.

 

I could be wrong but that is what I believe.

8 days ago
5/12/08
Posts: 1456

Didn’t Marcelo tap Askren a bunch of times ?

7 days ago
2/17/03
Posts: 13223
Calhoon - 
wiggum -
Calhoon - 

This interview was obviously done a while ago because Liborio is talking about Marcelo training for mma but back then he had this to say about training in the gi.

 

Q: If an untrained person wanted to eventually fight in MMA would you make them train BJJ with the gi first?
A: Somebody without BJJ experience should definitely train with the gi - they have to do it because it's the core of the art. After a while of training with the gi, it depends on his schedule

 

 

What do you think? Has the gi game changed so much that this is no longer true in a lot of academies?


I maintain that high level wrestlers benefit tremendously from putting the gi on.

The gi forces wrestlers to learn BJJ. Otherwise, they can outwrestle most people no gi and no learn how to defend against the highest level opponents. The gi forces people to stop wrestling.

I think it is a bit of an illusion, if you will, that wrestlers can outwrestle a bjj guy. Assuming that by outwrestle you mean outgrapple on the ground. 

 

This myth comes from the fact that so many bjj guys are way inferior athletes to wrestlers and also the wrestlers have better wrestling than the bjj guys bjj. This second factor is huge. If you match up Gordon Ryan against Jordon Burroughs to see who's grappling is best then Gordon easily gets the sweep and maintains position if he wants to imo. If you match up a high level brown belt against a mid level D-1 wrestler grappling wise the same results imo. The same goes on down to beginners level in both sports.

 

We see guys like Ben Askren grapple against what are said to be great bjj guys and he can hold his own so it's easy to conclude that a wrestler can just learn submissions and "be ok" but the thing is Ben is or was an olympic level wrestler. Olympic level wrestling is only  comparable to the most elite level of bjj guys like a Gordon Ryan. Most bjj guys, even the ones in ADCC are not at that level. Let him grapple against Gordon and the results wont be the same as if he were grappling a "top black belt instructor." And Ben has also been doing bjj for quite some time now but I still believe that position wise Gordon could get the sweep pass the guard and maintain position if he chose too, much less get the submission.

 

I could be wrong but that is what I believe.


We don't disagree! What you're saying is why I support wrestlers getting in the gi.

Here's my experience: I came into BJJ after four years of D1 wrestling. After a couple of weeks, I was able to outwrestle most purple belts. That is to say, without a gi, I would find ways to take their backs or get to side mount and pin them. My athleticism and overall grappling was so far superior to their's.

However, when I would go with high level brown and black belts, I got smoked. And the gap never really closed. Because I didn't have a gi on, I wasn't getting better. I continued beating the people whom I beat and continued losing to the brown and black belts. In MMA, I found myself getting caught in submissions.

Putting the gi on forced me to learn the techniques needed to be competitive with high level guys on the ground. It forced me to actually learn BJJ.
7 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 8613
wiggum - 
Calhoon - 
wiggum -
Calhoon - 

This interview was obviously done a while ago because Liborio is talking about Marcelo training for mma but back then he had this to say about training in the gi.

 

Q: If an untrained person wanted to eventually fight in MMA would you make them train BJJ with the gi first?
A: Somebody without BJJ experience should definitely train with the gi - they have to do it because it's the core of the art. After a while of training with the gi, it depends on his schedule

 

 

What do you think? Has the gi game changed so much that this is no longer true in a lot of academies?


I maintain that high level wrestlers benefit tremendously from putting the gi on.

The gi forces wrestlers to learn BJJ. Otherwise, they can outwrestle most people no gi and no learn how to defend against the highest level opponents. The gi forces people to stop wrestling.

I think it is a bit of an illusion, if you will, that wrestlers can outwrestle a bjj guy. Assuming that by outwrestle you mean outgrapple on the ground. 

