David Jacobs' BJJGround Now that GU has all their PB techs out other...

8/10/18 2:54 PM
11/20/15
Posts: 4177

... than the last standing/takedown/weapons chapter, I want to talk about whether all those techs are really what a PB must know to be a purple.

I've had a couple black belts tell me that if you actually mastered all those techs you're a high level black belt, that they don't even know all that shit.

Not sure why it matters to me, probably because I'm not a purple belt and am in a bit of information overload/shock that someone would know all that stuff and only be a purple and because I don't have anything better to do today, thanks.

8/10/18 3:31 PM
1/9/18
Posts: 497

is this on a website or posted somewhere?  I have the list of a couple well known academie's requirements lists. They are very similar.  

Edited: 8/10/18 3:52 PM
11/20/15
Posts: 4181
purplehaze -

is this on a website or posted somewhere?  I have the list of a couple well known academie's requirements lists. They are very similar.  

Well, I buy their stuff so I can look through it easy enough but even then it's detailed as hell with multiple techniques per lesson.

You could see it all by just going to their website and clicking through it lesson by lesson even if you haven't bought them but now that I think about it I'm asking a lot from guys who haven't bought and watched all that stuff but it is possible.

If you have links to other school's purple requirements that would be awesome, I can compare them then.

8/10/18 5:19 PM
3/15/15
Posts: 10432
Beer&Pickles - 

... than the last standing/takedown/weapons chapter, I want to talk about whether all those techs are really what a PB must know to be a purple.

I've had a couple black belts tell me that if you actually mastered all those techs you're a high level black belt, that they don't even know all that shit.

Not sure why it matters to me, probably because I'm not a purple belt and am in a bit of information overload/shock that someone would know all that stuff and only be a purple and because I don't have anything better to do today, thanks.


Personally, I think they give TOO much information. You can know all of the techniques, heck even demonstrate them well, but being able to pull them off takes years and years of developing sensitivity and timing to create efficiency, for each technique. Black belts tend to reply on a small amount of moves for each situation and are constantly refining and problem solving. Black belts should also have a good conceptual awareness in order to "create" techniques on demand without worrying about the minutiae of Step ABCD, and shortcutting techniques to achieve goals.


8/10/18 5:45 PM
11/20/15
Posts: 4198
HotSteppa -
Beer&Pickles - 

... than the last standing/takedown/weapons chapter, I want to talk about whether all those techs are really what a PB must know to be a purple.

I've had a couple black belts tell me that if you actually mastered all those techs you're a high level black belt, that they don't even know all that shit.

Not sure why it matters to me, probably because I'm not a purple belt and am in a bit of information overload/shock that someone would know all that stuff and only be a purple and because I don't have anything better to do today, thanks.


Personally, I think they give TOO much information. You can know all of the techniques, heck even demonstrate them well, but being able to pull them off takes years and years of developing sensitivity and timing to create efficiency, for each technique. Black belts tend to reply on a small amount of moves for each situation and are constantly refining and problem solving. Black belts should also have a good conceptual awareness in order to "create" techniques on demand without worrying about the minutiae of Step ABCD, and shortcutting techniques to achieve goals.


Not being a black belt I can't argue with you, but in my experience fwiw, their videos/strategy is to show the student WHEN a technique is being handed to you, not creating it, but maybe that's the same thing idk.

Appreciate the thoughts though and you're not alone in thinking that is way beyond purple belt level technique development.

Be interesting to see what they put out up to brown and black.

8/12/18 5:17 AM
3/17/10
Posts: 850

Since they now give out a white/blue belt instead of the solid blue belt for passing the combatives course they haven't put out any curriculum for obtaining a solid blue belt yet. 

8/12/18 5:55 AM
11/20/15
Posts: 4230
Ernest Estrada -

Since they now give out a white/blue belt instead of the solid blue belt for passing the combatives course they haven't put out any curriculum for obtaining a solid blue belt yet. 

You have to get the white/blue, then train at one of their CTC's for I think 6 months and then they just give it to you.

Would be nice if they had an actual blue curriculum, you know, like every other school... ever.

8/12/18 3:56 PM
11/11/11
Posts: 20917
Beer&Pickles -
Ernest Estrada -

Since they now give out a white/blue belt instead of the solid blue belt for passing the combatives course they haven't put out any curriculum for obtaining a solid blue belt yet. 

You have to get the white/blue, then train at one of their CTC's for I think 6 months and then they just give it to you.

Would be nice if they had an actual blue curriculum, you know, like every other school... ever.

To be fair I feel like most schools dont have any curriculum period.

8/12/18 10:40 PM
11/20/15
Posts: 4233
TheBearStare -
Beer&Pickles -
Ernest Estrada -

Since they now give out a white/blue belt instead of the solid blue belt for passing the combatives course they haven't put out any curriculum for obtaining a solid blue belt yet. 

