David Jacobs' BJJGround Instructor got black belt - doesn't train much now

24 days ago
2/27/08
Posts: 1724
Have you seen this? Is this you?


He's been a black belt for about 18 months now and his will to train has noticeably decreased. Not a huge issue when it comes to the instruction but ya gotta roll right? You have to drill.


Maybe I expect too much.
24 days ago
10/13/05
Posts: 6142
depends on his age and stage in life. i got my bb in 2012, basically trained 1 to 2x a week for the next 3 years, then got injured and trained less than 10 times a year for the next 3 years.
im in my 40s now, run my own businesses, so training bjj is no longer a priority.
its quite common. unless the guy is a school owner, or instructor, then its not that important what he does with his training. its like complaining about someone that plays rec basketball not training regularly
24 days ago
2/27/08
Posts: 1725
Oh yeah, he's the instructor.
Edited: 24 days ago
12/18/03
Posts: 25471

If anything I have been training more consistently after I got my BB.

I think - for some people - getting a black-belt is a goal that motivates them to train, and after they reach that the drive is gone.

24 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 557
It could be that he wants to "save" his body for being able to teach and demonstrate. When I know I have to teach I taper down my training for this very reason, but I am also in my late 30s where this stuff affects me. Realistically, the coach that will be rolling super hard every class and teaching is likely going to be much younger and a competitor - and even then, that won't last.

My gripe are the people who straight up quit at black belt. I get it and I don't get it. I get it in that priorities shift, injures happen, and we get old and recovery sucks. But a lot of people I know already had their lives established, had kids, and were banged up since purple belt. I just think if this is something you were doing 3x a week for 10-15 years, it must've become part of your life. To use the bb as the demarcation line to quit instead of blue belt is just ugh to me (and salty bc I lose out on quality training partners)
Edited: 24 days ago
5/16/08
Posts: 883

I've been a bjj bb for about 6 years and a Judo bb for about 30 years. So, at 54 I pick and choose when or who I'll train with. Although I have plans to go back to competition next year, I don't roll with anyone I don't pick and I usually prefer to roll with brown belts and higher. Yes, I have to save my already broken body. 

24 days ago
12/1/00
Posts: 17136
I'm not a black belt- but have trained for 19 years, and have had my own school for 7 years.

To be the best instructor for my students, I will often put aside my own training to watch my students roll.

Additionally, after doing something for 19 years, I really don't have the fire to roll all the time- I'm happy to pick and choose and do it a few times a week.

The potential downside is that you might not be teaching or dealing with the latest and greatest techniques. However, I get most of my lesson plans from my teacher (Marcelo Garcia)- so I'm more than confident that what I teach is really good stuff because of him- not because of my own skills on the mat.
23 days ago
10/27/03
Posts: 24841
MarsMan -

If anything I have been training more consistently after I got my BB.

I think - for some people - getting a black-belt is a goal that motivates them to train, and after they reach that the drive is gone.

This.

Can also be the ideal many people have - even if it’s subconscious - that blackbelts are special and having one will change who they are. Then they get there and realize, ‘fuck I’m still the same person. I thought I’d transform into Rickson’

23 days ago
9/13/16
Posts: 1515
People like to pretend that they don’t care about belts but I think that everybody does a little.

So I think that motivates a lot of people to train. If there were no belts and BJJ was just like wrestling or something I think you ms see a lot of people quit earlier
23 days ago
7/31/09
Posts: 5786

Does he do a lot of privates?  

23 days ago
6/14/11
Posts: 555

Not sure exactly how I feel about this, but it’s interesting to me that this standard or expectation does not exist in other sports. No players get upset that Bill Belichick or Phil Jackson aren’t scrimmaging with their players.

23 days ago
2/27/08
Posts: 1726
He's not particularly old. He's not perpetually injured or anything. Just really seems to be resting on his laurels.
23 days ago
2/15/14
Posts: 760
Red Stuff - He's not particularly old. He's not perpetually injured or anything. Just really seems to be resting on his laurels.

does he teach like, 25 classes a week? If so, that could be why.

 

I teach 27 classes a week and I don't train all of them

23 days ago
2/27/08
Posts: 1728

I doubt it. Maybe 10 per week. 

 

There are other priorities - I get it and I ain't judging - but I want my instructor to have enthusiasm for improvement and refinement.

 

And I guess I'm seeing that in him wane over time. And it has to be linked. 

 

Anyway, it's a free market.

23 days ago
10/17/12
Posts: 109

Is jits his only job or does he have a 9-5 too?

 

 

 

23 days ago
7/31/09
Posts: 5789
Red Stuff - He's not particularly old. He's not perpetually injured or anything. Just really seems to be resting on his laurels.

Is he still teaching the same amount of classes as he was before the black belt?

