David Jacobs' BJJGround I love the F2W shows, but hate the EBI rule set.

7/14/19 4:00 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 1905

I went to the fight 2 win show in Los Angrles last night to support a training partner. That match didn’t turn out how I hoped, but the show was amazing. Great location, matches ran on time, food was good enough and the sight lines were great. The production value was amazing.  I stayed for 3 hours and even brought my wife  we had a really good time. 

As much as I loved the show and I really like the 5 on 5 format i really hate the EBI rule set. João Miyao dominated Martinez but lost in overtime.  The problem I have with the overtime rules is that it gives you a position that you didn’t earn and may not be good enough to get. All you have to do is stall for 6 or 7 minutes and then you are given back mount or spiderweb. Finishing from the  back is relatively easy and you can get get good at it in a year or so.  Getting there takes decades to learn. 

 

Recap

F2W-1

EBI rule set-0 

7/21/19 11:39 PM
2/25/08
Posts: 11803

EBI ruleset was only in play for the Subversive tourney. All other matches were in our regular rule set.

 

With that being said,  everybody knew the rules going in and everybody had the same amount of time to hit a sub. IMO, Joao & Geo both have the technical knowledge to gain back control and/or spiderweb positions. 

7/22/19 12:49 AM
5/30/03
Posts: 41413

EBI typeset is absolute bullshit because of your point. You would never take his back then suddenly you are gifted it because you stalled to OT

7/22/19 2:05 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 1906
ilovetortillas -

EBI ruleset was only in play for the Subversive tourney. All other matches were in our regular rule set.

 

With that being said,  everybody knew the rules going in and everybody had the same amount of time to hit a sub. IMO, Joao & Geo both have the technical knowledge to gain back control and/or spiderweb positions. 

Two things:

1. You might have missed the compliments I heaped on F2W.  I’ll likely changed my vacation days so we can go to the Honolulu show in November. 

 

2. I have the technical skill to take Joao’s back.  I don’t possess the physical skills to do so. From my perspective of the match, neither did Geo. He was fighting off foot locks the entire regulation time.  I understand both competitors agreed to the ruleset and it isn’t unfair to anyone. I was simply stating that I’m not a fan of the EBI ruleset for reasons stated.  

 

7/22/19 11:54 AM
12/1/00
Posts: 17108
I'm really not a fan of the EBI OT rules- but all the competitors know what they are getting themselves into.
30 days ago
2/25/08
Posts: 11804
Hey Beer Man -
ilovetortillas -

EBI ruleset was only in play for the Subversive tourney. All other matches were in our regular rule set.

 

With that being said,  everybody knew the rules going in and everybody had the same amount of time to hit a sub. IMO, Joao & Geo both have the technical knowledge to gain back control and/or spiderweb positions. 

Two things:

1. You might have missed the compliments I heaped on F2W.  I’ll likely changed my vacation days so we can go to the Honolulu show in November. 

 

2. I have the technical skill to take Joao’s back.  I don’t possess the physical skills to do so. From my perspective of the match, neither did Geo. He was fighting off foot locks the entire regulation time.  I understand both competitors agreed to the ruleset and it isn’t unfair to anyone. I was simply stating that I’m not a fan of the EBI ruleset for reasons stated.  

 

1. Cool.  Hawaii is fun.

 

2. Simply staying that those matches were Subversive. It's hard to feel the love when you close with the hate. 

29 days ago
10/23/12
Posts: 27

Ebi ruleset only kind of makes sense in the original tournament format where you were given a cash incentive to finish during regulation as you continued each round. Makes no sense in a single match. 

28 days ago
9/12/06
Posts: 214
IpponOmoPlata -

Ebi ruleset only kind of makes sense in the original tournament format where you were given a cash incentive to finish during regulation as you continued each round. Makes no sense in a single match. 

Absolutely this.

Edited: 27 days ago
6/7/13
Posts: 817

"overtime" should be you get to go back to a dominate position you obtained and held during the match. if you got side control...the back...mount...whatever...you should be able to pick from what you already accomplished. Of course youd have to establish some kind of control...cant cry for a guillotine start in overtime when you had a half second chin strap.

 

You shouldnt get rewarded for Schaub-ing and automatically get to choose to be on someones back in overtime. Youve wasted 10 perfectly good minutes of everyones life around you.  You should not get a reward for that. If anything your opponent should get to choose where you start from for wasting everyones time. The choices for running and stalling should be slim...like side control. And escape that.

26 days ago
10/14/06
Posts: 968

Stalling should be penalized by refs as a DQ after a warning.  I don't mind the EBI overtime.  It's better than the IBJJF judge's decision. 

