David Jacobs' BJJGround IBJJF/steroids/retirement

Edited: 6 days ago
12/1/00
Posts: 17123
Just listening to the latest matburn podcast with Josh Hinger and Seth Daniels (as the guest).

Seth briefly mentioned that IBJJF has certain people retire if they fail their drug tests.

Now this was just a quick remark, but what was interesting is (1) Josh didn't ask him more about it (2) it has been rumored that is why both Gui and Rafa Mendes retired so young.

If this was true, it would make sense if Josh didn't pry into it (cause it's about his teammates). Normally, if somebody made a remark like that on their podcast, Josh or Keenan would definitely talk more about it.

I just think it would be interesting to really know the truth behind the rumors, since it seems so strange that two dominant champions retire so young.

(I know somebody in the past had asked USADA if they posted all of their failed testers, and they said yes...but if this is in fact the case, I don't know why these rumors still persist.)
6 days ago
2/28/03
Posts: 47689

You answered your own question 

6 days ago
5/11/09
Posts: 1068

I’ve been told by high level black belts at Atos that Rafa failed and then by a black belt world champ that Gui did too. I’m a huge fan of both guys, but they are not popular amongst their peers and even some of their Atos teammates, so it could be hate or jealousy. 

6 days ago
12/1/00
Posts: 17124
So USADA doesn't need to post who failed their tests if the IBJJF tell them not to?

How is that possible?
6 days ago
2/28/03
Posts: 47690
kying418 - So USADA doesn't need to post who failed their tests if the IBJJF tell them not to?

How is that possible?

Miyaos 

6 days ago
2/2/08
Posts: 12316
juanderlei - 

I’ve been told by high level black belts at Atos that Rafa failed and then by a black belt world champ that Gui did too. I’m a huge fan of both guys, but they are not popular amongst their peers and even some of their Atos teammates, so it could be hate or jealousy. 


How about Cobrinha?

He's probably juiced up, right?
6 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 2068
checkuroil - 
kying418 - So USADA doesn't need to post who failed their tests if the IBJJF tell them not to?

How is that possible?

Miyaos 


What about the Miyaos?
6 days ago
9/13/16
Posts: 1374
like most sports, the people at the highest levels (the levels where there is $$$ involved) are probably doping. so it would come as absolutely no surprise to me if the mendes bros and cobrinha were doping.
6 days ago
12/1/00
Posts: 17125
checkuroil - 
kying418 - So USADA doesn't need to post who failed their tests if the IBJJF tell them not to?

How is that possible?

Miyaos 


If you look at USADA's website:

https://www.usada.org/testing/results/sanctions/

They show that the Miyaos, Braulio Estima, Felipe Pena, etc have all violated...no mentioned of the Mendes brothers.

That's what I find so strange...if IBJJF (Gracie Barra), wanted to cover up certain violators- wouldnt they do it for Pena and Estima instead? Why would they care about giving the Mendes brothers a pass?
6 days ago
2/9/09
Posts: 9459

Yeah USADA posts everything on their site

6 days ago
5/30/03
Posts: 41528
kying418 -
checkuroil - 
kying418 - So USADA doesn't need to post who failed their tests if the IBJJF tell them not to?

How is that possible?

Miyaos 


If you look at USADA's website:

https://www.usada.org/testing/results/sanctions/

They show that the Miyaos, Braulio Estima, Felipe Pena, etc have all violated...no mentioned of the Mendes brothers.

That's what I find so strange...if IBJJF (Gracie Barra), wanted to cover up certain violators- wouldnt they do it for Pena and Estima instead? Why would they care about giving the Mendes brothers a pass?

It's a good question. I think usada may report you if you continue to compete. In all three cases you mentioned,  estima, Miyao and Pena have continued to compete. Perhaps there is a stipulation that if you retire, they will keep it quiet? 

 

Josh probably didn't get into it because of Galvao 

6 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 2070
The Maestro - 
kying418 -
checkuroil - 
kying418 - So USADA doesn't need to post who failed their tests if the IBJJF tell them not to?

