David Jacobs' BJJGround Does anyone feel sport bjj....

7/20/19 4:37 AM
2/9/09
Posts: 9197

Gives a false sense of security or confidence to lower belts, Purple and under lets say.  

 

I feel like many sport bjj guys are so quick to pull guard, never start with strikes, avoid wrestling etc that all of this changes the game.

 

Im asking because some friends and I were talking and they (blue and purple respectively) were so confident they would win in a street fight against most random people...

 

I know its a very silly conversation to have but they’re both smaller-ish maybe 5’7”-5’9” and 170-175 max.  But by nature they aren’t very aggressive or tough people,  and I personally know their takedowns are terrible. 

 

With that said, I just feel like someday someone is going to have a rude awakening and possibly end up getting really hurt thinking they can handle themselves when they really can’t. 

 

 

7/20/19 4:44 AM
12/7/10
Posts: 161

Bjj ist going the way of all the martial arts.

Fake warriors who don't even know it.

 

I have nothing against the sport, I enjoy it and I have no interest in bjj for self defense or fighting, but people thinking they are bad asses because they train bjj are no better than the krav and systema guys with their heads stuck the sand.

7/20/19 9:04 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 4380

I know a sport BJJ black belt that got cocky with a guy at a bar and got put to sleep, there are definitely some folks who over estimate themselves

Edited: 7/20/19 9:09 AM
7/25/13
Posts: 10409

Unless a person has a lot of confidence as a street fighter due to winning a lot of street fights, their confidence in such matters is likely inaccurate to some extent.

7/20/19 9:33 AM
1/30/15
Posts: 310
I see it all the time from blues to blacks. We have this conversation often at the gym.
7/20/19 9:58 AM
12/21/04
Posts: 1970

Any type of martial arts or self-defense training can give a person a false sense of confidence. Confidence can be an important factor in avoiding or defusing confrontations but over confidence is probably never a good thing when it comes to surviving the streets and other real-world dangers. Two of the greatest BJJ practitioners of all time were killed in the streets (i.e., murdered). Not because they were overconfident but because the world can be a dangerous place. Three years after I achieved my black belt in BJJ I was almost killed when I was targeted for a gang initiation and struck from behind by a club like object. Luckily the blow didn't knock me out and I managed to escape with only a broken cheekbone. But yeah, it doesn't matter how much training or what type of training you have. The dangers are real, more or less so depending on where you live, what you do for work, and how you live your life.    

Edited: 7/20/19 5:16 PM
2/5/06
Posts: 3109

Agreed. 

But how would you stop my spider guard?

Edited: 7/20/19 6:20 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 34579

This is why I highly suggest students cross-train in either Taiji Plum Blossom Praying Mantis Kung Fu or SCARS.

 

 

7/20/19 6:17 PM
2/9/09
Posts: 9210
shen -

This is why I highly suggest students cross-train in either Taiji Plum Blossom Praying Mantis Kung Fu or SCARS.

Agree’d. Praying Mantis Kung Fu is legit

Edited: 7/20/19 6:32 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 34580
The Closed Guard - 
shen -

This is why I highly suggest students cross-train in either Taiji Plum Blossom Praying Mantis Kung Fu or SCARS.

Agree’d. Praying Mantis Kung Fu is legit

 

Quick flash of mantis claws and any street situation is OVER.

 

Edited: 7/20/19 6:43 PM
3/20/14
Posts: 881

Old story but a young judoka once disarmed a man (subsequently charged with attempted murder for stabbing a woman continuously) by using a quick entry to clinch, controlled the dudes weapon hand, put a key lock on him and threw him with some serious force, holding the guy in a knot till police arrived. He really had no specific SD training either; just a guy who enjoyed Judo (he was skilled BB though). This was not a fight per se, but he made good use of his hobby. Police here were blown away by his actions and honored him publicly.

Edited: 7/20/19 7:07 PM
2/14/19
Posts: 237

I like how the first and two most important skills needed to use BJJ in a fight are rarely taught in BJJ class.

1) Close the distance vs strikes without getting knocked out.

2) Takedowns

Edited: 7/20/19 7:52 PM
4/27/18
Posts: 1210

Never like this argument as its very difficult to surmise a specific answer from such a general question.

Whos the opponent? whos the sport guy?

couch potato who has zero training in his life and weighs close to the same as our theoretical sport bjj guy?

Chances of bjj getting knocked out before bjj guy can get it to the ground 1-3%.

