David Jacobs' BJJGround Does training No Gi make you the best No Gi?

2/12/19 6:42 AM
11/2/12
Posts: 188

https://youtu.be/VX37a_RGW84

blue please

 

2/12/19 6:55 AM
2/9/09
Posts: 8584
Steve_73 -

I reckon the no-gi and gi game are now very very different. The gi game is berimbolos whereas the no-gi game is submission orientated and leg-locks are really important.

I don't think many competitors will be successful in both the gi and no-gi.

But most are. Look at the teams that are mainly just no gi guys, tons of Renzos guys and all of 10p. They are training a no gi style everyday, Yet they do not win any big tournaments (short of Gordon) and lose against guys who are spliting their time.

 

Im not very good, but I think gi has helped my no gi game, I think there are small subtle differences you don’t realize. 

2/12/19 8:13 AM
12/1/00
Posts: 17048
Steve_73 - 

I reckon the no-gi and gi game are now very very different. The gi game is berimbolos whereas the no-gi game is submission orientated and leg-locks are really important.

I don't think many competitors will be successful in both the gi and no-gi.


I don't think they are that different, and up to the last ADCC, competitors were still proving you can be successful in both.

Sure you have no gi guys that just spam leg locks, and you have gi guys that just play lapel guard or spider guard.

However, imo, guard passing, armlocks, taking the back and choking, etc, win at the highest levels over the no gi leg lock game- and those are all stuff you can learn while training gi (as well as no gi).

In a sense, I think a lot of us have been tricked by the No Gi "revolution", and convinced that the gi is some evil money making scheme for instructors (if Eddie Bravo is to be believed..and his thousands of 10th planet students believe him). Or, that wearing silly pajamas is so lame compared to doing super cool sub only events with reaping and heel hooks.
2/12/19 9:57 AM
10/23/09
Posts: 3269

Nogi only seems more submission oriented because of the rules of nogi tournaments and the inherent limitations of nogi grappling (I don't mean limitations in a bad way, only that the space of possible techniques is significantly smaller)

2/12/19 10:32 AM
10/14/06
Posts: 930

The no gi "revolution" didn't begin with Eddie's 10th Planet system imo. The real contribution Eddie gave to the no gi community is EBI. That event showcased Danaher and really started the revolution.

Looking at ADCC or other competition results is not the best metric in my opinion because there are so many factors that goes to competition results. Yes, Danaher has been teaching for a while and you didn't hear anything about his coaching outside of the MMA context. But that was an era with hardly any no-gi competitions outside grapplers quest and naga. You couldn't be a professional no-gi grappler and make a living before. In the last four years, no gi competitions have exploded in popularity. There is much more money to be made in no gi competition.Success in these big tournaments lead to seminars and private lessons. DDS guys and Craig Jones appear to be giving seminars almost every weekend. This has provided Danaher with crops of new students willing to train full time, follow his system, and compete regularly. Danaher's classes used to be MMA fighters and business professionals. Now he has a stable of no-gi professionals. 

 

2/12/19 10:37 AM
2/9/09
Posts: 8586
ogjune -

The no gi "revolution" didn't begin with Eddie's 10th Planet system imo. The real contribution Eddie gave to the no gi community is EBI. That event showcased Danaher and really started the revolution.

Looking at ADCC or other competition results is not the best metric in my opinion because there are so many factors that goes to competition results. Yes, Danaher has been teaching for a while and you didn't hear anything about his coaching outside of the MMA context. But that was an era with hardly any no-gi competitions outside grapplers quest and naga. You couldn't be a professional no-gi grappler and make a living before. In the last four years, no gi competitions have exploded in popularity. There is much more money to be made in no gi competition.Success in these big tournaments lead to seminars and private lessons. DDS guys and Craig Jones appear to be giving seminars almost every weekend. This has provided Danaher with crops of new students willing to train full time, follow his system, and compete regularly. Danaher's classes used to be MMA fighters and business professionals. Now he has a stable of no-gi professionals. 

