David Jacobs' BJJGround Brown by internet?

16 days ago
6/5/14
Posts: 313

You guys ever heard of a brown belt awarded by internet/video?  Never bern in the same hemisphere let alone country as the student but gives a brown belt?

15 days ago
2/28/03
Posts: 47649

Uh oh 

15 days ago
8/28/10
Posts: 12386

Spill them beans bro

15 days ago
5/7/06
Posts: 2341

Isn't Roy Harris doing something like this.?

15 days ago
8/8/09
Posts: 3763
In
Edited: 15 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 520

LOL. I dunno who this is, but I try not to judge without knowing all the facts and circumstances. Plus, I have enough problems on my own trying to progress in jiu jitsu, much less worry about what other people are doing...

15 days ago
10/11/18
Posts: 2922

Hope not

15 days ago
8/17/08
Posts: 1090

*grabs pitchfork

Edited: 15 days ago
12/26/02
Posts: 11925

Is this the same story from a couple years ago?  Roy Harris toyed with the idea of supervising tests by skype - because he has strict exam criteria and he's been giving the tests long enough that he knows exactly what he's looking for.  He never said it would be for people he's never met - just that he wouldn't have to fly out in person to watch the test if he could see it remotely.  

He's never actually DONE a test this way, but he put something out saying he was open to it, and bjjee went on a crusade.  He was actually amused by all the attention it got. 

It's slightly funny to me how many people think that, say, a lower belt can learn stuff by watching it in a DVD or online video, but don't think a 6th degree black belt can tell how well you're performing something by watching you do it.  

It's even funnier when you consider how many people got belts with no particular criteria at all.  "You're a blue belt now."  Ok, why?  

14 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 1915

I think Roy’s tests and the fact that he has criteria is pretty cool.  Coming up the ranks I always thought it would be cool to know exactly what it is a blue is supposed to know.  However, the longer I’m in the game I realize that feeling someone roll and feeling that they roll like a brown belt or blue belt or whatever is just as important as how many techniques the can perform.  You can’t get that with Skype. I also think that performing against an unwilling, skilled opponent is what separates BJJ from TMAs. I am all for keeping the standards higher than that even if Roy can accurately gauge performance through the screen. Now if this is a regular student that Roy has rolled with or has seen roll for years then that is a different story all together. 

Edited: 14 days ago
6/5/14
Posts: 314

Hey guys, got caught up.  Will post details soon and see what you think.  Cheers 

14 days ago
12/26/02
Posts: 11926
Hey Beer Man - 

I think Roy’s tests and the fact that he has criteria is pretty cool.  Coming up the ranks I always thought it would be cool to know exactly what it is a blue is supposed to know.  However, the longer I’m in the game I realize that feeling someone roll and feeling that they roll like a brown belt or blue belt or whatever is just as important as how many techniques the can perform.  You can’t get that with Skype. I also think that performing against an unwilling, skilled opponent is what separates BJJ from TMAs. I am all for keeping the standards higher than that even if Roy can accurately gauge performance through the screen. Now if this is a regular student that Roy has rolled with or has seen roll for years then that is a different story all together. 


HBM,

I think you and I agree.  To be clear, the only one of Roy's tests that is about "knowing techniques" is the blue exam...and it also has some live rounds of sparring.  

ALL the other tests are live rounds, not techniques.  For example, my brown exam was 9 (live) rounds each of mount escapes, side escapes, north-south escapes, scarf hold escapes, headlock escapes, knee on belly escapes, defending the guard against a pass, passing the guard, holding the side, and mount.  In the rounds where I had the dominant position, he would start a countdown ("Ten, nine, eight...") and I had to finish in that time.  Then we had 3 ten minute sparring rounds.  I had 32 partners in rotation including 4 black belts.  

I would make the argument that he could have supervised my test remotely if he wanted to.  

14 days ago
4/5/07
Posts: 10344

I'd say sometimes it isn't about the standard any one person would set, so much as the precedent.  Once a highly respected blackbelt starts promoting remotely, it legitimizes that practice.  Then when a less legitimate instructor wants to do the same thing, it's a little harder to call him out because it just comes down to your opinion of his skill instead of relying on at least some framework of acceptable practice.  

