28 days ago
11/10/05
Posts: 7483
I really enjoy making vids of small details rather than entire movies. They often make a bigger improvement to your game then a new move. No matter what your game is, you can generally integrate the pretty easily and you can integrate them fairly quickly even before a tournament.

here's a detail to help dominate from mount and can also be done from other dominant positions like kob.



(I have no idea how to embed these days so little help would be appreciated)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nhC0f_w07w
28 days ago
7/18/05
Posts: 7301

I do a very similar thing - it all sprung from Eddie Bravo's arm triangle attack I learned from him years ago and after a lot of reps during training I discovered the same thing you're explaining.

 

I have a few other things that I do:

1. where you explain ear to shoulder - I do that before I even bother attacking the elbow/arm.  Once the neck goes out of alignment the arm slips up, no problem

 

2. To open up the elbows from the sides I do a modified thai plumb I used my elbows as frame on the top of the shoulder, put my opponents' head between each forearm and cup my hands at the top of my opponents' head. By not allowing them to be able to slide up and away from my pressure, my hips can now slide up their arms pretty easily. One of my students came up with that approach, it's genius.

28 days ago
7/30/03
Posts: 9214

28 days ago
3/28/02
Posts: 9253

very nice.  thanks for sharing.

it takes the head & neck out of alignment and makes them weaker, I think

27 days ago
11/10/05
Posts: 7485
Wutang - 

I do a very similar thing - it all sprung from Eddie Bravo's arm triangle attack I learned from him years ago and after a lot of reps during training I discovered the same thing you're explaining.

 

I have a few other things that I do:

1. where you explain ear to shoulder - I do that before I even bother attacking the elbow/arm.  Once the neck goes out of alignment the arm slips up, no problem

 

2. To open up the elbows from the sides I do a modified thai plumb I used my elbows as frame on the top of the shoulder, put my opponents' head between each forearm and cup my hands at the top of my opponents' head. By not allowing them to be able to slide up and away from my pressure, my hips can now slide up their arms pretty easily. One of my students came up with that approach, it's genius.


thanks guys..

Wu... interesting. I usually start with shoulder under the chin driving it up and away eg if I'm transitioning from kob. I can actually tap people just by driving my shoulder into artery. Otherwise I might start with the muy thai clinch or at least pull up on the back of their head to keep them from lifting me and bringing their knees in or their feet in my arm pits. So yeah, I'm often doing that first as well but my main goal for that is different.
27 days ago
2/18/20
Posts: 992

Very nice details.  I've never seen ear to shoulder detail and will definitely try that out.  It looks like it transitions easily to no-Gi as well.

 

* On a SideNote:  Meatgrinder, you should probably just shave your hair really low or bald...you'd look less homeless/crazy.  

27 days ago
11/10/05
Posts: 7486
On a SideNote - 

Very nice details.  I've never seen ear to shoulder detail and will definitely try that out.  It looks like it transitions easily to no-Gi as well.

 

* On a SideNote:  Meatgrinder, you should probably just shave your hair really low or bald...you'd look less homeless/crazy.  


LOL!!! I have been, but my pandemic grooming doesn't always keep up.

At 51 post brain surgery and hoping to still hoping to hang for another adult div comp under my belt I think even with the homeless/crazy look it's still a win. Especially since I roll with a soft helmet and it hurts like a MFer to roll without one.

but yeah.. i think it's even more effective in no-gi because the bottom guy can slide north much easier if you just try to walk the elbow up. Either way, you can really smother the face if you want too which makes the arms come up even easier.

I always like to consider the fight aspect of bjj. So I'd like to get feedback from mma guys if this would be effective in that setting as well. You can drop bombs from a distance, but it's really good for keep one hand completely out of the way while you can rotate you shoulders to get some effective strikes in.

Please come back and post your feedback after you give it a try and please share my channel with your bjj friends. Everything I post is what I do in my game and I think a lot of it has some unique twists on what you generally see
26 days ago
7/18/05
Posts: 7304
Meatgrinder -
Wutang - 

I do a very similar thing - it all sprung from Eddie Bravo's arm triangle attack I learned from him years ago and after a lot of reps during training I discovered the same thing you're explaining.

