David Jacobs' BJJGround Best Gracie fighter?


5 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 2918
Who is the best Gracie fighter, not sport competition but Vale Tudo and street fighting?
1. Carlson 14-1-3 Vale Tudo, multiple challenge matches
2. Rickson 11-0, many challenge matches
3. Relson, over 130 street fights, no loses
4. Roger 8-2 MMA
5. Renzo, never backed down from a challenge
6. Ralph
7. Ryan
8. Royce
9. Robson
10. Rolls
11. Carley
Edited: 5 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 12084
Being fair to all lineages, it really should be between Rickson, Relson and maybe Rolls
5 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 32073

George Gracie, according to Carlos, Sr.

 

 

 

 

5 days ago
4/2/13
Posts: 5883

Spanning generations, who knows, I can tell you Relson will say Rolls unanimously. 

3 days ago
1/22/05
Posts: 21939
I dunno how you can quantify that because a lot of them didn't fight meaningful competition to be able to evaluate them truly.

There's a big difference between beating someone with little to know skill in challenge matches, or one dimensional fighters - to fighting well rounded fighters in MMA.

I would say Renzo has the most impressive career in terms of who has he fought and beaten. Renzo was never afraid to test himself.

I also give Royce credit. Even early in his career when MMA was one dimensional, he fought some guys who should have been kryptonite to his - like Shamrock and Severn. Later on he went to war against a prime Sakuraba and wasn't afraid to test himself against a prime Matt Hughes.

Rickson only has one meaningful fight against Funaki.

In the modern era, I think Roger had a good career against good competition. He just didn't have many fights.

Rolls I think would have done well in early MMA if he was still around. Everyone clearly thought highly of him and he seemed well rounded and didn't depend solely on BJJ.
3 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 8391
Here's the thing about Relson and his "street fight" record:

By his own admission, NONE of Relson's so-called street fights lasted over a 1 minute.

All (the vast majority) of Relson's so-called street fights weren't even fights but rather quick and dirty confrontations... a push...a shovel... takedown... rear naked choke... Furthermore, the people with whom Relson had these confrontations with knew absolutely nothing. They were bums... wanna be tough guys who had no fighting skill whatsoever.

I am sure other Gracie's have had their fair share of street confrontations.

Edited: 3 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 12105
m.g - Here's the thing about Relson and his "street fight" record:

By his own admission, NONE of Relson's so-called street fights lasted over a 1 minute.

All (the vast majority) of Relson's so-called street fights weren't even fights but rather quick and dirty confrontations... a push...a shovel... takedown... rear naked choke... Furthermore, the people with whom Relson had these confrontations with knew absolutely nothing. They were bums... wanna be tough guys who had no fighting skill whatsoever.

I am sure other Gracie's have had their fair share of street confrontations.


Keep in mind that Rickson himself said he'd rather fight a 250 pound guy in the ring than a 150 pound person in the street. Some of those fights were against multiple opponents. Some were against people with weapons. If we're training jiujitsu as a martial art, for self defense, that's pretty good experience to have. If we somehow use mental gymnastics to minimize Relson's street experience we should do the same for people like Bas Rutten. I'm not convinced we should. And I haven't even mentioned the psychological pressure that goes with no ref and no rules. Remember what Mark Twain said about the unskilled brawler often being the most dangerous.
2 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 8393
FatBuddha - 
m.g - Here's the thing about Relson and his "street fight" record:

By his own admission, NONE of Relson's so-called street fights lasted over a 1 minute.

All (the vast majority) of Relson's so-called street fights weren't even fights but rather quick and dirty confrontations... a push...a shovel... takedown... rear naked choke... Furthermore, the people with whom Relson had these confrontations with knew absolutely nothing. They were bums... wanna be tough guys who had no fighting skill whatsoever.

I am sure other Gracie's have had their fair share of street confrontations.


Keep in mind that Rickson himself said he'd rather fight a 250 pound guy in the ring than a 150 pound person in the street. Some of those fights were against multiple opponents. Some were against people with weapons. If we're training jiujitsu as a martial art, for self defense, that's pretty good experience to have. If we somehow use mental gymnastics to minimize Relson's street experience we should do the same for people like Bas Rutten. I'm not convinced we should. And I haven't even mentioned the psychological pressure that goes with no ref and no rules. Remember what Mark Twain said about the unskilled brawler often being the most dangerous.