 

This myth comes from the fact that so many bjj guys are way inferior athletes to wrestlers and also the wrestlers have better wrestling than the bjj guys bjj. This second factor is huge. If you match up Gordon Ryan against Jordon Burroughs to see who's grappling is best then Gordon easily gets the sweep and maintains position if he wants to imo. If you match up a high level brown belt against a mid level D-1 wrestler grappling wise the same results imo. The same goes on down to beginners level in both sports.

 

We see guys like Ben Askren grapple against what are said to be great bjj guys and he can hold his own so it's easy to conclude that a wrestler can just learn submissions and "be ok" but the thing is Ben is or was an olympic level wrestler. Olympic level wrestling is only  comparable to the most elite level of bjj guys like a Gordon Ryan. Most bjj guys, even the ones in ADCC are not at that level. Let him grapple against Gordon and the results wont be the same as if he were grappling a "top black belt instructor." And Ben has also been doing bjj for quite some time now but I still believe that position wise Gordon could get the sweep pass the guard and maintain position if he chose too, much less get the submission.

 

I could be wrong but that is what I believe.


We don't disagree! What you're saying is why I support wrestlers getting in the gi.

Here's my experience: I came into BJJ after four years of D1 wrestling. After a couple of weeks, I was able to outwrestle most purple belts. That is to say, without a gi, I would find ways to take their backs or get to side mount and pin them. My athleticism and overall grappling was so far superior to their's.

However, when I would go with high level brown and black belts, I got smoked. And the gap never really closed. Because I didn't have a gi on, I wasn't getting better. I continued beating the people whom I beat and continued losing to the brown and black belts. In MMA, I found myself getting caught in submissions.

Putting the gi on forced me to learn the techniques needed to be competitive with high level guys on the ground. It forced me to actually learn BJJ.

I think it comes down to different movement patterns. Wrestling is characterized by specific movement patterns as is Bjj. The movement patterns of Bjj are best demonstrated with the gi.

Without the gi, Bjj is much closer to wrestling in terms of movement patterns and obviously a person who has an extensive wrestling background will have an advantage in many ways.

So if a person really wants to learn and master Bjj in terms of it movements and movement pattern, that person should learn Bjj with a gi.
7 days ago
7/30/03
Posts: 7384
wiggum -
Calhoon - 
wiggum -
Calhoon - 

This interview was obviously done a while ago because Liborio is talking about Marcelo training for mma but back then he had this to say about training in the gi.

 

Q: If an untrained person wanted to eventually fight in MMA would you make them train BJJ with the gi first?
A: Somebody without BJJ experience should definitely train with the gi - they have to do it because it's the core of the art. After a while of training with the gi, it depends on his schedule

 

 

What do you think? Has the gi game changed so much that this is no longer true in a lot of academies?


I maintain that high level wrestlers benefit tremendously from putting the gi on.

The gi forces wrestlers to learn BJJ. Otherwise, they can outwrestle most people no gi and no learn how to defend against the highest level opponents. The gi forces people to stop wrestling.

I think it is a bit of an illusion, if you will, that wrestlers can outwrestle a bjj guy. Assuming that by outwrestle you mean outgrapple on the ground. 

 

This myth comes from the fact that so many bjj guys are way inferior athletes to wrestlers and also the wrestlers have better wrestling than the bjj guys bjj. This second factor is huge. If you match up Gordon Ryan against Jordon Burroughs to see who's grappling is best then Gordon easily gets the sweep and maintains position if he wants to imo. If you match up a high level brown belt against a mid level D-1 wrestler grappling wise the same results imo. The same goes on down to beginners level in both sports.

 

We see guys like Ben Askren grapple against what are said to be great bjj guys and he can hold his own so it's easy to conclude that a wrestler can just learn submissions and "be ok" but the thing is Ben is or was an olympic level wrestler. Olympic level wrestling is only  comparable to the most elite level of bjj guys like a Gordon Ryan. Most bjj guys, even the ones in ADCC are not at that level. Let him grapple against Gordon and the results wont be the same as if he were grappling a "top black belt instructor." And Ben has also been doing bjj for quite some time now but I still believe that position wise Gordon could get the sweep pass the guard and maintain position if he chose too, much less get the submission.