I'm sure the first 10 year old who got a TMA blackbelt was a real stand-out.  But once that was a thing, there was no stopping that train.  

I would think that anyone who grew up in the US pre-UFC and knew what the martial arts world was like then, would want to be very touchy about letting anything start up that would move us back in that direction.  

14 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 10941
twinkletoesCT -

Is this the same story from a couple years ago?  Roy Harris toyed with the idea of supervising tests by skype - because he has strict exam criteria and he's been giving the tests long enough that he knows exactly what he's looking for.  He never said it would be for people he's never met - just that he wouldn't have to fly out in person to watch the test if he could see it remotely.  

He's never actually DONE a test this way, but he put something out saying he was open to it, and bjjee went on a crusade.  He was actually amused by all the attention it got. 

It's slightly funny to me how many people think that, say, a lower belt can learn stuff by watching it in a DVD or online video, but don't think a 6th degree black belt can tell how well you're performing something by watching you do it.  

It's even funnier when you consider how many people got belts with no particular criteria at all.  "You're a blue belt now."  Ok, why?  

14 days ago
12/26/02
Posts: 11927
GenericAmerican - 

I'd say sometimes it isn't about the standard any one person would set, so much as the precedent.  Once a highly respected blackbelt starts promoting remotely, it legitimizes that practice.  Then when a less legitimate instructor wants to do the same thing, it's a little harder to call him out because it just comes down to your opinion of his skill instead of relying on at least some framework of acceptable practice.  

I'm sure the first 10 year old who got a TMA blackbelt was a real stand-out.  But once that was a thing, there was no stopping that train.  

I would think that anyone who grew up in the US pre-UFC and knew what the martial arts world was like then, would want to be very touchy about letting anything start up that would move us back in that direction.  


I feel you on this one.  I came from TMAs into BJJ in the 90s.

But also, BJJ already has plennnnnty of problems with ranks and legitimacy.  Aren't we long overdue, as a community, for a real talk about what the standards are for each rank?  Can we decide on those WITHOUT saying (a) a black belt "just knows" when you're ready, or (b) you're ready for ____ when you "hang with other ____ belts"?  Because both of those are entirely devoid of real meaning.  On the other hand, saying "a brown belt should be able to escape from the mount against partners of varying sizes and experiences levels, without using his or her hands" actually communicates an expectation.  

If we could arrive at clear standards, even if they vary by organization (or whatever), then the method of carrying out an evaluation becomes less important.  

14 days ago
2/28/03
Posts: 47651
GenericAmerican -

I'd say sometimes it isn't about the standard any one person would set, so much as the precedent.  Once a highly respected blackbelt starts promoting remotely, it legitimizes that practice.  Then when a less legitimate instructor wants to do the same thing, it's a little harder to call him out because it just comes down to your opinion of his skill instead of relying on at least some framework of acceptable practice.  

I'm sure the first 10 year old who got a TMA blackbelt was a real stand-out.  But once that was a thing, there was no stopping that train.  

I would think that anyone who grew up in the US pre-UFC and knew what the martial arts world was like then, would want to be very touchy about letting anything start up that would move us back in that direction.  

Well said 

13 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 1916
twinkletoesCT -
Hey Beer Man - 

I think Roy’s tests and the fact that he has criteria is pretty cool.  Coming up the ranks I always thought it would be cool to know exactly what it is a blue is supposed to know.  However, the longer I’m in the game I realize that feeling someone roll and feeling that they roll like a brown belt or blue belt or whatever is just as important as how many techniques the can perform.  You can’t get that with Skype. I also think that performing against an unwilling, skilled opponent is what separates BJJ from TMAs. I am all for keeping the standards higher than that even if Roy can accurately gauge performance through the screen. Now if this is a regular student that Roy has rolled with or has seen roll for years then that is a different story all together. 


HBM,

I think you and I agree.  To be clear, the only one of Roy's tests that is about "knowing techniques" is the blue exam...and it also has some live rounds of sparring.  