 

I have to disagree, to me ADCC has always been the biggest competition, neck and neck with Gi Worlds. Either way, all tournaments seem to all be won by full time Gi guys (aside from Gordon) 

2/12/19 12:33 PM
2/9/09
Posts: 8587
PerformativeGayBDSM -

From the perspective of a lower skilled player in all this stuff, you train the one you want to be good at, or both if neither is paramount or you just want to be well rounded.

I say this because when I started my wrestling background made no gi easy for me, or as easy as it can be when you start out. I was rarely submitted by anyone other that the brown belt instructor or a couple of his purples-this was 16 years ago in Reno, NV so this was the only bjj school in town at the time. In a gi it was a very different story so I was drawn to no gi because I'm little bitch like that.

A few years of just gi because I was tired of getting owned in one and I went to a no gi class last night for the first time in a long while. I was getting tapped by blue belts and my go to shit guys were just rolling out of. It was kind of weird tbh, so my guess is that yes, if you only train one you will suck at the other and I am calling bullshit on these guys who win ADCC only training no gi once a week.

That sounds like total brazilian traditional gi propaganda to me. Those guys are training no gi way more than once a week.

And now I welcome all the people who are actually good at this shit to tell me how I'm wrong. Seriously, this is an educational forum for me, so educate away gi players.

They’re training it a bit, but even if they split the time evenly, its still 50% less than the DDS/10P

2/12/19 1:36 PM
10/14/06
Posts: 931
The Closed Guard -
ogjune -

The no gi "revolution" didn't begin with Eddie's 10th Planet system imo. The real contribution Eddie gave to the no gi community is EBI. That event showcased Danaher and really started the revolution.

Looking at ADCC or other competition results is not the best metric in my opinion because there are so many factors that goes to competition results. Yes, Danaher has been teaching for a while and you didn't hear anything about his coaching outside of the MMA context. But that was an era with hardly any no-gi competitions outside grapplers quest and naga. You couldn't be a professional no-gi grappler and make a living before. In the last four years, no gi competitions have exploded in popularity. There is much more money to be made in no gi competition.Success in these big tournaments lead to seminars and private lessons. DDS guys and Craig Jones appear to be giving seminars almost every weekend. This has provided Danaher with crops of new students willing to train full time, follow his system, and compete regularly. Danaher's classes used to be MMA fighters and business professionals. Now he has a stable of no-gi professionals. 

 

I have to disagree, to me ADCC has always been the biggest competition, neck and neck with Gi Worlds. Either way, all tournaments seem to all be won by full time Gi guys (aside from Gordon) 

I never said ADCC wasn't the biggest competition, so I don't know exactly what you're disagreeing with. 

The professional BJJ competitor in the past competed primarily in the gi. ADCC is every 2 years so they would take off the gi to train for a camp for a few weeks. No Gi competitions were few and far between unless you did some NAGA in the midwest. IBJJF didn't even have a no-gi Worlds until a few years ago. There was no real incentive to be a fulltime no-gi practitioner unless your goal was MMA. Now, there are a bunch of professional no-gi competition opportunities from EBI, Polaris, Kasai, F2W, etc. for a no-gi competitor to make a decent money and an actual living. 

2/12/19 2:39 PM
9/7/17
Posts: 413
What I don't get is why people want to separate heel hooks and honeyhole/4-11/saddle from the rest of grappling.

I think the tendency to people to talk about it as if it's something else is mostly coming from clickbait articles on BJJ 'news' websites, Flograppling, and people that just don't train with a lot of heel hooks.

Danaher and his guys are the first ones to say that their intent was never to have such a hyper-focus on leg locks. They saw an area where they could have an edge because many schools overlooked that aspect of the game. They do well with leg locks but their best guys are complete grapplers. And the ones that aren't are striving to be.