Edited: 26 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 1907

There are several ways to stall.  You can stall like Schaub did which is super obvious and should be DQ’d, but then there is a way to stall like wrestlers can do.  They can take you down and hold you there without trying to pass guard or work for a submission so they are actively stalling. You can’t DQ that type of stall.  The question is how do you take decisions out of the hands of judges and still have a winner of a match in a short period of time? EBI might be a step in the right direction but it is lacking and needs to be tweaked. 

25 days ago
10/14/06
Posts: 969
Hey Beer Man -

There are several ways to stall.  You can stall like Schaub did which is super obvious and should be DQ’d, but then there is a way to stall like wrestlers can do.  They can take you down and hold you there without trying to pass guard or work for a submission so they are actively stalling. You can’t DQ that type of stall.  The question is how do you take decisions out of the hands of judges and still have a winner of a match in a short period of time? EBI might be a step in the right direction but it is lacking and needs to be tweaked. 

Why can't you DQ the latter? you have no business in a submission grappling match if you refuse to attack submissions.  I think Rickson's one time budo tournament was a step In the right direction.  They awarded submission attempts and prohibited holding the same grip for a set time. 

25 days ago
11/10/05
Posts: 7419

to be fair... I don't think there's a rule set that woundn't have some drawback. So it's nice to have the variety.

Some formats just fit certain fighter's styles better than others

Edited: 25 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 1911
ogjune -
Hey Beer Man -

There are several ways to stall.  You can stall like Schaub did which is super obvious and should be DQ’d, but then there is a way to stall like wrestlers can do.  They can take you down and hold you there without trying to pass guard or work for a submission so they are actively stalling. You can’t DQ that type of stall.  The question is how do you take decisions out of the hands of judges and still have a winner of a match in a short period of time? EBI might be a step in the right direction but it is lacking and needs to be tweaked. 

Why can't you DQ the latter? you have no business in a submission grappling match if you refuse to attack submissions.  I think Rickson's one time budo tournament was a step In the right direction.  They awarded submission attempts and prohibited holding the same grip for a set time. 

True all around, but then you have a super fragmented sport that will have serious issues gaining mainstream acceptance. A uniform set of rules is what allowed MMA/UFC to explode. Having a champion in this rules set and one in that rule set wouldn’t answer the question every causal fan wants to know- who is the best in the world at a given weight. Gi and no gi already makes it hard to answer that question.  Having 5 different rules to compete by will only make it worse. 

25 days ago
6/4/02
Posts: 18973
ilovetortillas -
Hey Beer Man -
ilovetortillas -

EBI ruleset was only in play for the Subversive tourney. All other matches were in our regular rule set.

 

With that being said,  everybody knew the rules going in and everybody had the same amount of time to hit a sub. IMO, Joao & Geo both have the technical knowledge to gain back control and/or spiderweb positions. 

Two things:

1. You might have missed the compliments I heaped on F2W.  I’ll likely changed my vacation days so we can go to the Honolulu show in November. 

 

2. I have the technical skill to take Joao’s back.  I don’t possess the physical skills to do so. From my perspective of the match, neither did Geo. He was fighting off foot locks the entire regulation time.  I understand both competitors agreed to the ruleset and it isn’t unfair to anyone. I was simply stating that I’m not a fan of the EBI ruleset for reasons stated.  

 

1. Cool.  Hawaii is fun.

 

2. Simply staying that those matches were Subversive. It's hard to feel the love when you close with the hate. 

You’re such a girl.  Jump to your emotional retort and rio on OP.

 

He he doesn’t like ruleset.  Big deal. Eat shit.

24 days ago
6/28/11
Posts: 807

Never liked the ebi rule set after the 3rd tournament. Im glad that f2w has come around. I've been to 2 of their shows in chicago and they showcase a lot of my friends. Missy and the rest of #teamnosleep do an amazing job entertaining the fans. And they killed it o  the grappler union podcast not too long ago. 

23 days ago
10/25/05
Posts: 9970

FTW's regular ruleset is the best so far imo. EBI ruleset is garbage and totally the reason its impoded on itself.

22 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 1912
Animal Mother - 

FTW's regular ruleset is the best so far imo. EBI ruleset is garbage and totally the reason its impoded on itself.


I think EBI's success might be its worst enemy. I'm not too sure about timeing, but it seems like a handful of very good promotions popped up or at least became more popular after Eddie launched EBI. It was the 1st real threat to ADCC and IBJJF in terms of watching high level grapplers competing. I think that may have been the largest contribution factor as to why EBI has "imploded on itself"
22 days ago
10/25/05
Posts: 9977
Hey Beer Man -
Animal Mother - 

FTW's regular ruleset is the best so far imo. EBI ruleset is garbage and totally the reason its impoded on itself.


