Edited: 22 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 1932
tapnaporsnapbro - he had an amazing run and was the best of his generation. but i'm still not sure if i'd consider him the GOAT because he retired too early IMO. the rumors that it was PED related don't help either.

for GOAT, i would go with someone like roger gracie. i like cobrinha too for still killing it while pushing 40. lucas lepri is getting there too for being so good for so many years.

everyone has a different definition of GOAT in BJJ. personally i'm impressed by longevity. i feel like a see a lot people come on to the scene and kill it for years only to fade away. the ones who are still able to dominate in their mid 30s impress me.

Cobrinha is the GOAT simply because he is at the top of the heap at the same time his kid is near the top of the heap. 

has that happened in any sport? 

23 days ago
3/9/13
Posts: 3824
fnunderful -
liquidrob - To this point, no one has or better BJJ then Rafa IMO

Never submitted, actually never has been in danger of being tapped, closet would be foot attacks by Cobrinha where he wouldn't tap anyway lol

Guard passed ONCE, and that was his first year as a black belt, in the finals of the worlds against Cobrinha, that is insane, just think about that

And here are so No Gi videos too watch, against Galvao and Jake Shields,just ridiculous level of BJJ on display

Rafa vs Galvao

https://youtu.be/to5GNwOF9xs

Rafa vs Jake Shields

https://youtu.be/HFDsgucTGzA

Rafa vs Rodolfo

https://youtu.be/X-14lVlU-Ks

he beats me 100 times out of 100 but add punches and slams to any of these matches and he gets murdered.

LOL. Must be trolling.

23 days ago
3/9/13
Posts: 3825

I agree with OP. Rafa is GOAT in my book.

22 days ago
5/8/11
Posts: 5365
Caladan -
fnunderful -
liquidrob - To this point, no one has or better BJJ then Rafa IMO

Never submitted, actually never has been in danger of being tapped, closet would be foot attacks by Cobrinha where he wouldn't tap anyway lol

Guard passed ONCE, and that was his first year as a black belt, in the finals of the worlds against Cobrinha, that is insane, just think about that

And here are so No Gi videos too watch, against Galvao and Jake Shields,just ridiculous level of BJJ on display

Rafa vs Galvao

https://youtu.be/to5GNwOF9xs

Rafa vs Jake Shields

https://youtu.be/HFDsgucTGzA

Rafa vs Rodolfo

https://youtu.be/X-14lVlU-Ks

he beats me 100 times out of 100 but add punches and slams to any of these matches and he gets murdered.

LOL. Must be trolling.

What makes it a troll? Because I don't think you can separate bjj from self defense?

22 days ago
4/26/13
Posts: 4434

It’s a tough call between Rafa and Roger for me.  Roger probably had more losses but his submission rate was just ridiculous.  Rafa probably had the best overall technique and subs at the lower weight class are so much harder to get.

 

Marcelo had a couple submission losses which take him a step down from those two for me

22 days ago
9/9/02
Posts: 13163
Easters - 

It’s a tough call between Rafa and Roger for me.  Roger probably had more losses but his submission rate was just ridiculous.  Rafa probably had the best overall technique and subs at the lower weight class are so much harder to get.

 

Marcelo had a couple submission losses which take him a step down from those two for me


Roger sub rate is crazy high, Marcelo for all the subs he has is only a couple % points higher then Rafa actually

Like I stated a couple times, the biggest factor for picking Rafa is his defensive abilities, never in trouble, ever, while still subbing people

This is just a guess, but I would assume subs are harder to come by at the lighter weights overall

Also, Rafa had one of the all timers in his division also for his whole career, having Cobrinha is your division is no joke lol

Roger had Xande, it helps when you have someone else that is great also to make your resume stronger

22 days ago
2/5/06
Posts: 3176

Rafa is in an average sized body and is arguably damn near impossible to beat. Lots of other guys are in giant bodies and use that to their advantage. Rafa could easily be argued for goat. Easy. 

22 days ago
9/9/02
Posts: 13164
I'm not sure Rafa has ever been subbed in any comp, probably from blue up, I think he won worlds blue and up

It's just a guess, I can totally be making it up, lol, but seems possible since we mowed through Brown before Black belt
21 days ago
11/2/12
Posts: 330
liquidrob - I'm not sure Rafa has ever been subbed in any comp, probably from blue up, I think he won worlds blue and up

It's just a guess, I can totally be making it up, lol, but seems possible since we mowed through Brown before Black belt

I think the same is with roger , no ? And we’ve also seen the best guys at multiple weights have Roger in trouble but never seal the deal . I’m also not sure if that works for or against in GOAT conversation lol Roger , Rafa , Marcelo that order for me followed by the biggest what if Jacare 

Edited: 21 days ago
2/9/09
Posts: 9548
Easters -

It’s a tough call between Rafa and Roger for me.  Roger probably had more losses but his submission rate was just ridiculous.  Rafa probably had the best overall technique and subs at the lower weight class are so much harder to get.

