David Jacobs' BJJGround Instructor got black belt - doesn't train much now

11/14/19 8:04 AM
12/1/00
Posts: 17137
Like others have said- 10 classes, with a 9 to 5 job is a ton.

My senior students used to give me (some) grief when I didn't roll with them as much. But then I had them teach classes on a more regular basis for me...and guess what? They didn't roll as much during the classes they taught as well. It is a big responsibility teaching and leading a class, and it is mentally tiring as well- all of which do not contribute to your own rolling.

Besides that, I also like to think for all the people that wish I trained more, they can get back to me after they have also trained for 19+ years :)
11/14/19 9:49 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 1929

I am a brown belt and couldn’t care less if I roll with my instructor.  I’ve got 30 pounds of him and am a few years younger.  We roll on occasion, but he isn’t the roll that gets me better.  His wealth of knowledge, his system, his ability to teach is what makes me better. He calls guys out to roll to check their improvement to see how their game has changed.  When I was a whit and blue belt I would get pissed if the instructor didn’t roll with me.  I thought I might beat them.  I thought I had come close the last roll.  I didn’t realize that I came as close as they let me. 
 

I wouldn’t worry about how much your instructor tolls and pay attention to how they teach. That is the only thing that matters at the end of the day. 

11/14/19 11:38 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 560
AmericanJJ - 

If your intsrutor is a blue, purple, brown, new or old black belt and doesnt train = Go find a new gym!

I'm in my late 40's and have been training for 25yrs. Black belt for 15yrs. I train 4-6 days a week. And I run an academy. It's my job. 

The intsructor has an obligation to train or get out of the way. This is what causes the whole "sport vs self defense" "old school vs new school" BS. A bunch of lazy dudes that dont train anymore and can't deal with the sport evolving without them need an excuse. Their only hope of saving face is to say either their style of BJJ is more deadly (oldest martial arts trick in the book) or that the "old school" is better. Whatever the hell that means. Anyone who has been training for more than 10yrs consistanct knows that BJJ gets better and better. 

 

A good instructor trains! It doesnt need to be 100% every day, but they sweat. The stay up to date. They are involved. A wall sitter needs to stop teaching and beocome a business owner and a fan.  

 

Find an instructor that isn't lazy. 


I know where you are coming from and I agree for the most part but I don't think anyone is thinking John Danaher does not roll, time to find a new gym.

11/14/19 11:43 AM
2/1/08
Posts: 1639
AmericanJJ -
misterw -
AmericanJJ -

If your intsrutor is a blue, purple, brown, new or old black belt and doesnt train = Go find a new gym!

I'm in my late 40's and have been training for 25yrs. Black belt for 15yrs. I train 4-6 days a week. And I run an academy. It's my job. 

The intsructor has an obligation to train or get out of the way. This is what causes the whole "sport vs self defense" "old school vs new school" BS. A bunch of lazy dudes that dont train anymore and can't deal with the sport evolving without them need an excuse. Their only hope of saving face is to say either their style of BJJ is more deadly (oldest martial arts trick in the book) or that the "old school" is better. Whatever the hell that means. Anyone who has been training for more than 10yrs consistanct knows that BJJ gets better and better. 

 

A good instructor trains! It doesnt need to be 100% every day, but they sweat. The stay up to date. They are involved. A wall sitter needs to stop teaching and beocome a business owner and a fan.  

 

Find an instructor that isn't lazy. 

So what happens when you get too old to train the way you say you are doing, but still have a lifetime's worth of accumulated knowledge?  

I didn’t say that you need to train like it’s the world championships. I said you need to train. That means be on the mat and sweat, learn, move. He said his instructor doesn’t train at all or barely.  
 

I know 70yr old black belts, guys with long term injuries, hectic lives, etc who train 3-5x week. They are smart. They train to their level and ability. They aren’t using age or injuries as an excuse. They are still grinding. I think OP said his instructor is healthy, not too old and has no limitations. No real excuse. He just doesn’t train = lame. 

A good instructor is also involved in daily training. He runs sparring. He either trains with the class or oversees it. He sets Traning partners and the goal of the sparring. They know the students limitations and goals. He partners or puts people in groups accordingly. You don’t let these issues exist. Again, the killers go with killers, the older guys with older guys, the regular people with eachother, etc. you can’t have Mundial champs 3wks out from a comp forced to train with a 50yr old 9-5 blue belt. It’s not fair for either of them. 
Don’t get me started on “wall sitting” and partner avoidance. 
 

