David Jacobs' BJJGround Does training No Gi make you the best No Gi?

2/13/19 12:34 AM
12/1/00
Posts: 17051
^ I have no inside scoop in regards to Cobrinha's son- I thought I read somewhere that he was going to try to qualify for it (I could be wrong though)
2/13/19 1:26 AM
2/28/03
Posts: 47321

Results are the only thing that matters.  We can have excuses but the podium is all that counts 

2/13/19 6:33 AM
2/9/09
Posts: 8596
kying418 - ^ I think Cobrinha's son, if he qualifies or gets invited will have a decent chance at beating Nicky.

He beat him once

2/13/19 6:38 AM
10/23/09
Posts: 3271

Cobrinha's son (Kennedy) is doing the trials in Brazil (I think the weekend before Pans, but I'm not certain).

2/13/19 7:16 AM
2/19/18
Posts: 52

I wonder who the invites at 66 will be? 

 

Calestine beat Gianni but came up short at both trials.  I would think skipping the trials shows a lack of interest unless you're a shoe in for an invite, you've medaled in the past.

2/13/19 10:05 AM
9/7/17
Posts: 423
kying418 - ^ I have no inside scoop in regards to Cobrinha's son- I thought I read somewhere that he was going to try to qualify for it (I could be wrong though)

I think you're right and that he's going to do the South American trials.
2/13/19 10:16 AM
9/7/17
Posts: 424
bjjlurker - 

I wonder who the invites at 66 will be? 

 

Calestine beat Gianni but came up short at both trials.  I would think skipping the trials shows a lack of interest unless you're a shoe in for an invite, you've medaled in the past.


This.

Yeah they don't like to invite people that don't do their trials or haven't medaled in the past. Some people sort of have permanent-invite status. Baret Yoshida comes to mind. I think he's been invited to every single one besides the very first one. I know Lovato Jr was asked to sit out in 2005 the day of (for some weird reason) and in exchange they said he'd have an invite for life.

It's a strange weight class now with a lot of gaps.

Right now for certain we've got: Cobrinha, Crelinsten, Nicky, Zaur Akhmedov, and Geo Martinez confirmed he's been invited. Baret Yoshida will surely be there. I would think Paulo Miyao and Bruno Frazatto will likely get invites. Jeff Glover always gets invited but is retired.

I'd imagine AJ Agazarm and Gianni Grippo will get invites.
Edited: 2/13/19 12:42 PM
5/11/11
Posts: 2170

Gi only makes you extra dangerous for a slumber party. No one wins ADCC training primarily in a gi LEADING UP TO adcc. 12ish weeks out what do you think they do? If a gi makes you better for nogi why would you ever take it off?

2/13/19 12:35 PM
5/11/11
Posts: 2171

Why even mention 10th planet. Lazy stoner outcast culture has no place in competitive sports. The average Atos or GF team competitor looks and moves like a Greek god. The average 10th planet competitor looks like they got bullied so they form an emo band to play guitar in. It has nothing to do with a gi. 

2/13/19 2:08 PM
2/9/09
Posts: 8598
iqwrestler -

Gi only makes you extra dangerous for a slumber party. No one wins ADCC training primarily in a gi LEADING UP TO adcc. 12ish weeks out what do you think they do? If a gi makes you better for nogi why would you ever take it off?

My argument to this is you have FULL time no gi guys vs PART time no gi guys and the guys who do both seem to have a better track record. 

2/13/19 3:37 PM
10/23/09
Posts: 3273
bjjlurker -

I wonder who the invites at 66 will be? 

 

Calestine beat Gianni but came up short at both trials.  I would think skipping the trials shows a lack of interest unless you're a shoe in for an invite, you've medaled in the past.

Gianni has been at the last 2 ADCCs. I think Marcio Andre will get an invite too

2/13/19 4:34 PM
9/7/17
Posts: 425
Muffinho - 
bjjlurker -

I wonder who the invites at 66 will be? 

 

Calestine beat Gianni but came up short at both trials.  I would think skipping the trials shows a lack of interest unless you're a shoe in for an invite, you've medaled in the past.

Gianni has been at the last 2 ADCCs. I think Marcio Andre will get an invite too


You sure he was in 2017? I could be wrong but I don't remember seeing him. I definitely remember him in 2015.
2/13/19 4:43 PM
9/7/17
Posts: 426
The Closed Guard - 
iqwrestler -

Gi only makes you extra dangerous for a slumber party. No one wins ADCC training primarily in a gi LEADING UP TO adcc. 12ish weeks out what do you think they do? If a gi makes you better for nogi why would you ever take it off?

My argument to this is you have FULL time no gi guys vs PART time no gi guys and the guys who do both seem to have a better track record. 