Chances of our sport bjj guy winning when it hits the ground 99%.

opponent.- Current College football player weiging 240 pounds

chances of our 170 pd sport bjj guy getting knocked out before going to the ground 25%

chances of our bjj guy winning when it hits the ground. 50%. etc etc etc

 

 

 

7/20/19 8:02 PM
9/10/13
Posts: 1403

Everyone that trains has experience with new guys. Do you think those guys would beat you if punches became an option? Maybe I am delusional but I just don’t see it. I can think of the last ten people that joined where I train and those guys aren’t beating me in a fight. 

Edited: 7/22/19 1:37 AM
3/20/14
Posts: 882

If I fail to get the fight to the ground on my terms and end up on my can, my “guard” will consist of heel kicks to the chin, to the knees, going for the technical stand up and more pinchi tira guante y patadas a las rodias y piernas to manage the distance and try an other clinch entry. Good day gents.

7/20/19 8:49 PM
2/21/11
Posts: 6383
I am aware of the skills my ground game has equipped me with and feel that they are a massive asset in any type of combat situation but temper that with a healthy respect for a strong, aggressive person and the potential threat they could pose.
7/20/19 9:16 PM
2/9/09
Posts: 9211
pahulkster -

Everyone that trains has experience with new guys. Do you think those guys would beat you if punches became an option? Maybe I am delusional but I just don’t see it. I can think of the last ten people that joined where I train and those guys aren’t beating me in a fight. 

Maybe its my gym then but we have some new guys who join who are monsters. 

 

You also don’t know the skill set of some randoms. HS wreslting, some kind of athletic sport that makes them expolsive with strikes etc. 

 

If you’re wrestling everytime you train I guess I can see it...but MOST gyms I go to mostly everyone pulls guard or starts on knees

7/20/19 9:18 PM
2/9/09
Posts: 9212
Strangleu -

Never like this argument as its very difficult to surmise a specific answer from such a general question.

Whos the opponent? whos the sport guy?

couch potato who has zero training in his life and weighs close to the same as our theoretical sport bjj guy?

Chances of bjj getting knocked out before bjj guy can get it to the ground 1-3%.

Chances of our sport bjj guy winning when it hits the ground 99%.

opponent.- Current College football player weiging 240 pounds

chances of our 170 pd sport bjj guy getting knocked out before going to the ground 25%

chances of our bjj guy winning when it hits the ground. 50%. etc etc etc

 

 

 

25% ??? Come on man. You believe a sport bjj guy (random purple belt) whos 170 is going to take down a 240 pound football player? 

 

Id give it closer to 50/50

7/20/19 10:22 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 13631
Bot -

I like how the first and two most important skills needed to use BJJ in a fight are rarely taught in BJJ class.

1) Close the distance vs strikes without getting knocked out.

2) Takedowns

EGG-ZACK-LEE

7/20/19 10:59 PM
4/27/18
Posts: 1211
The Closed Guard -
pahulkster -

Everyone that trains has experience with new guys. Do you think those guys would beat you if punches became an option? Maybe I am delusional but I just don’t see it. I can think of the last ten people that joined where I train and those guys aren’t beating me in a fight. 

Maybe its my gym then but we have some new guys who join who are monsters. 

 

You also don’t know the skill set of some randoms. HS wreslting, some kind of athletic sport that makes them expolsive with strikes etc. 

 

If you’re wrestling everytime you train I guess I can see it...but MOST gyms I go to mostly everyone pulls guard or starts on knees

Must be your gym.

7/20/19 11:07 PM
2/9/09
Posts: 9215
Strangleu -
The Closed Guard -
pahulkster -

Everyone that trains has experience with new guys. Do you think those guys would beat you if punches became an option? Maybe I am delusional but I just don’t see it. I can think of the last ten people that joined where I train and those guys aren’t beating me in a fight. 

Maybe its my gym then but we have some new guys who join who are monsters. 

 

You also don’t know the skill set of some randoms. HS wreslting, some kind of athletic sport that makes them expolsive with strikes etc. 

 

If you’re wrestling everytime you train I guess I can see it...but MOST gyms I go to mostly everyone pulls guard or starts on knees

Must be your gym.

Or people have a false confidence....but I do live in a big D1 town so....

