David Jacobs' BJJGround Do you ever lose your cool in training?

11 days ago
12/30/02
Posts: 38
How many times do you let a spastic training partner "accidentally" punch you in the face or knee you in the head before you lose it?

A) I immediately lose it, before they even get going
B) Once
C) Twice
D) Three times
E) I allow them to infinitely abuse me and never lose my cool

If you lose your cool, what do you do?

A) Smash them to bits
B) Mount them and slap them silly
C) Smother them from north/south until they panic
D) Violently choke them
E) Armbar

Sure, best practice would be to stop things, take a few deep breaths and explain to them the benefit of rolling with a sense of mutual well-being. But what if that doesn't have any result? What if they argue with you and just continue to go balls-out without concern for your health?

I go with D (three times) and D (choke), although each of those three times is separated by a kind request to please stop being so spastic, as that will result in someone getting hurt (me).
11 days ago
10/14/03
Posts: 130
I get mount, deep crossface (not yet deep enough to choke them), and slowly take away all their ability to breathe.

I take my time.

Then I slowly shoulder choke. Repeat 3-6x

If somehow they manage to turn away, then it's the back mount where they are broken down flat on the mat, face down, and take my time on the RNC.

This is only with the newest, wildest guys, because anyone who has been there for a while has already been talked to and reasoned with (and possibly been through the above scenario when they were still pretty new).

There are at least 4 reasons I have adapted this response:

1) It gives me a really clear strategy for the "spaz"...I'm not just vaguely "going to show him"...wherever the roll goes, I just get top position (even if this requires an escape or a sweep) and proceed as mentioned above.

2) The two endpoints I mentioned work well across disciplines (with or without gi, work for all rule sets, self-defense, etc.), so I'm getting useful practice for myself at staying safe and doing smart, pragmatic things.

3) Chokes don't break anyone's joints if they are new/ignorant/stubborn/spazzed out. You can hold out if you want...I'm always wanting to work on my precision with them :). They are also the top of the hierarchy for me as far as "moves" go.

4) "Taking my time" is a HUGE part of this. I came to this opinion when I was teaching classes at a place where the guy who ran the school was head of security for a string of nightclubs in the area and he required all the security guys take jiu-jitsu/MMA/security classes.

So I rolled with a lot of big, strong, aggressive, inexperienced guys during that time who did not like getting beaten by a 150-160lb. dude.

At that time, I really loved armbars and triangles, and I used to love hitting people with them over and over, but what I learned is that once you tap someone, the roll starts over and they have another chance to spaz!

So-it is much safer to get top and control position and never let them up if they are spazzing. They get exactly one chance to elbow me lol, then it's bottom game for a long, long time :)

10 days ago
7/10/09
Posts: 691

There is a big difference between a guy that has no clue what he is doing/is supposed to do and a guy who is being a dick.  

Its the instructors responsibility to watch the new guys and roll with them or assign them partners that are skilled and patient enough to work through any misconceptions.

A new guy who spazzes too much just needs to be shown that spazzing is ineffective.  Reversing them and applying solid pressure while maintaining position and calmly explaining to them that you will only let progress if they attempt to apply proper technique usually works.  Talk them through technique if necessary, etc.

If a guy has been around and refuses to get with the program just use the time to practice your knee rides.

Then there are times when two guys just get pissed at each other.  Ive never fought anyone while training but have seen it happen 2 or 3 times.  Each time it was pretty hilarious.

10 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 20495

I generally consider it my fault for not defending myself properly and try to make sure I’m blocking all strike possibilities from then on. I also then move to fatigue them from the top as best I can. Modified scarf hold with an arm under the back is one good way to do this.

10 days ago
12/24/10
Posts: 8887

When I have to deal with new spazzes I try to get on top and try to tap them with pressure. If they don’t tap I’ll wait for them to start wheezing and the choke them.

10 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 3462

Newbies get a lot of slack.  Most of the time, I just laugh and ask them to slow down. That works most of the time but spazzy guys with experience?  Not ok.  They get three strikes, then they're out.

 

 

 

Edited: 10 days ago
2/27/08
Posts: 1082
I slapped a guy across the face once after he knee rode my cheek for the second time in as many rolls. I'd pointed out the first time that I didn't want that again. It's so out of character for me and he could smash me easily in a fight. But he never did it again.

He was a semi-regular training partner - I'm sure I wouldn't have done it to a new guy.
10 days ago
1/5/17
Posts: 28

This mma guy who was a purple belt came to my open mat once and wanted to roll with me personally. I pretty much had my way with him for a few rounds so I decided to go into the playful mode and inverted and the first thing he does is headbutt me leaving me with a fattest black eye Ive ever had.

He gave me a fake apology right after then we started rolling again except now I went into murder mode. I ended up putting him in a omoplata crucifix then flip him on his head so that his body would flop over putting himself in a fullbody neckcrank and held him there for 2mins then rolled him back onto his back and reverse triangled the leaving hell out of him... 

Never had I been that mad in my life and for the most part Im usually Mousasi calm.

 

 

10 days ago
1/5/17
Posts: 29

As far as a spaz goes I usually blame myself for not protecting myself better instead of getting mad at them and tell myself I need to control them better while putting my face into safer positions as if I was on the street. 

Now if they are doing it to my students then Ill pull him aside and let him know he is hurting people because your ego is too big to allow yourself to play the game right. Which is causing you to rely on physical abilites in a technical game. You have to understand that youre going to lose a lot before you can win. I remind them to be calm before every roll. annnnd if that doesn't work, I toss him out.