It's all just grappling. I like the philosophy of you using your entire body to attack their entire body. Personally I've always preferred chokes over arm locks or leg locks. But I think it's detrimental for people to think of leg locks as this 'other thing' when it's just another one of the many aspects of grappling.

I'm not trying to derail the thread here and I think this is related.

Source BJJ Heroes: Out of Gordon Ryan's last 34 wins by submission (so the start of 2017 to now) 31 of them are either strangles or arm locks. Only 3 out of those 34 subs are leg locks.
Edited: 2/12/19 3:04 PM
9/7/17
Posts: 414
@kying418 The no-gi game honestly did not see a bigger shift from the gi game until around 2016. 2015 saw Eddie Cummings and Garry Tonon make their presence known on a bigger stage. Gordon Ryan made himself known in 2016. Honestly not many people bothered wanting to learn what they were doing until 2017. Maybe 2016 or 2015 if you were a massive fan of those guys. Up until recently I'd say Marcelo had the biggest influence on the no-gi meta game with his style of 'sweep and then work to pass towards the back, or catch a choke or an arm on the way there.'

I'll get push back on this but IMO Craig Jones had a bigger influence on the larger grappling community than anyone else about the importance of having a fully developed lower body submission game. He trained nothing in the gi for a full year leading up to ADCC and used an inverted heel hook to sweep Leandro Lo and sink the RNC.

Unlike Danaher's social media posts and even the DDS crew itself, which rubbed some old timers the wrong way...everyone found Craig Jones' story at ADCC to be that of a lovable underdog. Craig was the first high level competitor having success with the modern leg lock game to drop an instructional on it in December 2017 called Down Under Leg Attacks. I respectfully submit that as the moment that most of the BJJ community realized they needed to incorporate the modern leg game for submitting, defending, and advancing position.

Before then I think there was still an element of "it's just a few guys that are hyper-specializing in this area." I remember being in a big group text in 2015. When Tonon and Cummings lost their quarter-finals matches at ADCC that year the texts flooded in (including from me) that said "thank god that shit doesn't work so we don't have to learn it."

I'm a choke guy. But you can't do an advanced division no-gi anymore or go into a room where heel hooks are allowed and not know them. You'll get subbed relentlessly. And the best way to defend them is to learn how to do them. So it's not even about being obsessed with them. But you do have to know them in 2019.

Especially the 4-11/saddle position. It's forever changed the game. Like the Marcelo's seatbelt grips, the x-guard, deep half guard, the darce, the Marcelotine, the berimbolo, the worm guard. The 4-11 has made an impact and it's here to stay.
Edited: 2/12/19 3:08 PM
2/19/18
Posts: 50
kying418 -
Steve_73 - 

I reckon the no-gi and gi game are now very very different. The gi game is berimbolos whereas the no-gi game is submission orientated and leg-locks are really important.

I don't think many competitors will be successful in both the gi and no-gi.


I don't think they are that different, and up to the last ADCC, competitors were still proving you can be successful in both.

Sure you have no gi guys that just spam leg locks, and you have gi guys that just play lapel guard or spider guard.

However, imo, guard passing, armlocks, taking the back and choking, etc, win at the highest levels over the no gi leg lock game- and those are all stuff you can learn while training gi (as well as no gi).

In a sense, I think a lot of us have been tricked by the No Gi "revolution", and convinced that the gi is some evil money making scheme for instructors (if Eddie Bravo is to be believed..and his thousands of 10th planet students believe him). Or, that wearing silly pajamas is so lame compared to doing super cool sub only events with reaping and heel hooks.

I think it comes down to positional control.  Fabio Gurgel talks about it here when asked about Eddie Cummings.  https://youtu.be/0w80xxroX1A

 

This is a large reason IMO that DDS has done so well.  Danaher says he demands perfect fundamentals, after that guys can persue whatever systems they choose.  Gordon is very, very good positionally.  He seems to be able to use any of the "systems" because he's always in attacking position.