You may not have the intent of training like its the world championships, but rolls with bigger, younger guys who are intent on proving themselves and have difficulty monitoring their intensity when they get excited can end up being physically demanding whether you want them to or not.  You have a finite capacity to endure physical stress and a finite number of years to train -- do you want to spend these finite resources on those types of rolls?  

 

The 70 year old blackbelt who still train 3-5x a week are the rarest of the rare.  It's a data point hardly worth mentioning.  Most people begin accumulating chronic injuries long, long before that.  Jiu Jitsu is tough on your body and your ability to recover even in your 30s can be quite reduced.  I don't think the OP ever said how old his coach was.  

 

I don't know what the exact situation is, but I wouldn't be so quick to judge without knowing all the details.  

11/14/19 11:56 AM
2/5/06
Posts: 3174
phil the void -

Not sure exactly how I feel about this, but it’s interesting to me that this standard or expectation does not exist in other sports. No players get upset that Bill Belichick or Phil Jackson aren’t scrimmaging with their players.

This. 

Edited: 11/14/19 12:39 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 4518
tf1 - 
phil the void -

Not sure exactly how I feel about this, but it’s interesting to me that this standard or expectation does not exist in other sports. No players get upset that Bill Belichick or Phil Jackson aren’t scrimmaging with their players.

This. 

 

One of my judo coaches is a 9th degree red belt in judo and he is so oold that he said he used to be uke for Mifune (look him up).

 

 
That sone of a bitch has not once rolled or done any standup with me.
Fuck that guy.
 
I think i need to switch schools.
 ---- sarcasm-----
 
11/14/19 12:57 PM
9/9/02
Posts: 13135
Depends, if the instructor is actively coaching while rolling is going on, watching, giving advice before and after, that should be good enough, actually probably better overall for you/the class then just rolling with everyone

Of course, it's good to get those rolls in with the instructor, but my thoughts have changed over the years, rolls are good because that has generally been the BJJ standard over the years, but an instructor that is actively watching, giving tips etc...is probably better

Now, if they just show a couple techs, then walk off, talk to there buddies, BS with the higher belts/front desk, go into the office when everyone rolls etc...then you got a problem lol
11/14/19 1:03 PM
9/9/02
Posts: 13136
I like to roll after teaching, that's the fun part lol, but I like to take some rounds off and watch and coach, it really helps IMO
11/14/19 1:08 PM
3/6/07
Posts: 5576

The art is hard on the body. Don’t care if it’s the gentle art. 
 

as long as they teach and help and still are on the mat, they don’t need to roll like getting ready for the worlds. 

11/14/19 3:02 PM
9/26/07
Posts: 720

I'm 40 years old and have been coaching full time for the last ten years. I do all the rolling rounds  in at least one class every day. So usually a minimum of 30 mins of 5 min rounds every day. To be honest though this isn't for the benefit of my students. I do it because I enjoy it and want to keep training and improving. I sometimes think that my students would benefit much more if I wasn't sparring and instead was actively watching and correcting their technique while they rolled. 
I can also totally understand why some instructors chose not to roll or a very selective. As a coach you see so many people come and go. If you're a life long martial artist what's the point in risking injury just to impress or keep happy the guy who's going to quit bjj and go back CrossFit after 3 months. 

11/14/19 3:35 PM
3/15/15
Posts: 12450
Denis Kelly - 

I'm 40 years old and have been coaching full time for the last ten years. I do all the rolling rounds  in at least one class every day. So usually a minimum of 30 mins of 5 min rounds every day. To be honest though this isn't for the benefit of my students. I do it because I enjoy it and want to keep training and improving. I sometimes think that my students would benefit much more if I wasn't sparring and instead was actively watching and correcting their technique while they rolled. 
I can also totally understand why some instructors chose not to roll or a very selective. As a coach you see so many people come and go. If you're a life long martial artist what's the point in risking injury just to impress or keep happy the guy who's going to quit bjj and go back CrossFit after 3 months. 


Denis, I was the same until I hit about 43 and then my body started breaking down. Now I can't anything beyond a light roll a few times a year.
11/14/19 4:47 PM
2/27/08
Posts: 1733
Thanks for the responses and perspectives.