How is that possible?

Miyaos 


If you look at USADA's website:

https://www.usada.org/testing/results/sanctions/

They show that the Miyaos, Braulio Estima, Felipe Pena, etc have all violated...no mentioned of the Mendes brothers.

That's what I find so strange...if IBJJF (Gracie Barra), wanted to cover up certain violators- wouldnt they do it for Pena and Estima instead? Why would they care about giving the Mendes brothers a pass?

It's a good question. I think usada may report you if you continue to compete. In all three cases you mentioned,  estima, Miyao and Pena have continued to compete. Perhaps there is a stipulation that if you retire, they will keep it quiet? 

 

Josh probably didn't get into it because of Galvao 


USADA says they will announce once the appeals process is done. So unless the Mendes brothers have been in appeals for years, they did not test positive.

I don't understand the logic of this theory. So USADA who works with a lot of huge organizations to do testing, is willing to risk their reputation and let an organization that pays for 10 tests a year to cover up athletes that test positive. And that organization chooses to cover up the tests for the Mendes brothers for some reason. And also, even though they are covering up the violations, they still feel that they need to suspend them. Not a very good cover up.

This is like the guys that think Michael Jordan's first retirement was actually a suspension by the nba for gambling. Why would they cover it up but also suspend him secretly?

Also, I don't believe Estima has competed in anything under USADA's jurisdiction (just worlds after all) since getting popped, and the others were announced before they competed in worlds again obviously. Unless the theory is that USADA will announce only if you compete in a non USADA event for some reason. Not sure why they would care.

As far as Josh not getting into it, he doesn't seem to be as confrontational with guests. Before he had Galvao on, he said that he would ask him about Keenan but he never did.
6 days ago
12/1/00
Posts: 17126
^ Excellent points.

I figure the rumors are just false at this point.
6 days ago
8/15/07
Posts: 16987
kying418 - So USADA doesn't need to post who failed their tests if the IBJJF tell them not to?

How is that possible?

This is the same USADA that is blatantly allowing Jon Jones to use PEDs.
6 days ago
2/21/11
Posts: 6411
Maybe back in their infancy they did not report as much, especially high profile people?

Who was outed before the Mendes Bros retired?
4 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 14695
forumnewb - 
juanderlei - 

I’ve been told by high level black belts at Atos that Rafa failed and then by a black belt world champ that Gui did too. I’m a huge fan of both guys, but they are not popular amongst their peers and even some of their Atos teammates, so it could be hate or jealousy. 


How about Cobrinha?

He's probably juiced up, right?

Nope, when I say he is against I mean it. He is the most anal guy about anything he ingests and even w supplements as he wants longevity. For him its not worth long term health issues and he is very against it.
4 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 14696
juanderlei - 

I’ve been told by high level black belts at Atos that Rafa failed and then by a black belt world champ that Gui did too. I’m a huge fan of both guys, but they are not popular amongst their peers and even some of their Atos teammates, so it could be hate or jealousy. 


Heard the same from some people I know at Atos as well.
4 days ago
9/13/16
Posts: 1381
Hunter V - 
forumnewb - 
juanderlei - 

I’ve been told by high level black belts at Atos that Rafa failed and then by a black belt world champ that Gui did too. I’m a huge fan of both guys, but they are not popular amongst their peers and even some of their Atos teammates, so it could be hate or jealousy. 


How about Cobrinha?

He's probably juiced up, right?

