David Jacobs' BJJGround How do I get better wrestling?

17 days ago
2/9/09
Posts: 9320

Most people love pulling guard where I train. I also don’t have the best technique when it comes to takedowns because we don’t spend as much time on them as we do on the ground (rightfully so). But what are my options here? 

Edited: 17 days ago
12/18/03
Posts: 24917

Back in the day here there were free wrestling classes for low income kids, but the instructor was awesome and gave an extra class for grown ups, and everyone was welcome (BJJers, Judokas, MMA dudes) with the condition that you had to be consistent and train hard.

I could only train for a very brief period, but the focus on conditioning, setups and takedowns made me realize I'd never get good at them in "regular" BJJ classes.

Unless you can dedicate some time to wrestling or Judo classes, I think your best bet is to gather one or two guys who are also interested in takedowns and pratice it outside of class time (maybe have your coach take a look at whe you are doing every now and then).

There's a ton of videos and tutorials online (I like this one by Travis Stevens):

Some suggestions:

Start with "safe" takedowns (trips, ankle picks, single legs) that won't expose your back if you fail and don't demand a lot of athleticism.

Give a ton of attention to setups, even if just a simple one for each TD technique.. a big reason BJJers suck a hitting TDs is because they don't know any decent setups - the takedowns fail becuase they were obvious, or poorly timed or the people involved were not in the right positions (I'm talking from personal experience here, LOL).

There's some fun drills that are perfect for either warming up, conditioning or improving your shots/posture.

One of them is trying to get your hands on the back of your opponents knees, get double underhooks, or take their back, getting a point for each of these (without actually taking anyone down or going for subs)... do this for a period of time and the loser has to do some pushups or some such thing.

 

17 days ago
11/10/05
Posts: 7440
MarsMan - 

Back in the day here there were free wrestling classes for low income kids, but the instructor was awesome and gave an extra class for grown ups, and everyone was welcome (BJJers, Judokas, MMA dudes) with the condition that you had to be consistent and train hard.

I could only train for a very brief period, but the focus on conditioning, setups and takedowns made me realize I'd never get good at them in "regular" BJJ classes.

Unless you can dedicate some time to wrestling or Judo classes, I think your best bet is to gather one or two guys who are also interested in takedowns and pratice it outside of class time (maybe have your coach take a look at whe you are doing every now and then).

There's a ton of videos and tutorials online (I like this one by Travis Stevens):

Some suggestions:

Start with "safe" takedowns (trips, ankle picks, single legs) that won't expose your back if you fail and don't demand a lot of athleticism.

Give a ton of attention to setups, even if just a simple one for each TD technique.. a big reason BJJers suck a hitting TDs is because they don't know any decent setups - the takedowns fail becuase they were obvious, or poorly timed or the people involved were not in the right positions (I'm talking from personal experience here, LOL).

There's some fun drills that are perfect for either warming up, conditioning or improving your shots/posture.

One of them is trying to get your hands on the back of your opponents knees, get double underhooks, or take their back, getting a point for each of these (without actually taking anyone down or going for subs)... do this for a period of time and the loser has to do some pushups or some such thing.

 


Every one of these points sound like stellar advice

17 days ago
12/18/03
Posts: 24921

Thanks man... I honestly wish I could put that in practice more often. 

16 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 8580
Wrestling is NOT rocket science (neither is Bjj). It is something that is taught to KIDS... therefore it can't be that complicated to learn. I wrestled as a young kid and realized early on that the key to learning, mastering and successfully competing in wrestling is rooted in consistency. In other words... DRILL DRILL DRILL and DRILL so more.

One problem I've notice that hinders people from learning and mastering combat sports like wrestling, boxing and even Bjj is this: people, especially adults, tend to OVERTHINK everything. Yes, the movements and techniques have their nuances and details BUT you don't have to intellectually know everything in order to learn, master and apply it. In fact your body will know what to do long before your mind catches up.

Ken Chertow has some excellent drill videos on YouTube. He runs several wrestling camps and has produced many successful wrestlers
16 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 8581
https://youtu.be/Lx-5nEv5h3w

https://youtu.be/6og0SwNBXYk

https://youtu.be/D8PDWKUNf6w

https://youtu.be/qNF82Hx1ysA
16 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 8582
https://youtu.be/Z5bPGvS1bFo

https://youtu.be/oObSx5P9vj8

https://youtu.be/2uHemUzgjy8
16 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 8583
https://youtu.be/TImA_0fuGwc
16 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 14256
I'd get a few of the video series from wrestling fanatics or even youtube and work with the material with a group of friends at a separate time than your regular bjj practices. I'd start once a week and if people can be consistent, increase it to 2x/week.
15 days ago
7/30/03
Posts: 7277
m.g - Wrestling is NOT rocket science (neither is Bjj). It is something that is taught to KIDS... therefore it can't be that complicated to learn. I wrestled as a young kid and realized early on that the key to learning, mastering and successfully competing in wrestling is rooted in consistency. In other words... DRILL DRILL DRILL and DRILL so more.

One problem I've notice that hinders people from learning and mastering combat sports like wrestling, boxing and even Bjj is this: people, especially adults, tend to OVERTHINK everything. Yes, the movements and techniques have their nuances and details BUT you don't have to intellectually know everything in order to learn, master and apply it. In fact your body will know what to do long before your mind catches up.