Edited: 23 days ago
11/30/05
Posts: 776

If your intsrutor is a blue, purple, brown, new or old black belt and doesnt train = Go find a new gym!

I'm in my late 40's and have been training for 25yrs. Black belt for 15yrs. I train 4-6 days a week. And I run an academy. It's my job. 

The intsructor has an obligation to train or get out of the way. This is what causes the whole "sport vs self defense" "old school vs new school" BS. A bunch of lazy dudes that dont train anymore and can't deal with the sport evolving without them need an excuse. Their only hope of saving face is to say either their style of BJJ is more deadly (oldest martial arts trick in the book) or that the "old school" is better. Whatever the hell that means. Anyone who has been training for more than 10yrs consistanct knows that BJJ gets better and better. 

 

A good instructor trains! It doesnt need to be 100% every day, but they sweat. The stay up to date. They are involved. A wall sitter needs to stop teaching and beocome a business owner and a fan.  

 

Find an instructor that isn't lazy. 

22 days ago
12/26/02
Posts: 11957
phil the void - 

Not sure exactly how I feel about this, but it’s interesting to me that this standard or expectation does not exist in other sports. No players get upset that Bill Belichick or Phil Jackson aren’t scrimmaging with their players.


I was thinking this as well.  I see some surprising discussion in this thread. 

As a student, you're paying for how good your coach can make YOU, and that has a tricky relationship to his or her skill level on the mats.  Lots of people are great at doing the BJJ but bad at teaching the BJJ. I'd train with an out-of-commission black belt who's a great coach over a super-fit athlete who trains hard every day but can't coach.

Also, there are huge differences between "doesn't train hard all the time" and "doesn't train at all."  How does it affect the quality of your training?  If someone is mad that the coach doesn't work with them anymore, I think that's a highly justified criticism.  But if someone is disappointed that the coach doesn't whoop on other people, then I fail to see the relevance. Is your coach still as motivated about YOUR progress?  Is he or she committed to YOUR training?  Because if those aren't there, take your business elsewhere. But if it's simply about whether the black belt is maintaining the same level of motivation in his or her own training before and immediately after promotion, I think that's a crazy thing to judge.  Is the implication that one's motivation always stays the same? That's definitely not realistic.

 

22 days ago
2/1/08
Posts: 1637
AmericanJJ -

If your intsrutor is a blue, purple, brown, new or old black belt and doesnt train = Go find a new gym!

I'm in my late 40's and have been training for 25yrs. Black belt for 15yrs. I train 4-6 days a week. And I run an academy. It's my job. 

The intsructor has an obligation to train or get out of the way. This is what causes the whole "sport vs self defense" "old school vs new school" BS. A bunch of lazy dudes that dont train anymore and can't deal with the sport evolving without them need an excuse. Their only hope of saving face is to say either their style of BJJ is more deadly (oldest martial arts trick in the book) or that the "old school" is better. Whatever the hell that means. Anyone who has been training for more than 10yrs consistanct knows that BJJ gets better and better. 

 

A good instructor trains! It doesnt need to be 100% every day, but they sweat. The stay up to date. They are involved. A wall sitter needs to stop teaching and beocome a business owner and a fan.  

 

Find an instructor that isn't lazy. 

So what happens when you get too old to train the way you say you are doing, but still have a lifetime's worth of accumulated knowledge?  

22 days ago
2/1/08
Posts: 1638
twinkletoesCT -
phil the void - 

Not sure exactly how I feel about this, but it’s interesting to me that this standard or expectation does not exist in other sports. No players get upset that Bill Belichick or Phil Jackson aren’t scrimmaging with their players.


I was thinking this as well.  I see some surprising discussion in this thread. 

As a student, you're paying for how good your coach can make YOU, and that has a tricky relationship to his or her skill level on the mats.  Lots of people are great at doing the BJJ but bad at teaching the BJJ. I'd train with an out-of-commission black belt who's a great coach over a super-fit athlete who trains hard every day but can't coach.

Also, there are huge differences between "doesn't train hard all the time" and "doesn't train at all."  How does it affect the quality of your training?  If someone is mad that the coach doesn't work with them anymore, I think that's a highly justified criticism.  But if someone is disappointed that the coach doesn't whoop on other people, then I fail to see the relevance. Is your coach still as motivated about YOUR progress?  Is he or she committed to YOUR training?  Because if those aren't there, take your business elsewhere. But if it's simply about whether the black belt is maintaining the same level of motivation in his or her own training before and immediately after promotion, I think that's a crazy thing to judge.  Is the implication that one's motivation always stays the same? That's definitely not realistic.

 

Agreed.  "Does this instructor make my jiu jitsu better?"  is the #1 question.  Whether he's a known badass or an old nobody sitting against the wall doesn't matter to me -- it's my progress that counts. 