 

I have a few other things that I do:

1. where you explain ear to shoulder - I do that before I even bother attacking the elbow/arm.  Once the neck goes out of alignment the arm slips up, no problem

 

2. To open up the elbows from the sides I do a modified thai plumb I used my elbows as frame on the top of the shoulder, put my opponents' head between each forearm and cup my hands at the top of my opponents' head. By not allowing them to be able to slide up and away from my pressure, my hips can now slide up their arms pretty easily. One of my students came up with that approach, it's genius.


thanks guys..

Wu... interesting. I usually start with shoulder under the chin driving it up and away eg if I'm transitioning from kob. I can actually tap people just by driving my shoulder into artery. Otherwise I might start with the muy thai clinch or at least pull up on the back of their head to keep them from lifting me and bringing their knees in or their feet in my arm pits. So yeah, I'm often doing that first as well but my main goal for that is different.

Sorry, I totally did not thank you for sharing the video! A lot of good tips for attacking in the mount.

25 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 19260

For later

24 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 19261

Love it.  Now to remember it for the next time I'm on the mat.

24 days ago
2/27/08
Posts: 2096

I really enjoy your vids of small details.

Robert Drysdale taught something like this at a seminar and I think from side control as well. It's all I used to use until someone on this forum said they only ever mount if they've already isolated an arm. That got me thinking and now that's my philosophy as well.

24 days ago
12/26/02
Posts: 12191
Red Stuff - 

I really enjoy your vids of small details.

Robert Drysdale taught something like this at a seminar and I think from side control as well. It's all I used to use until someone on this forum said they only ever mount if they've already isolated an arm. That got me thinking and now that's my philosophy as well.


Not sure if that was me, but the shoe fits.  I only ever mount if the bottom player is kissing one of his biceps. 

24 days ago
8/20/16
Posts: 799
twinkletoesCT -
Red Stuff - 

I really enjoy your vids of small details.

Robert Drysdale taught something like this at a seminar and I think from side control as well. It's all I used to use until someone on this forum said they only ever mount if they've already isolated an arm. That got me thinking and now that's my philosophy as well.


Not sure if that was me, but the shoe fits.  I only ever mount if the bottom player is kissing one of his biceps. 

Are you talking gift wrap / head-and-arm choke? Or is there a different way to isolate the arm that I'm not thinking of?

23 days ago
12/26/02
Posts: 12192
blabbermouth - 
twinkletoesCT -
Red Stuff - 

I really enjoy your vids of small details.

Robert Drysdale taught something like this at a seminar and I think from side control as well. It's all I used to use until someone on this forum said they only ever mount if they've already isolated an arm. That got me thinking and now that's my philosophy as well.


Not sure if that was me, but the shoe fits.  I only ever mount if the bottom player is kissing one of his biceps. 

Are you talking gift wrap / head-and-arm choke? Or is there a different way to isolate the arm that I'm not thinking of?


Not yet, but this is a stage in how I get to triple threat / gift wrap. 

Personal game:  from side, I seek the mount.  The biggest risks in taking mount are bridge & roll and elbow knee.  I find E/K the larger threat, so I need to remove his ability to push on my body with his arms before I get there. Don't you hate when you mount and he's already halfway into his E/K escape? I know I do. You have to manage it ahead of time.  

The near arm is killed first. I do this with my thigh, hip, ribs, or lower back.  In some cases I can kill it with the side of my own body closest to his head. In other cases I use the opposite side of my body first, and then switch to the head-side. But I need to drive that arm against his noggin before I even consider moving to Mount.

While I mount, I need to maintain the pressure that smooshes the first arm against his face.  I will manage his far arm during the transition, but that's far easier.  Ideally I want to land with both of his arms elevated above his shoulderline, at a minimum (against the head is better).  If you ever trained as a lifeguard, it looks like that spinal support position for rolling people over - both of his arms should be straight overhead with his  biceps bracing the sides of his head. 

From this point, I do things with the second arm that look like Meatgrinder's video. I'm crawling his second arm upwards, either with my forearm, my thigh, or my belly.  If he's not letting me touch his tricep, then I'm pressuring the wrist or neck to make him offer the tricep.  