You have to get the white/blue, then train at one of their CTC's for I think 6 months and then they just give it to you.

Would be nice if they had an actual blue curriculum, you know, like every other school... ever.

To be fair I feel like most schools dont have any curriculum period.

I thought Pedro Sauer had a blue curriculum for all his schools, GA obviously does, Gracie Barra does, Gracie Humaita too.

And every place that offers beginner classes has a curriculum to follow in those classes so I don't know what schools you mean.

8/13/18 10:53 AM
7/30/03
Posts: 6112

It’s not too much imo. They still have the best online instruction out of any that I’ve seen. They present the information in an organized step by step system and the techniques are solid with great detail. All of their escapes should be mandatory to learn. All of their control tactics should be mandatory to learn and all of their sub defenses should be mandatory to learn and those make up the bulk of their curriculum. The half guard stuff is good to learn even if you don’t play it all. The guard attack games are not too much. They have one or two games each from positions like mount, side, and back. Their clinch section on their standup has some good stuff with plenty of room to add for brown and black. I’ve not looked at their self defense stuff so I can’t comment on it but again. Imo it is the best online instruction out there and most all of it should be learned and they have plenty of room for brown and black still. There are plenty of black belts out there who take the easy route and want to claim that this is too much or unnecessary or whatever but they are the same ones who couldn’t roll with a real purple belt and they have multiple excuses for why.

8/13/18 5:12 PM
11/20/15
Posts: 4246
Calhoon -

It’s not too much imo. They still have the best online instruction out of any that I’ve seen. They present the information in an organized step by step system and the techniques are solid with great detail. All of their escapes should be mandatory to learn. All of their control tactics should be mandatory to learn and all of their sub defenses should be mandatory to learn and those make up the bulk of their curriculum. The half guard stuff is good to learn even if you don’t play it all. The guard attack games are not too much. They have one or two games each from positions like mount, side, and back. Their clinch section on their standup has some good stuff with plenty of room to add for brown and black. I’ve not looked at their self defense stuff so I can’t comment on it but again. Imo it is the best online instruction out there and most all of it should be learned and they have plenty of room for brown and black still. There are plenty of black belts out there who take the easy route and want to claim that this is too much or unnecessary or whatever but they are the same ones who couldn’t roll with a real purple belt and they have multiple excuses for why.

So then conversation becomes, if that is purple belt level technique, how many real purples, browns, or blacks are out there, really.

If that is purple level technique, how watered down has the art become?

8/13/18 5:53 PM
9/26/07
Posts: 639

I think that quantity of techniques and depth of detail is what is required to be really great and successful bjj coach however it is far in excess of what you would need to be a successful high level bjj competitor 

Edited: 8/13/18 6:41 PM
7/30/03
Posts: 6113
Denis Kelly -

I think that quantity of techniques and depth of detail is what is required to be really great and successful bjj coach however it is far in excess of what you would need to be a successful high level bjj competitor 

I don’t think it’s all that much. Is there a high level competitor that doesn’t know more than what is on their site already?

8/13/18 6:59 PM
9/26/07
Posts: 640

I think most successful competitiors know a lot about a small selection of techniques or positions. 

8/13/18 7:54 PM
3/14/06
Posts: 22438

Bruce Lee famously said "Ifear not the man who has practiced one kick ten thousand times but the man who has practiced ten thousand kicks just enoughto pass a test"

8/14/18 3:38 PM
7/30/03
Posts: 6114
Denis Kelly -

I think most successful competitiors know a lot about a small selection of techniques or positions. 

Back Mount, Mount, Side Control, Guard, Half Guard, Standing, Leg locks

 

Thats too much?

8/14/18 5:22 PM
9/26/07
Posts: 641

So far it's only up to purple belt. I think that if it was possible to do a hypothetical experiment where one bjj student was given 4 years to practice all of the GJJ grading requirements and another identical student to just learn and drill 10 to 15 high percentage competition techniques the second guy would be much better in competition after 4 years but the first guy would be much better as a coach. 

Edited: 8/14/18 5:41 PM
9/26/07
Posts: 642

 

8/14/18 5:54 PM
7/30/03
Posts: 6115
Denis Kelly -

So far it's only up to purple belt. I think that if it was possible to do a hypothetical experiment where one bjj student was given 4 years to practice all of the GJJ grading requirements and another identical student to just learn and drill 10 to 15 high percentage competition techniques the second guy would be much better in competition after 4 years but the first guy would be much better as a coach. 

That’s interesting. What would the 15 techniques be?

8/14/18 7:31 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 2388

Having watched all the blue to purplebelt requirements videos (some more than once) this thought has occured to me as well, "Thats a LOT of data."