He also trained Gi thru at least purple belt and has heavy Gi influence from his instructor/s.  Pointing to him as a case for succuss of No-Gi doesn't fly IMO.  He probably took what he needed from the Gi then moved to straight No-Gi.  Alot of things went right for him to get so good so quick.

2/12/19 3:33 PM
9/7/17
Posts: 415
kying418 - 
Steve_73 - 

I reckon the no-gi and gi game are now very very different. The gi game is berimbolos whereas the no-gi game is submission orientated and leg-locks are really important.

I don't think many competitors will be successful in both the gi and no-gi.


I don't think they are that different, and up to the last ADCC, competitors were still proving you can be successful in both.

Sure you have no gi guys that just spam leg locks, and you have gi guys that just play lapel guard or spider guard.

However, imo, guard passing, armlocks, taking the back and choking, etc, win at the highest levels over the no gi leg lock game- and those are all stuff you can learn while training gi (as well as no gi).

In a sense, I think a lot of us have been tricked by the No Gi "revolution", and convinced that the gi is some evil money making scheme for instructors (if Eddie Bravo is to be believed..and his thousands of 10th planet students believe him). Or, that wearing silly pajamas is so lame compared to doing super cool sub only events with reaping and heel hooks.

Absolutely. You will never be able to win at the highest levels without being able to sweep, pass, take the back, etc. Even Danaher says among his own top guys that leg locks don't decide who wins. He said that whoever gets the front headlock position almost always wins in the gym.

But I don't see how you can implement strong sweeps, passing, back attacks, chokes, or arm locks against people that know the modern leg lock game without knowing it yourself. And Ironically the two strongest heel hook positions don't even come from reaps. But I don't see how you could really learn the modern leg game in the gi unless you have a professor that's fine with you reaping and doing heel hooks in the gi.

We have posted together on many of the same forums for many years and we have agreed on most things. I know you follow Marcelo's philosophy of training 50/50 between gi and no-gi. So do I. With your last paragraph, I don't think that's what is actually going on but it's easy to feel like it is. There are a lot of us that love training in this current no-gi climate, and we still love training in the gi also. We don't think the gi is evil, and we don't think it's a money making scheme or a conspiracy. I believe we are the silent majority.
Edited: 2/12/19 4:01 PM
11/25/09
Posts: 4377
The Closed Guard -
Steve_73 -

I reckon the no-gi and gi game are now very very different. The gi game is berimbolos whereas the no-gi game is submission orientated and leg-locks are really important.

I don't think many competitors will be successful in both the gi and no-gi.

But most are. Look at the teams that are mainly just no gi guys, tons of Renzos guys and all of 10p. They are training a no gi style everyday, Yet they do not win any big tournaments (short of Gordon) and lose against guys who are spliting their time.

 

Im not very good, but I think gi has helped my no gi game, I think there are small subtle differences you don’t realize. 

The biggest subtle difference you’re not recongizing is they are not losing to average jerk offs like you and OP, they are losing to the literal .01% of elite grapplers.

“They’re not winning any big tournaments” 

 

Oh you mean ADCC the most prestigious tournament in the entire word? Yeah, we haven’t had a guy win that. Who from your school has won that? As in, someone you’ve actually trained with/under, not just some loose affiliation from 1000 miles away. Go ahead, we can wait. What a Goof.

So many hilarious comments from people who don’t compete, and if they do, it’s in the masters 3 division and likely not even at black belt lol. Especially OP’s, 

“10th planet had 70 guys compete, no one won.”

 

Theres only 6 weight classes on the worlds most elite grappling QUALIFIER and you act like it’s a local naga in whatever shithole part of the country you live in. 

 

My teammate Keith took 2nd at 66kg in BOTH trials, and Jon Blank medaled as well. 

 

Please enlighten us how well everyone from YOUR team did at the trials...