I'm also keeping his face turned.  If I can keep him facing sideways, then there's really only one side of E/K I need to think about. This means I can monitor only one arm if needed.  

For me personally, all this is done to make him turn onto his side and offer me the arm/back.  I'm going to stay heavy on his tricep as he tries to turn, and i'm crowding the head and shoulders. If I maintain pressure on his tricep, he'll expose triple threat / gift wrap.  Then I can take my time letting him give up the back and the arm.  

23 days ago
11/10/05
Posts: 7488
thanks for the feedback guys.

Interesting that others are aware of this detail and know who they got it from. I never really learned it from anyone. I had thought of it from a really old movie called Shogun. The chinese had these huge bows where the people from europe could not pull the string, but the chinese just held the string and pushed the bow... plus as a light guy I'm always used to moving myself at least as much as my opponent. The only thing that matters is our relative position not how we got there. I do try to only make vids where I think I have something relatively unique to offer even if it's a small detail. I don't want to make something that you see everywhere else.


Note another important small detail at the :25s mark where I decided to change "can't get it up" to "..up there". LOL


twinks...
with respect to the strategy of the battle with arm on the side his head is turned towards, you might want to consider my one-legged grapevine approach. I show it leading to s-mount but I also do a lot of mounted triangles from there.

These days a lot of my mount transitions come from a lot of guillotine or chin straps, but I'll even kill the near arm with my knee and go to mount with one arm trapped, especially if I have the chin strap too.

23 days ago
8/20/16
Posts: 805
twinkletoesCT -
blabbermouth - 
twinkletoesCT -
Red Stuff - 

I really enjoy your vids of small details.

Robert Drysdale taught something like this at a seminar and I think from side control as well. It's all I used to use until someone on this forum said they only ever mount if they've already isolated an arm. That got me thinking and now that's my philosophy as well.


Not sure if that was me, but the shoe fits.  I only ever mount if the bottom player is kissing one of his biceps. 

Are you talking gift wrap / head-and-arm choke? Or is there a different way to isolate the arm that I'm not thinking of?


Not yet, but this is a stage in how I get to triple threat / gift wrap. 

Personal game:  from side, I seek the mount.  The biggest risks in taking mount are bridge & roll and elbow knee.  I find E/K the larger threat, so I need to remove his ability to push on my body with his arms before I get there. Don't you hate when you mount and he's already halfway into his E/K escape? I know I do. You have to manage it ahead of time.  

The near arm is killed first. I do this with my thigh, hip, ribs, or lower back.  In some cases I can kill it with the side of my own body closest to his head. In other cases I use the opposite side of my body first, and then switch to the head-side. But I need to drive that arm against his noggin before I even consider moving to Mount.

While I mount, I need to maintain the pressure that smooshes the first arm against his face.  I will manage his far arm during the transition, but that's far easier.  Ideally I want to land with both of his arms elevated above his shoulderline, at a minimum (against the head is better).  If you ever trained as a lifeguard, it looks like that spinal support position for rolling people over - both of his arms should be straight overhead with his  biceps bracing the sides of his head. 

From this point, I do things with the second arm that look like Meatgrinder's video. I'm crawling his second arm upwards, either with my forearm, my thigh, or my belly.  If he's not letting me touch his tricep, then I'm pressuring the wrist or neck to make him offer the tricep.  

I'm also keeping his face turned.  If I can keep him facing sideways, then there's really only one side of E/K I need to think about. This means I can monitor only one arm if needed.  

For me personally, all this is done to make him turn onto his side and offer me the arm/back.  I'm going to stay heavy on his tricep as he tries to turn, and i'm crowding the head and shoulders. If I maintain pressure on his tricep, he'll expose triple threat / gift wrap.  Then I can take my time letting him give up the back and the arm.  

Thanks for the write-up! So your primary goal is literally just to mash his arm-frame against his face, any way you can. That makes sense. It didn't make sense to me that you would only mount if you had a gift wrap.

23 days ago
12/26/02
Posts: 12193
blabbermouth - 
twinkletoesCT -
blabbermouth - 
twinkletoesCT -
Red Stuff - 

I really enjoy your vids of small details.