What?

"mental gymnastics to minimize Relson's street experience"

I am not trying to minimize anything. Truth and perspective.

You mentioned the word "fights". I wouldn't call a confrontation that lasted less than a minute (again, Relson's own words) a fight.
Edited: 2 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 12109
m.g - 
FatBuddha - 
m.g - Here's the thing about Relson and his "street fight" record:

By his own admission, NONE of Relson's so-called street fights lasted over a 1 minute.

All (the vast majority) of Relson's so-called street fights weren't even fights but rather quick and dirty confrontations... a push...a shovel... takedown... rear naked choke... Furthermore, the people with whom Relson had these confrontations with knew absolutely nothing. They were bums... wanna be tough guys who had no fighting skill whatsoever.

I am sure other Gracie's have had their fair share of street confrontations.


Keep in mind that Rickson himself said he'd rather fight a 250 pound guy in the ring than a 150 pound person in the street. Some of those fights were against multiple opponents. Some were against people with weapons. If we're training jiujitsu as a martial art, for self defense, that's pretty good experience to have. If we somehow use mental gymnastics to minimize Relson's street experience we should do the same for people like Bas Rutten. I'm not convinced we should. And I haven't even mentioned the psychological pressure that goes with no ref and no rules. Remember what Mark Twain said about the unskilled brawler often being the most dangerous.

What?

"mental gymnastics to minimize Relson's street experience"

I am not trying to minimize anything. Truth and perspective.

You mentioned the word "fights". I wouldn't call a confrontation that lasted less than a minute (again, Relson's own words) a fight.

Conor-Aldo wasn't a fight? Tyson-Mitch Green wasn't a fight? Royce-Shamorck 1 (57 seconds) wasn't a fight?
2 days ago
5/11/08
Posts: 1689

Saku recently did an AMA on the Reddit mma subreddit and said Renzo was favourite fight of all the Gracie fights. He said it was because he was the only one who didn't ask for special rules. 

1 day ago
12/24/10
Posts: 2594

 

1 day ago
1/1/01
Posts: 8395
FatBuddha - 
m.g - 
FatBuddha - 
m.g - Here's the thing about Relson and his "street fight" record:

By his own admission, NONE of Relson's so-called street fights lasted over a 1 minute.

All (the vast majority) of Relson's so-called street fights weren't even fights but rather quick and dirty confrontations... a push...a shovel... takedown... rear naked choke... Furthermore, the people with whom Relson had these confrontations with knew absolutely nothing. They were bums... wanna be tough guys who had no fighting skill whatsoever.

I am sure other Gracie's have had their fair share of street confrontations.


Keep in mind that Rickson himself said he'd rather fight a 250 pound guy in the ring than a 150 pound person in the street. Some of those fights were against multiple opponents. Some were against people with weapons. If we're training jiujitsu as a martial art, for self defense, that's pretty good experience to have. If we somehow use mental gymnastics to minimize Relson's street experience we should do the same for people like Bas Rutten. I'm not convinced we should. And I haven't even mentioned the psychological pressure that goes with no ref and no rules. Remember what Mark Twain said about the unskilled brawler often being the most dangerous.

What?

"mental gymnastics to minimize Relson's street experience"

I am not trying to minimize anything. Truth and perspective.

You mentioned the word "fights". I wouldn't call a confrontation that lasted less than a minute (again, Relson's own words) a fight.

Conor-Aldo wasn't a fight? Tyson-Mitch Green wasn't a fight? Royce-Shamorck 1 (57 seconds) wasn't a fight?

Dude... STOP...

I am not talking about anyone else other that RELSON GRACIE.

I am specifically talking about RELSON street experience not Conor, Aldo, Mike Tyson, Mitch Green, Royce or Ken Shamrock. I don't even know why you brought them up. They have absolutely NOTHING to do with Relson and Relson's street experience.
20 hours ago
1/1/01
Posts: 12115
m.g - 
FatBuddha - 
m.g - 
FatBuddha - 
m.g - Here's the thing about Relson and his "street fight" record:

By his own admission, NONE of Relson's so-called street fights lasted over a 1 minute.