 

I could be wrong but that is what I believe.


We don't disagree! What you're saying is why I support wrestlers getting in the gi.

Here's my experience: I came into BJJ after four years of D1 wrestling. After a couple of weeks, I was able to outwrestle most purple belts. That is to say, without a gi, I would find ways to take their backs or get to side mount and pin them. My athleticism and overall grappling was so far superior to their's.

However, when I would go with high level brown and black belts, I got smoked. And the gap never really closed. Because I didn't have a gi on, I wasn't getting better. I continued beating the people whom I beat and continued losing to the brown and black belts. In MMA, I found myself getting caught in submissions.

Putting the gi on forced me to learn the techniques needed to be competitive with high level guys on the ground. It forced me to actually learn BJJ.

That’s awesome! I knew you know what you are talking about just by reading your posts over the years. Now I know why you know what you are talking about.

 

One thing I would change in my last post is this though. I think there is a mid level where wrestlers are better than jiu-Jitsu guys on the ground. Probably around average blue belt and the equivalent wrestler. At that level the wrestler is better on the ground because they start on top most every time and the lower level jiu-jitsu guy doesn’t have the guard to deal with a wrestler. Like you said though, at the upper levels a wrestler has to deal with the guard of a Lovato Jr for example and that becomes a problem. And if a wrestler who has little experience with jiu-Jitsu gets swept then he has problems also. So at the lower levels I believe wrestlers are better at the ground aspects of grappling but at the upper levels the complete game of jiu-Jitsu grapplers start to shine imo.

7 days ago
4/27/18
Posts: 1634
wiggum -
Calhoon - 
wiggum -
Calhoon - 

This interview was obviously done a while ago because Liborio is talking about Marcelo training for mma but back then he had this to say about training in the gi.

 

Q: If an untrained person wanted to eventually fight in MMA would you make them train BJJ with the gi first?
A: Somebody without BJJ experience should definitely train with the gi - they have to do it because it's the core of the art. After a while of training with the gi, it depends on his schedule

 

 

What do you think? Has the gi game changed so much that this is no longer true in a lot of academies?


I maintain that high level wrestlers benefit tremendously from putting the gi on.

The gi forces wrestlers to learn BJJ. Otherwise, they can outwrestle most people no gi and no learn how to defend against the highest level opponents. The gi forces people to stop wrestling.

I think it is a bit of an illusion, if you will, that wrestlers can outwrestle a bjj guy. Assuming that by outwrestle you mean outgrapple on the ground. 

 

This myth comes from the fact that so many bjj guys are way inferior athletes to wrestlers and also the wrestlers have better wrestling than the bjj guys bjj. This second factor is huge. If you match up Gordon Ryan against Jordon Burroughs to see who's grappling is best then Gordon easily gets the sweep and maintains position if he wants to imo. If you match up a high level brown belt against a mid level D-1 wrestler grappling wise the same results imo. The same goes on down to beginners level in both sports.

 

We see guys like Ben Askren grapple against what are said to be great bjj guys and he can hold his own so it's easy to conclude that a wrestler can just learn submissions and "be ok" but the thing is Ben is or was an olympic level wrestler. Olympic level wrestling is only  comparable to the most elite level of bjj guys like a Gordon Ryan. Most bjj guys, even the ones in ADCC are not at that level. Let him grapple against Gordon and the results wont be the same as if he were grappling a "top black belt instructor." And Ben has also been doing bjj for quite some time now but I still believe that position wise Gordon could get the sweep pass the guard and maintain position if he chose too, much less get the submission.

 

I could be wrong but that is what I believe.


We don't disagree! What you're saying is why I support wrestlers getting in the gi.

Here's my experience: I came into BJJ after four years of D1 wrestling. After a couple of weeks, I was able to outwrestle most purple belts. That is to say, without a gi, I would find ways to take their backs or get to side mount and pin them. My athleticism and overall grappling was so far superior to their's.