Edited: 2/12/19 3:47 PM
2/9/09
Posts: 8592
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2/12/19 3:50 PM
2/9/09
Posts: 8593
bjjlurker -
kying418 -
Steve_73 - 

I reckon the no-gi and gi game are now very very different. The gi game is berimbolos whereas the no-gi game is submission orientated and leg-locks are really important.

I don't think many competitors will be successful in both the gi and no-gi.


I don't think they are that different, and up to the last ADCC, competitors were still proving you can be successful in both.

Sure you have no gi guys that just spam leg locks, and you have gi guys that just play lapel guard or spider guard.

However, imo, guard passing, armlocks, taking the back and choking, etc, win at the highest levels over the no gi leg lock game- and those are all stuff you can learn while training gi (as well as no gi).

In a sense, I think a lot of us have been tricked by the No Gi "revolution", and convinced that the gi is some evil money making scheme for instructors (if Eddie Bravo is to be believed..and his thousands of 10th planet students believe him). Or, that wearing silly pajamas is so lame compared to doing super cool sub only events with reaping and heel hooks.

I think it comes down to positional control.  Fabio Gurgel talks about it here when asked about Eddie Cummings.  https://youtu.be/0w80xxroX1A

 

This is a large reason IMO that DDS has done so well.  Danaher says he demands perfect fundamentals, after that guys can persue whatever systems they choose.  Gordon is very, very good positionally.  He seems to be able to use any of the "systems" because he's always in attacking position.

He also trained Gi thru at least purple belt and has heavy Gi influence from his instructor/s.  Pointing to him as a case for succuss of No-Gi doesn't fly IMO.  He probably took what he needed from the Gi then moved to straight No-Gi.  Alot of things went right for him to get so good so quick.

All good points. 

2/12/19 4:16 PM
9/7/17
Posts: 416
bjjlurker - 
kying418 -
Steve_73 - 

I reckon the no-gi and gi game are now very very different. The gi game is berimbolos whereas the no-gi game is submission orientated and leg-locks are really important.

I don't think many competitors will be successful in both the gi and no-gi.


I don't think they are that different, and up to the last ADCC, competitors were still proving you can be successful in both.

Sure you have no gi guys that just spam leg locks, and you have gi guys that just play lapel guard or spider guard.

However, imo, guard passing, armlocks, taking the back and choking, etc, win at the highest levels over the no gi leg lock game- and those are all stuff you can learn while training gi (as well as no gi).

In a sense, I think a lot of us have been tricked by the No Gi "revolution", and convinced that the gi is some evil money making scheme for instructors (if Eddie Bravo is to be believed..and his thousands of 10th planet students believe him). Or, that wearing silly pajamas is so lame compared to doing super cool sub only events with reaping and heel hooks.

I think it comes down to positional control.  Fabio Gurgel talks about it here when asked about Eddie Cummings.  https://youtu.be/0w80xxroX1A

 

This is a large reason IMO that DDS has done so well.  Danaher says he demands perfect fundamentals, after that guys can persue whatever systems they choose.  Gordon is very, very good positionally.  He seems to be able to use any of the "systems" because he's always in attacking position.

He also trained Gi thru at least purple belt and has heavy Gi influence from his instructor/s.  Pointing to him as a case for succuss of No-Gi doesn't fly IMO.  He probably took what he needed from the Gi then moved to straight No-Gi.  Alot of things went right for him to get so good so quick.


This is all solid. They learn the basics first. After that people can pursue what they like.

They have also done a good job of finding a few very strong pathways to victory that don't follow the traditional sweep-pass-submit direction. Again it's nothing all that new or specific to the DDS. In the early 10's and even the late 00's there were grapplers using leg locks to sweep, kimuras as a grip to advance position, or front headlocks/guillotines/brabos to submit without fully passing or using them to attack the back.