I think there are at least 2 big things at play that aren't spoken of often.

1. There has really only been one team that has been dedicated to no-gi specific training that has been run in a way that is conducive to getting high level competitive results. And it's Renzo's team. Until the past few years there has not been a no-gi focused competition team that is run the way Atos/Alliance/GB do it. So time is a factor at play.

2. People that compete in both have more chances to compete. Again until recently 10th Planet was the only no-gi only option around. And they've never been that big into competition until the past few years. So competing as a full time grappler all year round during gi and no-gi season just makes you a better competitor. Better competitors tend to beat less good competitors regardless of attire or rule-set.

My personal belief is that I think gi and no-gi both help each other. Gi teaches skills that will help in no-gi and no-gi teaches skills that will help in the gi. I especially think the gi is a great foundation and I think it's a bad idea to not at least develop a foundation in the gi.

However, within the past couple of years I think the level of quality no-gi training programs has risen big time. There are also more opportunities to compete in no-gi which will develop no-gi athletes into better competitors.

I think this will continue as time goes on. And I think if you want to specialize in no-gi competition and you're a purple belt or higher that you should spend your time training for what you're going to compete in.
Edited: 2/13/19 6:02 PM
6/26/00
Posts: 2936

A few years ago I would have agreed that the gi and no-gi games weren’t really too dissimilar. The particular grips for the techniques were different, pacing was different, etc but the overall strategy was the same: get on top, pass the guard, score some points, go for the sub. However, rolling with some modern no gi players has totally changed my mind to the point where I really do consider gi and no gi to be separate sports now, each requiring different skill sets and strategies to succeed. The leglock game really changed everything to the point where guard passing is almost not even a viable strategy in no-gi when rolling with someone with a solid modern game. There’s no way a 100% gi player who never takes it off could go into ADCC or no-gi worlds and expect to do well. (I would love to be proven wrong.)

Edited: 2/13/19 7:53 PM
11/25/09
Posts: 4378
iqwrestler -

Why even mention 10th planet. Lazy stoner outcast culture has no place in competitive sports. The average Atos or GF team competitor looks and moves like a Greek god. The average 10th planet competitor looks like they got bullied so they form an emo band to play guitar in. It has nothing to do with a gi. 

Lol you don’t compete at a high level. You’re a scrub level HS former wrestler purple belt. 

 

Why not compete at the trials ONCE before opening your mouth? You’ll get your shit pushed in that’s why.

2/13/19 8:47 PM
2/19/18
Posts: 53
mata_leaos -
The Closed Guard - 
iqwrestler -

Gi only makes you extra dangerous for a slumber party. No one wins ADCC training primarily in a gi LEADING UP TO adcc. 12ish weeks out what do you think they do? If a gi makes you better for nogi why would you ever take it off?

My argument to this is you have FULL time no gi guys vs PART time no gi guys and the guys who do both seem to have a better track record. 


I think there are at least 2 big things at play that aren't spoken of often.

1. There has really only been one team that has been dedicated to no-gi specific training that has been run in a way that is conducive to getting high level competitive results. And it's Renzo's team. Until the past few years there has not been a no-gi focused competition team that is run the way Atos/Alliance/GB do it. So time is a factor at play.

2. People that compete in both have more chances to compete. Again until recently 10th Planet was the only no-gi only option around. And they've never been that big into competition until the past few years. So competing as a full time grappler all year round during gi and no-gi season just makes you a better competitor. Better competitors tend to beat less good competitors regardless of attire or rule-set.

My personal belief is that I think gi and no-gi both help each other. Gi teaches skills that will help in no-gi and no-gi teaches skills that will help in the gi. I especially think the gi is a great foundation and I think it's a bad idea to not at least develop a foundation in the gi.

However, within the past couple of years I think the level of quality no-gi training programs has risen big time. There are also more opportunities to compete in no-gi which will develop no-gi athletes into better competitors.

I think this will continue as time goes on. And I think if you want to specialize in no-gi competition and you're a purple belt or higher that you should spend your time training for what you're going to compete in.

Yes, if you give a D1 All American 1 year with Danaher he'd have a very good shot at ADCC.  

Weidman gave Galvao a very good run with less than a year of training I think.

2/14/19 4:44 AM
5/11/11
Posts: 2172
BTTMike -
iqwrestler -

Why even mention 10th planet. Lazy stoner outcast culture has no place in competitive sports. The average Atos or GF team competitor looks and moves like a Greek god. The average 10th planet competitor looks like they got bullied so they form an emo band to play guitar in. It has nothing to do with a gi. 

Lol you don’t compete at a high level. You’re a scrub level HS former wrestler purple belt. 