Robert Drysdale taught something like this at a seminar and I think from side control as well. It's all I used to use until someone on this forum said they only ever mount if they've already isolated an arm. That got me thinking and now that's my philosophy as well.


Not sure if that was me, but the shoe fits.  I only ever mount if the bottom player is kissing one of his biceps. 

Are you talking gift wrap / head-and-arm choke? Or is there a different way to isolate the arm that I'm not thinking of?


Not yet, but this is a stage in how I get to triple threat / gift wrap. 

Personal game:  from side, I seek the mount.  The biggest risks in taking mount are bridge & roll and elbow knee.  I find E/K the larger threat, so I need to remove his ability to push on my body with his arms before I get there. Don't you hate when you mount and he's already halfway into his E/K escape? I know I do. You have to manage it ahead of time.  

The near arm is killed first. I do this with my thigh, hip, ribs, or lower back.  In some cases I can kill it with the side of my own body closest to his head. In other cases I use the opposite side of my body first, and then switch to the head-side. But I need to drive that arm against his noggin before I even consider moving to Mount.

While I mount, I need to maintain the pressure that smooshes the first arm against his face.  I will manage his far arm during the transition, but that's far easier.  Ideally I want to land with both of his arms elevated above his shoulderline, at a minimum (against the head is better).  If you ever trained as a lifeguard, it looks like that spinal support position for rolling people over - both of his arms should be straight overhead with his  biceps bracing the sides of his head. 

From this point, I do things with the second arm that look like Meatgrinder's video. I'm crawling his second arm upwards, either with my forearm, my thigh, or my belly.  If he's not letting me touch his tricep, then I'm pressuring the wrist or neck to make him offer the tricep.  

I'm also keeping his face turned.  If I can keep him facing sideways, then there's really only one side of E/K I need to think about. This means I can monitor only one arm if needed.  

For me personally, all this is done to make him turn onto his side and offer me the arm/back.  I'm going to stay heavy on his tricep as he tries to turn, and i'm crowding the head and shoulders. If I maintain pressure on his tricep, he'll expose triple threat / gift wrap.  Then I can take my time letting him give up the back and the arm.  

Thanks for the write-up! So your primary goal is literally just to mash his arm-frame against his face, any way you can. That makes sense. It didn't make sense to me that you would only mount if you had a gift wrap.


Exactly right. Smash the frames before you get there, keep them smashed while you're there and the giftwrap will present itself. 

22 days ago
2/25/20
Posts: 2

I've always maintained mount the way Roger Gracie taught in his youtube video. It's very easy for me because it only requires me to obey a few rules:

 

1) soles of my feet are glued to my opponent's body at all times

2) the movement of my opponent's head has to be severely restricted

3) my arms must always be between his legs

 

It's made a lot of sense for me. Nowadays I teach my students how to bridge-and-roll the Rickson way. That entire escape is killed so long as I obey rule (2) since his ear will never connect with his shoulder. Elbow-knee connection will also always remain impossible so long as rule (1) is obeyed.

All other escapes will be imperfect. That's where the submissions or backtakes come in.

22 days ago
8/20/16
Posts: 806
shootbjj -

I've always maintained mount the way Roger Gracie taught in his youtube video. It's very easy for me because it only requires me to obey a few rules:

 

1) soles of my feet are glued to my opponent's body at all times

2) the movement of my opponent's head has to be severely restricted

3) my arms must always be between his legs

 

It's made a lot of sense for me. Nowadays I teach my students how to bridge-and-roll the Rickson way. That entire escape is killed so long as I obey rule (2) since his ear will never connect with his shoulder. Elbow-knee connection will also always remain impossible so long as rule (1) is obeyed.

All other escapes will be imperfect. That's where the submissions or backtakes come in.

"3) my arms must always be between his legs"

 

Can you explain? I can't figure this one out at all.

Edited: 22 days ago
2/25/20
Posts: 3
blabbermouth -
shootbjj -

I've always maintained mount the way Roger Gracie taught in his youtube video. It's very easy for me because it only requires me to obey a few rules:

 

1) soles of my feet are glued to my opponent's body at all times

2) the movement of my opponent's head has to be severely restricted

3) my arms must always be between his legs

 

It's made a lot of sense for me. Nowadays I teach my students how to bridge-and-roll the Rickson way. That entire escape is killed so long as I obey rule (2) since his ear will never connect with his shoulder. Elbow-knee connection will also always remain impossible so long as rule (1) is obeyed.

