David Jacobs' BJJGround Gordon Ryan will go down as no gi GOAT

If he keeps this pace up. I know he could be a little brash. But hes always calling out the best, under any ruleset. 

He already is IMO. 

He’s already so dominant that the other top guys actively avoid having to compete against him.

I love that he wants to face everyone.

 

You guys dont think Lovato is infront of him as far as Americans and MG as far as No gi? 

The Closed Guard -

I love that he wants to face everyone.

 

You guys dont think Lovato is infront of him as far as Americans and MG as far as No gi? 

No I think he’s the best at no-gi ever. His last ADCC he was insanely good against a murderers row of opponents. I mean Marcelo is/was awesome but the skill levels have naturally risen over the years. And Gordon makes it look easy. 

Fast Pitch -

The Closed Guard -

I love that he wants to face everyone.

 

You guys dont think Lovato is infront of him as far as Americans and MG as far as No gi? 

No I think he’s the best at no-gi ever. His last ADCC he was insanely good against a murderers row of opponents. I mean Marcelo is/was awesome but the skill levels have naturally risen over the years. And Gordon makes it look easy. 

I like this reply 

Call me old fashioned, but I really only consider GOAT if they use gi as well./ Illogical, I know. But it's easier in no gi.

Yup, the GOAT of No GI grappling!!!!


He’s Awesome, DDS is too.

He is. But in fairness, I don't think anybody really had "No gi GOAT" as a goal until about 4 years ago. All the top guys he competes against were & are doing both the highest level gi and no gi tournaments. I would guess that his competitors are training without the gi about 15-20% of their time at best. In an ADCC year, they probably start training exclusively no gi around June after all the major gi comps are over. It's obvious they're going to be at a significant disadvantage going against him in no gi in the same way they would have a ridiculous advantage against him in a gi match. 

It's not to diminish Gordon because he's as legit as they come and he has a really clean, dominant game. I am just recognizing that there is a shift and a split between Brazilian Jiujitsu and Submission Grappling. It's as different as Judo is from Greco. Neither is better than the other and there is a lot of crossover skills, but it's just different. 

 

He hasn't, and probably never will, surpass Marcelo.

Soul Gravy - He hasn't, and probably never will, surpass Marcelo.

I think he honestly will. The thing about MG is he was so small 

I think he needs to at least win the ADCC superfight.  If arguably the the 2 best in the world (Galvao and Pena) are not in the bracket it's hard to consider yourself the best even in the tournament let alone the GOAT.  Especially when you have 2 loses to Pena and then Pena loses.  Now personally I think Gordon beats both those guys now but it's a bit obnoxious to say you are the GOAT when you haven't even won one superfight let alone multiple like Andre has.

HotSteppa - Call me old fashioned, but I really only consider GOAT if they use gi as well./ Illogical, I know. But it's easier in no gi.

Why would you have to use the gi to be considered the GOAT in NO GI?

And no, no gi isn't easier in any way.

The Closed Guard - 

Soul Gravy - He hasn't, and probably never will, surpass Marcelo.

I think he honestly will. The thing about MG is he was so small 

That gives him extra points over an obvious user of PEDs.

Soul Gravy -

The Closed Guard - 

Soul Gravy - He hasn't, and probably never will, surpass Marcelo.

I think he honestly will. The thing about MG is he was so small 

That gives him extra points over an obvious user of PEDs.

They all use. Such a stupid and tired argument 

He is without a doubt the best right now (no gi).

To be the GOAT, I think longevity is important. He is well on his way to do so, but I think winning a couple of more ADCC's at his weight will solidify the argument for him.

If he continues, and doesn't suffer any injuries, I dont see why he couldn't- he was able to win relatively easily this time around.

(I also do not think Andre is in the running- Yes, he has been awesome at the superfights, but his first three ADCC's- where he competed at his weight class, he only won once- getting silver and bronze the other times.

Additionally, it should be noted that while Andre did beat the absolute champs in the super fights, the past three absolute champs Pena, Calasans, and Cyborg prior to Gordon didn't even win their own weight divisions)

ogjune -

He is. But in fairness, I don't think anybody really had "No gi GOAT" as a goal until about 4 years ago. All the top guys he competes against were & are doing both the highest level gi and no gi tournaments. I would guess that his competitors are training without the gi about 15-20% of their time at best. In an ADCC year, they probably start training exclusively no gi around June after all the major gi comps are over. It's obvious they're going to be at a significant disadvantage going against him in no gi in the same way they would have a ridiculous advantage against him in a gi match. 