Nope, when I say he is against I mean it. He is the most anal guy about anything he ingests and even w supplements as he wants longevity. For him its not worth long term health issues and he is very against it.

i'd be more surprised if cobrinha was NOT doping. he has the physical appearance of someone who dopes. plus he was doing some insane things for his age. he was pushing 40 when he won the grand slam in 2017.

he kind of reminds me of lance armstrong. he's in a sport with dopers and yet somehow he dominates it while being natty? i just don't believe.

i'm a big cobrinha fan too. i'm just not convinced that he's natty.
4 days ago
2/2/08
Posts: 12320
tapnaporsnapbro - 
Hunter V - 
forumnewb - 
juanderlei - 

I’ve been told by high level black belts at Atos that Rafa failed and then by a black belt world champ that Gui did too. I’m a huge fan of both guys, but they are not popular amongst their peers and even some of their Atos teammates, so it could be hate or jealousy. 


How about Cobrinha?

He's probably juiced up, right?

Nope, when I say he is against I mean it. He is the most anal guy about anything he ingests and even w supplements as he wants longevity. For him its not worth long term health issues and he is very against it.

i'd be more surprised if cobrinha was NOT doping. he has the physical appearance of someone who dopes. plus he was doing some insane things for his age. he was pushing 40 when he won the grand slam in 2017.

he kind of reminds me of lance armstrong. he's in a sport with dopers and yet somehow he dominates it while being natty? i just don't believe.

i'm a big cobrinha fan too. i'm just not convinced that he's natty.

Holy crap.

Cobrinha is 40+?
4 days ago
5/11/09
Posts: 1070
tapnaporsnapbro -
Hunter V - 
forumnewb - 
juanderlei - 

I’ve been told by high level black belts at Atos that Rafa failed and then by a black belt world champ that Gui did too. I’m a huge fan of both guys, but they are not popular amongst their peers and even some of their Atos teammates, so it could be hate or jealousy. 


How about Cobrinha?

He's probably juiced up, right?

Nope, when I say he is against I mean it. He is the most anal guy about anything he ingests and even w supplements as he wants longevity. For him its not worth long term health issues and he is very against it.

i'd be more surprised if cobrinha was NOT doping. he has the physical appearance of someone who dopes. plus he was doing some insane things for his age. he was pushing 40 when he won the grand slam in 2017.

he kind of reminds me of lance armstrong. he's in a sport with dopers and yet somehow he dominates it while being natty? i just don't believe.

i'm a big cobrinha fan too. i'm just not convinced that he's natty.

Looking at someone’s physique (with a few exceptions of course) is a terrible way to determine whether or not they’re taking PED’s. I have a friend who looks like a Greek god with a 500lbs + bench press that has never touched a performance enhancing drug in his life. Several years ago he tore his pec before AAU Nationals and close gripped 460lbs to win the competition. He’s a freak and Cobrinha could very well be the same. I also have friends who I know have taken steroids that look like they’ve never touched a weight in their life. The eyeball test is a terrible indicator of drug use. 

4 days ago
9/13/16
Posts: 1382
juanderlei - 
tapnaporsnapbro -
Hunter V - 
forumnewb - 
juanderlei - 

I’ve been told by high level black belts at Atos that Rafa failed and then by a black belt world champ that Gui did too. I’m a huge fan of both guys, but they are not popular amongst their peers and even some of their Atos teammates, so it could be hate or jealousy. 


How about Cobrinha?

He's probably juiced up, right?

Nope, when I say he is against I mean it. He is the most anal guy about anything he ingests and even w supplements as he wants longevity. For him its not worth long term health issues and he is very against it.

i'd be more surprised if cobrinha was NOT doping. he has the physical appearance of someone who dopes. plus he was doing some insane things for his age. he was pushing 40 when he won the grand slam in 2017.

he kind of reminds me of lance armstrong. he's in a sport with dopers and yet somehow he dominates it while being natty? i just don't believe.

i'm a big cobrinha fan too. i'm just not convinced that he's natty.