Ken Chertow has some excellent drill videos on YouTube. He runs several wrestling camps and has produced many successful wrestlers

The biggest key imo is conditioning.

13 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 8584
Calhoon - 
m.g - Wrestling is NOT rocket science (neither is Bjj). It is something that is taught to KIDS... therefore it can't be that complicated to learn. I wrestled as a young kid and realized early on that the key to learning, mastering and successfully competing in wrestling is rooted in consistency. In other words... DRILL DRILL DRILL and DRILL so more.

One problem I've notice that hinders people from learning and mastering combat sports like wrestling, boxing and even Bjj is this: people, especially adults, tend to OVERTHINK everything. Yes, the movements and techniques have their nuances and details BUT you don't have to intellectually know everything in order to learn, master and apply it. In fact your body will know what to do long before your mind catches up.

Ken Chertow has some excellent drill videos on YouTube. He runs several wrestling camps and has produced many successful wrestlers

The biggest key imo is conditioning.


If you mean general conditioning... NO, this is NOT the best way to become proficient at wrestling takedowns (or any sport)... the only thing general conditioning is good for is general conditioning.

If you mean conditioning that is specific to wrestling... YES, that is very important for developing takedown skills and enhancing one's wrestling skillset.

BTW conditioning that is specific to wrestling is essentially using movements, techniques, combinations and sequences of wrestling as conditioning tools.
13 days ago
2/1/08
Posts: 1623

Wrestling techniques themselves aren't any more difficult to learn than Jiu Jitsu techniques, but the timing of shots and accepting the idea  that propelling yourself under a sprawling opponent is what you want to do... much easier learned when you are a kid and the idea that you can be hurt never crosses your mind.  I think it is like learning to ride a bike.  Harder for adults who are well aware of the fragility of the human body.  

In ~7 years of teaching adults with no prior experience wrestling, I have found that a very high percentage of them can demonstrate a decent looking double leg on a non resisting partner.  A very very low percentage become comfortable and proficient using leg shots in a live setting.  

 

13 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 18558

In for Stevens seminar video!

13 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 8585
misterw - 

Wrestling techniques themselves aren't any more difficult to learn than Jiu Jitsu techniques, but the timing of shots and accepting the idea  that propelling yourself under a sprawling opponent is what you want to do... much easier learned when you are a kid and the idea that you can be hurt never crosses your mind.  I think it is like learning to ride a bike.  Harder for adults who are well aware of the fragility of the human body.  

In ~7 years of teaching adults with no prior experience wrestling, I have found that a very high percentage of them can demonstrate a decent looking double leg on a non resisting partner.  A very very low percentage become comfortable and proficient using leg shots in a live setting.  

 


I agree.

But I think you've hit the nail on the head when you say adults are too aware of the fragility of the human body. Adults are also not as pliable or resilient as children are. Many adults are stiff and uncoordinated and don't take the time to reduce those hindering factors.

This is why repetition is so important. It makes things easier.
7 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 7656
m.g -
misterw - 

Wrestling techniques themselves aren't any more difficult to learn than Jiu Jitsu techniques, but the timing of shots and accepting the idea  that propelling yourself under a sprawling opponent is what you want to do... much easier learned when you are a kid and the idea that you can be hurt never crosses your mind.  I think it is like learning to ride a bike.  Harder for adults who are well aware of the fragility of the human body.  

In ~7 years of teaching adults with no prior experience wrestling, I have found that a very high percentage of them can demonstrate a decent looking double leg on a non resisting partner.  A very very low percentage become comfortable and proficient using leg shots in a live setting.  

 


I agree.

But I think you've hit the nail on the head when you say adults are too aware of the fragility of the human body. Adults are also not as pliable or resilient as children are. Many adults are stiff and uncoordinated and don't take the time to reduce those hindering factors.

This is why repetition is so important. It makes things easier.

And we take forever to heal...

Damn wolverine youngsters...

2 days ago
11/13/09
Posts: 3293

Keep in mind you need to let go of the idea of training wrestling for BJJ at the beginning.  The number one asset of every wrestler I have rolled with is not accepting anything, ever for any reason.  This is the anti-bjj especially for hobbyists bjj guys like myself.  If you train too much within in the framework of BJJ you wont embrace the suck and the scramble.  You'll shoot get sprawled on and then work to pull guard or accept the front headlock.  You have to work at shooting and reshooting.  Shooting and working back out to standing, shooting and turning the corner, shooting and peaking out/sitting out.  Constant movement and effort.  I've trained with BJJ/MMA guys that have come in as novices and far surpassed me in wrestling because they were willing to suck and get mauled in wrestling but to keep doing it.  Keep shooting doubles and failing.  I'm honest with myself.  I'm unwilling to put in the work and I'm unwilling to pay the price.  I love wrestling and I will continue to suck

Edited: 2 days ago
6/6/09
Posts: 756

The way to get better at wrestling is to wrestle with wrestlers and a wrestling coach.

 

Obviously they need to understand and be appreciative of your age, goals, etc,... but that's really it.

Edited: 1 day ago
4/25/11
Posts: 2756

Where do you live? There has to be some former wrestler MMA fighters at a gym near you. Any kind of stand up grappling is better than nothing, so judo or sambo works too. 

Don't bother learning from videos IMO. If you have zero wrestling/judo experience you are not going to do what is being taught properly and may possibly get hurt. Best case scenario you learn bad habits that only work on people that are not good which you will have a hard time unlearning.