However, when I would go with high level brown and black belts, I got smoked. And the gap never really closed. Because I didn't have a gi on, I wasn't getting better. I continued beating the people whom I beat and continued losing to the brown and black belts. In MMA, I found myself getting caught in submissions.

Putting the gi on forced me to learn the techniques needed to be competitive with high level guys on the ground. It forced me to actually learn BJJ.

Interesting, thank you

7 days ago
2/17/03
Posts: 13240
Calhoon - 
wiggum -
Calhoon - 
wiggum -
Calhoon - 

This interview was obviously done a while ago because Liborio is talking about Marcelo training for mma but back then he had this to say about training in the gi.

 

Q: If an untrained person wanted to eventually fight in MMA would you make them train BJJ with the gi first?
A: Somebody without BJJ experience should definitely train with the gi - they have to do it because it's the core of the art. After a while of training with the gi, it depends on his schedule

 

 

What do you think? Has the gi game changed so much that this is no longer true in a lot of academies?


I maintain that high level wrestlers benefit tremendously from putting the gi on.

The gi forces wrestlers to learn BJJ. Otherwise, they can outwrestle most people no gi and no learn how to defend against the highest level opponents. The gi forces people to stop wrestling.

I think it is a bit of an illusion, if you will, that wrestlers can outwrestle a bjj guy. Assuming that by outwrestle you mean outgrapple on the ground. 

 

This myth comes from the fact that so many bjj guys are way inferior athletes to wrestlers and also the wrestlers have better wrestling than the bjj guys bjj. This second factor is huge. If you match up Gordon Ryan against Jordon Burroughs to see who's grappling is best then Gordon easily gets the sweep and maintains position if he wants to imo. If you match up a high level brown belt against a mid level D-1 wrestler grappling wise the same results imo. The same goes on down to beginners level in both sports.

 

We see guys like Ben Askren grapple against what are said to be great bjj guys and he can hold his own so it's easy to conclude that a wrestler can just learn submissions and "be ok" but the thing is Ben is or was an olympic level wrestler. Olympic level wrestling is only  comparable to the most elite level of bjj guys like a Gordon Ryan. Most bjj guys, even the ones in ADCC are not at that level. Let him grapple against Gordon and the results wont be the same as if he were grappling a "top black belt instructor." And Ben has also been doing bjj for quite some time now but I still believe that position wise Gordon could get the sweep pass the guard and maintain position if he chose too, much less get the submission.

 

I could be wrong but that is what I believe.


We don't disagree! What you're saying is why I support wrestlers getting in the gi.

Here's my experience: I came into BJJ after four years of D1 wrestling. After a couple of weeks, I was able to outwrestle most purple belts. That is to say, without a gi, I would find ways to take their backs or get to side mount and pin them. My athleticism and overall grappling was so far superior to their's.

However, when I would go with high level brown and black belts, I got smoked. And the gap never really closed. Because I didn't have a gi on, I wasn't getting better. I continued beating the people whom I beat and continued losing to the brown and black belts. In MMA, I found myself getting caught in submissions.

Putting the gi on forced me to learn the techniques needed to be competitive with high level guys on the ground. It forced me to actually learn BJJ.

That’s awesome! I knew you know what you are talking about just by reading your posts over the years. Now I know why you know what you are talking about.

 

One thing I would change in my last post is this though. I think there is a mid level where wrestlers are better than jiu-Jitsu guys on the ground. Probably around average blue belt and the equivalent wrestler. At that level the wrestler is better on the ground because they start on top most every time and the lower level jiu-jitsu guy doesn’t have the guard to deal with a wrestler. Like you said though, at the upper levels a wrestler has to deal with the guard of a Lovato Jr for example and that becomes a problem. And if a wrestler who has little experience with jiu-Jitsu gets swept then he has problems also. So at the lower levels I believe wrestlers are better at the ground aspects of grappling but at the upper levels the complete game of jiu-Jitsu grapplers start to shine imo.


Agreed completely.

Thanks for the kind words. I think you're one of the best posters on the forum.