All other escapes will be imperfect. That's where the submissions or backtakes come in.

"3) my arms must always be between his legs"

 

Can you explain? I can't figure this one out at all.

Basically I never want to allow the Anderson Silva-Travis Lutter mount escape to happen, so my elbows (and by extension, my arms) are always as close to my torso as the situation allows. I've found that it ties in with rule 2 when I use a one-armed can opener to control my opponent's head movement. You can also use two arms, but I prefer keeping one free to attack.

If I break rule 3, I have no arms to control the head and hence break rule 2. This is when my opponent can escape.

22 days ago
9/10/13
Posts: 2787

Nice. I use the opposite move to shut down a deep elbow escape. Never thought to reverse it to get the elbow up. I wonder what else I can reverse hmm...

22 days ago
11/10/05
Posts: 7489
shootbjj - 
blabbermouth -
shootbjj -

I've always maintained mount the way Roger Gracie taught in his youtube video. It's very easy for me because it only requires me to obey a few rules:

 

1) soles of my feet are glued to my opponent's body at all times

2) the movement of my opponent's head has to be severely restricted

3) my arms must always be between his legs

 

It's made a lot of sense for me. Nowadays I teach my students how to bridge-and-roll the Rickson way. That entire escape is killed so long as I obey rule (2) since his ear will never connect with his shoulder. Elbow-knee connection will also always remain impossible so long as rule (1) is obeyed.

All other escapes will be imperfect. That's where the submissions or backtakes come in.

"3) my arms must always be between his legs"

 

Can you explain? I can't figure this one out at all.

Basically I never want to allow the Anderson Silva-Travis Lutter mount escape to happen, so my elbows (and by extension, my arms) are always as close to my torso as the situation allows. I've found that it ties in with rule 2 when I use a one-armed can opener to control my opponent's head movement. You can also use two arms, but I prefer keeping one free to attack.

If I break rule 3, I have no arms to control the head and hence break rule 2. This is when my opponent can escape.


I don't remember how the silva/lutter thing happened but I generally don't let my elbows to extend out sideways away from my torso to prevent his legs from coming in. However another way to help prevent this is to lift up his head and use up the curvature of his spine that way.
22 days ago
12/26/02
Posts: 12195

IIRC Silva/Lutter was that Silva pushed up with his arms but laid on Travis' foot so he couldn't spin.  I only think I remember that because Roy Harris finds it funny to do this too. It's highly frustrating on the receiving end. 

I could be wrong. Maybe it was only similar to that. 

22 days ago
2/25/20
Posts: 4
Meatgrinder -
shootbjj - 
blabbermouth -
shootbjj -

I've always maintained mount the way Roger Gracie taught in his youtube video. It's very easy for me because it only requires me to obey a few rules:

 

1) soles of my feet are glued to my opponent's body at all times

2) the movement of my opponent's head has to be severely restricted

3) my arms must always be between his legs

 

It's made a lot of sense for me. Nowadays I teach my students how to bridge-and-roll the Rickson way. That entire escape is killed so long as I obey rule (2) since his ear will never connect with his shoulder. Elbow-knee connection will also always remain impossible so long as rule (1) is obeyed.

All other escapes will be imperfect. That's where the submissions or backtakes come in.

"3) my arms must always be between his legs"

 

Can you explain? I can't figure this one out at all.

Basically I never want to allow the Anderson Silva-Travis Lutter mount escape to happen, so my elbows (and by extension, my arms) are always as close to my torso as the situation allows. I've found that it ties in with rule 2 when I use a one-armed can opener to control my opponent's head movement. You can also use two arms, but I prefer keeping one free to attack.

If I break rule 3, I have no arms to control the head and hence break rule 2. This is when my opponent can escape.


I don't remember how the silva/lutter thing happened but I generally don't let my elbows to extend out sideways away from my torso to prevent his legs from coming in. However another way to help prevent this is to lift up his head and use up the curvature of his spine that way.

This sounds exactly like what I do too