So Danaher's whole idea of 'control leading to submission' as opposed to 'position before submission' is not a totally novel concept. And even if they aren't the only ones to do so I think he and his guys have done a good job of emphasizing that approach and fleshing out a lot of specific techniques from those concepts.
2/12/19 4:20 PM
9/7/17
Posts: 417
BTTMike - 
The Closed Guard -
Steve_73 -

I reckon the no-gi and gi game are now very very different. The gi game is berimbolos whereas the no-gi game is submission orientated and leg-locks are really important.

I don't think many competitors will be successful in both the gi and no-gi.

But most are. Look at the teams that are mainly just no gi guys, tons of Renzos guys and all of 10p. They are training a no gi style everyday, Yet they do not win any big tournaments (short of Gordon) and lose against guys who are spliting their time.

 

Im not very good, but I think gi has helped my no gi game, I think there are small subtle differences you don’t realize. 

The biggest subtle difference you’re not recongizing is they are not losing to average jerk offs like you and OP, they are losing to the literal .01% of elite grapplers.

“They’re not winning any big tournaments” 

 

Oh you mean ADCC the most prestigious tournament in the entire word? Yeah, we haven’t had a guy win that. Who from your school has won that? As in, someone you’ve actually trained with/under, not just some loose affiliation from 1000 miles away. Go ahead, we can wait. What a Goof.

So many hilarious comments from people who don’t compete, and if they do, it’s in the masters 3 division and likely not even at black belt lol. Especially OP’s, 

“10th planet had 70 guys compete, no one won.”

 

Theres only 6 weight classes on the worlds most elite grappling QUALIFIER and you act like it’s a local naga in whatever shithole part of the country you live in. 

 

My teammate Keith took 2nd at 66kg in BOTH trials, and Jon Blank medaled as well. 

 

Please enlighten us how well everyone from YOUR team did at the trials...


10p is definitely unfairly hated on at this point in time. You guys have some killers. I believe at the ADCC Trials you guys had at least one person hit the quarter finals at every division.

And Keith Krikorian is a monster. I haven't seen much of Jon Blank before this weekend but I've known Keith for a while now. He's really flying under the radar.

I figured people would bother to look into Keith since this is his 2nd ADCC trials finals appearance (with all subs leading to the finals) in the past 6 months. But no one is saying much about him. It's disappointing. He did better against Nicky Ryan than he's getting credit for.
2/12/19 5:00 PM
2/19/18
Posts: 51

Nicky Ryan was very impressive, I thought he'd have more problems.  I think he's getting better very quickly.  What are his chances of medaling at ADCC?  I wouldn't bet against him.

The Rotolo's showed great passing at the East coast trials and I saw that they didn't train leg locks at all for that one. 

Tye seemed a little better, would have liked to see Nicky vs him but he tapped the guy that beat him, probably would have tapped him too.  

2/12/19 6:22 PM
9/7/17
Posts: 418
bjjlurker - 

Nicky Ryan was very impressive, I thought he'd have more problems.  I think he's getting better very quickly.  What are his chances of medaling at ADCC?  I wouldn't bet against him.

The Rotolo's showed great passing at the East coast trials and I saw that they didn't train leg locks at all for that one. 

Tye seemed a little better, would have liked to see Nicky vs him but he tapped the guy that beat him, probably would have tapped him too.  


I think Nicky Ryan will make the podium. Cobrinha (if he competes) and Paulo Miyao are my top 2 picks. Besides them I don't see anyone giving Nicky Ryan too many problems, although I'd like to see Nicky vs Bruno Frazatto.

66kg is in an interesting place. There's a lot of room for talent in a division where the top placers were somewhat easy picks. After 2013, a flood of talent that regularly made the at least the semi-finals all retired, moved to MMA, or stepped away from ADCC. Ie. Rafa Mendes, Tanquinho, Justin Rader, Jeff Glover, and Joao Miyao.