It's not to diminish Gordon because he's as legit as they come and he has a really clean, dominant game. I am just recognizing that there is a shift and a split between Brazilian Jiujitsu and Submission Grappling. It's as different as Judo is from Greco. Neither is better than the other and there is a lot of crossover skills, but it's just different. 

 

You say it's obvious that training no gi exclusively is an advantage in a no gi competition.  Just a handful of years back, very few in this forum would agree with that very reasonable statement, strange as that may seem.  

I dont think Gordan exclusively being No Gi gives him a big advantage, because if that was the case, No Gi only guys have been around for years, and they havent dominated the No Gi tournaments all this time

I think his work ethic, training environment, athletic ability, strategy, techniques, approach to competitions are his bigger strengths

He trains like a professional because this is his profession, heard him on some podcast the other day, right back in the gym training Monday after winning double gold in ADCC

I think he even threw a little shot at other competitors who always take months off after tournaments, then train hard before a comp, he doesn't do that

saying it gives him any kind of advantage, however minute it might be, shows how times have changed

No.

Is he fantastic yes.  But he isnt the GOAT yet. 2 Weight class and 1 open weight doesn't cap a list. MG dominated his generations murderers. Roger did the same so that excuse is mute. Can he maintain the focus and keep winning and cement his place in history? I hope so because itll be fun to watch.  But he still has a ways to go. 

misterw -

saying it gives him any kind of advantage, however minute it might be, shows how times have changed

I forgot about this. It is interesting how things have changed. In the past most people would say that to be the best in nogi you should also train gi. I even had this opinion and have changed it without really thinking about this. I think the 2 big things that have changed with nogi is how advanced the leg attack game is now. And second how much wrestling has been added to nogi.Yes, wrestling has always been a part of nogi but I think nogi guys now seemlessly incorporated it into their over game, not just for takedowns.

I think he's the pound for pound best that's currently active. Meaning, I would put money on him over anyone else right now especially when you consider his finishing rate is astronomical. The fact that he advocates for fights against the best under every rule set possible evidences how good he is and the fact that he is trying to earn the no gi goat title.I was legitimately shocked at how timid Buchecha wrestled against him at ADCC, he had no answer for Gordon standing out of guard repeatedly.

But Gordon isn't unbeatable. We can't forget he's 0-2 against Pena, and lost to Pezao semi-recently as well. That would mean a lot more if Pena would actually agree to fight him again and get it done.

kennyfrommd - 

I think he's the pound for pound best that's currently active. Meaning, I would put money on him over anyone else right now especially when you consider his finishing rate is astronomical. The fact that he advocates for fights against the best under every rule set possible evidences how good he is and the fact that he is trying to earn the no gi goat title.I was legitimately shocked at how timid Buchecha wrestled against him at ADCC, he had no answer for Gordon standing out of guard repeatedly.

But Gordon isn't unbeatable. We can't forget he's 0-2 against Pena, and lost to Pezao semi-recently as well. That would mean a lot more if Pena would actually agree to fight him again and get it done.

That Buchecha match was awful, mostly because of Buchecha, would have liked to see Gordan do more if possible, he just kept working that arm drag but wasn't going to get the back, that's all I remember (I may be wrong because it was so boring lol)

Besides the sweep, but Gordan is ridiculous, need to see him and Pena again

liquidrob -

kennyfrommd - 

I think he's the pound for pound best that's currently active. Meaning, I would put money on him over anyone else right now especially when you consider his finishing rate is astronomical. The fact that he advocates for fights against the best under every rule set possible evidences how good he is and the fact that he is trying to earn the no gi goat title.I was legitimately shocked at how timid Buchecha wrestled against him at ADCC, he had no answer for Gordon standing out of guard repeatedly.

But Gordon isn't unbeatable. We can't forget he's 0-2 against Pena, and lost to Pezao semi-recently as well. That would mean a lot more if Pena would actually agree to fight him again and get it done.

That Buchecha match was awful, mostly because of Buchecha, would have liked to see Gordan do more if possible, he just kept working that arm drag but wasn't going to get the back, that's all I remember (I may be wrong because it was so boring lol)

Besides the sweep, but Gordan is ridiculous, need to see him and Pena again

Agree. Buchecha was timid and stally and never pulled the trigger on anything. He kept acting like he was going to go with the drag and pull some kind of counter the way he kept looking at Leozinho, but didn't and looked really befuddled and flustered every time Gordon threatened to stand. He wrestled scared, and I love Buchecha. I forgot to add Gordon is also 0-1 against Lo, and while Lo was stalling/fleeing the whole match and I would definitely pick Gordon in a rematch, he has to be able to handle people gaming the rules like that and win if he is to be the GOAT....

He crushes Pena next time. Not even close