All (the vast majority) of Relson's so-called street fights weren't even fights but rather quick and dirty confrontations... a push...a shovel... takedown... rear naked choke... Furthermore, the people with whom Relson had these confrontations with knew absolutely nothing. They were bums... wanna be tough guys who had no fighting skill whatsoever.

I am sure other Gracie's have had their fair share of street confrontations.


Keep in mind that Rickson himself said he'd rather fight a 250 pound guy in the ring than a 150 pound person in the street. Some of those fights were against multiple opponents. Some were against people with weapons. If we're training jiujitsu as a martial art, for self defense, that's pretty good experience to have. If we somehow use mental gymnastics to minimize Relson's street experience we should do the same for people like Bas Rutten. I'm not convinced we should. And I haven't even mentioned the psychological pressure that goes with no ref and no rules. Remember what Mark Twain said about the unskilled brawler often being the most dangerous.

What?

"mental gymnastics to minimize Relson's street experience"

I am not trying to minimize anything. Truth and perspective.

You mentioned the word "fights". I wouldn't call a confrontation that lasted less than a minute (again, Relson's own words) a fight.

Conor-Aldo wasn't a fight? Tyson-Mitch Green wasn't a fight? Royce-Shamorck 1 (57 seconds) wasn't a fight?

Dude... STOP...

I am not talking about anyone else other that RELSON GRACIE.

I am specifically talking about RELSON street experience not Conor, Aldo, Mike Tyson, Mitch Green, Royce or Ken Shamrock. I don't even know why you brought them up. They have absolutely NOTHING to do with Relson and Relson's street experience.

Not sure if serious. YOU argued that a confrontation under a minute wasn't a fight. I gave examples obliterating your argument. Now your comeback is "Dude...STOP"???????????????????????????
19 hours ago
3/17/10
Posts: 854
m.g - Here's the thing about Relson and his "street fight" record:

By his own admission, NONE of Relson's so-called street fights lasted over a 1 minute.

All (the vast majority) of Relson's so-called street fights weren't even fights but rather quick and dirty confrontations... a push...a shovel... takedown... rear naked choke... Furthermore, the people with whom Relson had these confrontations with knew absolutely nothing. They were bums... wanna be tough guys who had no fighting skill whatsoever.

I am sure other Gracie's have had their fair share of street confrontations.

How about bare knuckle fights such as Rio Heroes....those real enough or is MMA your only means is testing ones fight ability. I want to see how many UFC fighters will fight Rio Heroes rules. 

19 hours ago
3/17/10
Posts: 855
FatBuddha -
m.g - 
FatBuddha - 
m.g - Here's the thing about Relson and his "street fight" record:

By his own admission, NONE of Relson's so-called street fights lasted over a 1 minute.

All (the vast majority) of Relson's so-called street fights weren't even fights but rather quick and dirty confrontations... a push...a shovel... takedown... rear naked choke... Furthermore, the people with whom Relson had these confrontations with knew absolutely nothing. They were bums... wanna be tough guys who had no fighting skill whatsoever.

I am sure other Gracie's have had their fair share of street confrontations.


Keep in mind that Rickson himself said he'd rather fight a 250 pound guy in the ring than a 150 pound person in the street. Some of those fights were against multiple opponents. Some were against people with weapons. If we're training jiujitsu as a martial art, for self defense, that's pretty good experience to have. If we somehow use mental gymnastics to minimize Relson's street experience we should do the same for people like Bas Rutten. I'm not convinced we should. And I haven't even mentioned the psychological pressure that goes with no ref and no rules. Remember what Mark Twain said about the unskilled brawler often being the most dangerous.

What?

"mental gymnastics to minimize Relson's street experience"

I am not trying to minimize anything. Truth and perspective.

You mentioned the word "fights". I wouldn't call a confrontation that lasted less than a minute (again, Relson's own words) a fight.

Conor-Aldo wasn't a fight? Tyson-Mitch Green wasn't a fight? Royce-Shamorck 1 (57 seconds) wasn't a fight?