7/21/19 12:48 AM
8/15/07
Posts: 16423
pahulkster - 

Everyone that trains has experience with new guys. Do you think those guys would beat you if punches became an option? Maybe I am delusional but I just don’t see it. I can think of the last ten people that joined where I train and those guys aren’t beating me in a fight. 


I see experienced guys have problems with new folks all the time. Usually due to strength, speed, and mindset. It's not a skills issue. But the experienced BJJer has become accustomed to rolling in a particular sport way, and often has his hands full when the new guy doesn't conform to that pattern. New guy uses strength and speed to compensate, and doesn't know he's supposed to be flowing with the go, and that's when you see the experienced BJJer having to play catch up to match him. Add in punches and then you have a real problem.

BJJ has never emphasized physical attributes to the extent it should, and that's a large reason for this over-estimation of fighting ability.
7/21/19 8:50 AM
4/27/18
Posts: 1213
The Closed Guard -
Strangleu -
The Closed Guard -
pahulkster -

Everyone that trains has experience with new guys. Do you think those guys would beat you if punches became an option? Maybe I am delusional but I just don’t see it. I can think of the last ten people that joined where I train and those guys aren’t beating me in a fight. 

Maybe its my gym then but we have some new guys who join who are monsters. 

 

You also don’t know the skill set of some randoms. HS wreslting, some kind of athletic sport that makes them expolsive with strikes etc. 

 

If you’re wrestling everytime you train I guess I can see it...but MOST gyms I go to mostly everyone pulls guard or starts on knees

Must be your gym.

Or people have a false confidence....but I do live in a big D1 town so....

Then it’s just you

Edited: 7/21/19 9:36 AM
5/17/13
Posts: 12541
Soul Gravy -
pahulkster - 

Everyone that trains has experience with new guys. Do you think those guys would beat you if punches became an option? Maybe I am delusional but I just don’t see it. I can think of the last ten people that joined where I train and those guys aren’t beating me in a fight. 


I see experienced guys have problems with new folks all the time. Usually due to strength, speed, and mindset. It's not a skills issue. But the experienced BJJer has become accustomed to rolling in a particular sport way, and often has his hands full when the new guy doesn't conform to that pattern. New guy uses strength and speed to compensate, and doesn't know he's supposed to be flowing with the go, and that's when you see the experienced BJJer having to play catch up to match him. Add in punches and then you have a real problem.

BJJ has never emphasized physical attributes to the extent it should, and that's a large reason for this over-estimation of fighting ability.

I see it all the time, I think the issue is most people become accustomed to bjj vs bjj. You’re getting the reactions of a bjj guy...but in a street fight the reactions, intensity, etc changes and you’re getting different responses than you’re used to. 

 

I consider myself an OK hobby purple belt. I could tell you there are tons of untrained people that would kick my ass. Half my fault, half my gyms fault. 

 

Edited: 7/21/19 10:42 AM
7/30/03
Posts: 7220
GaspareBJJ -
Soul Gravy -
pahulkster - 

Everyone that trains has experience with new guys. Do you think those guys would beat you if punches became an option? Maybe I am delusional but I just don’t see it. I can think of the last ten people that joined where I train and those guys aren’t beating me in a fight. 


I see experienced guys have problems with new folks all the time. Usually due to strength, speed, and mindset. It's not a skills issue. But the experienced BJJer has become accustomed to rolling in a particular sport way, and often has his hands full when the new guy doesn't conform to that pattern. New guy uses strength and speed to compensate, and doesn't know he's supposed to be flowing with the go, and that's when you see the experienced BJJer having to play catch up to match him. Add in punches and then you have a real problem.

BJJ has never emphasized physical attributes to the extent it should, and that's a large reason for this over-estimation of fighting ability.

I see it all the time, I think the issue is most people become accustomed to bjj vs bjj. You’re getting the reactions of a bjj guy...but in a street fight the reactions, intensity, etc changes and you’re getting different responses than you’re used to. 

 

I consider myself an OK hobby purple belt. I could tell you there are tons of untrained people that would kick my ass. Half my fault, half my gyms fault. 

 

This is a solid post. It’s one thing to roll with a big dude and play guard when he is playing to pass. You simply protect your knee line and look for sweeps or maybe a submission. It’s a different game when the big guy is dropping hammerfist or driving elbows into your face and throat to break your clinch so he can drop some more hammerfists. It should be second nature to deal with the untrained opponent and results might not be pretty but still Royce vs Severn like in results. But with the sport only schools today the results would likely be much, much different.