The field is open for a lot of new blood to make their names. Nicky Ryan has a great shot. Nicky's technical chops are up there with the best at 66kg. The biggest obstacles for Nicky are going to be physical strength of grown men and some veteran strategy from vets like Cobrinha and Paulo.
2/12/19 8:02 PM
9/7/17
Posts: 419
slick_mcfavorite - 

I think it's as simple as predominantly gi players make up the vastly larger pool of competitors. It kinda skews your examples if the grappling community isn't split more evenly when it comes to training in only one or the other. I personally think just grappling with quality instruction and training partners produces quality grapplers no matter what they're wearing. 


So much of this.

RGA is the only team I know of with a dedicated no-gi only program that is run in the same way that big time BJJ programs have been run across the rest of the world that split their time between gi and no-gi season (Atos, Alliance, GB, TLI, etc.)
2/12/19 9:24 PM
2/9/09
Posts: 8595
mata_leaos -
BTTMike - 
The Closed Guard -
Steve_73 -

I reckon the no-gi and gi game are now very very different. The gi game is berimbolos whereas the no-gi game is submission orientated and leg-locks are really important.

I don't think many competitors will be successful in both the gi and no-gi.

But most are. Look at the teams that are mainly just no gi guys, tons of Renzos guys and all of 10p. They are training a no gi style everyday, Yet they do not win any big tournaments (short of Gordon) and lose against guys who are spliting their time.

 

Im not very good, but I think gi has helped my no gi game, I think there are small subtle differences you don’t realize. 

The biggest subtle difference you’re not recongizing is they are not losing to average jerk offs like you and OP, they are losing to the literal .01% of elite grapplers.

“They’re not winning any big tournaments” 

 

Oh you mean ADCC the most prestigious tournament in the entire word? Yeah, we haven’t had a guy win that. Who from your school has won that? As in, someone you’ve actually trained with/under, not just some loose affiliation from 1000 miles away. Go ahead, we can wait. What a Goof.

So many hilarious comments from people who don’t compete, and if they do, it’s in the masters 3 division and likely not even at black belt lol. Especially OP’s, 

“10th planet had 70 guys compete, no one won.”

 

Theres only 6 weight classes on the worlds most elite grappling QUALIFIER and you act like it’s a local naga in whatever shithole part of the country you live in. 

 

My teammate Keith took 2nd at 66kg in BOTH trials, and Jon Blank medaled as well. 

 

Please enlighten us how well everyone from YOUR team did at the trials...


10p is definitely unfairly hated on at this point in time. You guys have some killers. I believe at the ADCC Trials you guys had at least one person hit the quarter finals at every division.

And Keith Krikorian is a monster. I haven't seen much of Jon Blank before this weekend but I've known Keith for a while now. He's really flying under the radar.

I figured people would bother to look into Keith since this is his 2nd ADCC trials finals appearance (with all subs leading to the finals) in the past 6 months. But no one is saying much about him. It's disappointing. He did better against Nicky Ryan than he's getting credit for.

I agree PJ Barch is an absolute monster

2/12/19 9:56 PM
10/23/09
Posts: 3270
mata_leaos -
bjjlurker - 

Nicky Ryan was very impressive, I thought he'd have more problems.  I think he's getting better very quickly.  What are his chances of medaling at ADCC?  I wouldn't bet against him.

The Rotolo's showed great passing at the East coast trials and I saw that they didn't train leg locks at all for that one. 

Tye seemed a little better, would have liked to see Nicky vs him but he tapped the guy that beat him, probably would have tapped him too.  


I think Nicky Ryan will make the podium. Cobrinha (if he competes) and Paulo Miyao are my top 2 picks. Besides them I don't see anyone giving Nicky Ryan too many problems, although I'd like to see Nicky vs Bruno Frazatto.