ALL the other tests are live rounds, not techniques.  For example, my brown exam was 9 (live) rounds each of mount escapes, side escapes, north-south escapes, scarf hold escapes, headlock escapes, knee on belly escapes, defending the guard against a pass, passing the guard, holding the side, and mount.  In the rounds where I had the dominant position, he would start a countdown ("Ten, nine, eight...") and I had to finish in that time.  Then we had 3 ten minute sparring rounds.  I had 32 partners in rotation including 4 black belts.  

I would make the argument that he could have supervised my test remotely if he wanted to.  

Roy’s tests certainly seem rigorous and you might be right that it is time to codify the standards of each belt level. However, it is one thing to observe a student you know well remotely and another thing to observe remotely a student that the professor has never had first hand on the mat knowledge of.  If you are going to codify what a student should know before getting a belt could the same be said about the professor?  Should they know something about their student before belting them?  

13 days ago
4/2/13
Posts: 6274

I got a temporary brown belt from the Shendokan, but didn't receive the official rank certificate because they claim I did not send in my fourth installment of $499.00  but I got the screen shot of my online account being charged.  It's not my fault that the Shendokan's money is floating in cyberspace somewhere.  I'm trying to get a petition signed for them to just award me the rank already.  I'll be circulating a flyer soon.

13 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 34780
Robobear - 

I got a temporary brown belt from the Shendokan, but didn't receive the official rank certificate because they claim I did not send in my fourth installment of $499.00  but I got the screen shot of my online account being charged.  It's not my fault that the Shendokan's money is floating in cyberspace somewhere.  I'm trying to get a petition signed for them to just award me the rank already.  I'll be circulating a flyer soon.


We are switching over to ONLY deal in a brand new type of cryptocurrency called "Shencoin"

This information was tweeted to you.

13 days ago
8/17/08
Posts: 1091

with the access to LEGIT schools now there is no reason someone needs to do online testing unless you just dont want to put the work in.  i'll die on that hill.

Edited: 13 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 18555

LOL @ Shencoin!  Shendokan never ceases to innovate.

13 days ago
4/2/13
Posts: 6276
shen -
Robobear - 

I got a temporary brown belt from the Shendokan, but didn't receive the official rank certificate because they claim I did not send in my fourth installment of $499.00  but I got the screen shot of my online account being charged.  It's not my fault that the Shendokan's money is floating in cyberspace somewhere.  I'm trying to get a petition signed for them to just award me the rank already.  I'll be circulating a flyer soon.


We are switching over to ONLY deal in a brand new type of cryptocurrency called "Shencoin"

This information was tweeted to you.

This is a conspiracy to keep me down! Well bullying me with your change of payment will not work!  I will petition and get recognized Damn it!

12 days ago
6/5/14
Posts: 315

Righto, firstly I am no one special.  Was a white belt for 15 years, now a brown belt under a Brazilian in our country.  Like many others in the regional areas I taught a class as a white belt and either flew my instructor to us or flew to him to lean and train 4-5 times a year.  We all did this, from all different teams and it takes time, 12 years under my professor and just got to brown.  I am very average.

So, another instructor in town was a white belt in 2015, never competed and doesn’t roll with his guys (kids and girls only, I have spoken to many of his main guys and none of them have rolled with him) - got his brown belt.

He had a black belt teacher, that he saw maybe once a year.  Instead of finding a team to go under (there are heaps and clubs fly in and travel thousands of km’s to see theirs like I do)  he becomes affiliated with a catch wrestling and Bjj black belt in the USA and abra cadabra months later he is a brown belt proudly sprewking it all over the internet.  Pretty sure he bought his own belt and of course put it on himself.

is this the future of BJJ?  Is it going to be like Karate and TKD?  Supposedly it won’t because “the mats don’t lie” but if they never roll and can do it this way?

i am not even mad, just sad.  I feel sorry for his students who don’t know any better and sad for the art of Jiu Jitsu.

12 days ago
4/5/07
Posts: 10349

I think you’re morally obligated to storm his dojo and post the video. 

12 days ago
6/5/14
Posts: 316
GenericAmerican -

I think you’re morally obligated to storm his dojo and post the video. 

10 years ago gladly but my club is now a non-profit community club that I work for.  I just can’t, BUT at a fight show tonight the boys from my team in the next team over put it on him and he backed down like a pussy