 

Why not compete at the trials ONCE before opening your mouth? You’ll get your shit pushed in that’s why.

So you wanna talk about me instead of any point I raised because you’re frustrated? Been following my competitions closely? Who are you again? A guy who knows a guy who won a match or two at trials? Lol. 

2/14/19 12:01 PM
9/7/17
Posts: 427
bjjlurker - 
mata_leaos -
The Closed Guard - 
iqwrestler -

Gi only makes you extra dangerous for a slumber party. No one wins ADCC training primarily in a gi LEADING UP TO adcc. 12ish weeks out what do you think they do? If a gi makes you better for nogi why would you ever take it off?

My argument to this is you have FULL time no gi guys vs PART time no gi guys and the guys who do both seem to have a better track record. 


I think there are at least 2 big things at play that aren't spoken of often.

1. There has really only been one team that has been dedicated to no-gi specific training that has been run in a way that is conducive to getting high level competitive results. And it's Renzo's team. Until the past few years there has not been a no-gi focused competition team that is run the way Atos/Alliance/GB do it. So time is a factor at play.

2. People that compete in both have more chances to compete. Again until recently 10th Planet was the only no-gi only option around. And they've never been that big into competition until the past few years. So competing as a full time grappler all year round during gi and no-gi season just makes you a better competitor. Better competitors tend to beat less good competitors regardless of attire or rule-set.

My personal belief is that I think gi and no-gi both help each other. Gi teaches skills that will help in no-gi and no-gi teaches skills that will help in the gi. I especially think the gi is a great foundation and I think it's a bad idea to not at least develop a foundation in the gi.

However, within the past couple of years I think the level of quality no-gi training programs has risen big time. There are also more opportunities to compete in no-gi which will develop no-gi athletes into better competitors.

I think this will continue as time goes on. And I think if you want to specialize in no-gi competition and you're a purple belt or higher that you should spend your time training for what you're going to compete in.

Yes, if you give a D1 All American 1 year with Danaher he'd have a very good shot at ADCC.  

Weidman gave Galvao a very good run with less than a year of training I think.


Great example
Edited: 2/14/19 1:02 PM
11/25/09
Posts: 4381
iqwrestler -
BTTMike -
iqwrestler -

Why even mention 10th planet. Lazy stoner outcast culture has no place in competitive sports. The average Atos or GF team competitor looks and moves like a Greek god. The average 10th planet competitor looks like they got bullied so they form an emo band to play guitar in. It has nothing to do with a gi. 

Lol you don’t compete at a high level. You’re a scrub level HS former wrestler purple belt. 

 

Why not compete at the trials ONCE before opening your mouth? You’ll get your shit pushed in that’s why.

So you wanna talk about me instead of any point I raised because you’re frustrated? Been following my competitions closely? Who are you again? A guy who knows a guy who won a match or two at trials? Lol. 

Your point was what again? You were just talking shit. 

I don’t follow you, you just pop into every thread that mentions 10th planet and talk shit. Lift weights and talk about how good your wrestling is bro, you’re still getting heel hooked and finishing 3rd place at Naga. Lol

Have you seen Jon Blank or PJ Barch? Kyle Chambers, Vinny, Jeremiah Vance, Geo is insanely strong/ripped. Walk into 10p S.D. or Las Vegas and you’lI reconsider your stance on how the average 10p guy is built. 

 

Ive done the trials twice before, never placed. Guess that means I suck. I’m fighting again in March so I didn’t do trials this time. 

 

Whats your excuse? 

Edited: 2/15/19 6:39 AM
5/11/11
Posts: 2173

Settle down skeleton rash guard tough guy. All those dudes you mentioned don’t look like athletes with the exception of vinny who is hardly all 10th planet.

 

We had a trials champ this time in Combs (much smaller school/affiliate than 10th planet) and I am not him. I compete locally because I have no world champ aspirations but I do everything within an hour of Denver. At the local 10th planet in Boulder, Colorado, the bio dragon spats guys look exactly like what you’d expect lol. Maybe that skews my view. 

 

It’s first place at naga too bro. Your turn for some podium pics. Or do you only enter big tournaments to get your shit rocked in the first round and then brag about it.

 

2/14/19 3:10 PM
5/11/11
Posts: 2174


Edited: 2/15/19 12:09 AM
5/11/11
Posts: 2175

HUGE surprise who’s winning. NS Brotherhood and 10th planet’s best: 

 

bunch of goof balls

2/14/19 6:26 PM
5/11/11
Posts: 2176


2/14/19 6:26 PM
5/11/11
Posts: 2177


Edited: 2/15/19 8:46 AM
2/9/09
Posts: 8605

^idk why this is still an argument. Gi grapplers are overall better grapplers than no gi. End of story.