I think EBI's success might be its worst enemy. I'm not too sure about timeing, but it seems like a handful of very good promotions popped up or at least became more popular after Eddie launched EBI. It was the 1st real threat to ADCC and IBJJF in terms of watching high level grapplers competing. I think that may have been the largest contribution factor as to why EBI has "imploded on itself"

There have been a handful of high level guys that've said they have no interest in EBI specifically because of the stalling during regulation and overtime ruleset. EBI can't exist without some form of high level talent. Nobody wants to watch local level talent, and that's what was starting to happen. Watching Gordon smash cans can't last forever. 

Edited: 21 days ago
2/25/08
Posts: 11805
Mike Wazowski -
ilovetortillas -
Hey Beer Man -
ilovetortillas -

EBI ruleset was only in play for the Subversive tourney. All other matches were in our regular rule set.

 

With that being said,  everybody knew the rules going in and everybody had the same amount of time to hit a sub. IMO, Joao & Geo both have the technical knowledge to gain back control and/or spiderweb positions. 

Two things:

1. You might have missed the compliments I heaped on F2W.  I’ll likely changed my vacation days so we can go to the Honolulu show in November. 

 

2. I have the technical skill to take Joao’s back.  I don’t possess the physical skills to do so. From my perspective of the match, neither did Geo. He was fighting off foot locks the entire regulation time.  I understand both competitors agreed to the ruleset and it isn’t unfair to anyone. I was simply stating that I’m not a fan of the EBI ruleset for reasons stated.  

 

1. Cool.  Hawaii is fun.

 

2. Simply staying that those matches were Subversive. It's hard to feel the love when you close with the hate. 

You’re such a girl.  Jump to your emotional retort and rio on OP.

 

He he doesn’t like ruleset.  Big deal. Eat shit.

It's not my ruleset.

 

Love your emotions too, little lady. <3

21 days ago
2/25/08
Posts: 11806
rebelyell -

Never liked the ebi rule set after the 3rd tournament. Im glad that f2w has come around. I've been to 2 of their shows in chicago and they showcase a lot of my friends. Missy and the rest of #teamnosleep do an amazing job entertaining the fans. And they killed it o  the grappler union podcast not too long ago. 

Chicago is one of the funnest crowds in the country.  I fucking LOVE it. 

21 days ago
2/25/08
Posts: 11807

Hey Beer Man, If you really do come to Hawaii, message me so I can make sure you have nice seats. The venue is incredible. 

Edited: 21 days ago
1/23/11
Posts: 17
I think minor adjustments to the EBI OT rules could be beneficial to prevent stalling and possibly attract the competitors who have been deterred in the past by the idea of giving their back or arm to someone who would not likely attain that position in any other circumstances. i.e. if someone clearly "wins" the regulation period, they're the ones who get first crack at the back control or armbar position. And if they finish or maintain control for the allotted amount or time, they win. Sudden death. If in regulation the match is competitive, the coinflip, etc. rules remain.
21 days ago
6/28/11
Posts: 808
ilovetortillas -
rebelyell -

Never liked the ebi rule set after the 3rd tournament. Im glad that f2w has come around. I've been to 2 of their shows in chicago and they showcase a lot of my friends. Missy and the rest of #teamnosleep do an amazing job entertaining the fans. And they killed it o  the grappler union podcast not too long ago. 

Chicago is one of the funnest crowds in the country.  I fucking LOVE it. 

I feel like we represent ourselves fairly well. Especially team newbreed. I have a friend who is a black belt that is tailor made for the f2w style. Hes put in applications and never heard back. Danny rodriguez. He was recently on the grappler union also. 

21 days ago
2/25/08
Posts: 11808
rebelyell -
ilovetortillas -
rebelyell -

Never liked the ebi rule set after the 3rd tournament. Im glad that f2w has come around. I've been to 2 of their shows in chicago and they showcase a lot of my friends. Missy and the rest of #teamnosleep do an amazing job entertaining the fans. And they killed it o  the grappler union podcast not too long ago. 

Chicago is one of the funnest crowds in the country.  I fucking LOVE it. 

I feel like we represent ourselves fairly well. Especially team newbreed. I have a friend who is a black belt that is tailor made for the f2w style. Hes put in applications and never heard back. Danny rodriguez. He was recently on the grappler union also. 

We'll be back on 10/26. I hope I can get your friend a match. <3