10 days ago
3/18/02
Posts: 84546

happened once about 15 years ago I was a blue belt and showed up to a local club that just opened for a nogi roll.  Their "best" student I think thought I was a noob and when he was having trouble passing my guard, he started smashing my face with his shoulder over and over. 

I armbared him until I felt the pop.  

Edited: 9 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 404
I rarely lose my cool in life, let alone in jiu jitsu. Happened once. I was a blue belt and I was just coming off a rib injury so I was being selective with my training. This very spazzy and "crazy" character of a brown belt asked me to roll and when I denied him he said I am a brown belt, you are a blue belt, you have to roll with me and then started talking shit to me.

I put my gi back on fuming mad and rolled with him harder than I had ever rolled, including competition. I never rolled with ill will, but I did this time. I passed his guard and put as much shoulder pressure as I could on his face and he tapped.

All of this led to a blow out where a training partner, a very large brown belt, asked him 'who lit a fire under his ass' and to leave me alone. This caused them to get in a fist fight, where the large brown belt dropped down with a couple jabs and crazy brown belt called 911. This ultimately caused him to get kicked out of the academy. This guy actually punched himself in the face a couple times to make his bleeding look even worse before the cops came.
9 days ago
3/28/02
Posts: 6366
N5Z -

There is a big difference between a guy that has no clue what he is doing/is supposed to do and a guy who is being a dick.  

Its the instructors responsibility to watch the new guys and roll with them or assign them partners that are skilled and patient enough to work through any misconceptions.

A new guy who spazzes too much just needs to be shown that spazzing is ineffective.  Reversing them and applying solid pressure while maintaining position and calmly explaining to them that you will only let progress if they attempt to apply proper technique usually works.  Talk them through technique if necessary, etc.

If a guy has been around and refuses to get with the program just use the time to practice your knee rides.

Then there are times when two guys just get pissed at each other.  Ive never fought anyone while training but have seen it happen 2 or 3 times.  Each time it was pretty hilarious.

Isnt that why God created the Knee of the Belly and the Shoulder of Justice?!

9 days ago
12/30/02
Posts: 39
crazy stuff
9 days ago
2/26/07
Posts: 8074
ive only ever flipped out twice, usually even if the guy is a spaz ill just hang out and let him squeeze my head or whatever and work back to top position and squash him


the first time, i was the "senior" guy on a saturday morning and there was a total of 3 of us rolling-this kid (20-25) came in to watch and started talking about how he was interested in training and his grandpa taught him karate and he loved how martial arts were all about respect, yada yada yada-he wanted to train but i knew that was a no-go so i told him he could hang out and watch...so after our workout he asked me to show him a couple things and he just wouldnt let up, so i figured fine ill just show him the basic upa escape-i laid down and had him take mount, and right as the first words were coming out of my mouth he sucker punched me clean

ive probably never been so pissed off in my entire life, i hit the upa, jumped to knee on belly and dropped a 5 piece on him before he was screaming about tapping out...we all had fights coming up that month, and wouldnt ya know it? he came out to corner one of the guys fighting one of our guys-id been dojo stormed, probably the least skilled guy in history to ever have that happen to him lol


more recently i came in after the instruction part of class to roll, so i grabbed a smaller blue belt (didnt know he was a visitor at the time) to get a little warmup round in...so literally as the round is starting im playing a kinda sitting butterfly guard, kinda looking over and talking to a training partner when all the sudden i look back to see this guy fucking spin kick me in the face, then jump on me when i dropped from it-rattled the fuck outta me, and i proceeded to just double knee ride him for the rest of the round basically, i went knee on face for every single second i could for the last 5 and a half minutes of that round
9 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 3463
something like this happened to me just the other night. I was rolling with a guy who's been a white belt for years and would be a blue belt if he didn't keep hurting himself by being spazzy.

anyway, I probably shouldn't even have rolled with him since my leg is kind of messed up, but I figured, what the hell? moments later, I get punched in the face and I've hurt my leg again.

so I take a minute and say "hey, let's slow down, eh? I don't want to get hurt" and when we go again, he goes agro again immediately breaking grips with palm-strikes so I figure, what the hell? So I belly bump sweep and x-choke. sure, it was rough, but that's the game he wanted. So, he loses it and says "I'm outta here!" and somehow I calm him down and we go for another few minutes before we change partners.

Going with another guy, I glance over and see him and an older blue belt rolling, after which he just gets up and leaves. Later, I hear he was talking shit to the blue belt right to his face saying "you should be better for a blue belt" so the blue belt decided to just kick his ass too.

when I get home, I have an e-mail waiting for me saying all kinds of crazy stuff. The next day, I see the guy at the bus stop so I laugh as I say hello and walk by and he looks all embarrassed and pouty.

I'm honestly concerned for the guys mental health. A while before he had his hissy fit and left, he told me he'd gotten fired after getting into a fist fight with his boss. What can you do with people like that? I don't know.
8 days ago
4/29/08
Posts: 49

Not yet..  IM pretty mellow..

8 days ago
6/4/02
Posts: 18825

Army combative guy smashes this 14 yr old in our class after several warnings.  He always would say shit like “doesn’t work with strikes” and typical banter.

 I let the talk go for a while but when he smashed the kid I threw him mma gloves I had and told him to do whatever he wanted.

 I smashed him really bad.  He never came back.