Overall training there is a net positive and as I've said he's a good instructor.
11/14/19 8:00 PM
2/15/14
Posts: 762
Denis Kelly -

I'm 40 years old and have been coaching full time for the last ten years. I do all the rolling rounds  in at least one class every day. So usually a minimum of 30 mins of 5 min rounds every day. To be honest though this isn't for the benefit of my students. I do it because I enjoy it and want to keep training and improving. I sometimes think that my students would benefit much more if I wasn't sparring and instead was actively watching and correcting their technique while they rolled. 
I can also totally understand why some instructors chose not to roll or a very selective. As a coach you see so many people come and go. If you're a life long martial artist what's the point in risking injury just to impress or keep happy the guy who's going to quit bjj and go back CrossFit after 3 months. 

in this case, how do you avoid rolling or politely select your rolling partners? sometimes Im sure one of those super crazy spazzy white belts will at one point ask you to roll a round

11/14/19 8:30 PM
9/26/07
Posts: 721
mideastgrappler -
Denis Kelly -

I'm 40 years old and have been coaching full time for the last ten years. I do all the rolling rounds  in at least one class every day. So usually a minimum of 30 mins of 5 min rounds every day. To be honest though this isn't for the benefit of my students. I do it because I enjoy it and want to keep training and improving. I sometimes think that my students would benefit much more if I wasn't sparring and instead was actively watching and correcting their technique while they rolled. 
I can also totally understand why some instructors chose not to roll or a very selective. As a coach you see so many people come and go. If you're a life long martial artist what's the point in risking injury just to impress or keep happy the guy who's going to quit bjj and go back CrossFit after 3 months. 

in this case, how do you avoid rolling or politely select your rolling partners? sometimes Im sure one of those super crazy spazzy white belts will at one point ask you to roll a round

Yeah there's a few that I really don't enjoy sparring with but I still do anyway but obviously not as frequently as the people I enjoy rolling with. Against the spazzy newbies I use my Rickson Gracie gameplan, tight crushing guard passing and holding them in side control, mount or back control where I'm not at risk of flying elbows and knees. 
Against more experienced guys I use totally different techniques, I feel I can experiment with lots more options without the partner using unpredictable explosive movements or even worse just balling up to survive the round. 

11/14/19 8:45 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 8893

40 is still young. Just wait a few years, as someone said it’s like night and day. Recovery ability takes a huge hit. And 50 plus year old instructors have no obligation to roll with their students IMO. A coach is not a training partner. 

11/14/19 9:34 PM
10/27/03
Posts: 24867
Fast Pitch - 

40 is still young. Just wait a few years, as someone said it’s like night and day. Recovery ability takes a huge hit. And 50 plus year old instructors have no obligation to roll with their students IMO. A coach is not a training partner. 


40 is not young.
It's a significant drop off from 30.
It's only young if you're even older and wishing you were 'only' 40. :)
Edited: 11/14/19 9:53 PM
4/30/06
Posts: 386

I guess it's up to the individual. For those who want to waste a minute reading about my life :-- 

 

I'm almost 42, had my black belt for 16 years, and do both - own a full-time school and also work in an office 9 to 5 in IT. 

10+ years ago when I was actively competing in every major comp, then I'd roll every night and do running and weights in my lunch break. 

nowadays I've expanded my school to morning, midday, kids and adults evening classes ... but I only teach 3 of the classes and only roll in 2 of them. The only reason I still roll is because I still enjoy training and also use it to grade my students (I grade the old school way). 

Plus my 6 and 8 yo sons train in the kids classes and I want to be training with them when they're older. Oh, and I have a bulging C7 disc in my neck so I don't feel like looking at a computer screen sidweays all day like I've done in the past. 

 

In regards to the comment about 40 being young ... ever since I turned 40 my body just does not seem to recover. No way I could do the 2 to 3 sessions a day like I used to. At 30 I was in the prime of my life and now I sport the typical dad-bod. Goals change, now it's about my kids and family. 

11/14/19 10:31 PM
12/31/10
Posts: 4032
FingerorMoon -
Fast Pitch - 

40 is still young. Just wait a few years, as someone said it’s like night and day. Recovery ability takes a huge hit. And 50 plus year old instructors have no obligation to roll with their students IMO. A coach is not a training partner. 


40 is not young.
It's a significant drop off from 30.
It's only young if you're even older and wishing you were 'only' 40. :)

For me the drop off between 30 and 40 did not seem anywhere near as substantial as 40 to 50. I'm about to turn 49. I can't even imagine training like I did at 39 now. When I was 39 I still felt old compared to 25 year old training partners. But I could train 3-5 hours a day. I'm happy to get 4-5 hours a week with maybe 30 minutes of that relatively hard rolling.