66kg is in an interesting place. There's a lot of room for talent in a division where the top placers were somewhat easy picks. After 2013, a flood of talent that regularly made the at least the semi-finals all retired, moved to MMA, or stepped away from ADCC. Ie. Rafa Mendes, Tanquinho, Justin Rader, Jeff Glover, and Joao Miyao.

The field is open for a lot of new blood to make their names. Nicky Ryan has a great shot. Nicky's technical chops are up there with the best at 66kg. The biggest obstacles for Nicky are going to be physical strength of grown men and some veteran strategy from vets like Cobrinha and Paulo.

He'll have to fight Ethan Crenilston in the second round because they're teammates. Gianni will probably be there and do well. Gianni beat Ethan at Kasai and Ethan is probably better than Nicky. Geo Martinez will be there, and while Nicky beat him by referee decision once, I'm not sure how it would go with different rules.

2/12/19 10:13 PM
12/1/00
Posts: 17049
^ I think Cobrinha's son, if he qualifies or gets invited will have a decent chance at beating Nicky.
Edited: 2/12/19 10:18 PM
12/1/00
Posts: 17050
"Oh you mean ADCC the most prestigious tournament in the entire word? Yeah, we haven't had a guy win that. Who from your school has won that? As in, someone you've actually trained with/under, not just some loose affiliation from 1000 miles away. Go ahead, we can wait. What a Goof."

If you are talking to me - my direct teacher knows a thing or two about No Gi, and has won a few times.

Doesn't make my opinion better or worse- I simply think people would be better at no gi if they split their training and trained in the gi as well.
2/12/19 11:17 PM
9/7/17
Posts: 421
Muffinho - 
mata_leaos -
bjjlurker - 

Nicky Ryan was very impressive, I thought he'd have more problems.  I think he's getting better very quickly.  What are his chances of medaling at ADCC?  I wouldn't bet against him.

The Rotolo's showed great passing at the East coast trials and I saw that they didn't train leg locks at all for that one. 

Tye seemed a little better, would have liked to see Nicky vs him but he tapped the guy that beat him, probably would have tapped him too.  


I think Nicky Ryan will make the podium. Cobrinha (if he competes) and Paulo Miyao are my top 2 picks. Besides them I don't see anyone giving Nicky Ryan too many problems, although I'd like to see Nicky vs Bruno Frazatto.

66kg is in an interesting place. There's a lot of room for talent in a division where the top placers were somewhat easy picks. After 2013, a flood of talent that regularly made the at least the semi-finals all retired, moved to MMA, or stepped away from ADCC. Ie. Rafa Mendes, Tanquinho, Justin Rader, Jeff Glover, and Joao Miyao.

The field is open for a lot of new blood to make their names. Nicky Ryan has a great shot. Nicky's technical chops are up there with the best at 66kg. The biggest obstacles for Nicky are going to be physical strength of grown men and some veteran strategy from vets like Cobrinha and Paulo.

He'll have to fight Ethan Crenilston in the second round because they're teammates. Gianni will probably be there and do well. Gianni beat Ethan at Kasai and Ethan is probably better than Nicky. Geo Martinez will be there, and while Nicky beat him by referee decision once, I'm not sure how it would go with different rules.


I forgot about Gianni. I don't subscribe to the MMA/BJJ math that because Gianni beat Ethan and Ethan is better than Nicky, that it means Gianni will beat Nicky. I would probably favor Gianni over Nicky right now but not on the grounds that Gianni beat Ethan he beat Ethan.

Ethan is maybe my personal favorite grappler at the moment but I think Nicky could beat him in a rematch.

Nicky's growth since the 2017 ADCC is pretty spectacular but we'll have to wait until this fall to see it.

@kying418 I didn't realize Cobrinha's son would be there. Do you know if Cobrinha plans on entering again? Could his son take his place? I know ADCC tends to not invite anyone that hasn't placed at their events before or won the trials. But I imagine if Cobrinha wanted his son in there instead of him that they'd probably allow it.