So a fight with gloves, rules, referee and time limit is only a true fight. 

6 hours ago
1/1/01
Posts: 8396
Ernest Estrada - 
FatBuddha -
m.g - 
FatBuddha - 
m.g - Here's the thing about Relson and his "street fight" record:

By his own admission, NONE of Relson's so-called street fights lasted over a 1 minute.

All (the vast majority) of Relson's so-called street fights weren't even fights but rather quick and dirty confrontations... a push...a shovel... takedown... rear naked choke... Furthermore, the people with whom Relson had these confrontations with knew absolutely nothing. They were bums... wanna be tough guys who had no fighting skill whatsoever.

I am sure other Gracie's have had their fair share of street confrontations.


Keep in mind that Rickson himself said he'd rather fight a 250 pound guy in the ring than a 150 pound person in the street. Some of those fights were against multiple opponents. Some were against people with weapons. If we're training jiujitsu as a martial art, for self defense, that's pretty good experience to have. If we somehow use mental gymnastics to minimize Relson's street experience we should do the same for people like Bas Rutten. I'm not convinced we should. And I haven't even mentioned the psychological pressure that goes with no ref and no rules. Remember what Mark Twain said about the unskilled brawler often being the most dangerous.

What?

"mental gymnastics to minimize Relson's street experience"

I am not trying to minimize anything. Truth and perspective.

You mentioned the word "fights". I wouldn't call a confrontation that lasted less than a minute (again, Relson's own words) a fight.

Conor-Aldo wasn't a fight? Tyson-Mitch Green wasn't a fight? Royce-Shamorck 1 (57 seconds) wasn't a fight?

So a fight with gloves, rules, referee and time limit is only a true fight. 


Again, I am specifically talking about RELSON and his so called street experience. Relson claimed NONE of encounters in the streets lasted longer than a minute.

In my opinion those encounters are not fights but confrontations.
4 hours ago
1/1/01
Posts: 12120
m.g - 
Ernest Estrada - 
FatBuddha -
m.g - 
FatBuddha - 
m.g - Here's the thing about Relson and his "street fight" record:

By his own admission, NONE of Relson's so-called street fights lasted over a 1 minute.

All (the vast majority) of Relson's so-called street fights weren't even fights but rather quick and dirty confrontations... a push...a shovel... takedown... rear naked choke... Furthermore, the people with whom Relson had these confrontations with knew absolutely nothing. They were bums... wanna be tough guys who had no fighting skill whatsoever.

I am sure other Gracie's have had their fair share of street confrontations.


Keep in mind that Rickson himself said he'd rather fight a 250 pound guy in the ring than a 150 pound person in the street. Some of those fights were against multiple opponents. Some were against people with weapons. If we're training jiujitsu as a martial art, for self defense, that's pretty good experience to have. If we somehow use mental gymnastics to minimize Relson's street experience we should do the same for people like Bas Rutten. I'm not convinced we should. And I haven't even mentioned the psychological pressure that goes with no ref and no rules. Remember what Mark Twain said about the unskilled brawler often being the most dangerous.

What?

"mental gymnastics to minimize Relson's street experience"

I am not trying to minimize anything. Truth and perspective.

You mentioned the word "fights". I wouldn't call a confrontation that lasted less than a minute (again, Relson's own words) a fight.

Conor-Aldo wasn't a fight? Tyson-Mitch Green wasn't a fight? Royce-Shamorck 1 (57 seconds) wasn't a fight?

So a fight with gloves, rules, referee and time limit is only a true fight. 


Again, I am specifically talking about RELSON and his so called street experience. Relson claimed NONE of encounters in the streets lasted longer than a minute.

In my opinion those encounters are not fights but confrontations.

You do understand that logical people make general definitions that apply to more than one person in the universe, right? I don't give a fuck if you think you're only talking about Relson, but when you make an arbitrary rule that you think fights under a minute aren't fights, if you want to be logical, you have to apply that to all fights under a minute and not just Relson's fights under a minute. If someone shows you how silly that line of thinking is with counter-examples you should pause and try to think instead of obstinately repeating your arbitrary rule.