 

Different schools will emphasize different things. Even someone in a Gracie Certified Training Center may not learn all of those techniques as the rank up. But if you follow the online syllabus there is no doubt that you will be well rounded which they have stated is one of their goals.

 

I have no doubt in the scenario above that after four years a GU student could "lose" in a sporting competition against someone that focused on leg locks for the same amout of time. Maybe. But the breadth of knowledge the GU would have is staggering to say the least. And his survival skills would be excellent. GU has helped me be a 1000 times more comfortable defending against guys half my age, etc.

 

To answer the other question - once the person has their white/blue belt and are working towards their blue belt they use the stripe 1 curriculum as it builds on what they already know. Of course if they are going to group class then who knows what they will be exposed to, just like every other jiu-jitsu club:)

 

 

 

 

 

8/14/18 7:34 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 2389

"... than the last standing/takedown/weapons chapter, I want to talk about whether all those techs are really what a PB must know to be a purple.

I've had a couple black belts tell me that if you actually mastered all those techs you're a high level black belt, that they don't even know all that shit.

Not sure why it matters to me, probably because I'm not a purple belt and am in a bit of information overload/shock that someone would know all that stuff and only be a purple and because I don't have anything better to do today, thanks."

 

Back in the day (20 years ago) I often heard and read in magazine articles that a purplebelt basically knew the same techniques that a black belt would know. Competency in application was the differentiator.

 

But as far as what defines a purplebelt I'm sure there are going to be a ton of opinions on that.

8/14/18 10:23 PM
1/9/18
Posts: 499

If someone only learns 10-15 techniques, they won't have the knowledge to change up technique based on what strategy or game the opponent uses.  They also won't react how they need.  IMO.

8/14/18 11:35 PM
9/26/07
Posts: 643

The 15 - 20 techniques would vary according to body type, mentality etc. what works for one person might not work for another. I've heard many people say that Carlson sr only ever taught a few techniques but Just emphasised hard drilling and sparring. 

Just to be clear I'm not saying that this is a better way of training. I actually like the idea of a large number of techniques being taught, learned and passed on to the next generation but just observing that learning all those techniques probably isn't necessary if you are mainly focused on being a successful competitor. 

8/15/18 12:53 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 19267
Denis Kelly -

The 15 - 20 techniques would vary according to body type, mentality etc. what works for one person might not work for another. I've heard many people say that Carlson sr only ever taught a few techniques but Just emphasised hard drilling and sparring. 

Just to be clear I'm not saying that this is a better way of training. I actually like the idea of a large number of techniques being taught, learned and passed on to the next generation but just observing that learning all those techniques probably isn't necessary if you are mainly focused on being a successful competitor. 

Agree.

 

I think this hypothetical player forces the rounded player into his or her game and dominates.

 

At featherweight,I could see these techniques doing it.

 

1. Guard pull

2. Open guard retention

3. DLR retention

4. DLR side sweep

5. Berimbolo/leg drag

6. Knee slide pass

7. Torrrando pass

8. Far side arm Bar

9. Side control retention

10. One side control choke

11. One back choke

12. Foot lock defense

13. Knee on belly transition

14. One guard for sitting players (lasso, spider, whatever) retention

15. One guard for sitting players sweep

 

It's not rounded at all and there no defense. But I think this player  (purple belt) beats rounded player (purple belt) in a tournament.

 

Edited: 8/15/18 3:59 PM
7/30/03
Posts: 6116
asdf -
Denis Kelly -

The 15 - 20 techniques would vary according to body type, mentality etc. what works for one person might not work for another. I've heard many people say that Carlson sr only ever taught a few techniques but Just emphasised hard drilling and sparring. 

Just to be clear I'm not saying that this is a better way of training. I actually like the idea of a large number of techniques being taught, learned and passed on to the next generation but just observing that learning all those techniques probably isn't necessary if you are mainly focused on being a successful competitor. 

Agree.

 

I think this hypothetical player forces the rounded player into his or her game and dominates.

 

At featherweight,I could see these techniques doing it.

 

1. Guard pull

2. Open guard retention

3. DLR retention

4. DLR side sweep

5. Berimbolo/leg drag

6. Knee slide pass

7. Torrrando pass

8. Far side arm Bar

9. Side control retention

10. One side control choke

11. One back choke

12. Foot lock defense

13. Knee on belly transition

14. One guard for sitting players (lasso, spider, whatever) retention

15. One guard for sitting players sweep

 

It's not rounded at all and there no defense. But I think this player  (purple belt) beats rounded player (purple belt) in a tournament.

 

That sounds good written out but the truth is you have gone well beyond 15 techniques. Open guard retention alone could require over 15 techniques if the guy wants to be a successful competitor.

Plus I don’t think this would be enough to be a great competitor anyways.