22 days ago
2/27/08
Posts: 1729
To answer some specific questions, he doesn't do privates, he does have a 9 to 5 job as well, the number of classes hasn't changed since he became a black belt, and I like his instruction and it definitely makes me better.
22 days ago
2/27/08
Posts: 1730
There's a spectrum here I guess and it's not as if he just sits on the wall and does nothing.



Phil the void said "No players get upset that Bill Belichick or Phil Jackson aren't scrimmaging with their players".

But what if they could scrimmage but just don't? What if they were the best scrimmages in the place and they still don't?
Edited: 22 days ago
2/27/08
Posts: 1731
twinkletoesCT said "Is your coach still as motivated about YOUR progress? Is he or she committed to YOUR training?"

Yes. I can't complain there.

edit: I have to add that I do see it being an issue mid to long term. If we accept that the game is evolving at some higher than average rate then he needs to be putting in the work to know the new game. Not just watch it on youtube like we all do and explain exactly like he's seen it.

And there have been a few little instances of that I think.
22 days ago
2/15/14
Posts: 761
Red Stuff - To answer some specific questions, he doesn't do privates, he does have a 9 to 5 job as well, the number of classes hasn't changed since he became a black belt, and I like his instruction and it definitely makes me better.

10 classes a week is a LOT of classes for someone who also has a 9-5 job. If he didn't have another job, I'd say its a low number.  That is quite a bit 

 

Similar issue but not as much-some people seem upset or maybe bothered that I don't roll with everyone. I'm 140lbs soaking wet, and I still constantly compete. I've had many injuries and chronic nagging stuff from numerous MMA/boxing/& Muay thai fights over a decade ago.

I constantly compete in adult black belt and do okay. I will not roll with 1) spazzy wild dangerous white/blue belts 2) heavyweights that use excessive force 3) people who do not have general safety in mind 

I will roll with on occasion 1) more technical heavyweights who are forceful 2) spazzy lower belts who attempt to use some technique

I don't enjoy the above types of training partners as the training isn't very beneficial other than accumulating mat time but even though I will and can destroy most of them, I don't like risking injury and usually they are not pleasant rolls. Instead, I constantly and will seek out to roll with people who are my size, higher belts, highly technical and competitive. If they are within 20-30lbs of my weight, I still see it as very beneficial. I also don't enjoy rolling with people who are much smaller than me.

 

I think some people in my classes don't really like the way I pick my rolls. But if class has 8+ black belts my size, I do go out of my way to duck every lower belt big or small so I can get my rounds in. My other issue is even though the class has 15-20 people, it seems everyone will sit out of rounds and will wait to match up with me and avoid each other.

Not sure how to address my issues as I teach 27 classes per week and I don't want to risk unneccssary injury but want to make the most out of my mat time. I think some people may see me as snobby, but when I teach, my attention is all on my students. When I train, its all about me.

Edited: 22 days ago
11/30/05
Posts: 777
misterw -
AmericanJJ -

If your intsrutor is a blue, purple, brown, new or old black belt and doesnt train = Go find a new gym!

I'm in my late 40's and have been training for 25yrs. Black belt for 15yrs. I train 4-6 days a week. And I run an academy. It's my job. 

The intsructor has an obligation to train or get out of the way. This is what causes the whole "sport vs self defense" "old school vs new school" BS. A bunch of lazy dudes that dont train anymore and can't deal with the sport evolving without them need an excuse. Their only hope of saving face is to say either their style of BJJ is more deadly (oldest martial arts trick in the book) or that the "old school" is better. Whatever the hell that means. Anyone who has been training for more than 10yrs consistanct knows that BJJ gets better and better. 

 

A good instructor trains! It doesnt need to be 100% every day, but they sweat. The stay up to date. They are involved. A wall sitter needs to stop teaching and beocome a business owner and a fan.  

 

Find an instructor that isn't lazy. 

So what happens when you get too old to train the way you say you are doing, but still have a lifetime's worth of accumulated knowledge?  

I didn’t say that you need to train like it’s the world championships. I said you need to train. That means be on the mat and sweat, learn, move. He said his instructor doesn’t train at all or barely.  
 

I know 70yr old black belts, guys with long term injuries, hectic lives, etc who train 3-5x week. They are smart. They train to their level and ability. They aren’t using age or injuries as an excuse. They are still grinding. I think OP said his instructor is healthy, not too old and has no limitations. No real excuse. He just doesn’t train = lame. 

A good instructor is also involved in daily training. He runs sparring. He either trains with the class or oversees it. He sets Traning partners and the goal of the sparring. They know the students limitations and goals. He partners or puts people in groups accordingly. You don’t let these issues exist. Again, the killers go with killers, the older guys with older guys, the regular people with eachother, etc. you can’t have Mundial champs 3wks out from a comp forced to train with a 50yr old 9-5 blue belt. It’s not fair for either of them. 
Don’t get me started on “wall sitting” and partner avoidance.