11/15/19 12:00 PM
11/11/11
Posts: 23609

The coach should be engaged in the teaching and learning process. That needs to happen in some shape or form. Its possible it doesnt include rolling. However not rolling might also mean phoning it in and not being engaged. Its really case dependent. Some instructors roll alot(cause they want their own mat time) but they could give a shit during instruction time and goof off on their phone and dont care if anyone is improving.

Edited: 11/15/19 4:31 PM
12/18/03
Posts: 25489

First place I trained had an older instructor: older guy, close to 50, 4th degree black belt who had trained under Marcelo Behring... Very old school, VT oriented jiu-jitsu... Had a TON of knowledge and taught me heel hooks back in 96-97. 

He had already had a stroke, had really bad knees and back, so he never rolled hard... At most he'd get a student he trusted and ask the guy to pass his guard, or get out of side control.

He would, however, pay attention to you rolling and if he noticed something wrong (a posture, move or missed opportunity), he'd stop you right then and there and showed you something that would work for you, based on your attributes, style and body type.

20+ years later I still use those techniques and remember lessons and sayings from this guy. 

Current instructor rolls with almost everyone at every single session, is 100% sport bjj oriented, keeps up to date with the latest trends, competitors, shares videos with the students. 

He rolls hard and is pretty honest about rolling with us upper belts for HIS benefit - whenever we talk about a particular roll, he will mostly ask me about something he did, and only sometimes offer advice or correct me on something he spotted... 

He's more than eager to work with me, however, if I'm working on a particular concept... I showed him some leglock stuff from Lachlan, for example, and he took the whole class to understand it's and drill it with me.

BOTH instructors are awesome in their own ways and I wish I had the privilege of having both around. 

Edited: 11/15/19 2:59 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 8895
FingerorMoon -
Fast Pitch - 

40 is still young. Just wait a few years, as someone said it’s like night and day. Recovery ability takes a huge hit. And 50 plus year old instructors have no obligation to roll with their students IMO. A coach is not a training partner. 


40 is not young.
It's a significant drop off from 30.
It's only young if you're even older and wishing you were 'only' 40. :)

Yes, compared to 51 it’s young. That’s what I meant. 

11/16/19 1:49 AM
3/20/14
Posts: 912

I don't get this. I got my BB at age 51 (almost 5 years ago) and since retiring 3 1/2 years ago and with a friend opening up an affiliate school a mile from my home, I ramped up my training, did a super fight and two local tournaments these past three months. I've got some very active fellow BB friends a bit older than me doing the same thing so I think inspiration can be perpetual.

29 days ago
2/15/14
Posts: 763

coming up from a boxing and muay thai background, I've enver once asked or even cross my mind to ask my coach to spar a single round, and never had a problem with that

29 days ago
4/27/18
Posts: 2027
Denis Kelly -
mideastgrappler -
Denis Kelly -

I'm 40 years old and have been coaching full time for the last ten years. I do all the rolling rounds  in at least one class every day. So usually a minimum of 30 mins of 5 min rounds every day. To be honest though this isn't for the benefit of my students. I do it because I enjoy it and want to keep training and improving. I sometimes think that my students would benefit much more if I wasn't sparring and instead was actively watching and correcting their technique while they rolled. 
I can also totally understand why some instructors chose not to roll or a very selective. As a coach you see so many people come and go. If you're a life long martial artist what's the point in risking injury just to impress or keep happy the guy who's going to quit bjj and go back CrossFit after 3 months. 

in this case, how do you avoid rolling or politely select your rolling partners? sometimes Im sure one of those super crazy spazzy white belts will at one point ask you to roll a round

Yeah there's a few that I really don't enjoy sparring with but I still do anyway but obviously not as frequently as the people I enjoy rolling with. Against the spazzy newbies I use my Rickson Gracie gameplan, tight crushing guard passing and holding them in side control, mount or back control where I'm not at risk of flying elbows and knees. 
Against more experienced guys I use totally different techniques, I feel I can experiment with lots more options without the partner using unpredictable explosive movements or even worse just balling up to survive the round. 

Exactly my gameplay against newbs

29 days ago
6/4/02
Posts: 19044

You don’t see it in wrestling either.  Best coach is that 55 yr old guy in sweats who just knows every detail.  He’s not going to roll with u though