Looking at someone’s physique (with a few exceptions of course) is a terrible way to determine whether or not they’re taking PED’s. I have a friend who looks like a Greek god with a 500lbs + bench press that has never touched a performance enhancing drug in his life. Several years ago he tore his pec before AAU Nationals and close gripped 460lbs to win the competition. He’s a freak and Cobrinha could very well be the same. I also have friends who I know have taken steroids that look like they’ve never touched a weight in their life. The eyeball test is a terrible indicator of drug use. 


he could be a freak. that is definitely possible. he could be doping too. my feeling is that doping is more likely in his case.

again i want to say that i'm a fan of cobrinha. to me it doesn't really matter whether he dopes or not. he's arguably the GOAT and the people i know only have good things to say about him.
4 days ago
6/7/13
Posts: 821
Hunter V -
forumnewb - 
juanderlei - 

I’ve been told by high level black belts at Atos that Rafa failed and then by a black belt world champ that Gui did too. I’m a huge fan of both guys, but they are not popular amongst their peers and even some of their Atos teammates, so it could be hate or jealousy. 


How about Cobrinha?

He's probably juiced up, right?

Nope, when I say he is against I mean it. He is the most anal guy about anything he ingests and even w supplements as he wants longevity. For him its not worth long term health issues and he is very against it.

the guy hasnt even had a drink in years. 

hes as straight-laced as they come.

Edited: 4 days ago
7/30/03
Posts: 7389

 

4 days ago
3/20/14
Posts: 904
von krap -
Hunter V -
forumnewb - 
juanderlei - 

I’ve been told by high level black belts at Atos that Rafa failed and then by a black belt world champ that Gui did too. I’m a huge fan of both guys, but they are not popular amongst their peers and even some of their Atos teammates, so it could be hate or jealousy. 


How about Cobrinha?

He's probably juiced up, right?

Nope, when I say he is against I mean it. He is the most anal guy about anything he ingests and even w supplements as he wants longevity. For him its not worth long term health issues and he is very against it.

the guy hasnt even had a drink in years. 

hes as straight-laced as they come.

That’s good to hear about Cobrinha. I’ve know guys ripped like him who are metabolically gifted. 

3 days ago
2/15/14
Posts: 701
tapnaporsnapbro -
juanderlei - 
tapnaporsnapbro -
Hunter V - 
forumnewb - 
juanderlei - 

I’ve been told by high level black belts at Atos that Rafa failed and then by a black belt world champ that Gui did too. I’m a huge fan of both guys, but they are not popular amongst their peers and even some of their Atos teammates, so it could be hate or jealousy. 


How about Cobrinha?

He's probably juiced up, right?

Nope, when I say he is against I mean it. He is the most anal guy about anything he ingests and even w supplements as he wants longevity. For him its not worth long term health issues and he is very against it.

i'd be more surprised if cobrinha was NOT doping. he has the physical appearance of someone who dopes. plus he was doing some insane things for his age. he was pushing 40 when he won the grand slam in 2017.

he kind of reminds me of lance armstrong. he's in a sport with dopers and yet somehow he dominates it while being natty? i just don't believe.

i'm a big cobrinha fan too. i'm just not convinced that he's natty.

Looking at someone’s physique (with a few exceptions of course) is a terrible way to determine whether or not they’re taking PED’s. I have a friend who looks like a Greek god with a 500lbs + bench press that has never touched a performance enhancing drug in his life. Several years ago he tore his pec before AAU Nationals and close gripped 460lbs to win the competition. He’s a freak and Cobrinha could very well be the same. I also have friends who I know have taken steroids that look like they’ve never touched a weight in their life. The eyeball test is a terrible indicator of drug use. 


he could be a freak. that is definitely possible. he could be doping too. my feeling is that doping is more likely in his case.

again i want to say that i'm a fan of cobrinha. to me it doesn't really matter whether he dopes or not. he's arguably the GOAT and the people i know only have good things to say about him.

I think he is defintely a freak....look at him, he started training BJJ at age 21 and got his black belt in 5 yrs.....thats aready an indicator of talent, hard work, good work ethics, and likely being physically gifted in addition to years of physical development doing capoeira. In addition, if you've seen pictures of him doing capoeira before he started BJJ, his physique is very similar to how it is now, he just wasn't quite as buff or filled out. He was already quite lean with a near 8 pack