 

Marcelo had a couple submission losses which take him a step down from those two for me

Weren't almost all of MGs losses in higher weight classes?

 

MG or Roger are #1 for me. MG has a more impressive overall record than Rafa IMO

21 days ago
4/26/13
Posts: 4435
The Closed Guard -
Easters -

It’s a tough call between Rafa and Roger for me.  Roger probably had more losses but his submission rate was just ridiculous.  Rafa probably had the best overall technique and subs at the lower weight class are so much harder to get.

 

Marcelo had a couple submission losses which take him a step down from those two for me

Weren't almost all of MGs losses in higher weight classes?

 

MG or Roger are #1 for me. MG has a more impressive overall record than Rafa IMO

Marcelo does get big points for doing absolute

21 days ago
5/11/08
Posts: 2211
The Closed Guard -
Easters -

It’s a tough call between Rafa and Roger for me.  Roger probably had more losses but his submission rate was just ridiculous.  Rafa probably had the best overall technique and subs at the lower weight class are so much harder to get.

 

Marcelo had a couple submission losses which take him a step down from those two for me

Weren't almost all of MGs losses in higher weight classes?

 

MG or Roger are #1 for me. MG has a more impressive overall record than Rafa IMO

Cant think of anyone except Pablo who beat him at his weight class in ADCC. In gi at black belt can't really think of anyone either. Although he has been subbed by guys one weight class above him, like Jacare and Braulio. But again, I don't think he really cuts any weight. 

21 days ago
9/9/02
Posts: 13165
Terere subbed him at same weight I believe
21 days ago
9/9/02
Posts: 13166
He might be 0-2 against Terere
21 days ago
4/26/13
Posts: 4436
liquidrob - He might be 0-2 against Terere

Ya, I checked BJJ Heroes and Marcelo does have a lot of losses.  Any loss Rafa had was either by advantage or refs decision.  He didn’t do absolutes really but hard to hold that against a feather weight.  Overall his sub rate is really high as well, just wasn’t always able to sub the cobrinhas or tanquinhos

21 days ago
3/15/15
Posts: 12493
Easters - 
liquidrob - He might be 0-2 against Terere

Ya, I checked BJJ Heroes and Marcelo does have a lot of losses.  Any loss Rafa had was either by advantage or refs decision.  He didn’t do absolutes really but hard to hold that against a feather weight.  Overall his sub rate is really high as well, just wasn’t always able to sub the cobrinhas or tanquinhos


And maybe that's the problem. I used to be on their site and I found there were a lot of techniques aimed at small to mid guys competing in their divisions with little consideration for big opponents. That is why I liked Ribeiros stuff better.
21 days ago
9/9/02
Posts: 13167
HotSteppa - 
Easters - 
liquidrob - He might be 0-2 against Terere

Ya, I checked BJJ Heroes and Marcelo does have a lot of losses.  Any loss Rafa had was either by advantage or refs decision.  He didn’t do absolutes really but hard to hold that against a feather weight.  Overall his sub rate is really high as well, just wasn’t always able to sub the cobrinhas or tanquinhos


And maybe that's the problem. I used to be on their site and I found there were a lot of techniques aimed at small to mid guys competing in their divisions with little consideration for big opponents. That is why I liked Ribeiros stuff better.

Yeah, because subbing Cobrinha is an easy task lol, and he does have a sub win over Cobrinha

Mendes brothers have a problem with there techs, Rafas sub % is like 2 or 3 points lower then Marcelos

I think they are ok on techniques lol
21 days ago
2/19/18
Posts: 86
HotSteppa -
Easters - 
liquidrob - He might be 0-2 against Terere

Ya, I checked BJJ Heroes and Marcelo does have a lot of losses.  Any loss Rafa had was either by advantage or refs decision.  He didn’t do absolutes really but hard to hold that against a feather weight.  Overall his sub rate is really high as well, just wasn’t always able to sub the cobrinhas or tanquinhos


And maybe that's the problem. I used to be on their site and I found there were a lot of techniques aimed at small to mid guys competing in their divisions with little consideration for big opponents. That is why I liked Ribeiros stuff better.

I found them to have a small mans game, which is expected.  I liked Andre's/Atos site much better.

21 days ago
12/1/00
Posts: 17140
Easters - 
liquidrob - He might be 0-2 against Terere

Ya, I checked BJJ Heroes and Marcelo does have a lot of losses.  Any loss Rafa had was either by advantage or refs decision.  He didn’t do absolutes really but hard to hold that against a feather weight.  Overall his sub rate is really high as well, just wasn’t always able to sub the cobrinhas or tanquinhos


When Marcelo got his black belt, his only losses at his weight in the gi were to Terere (twice) and Michael Langhi once (stupid rule set at the Abu Dhabi Pro which I think he should have won).

With Rafa, when he got his black belt, his losses at weight in the gi were to Cobrinha (twice- or maybe three times), and Tanquinho twice.

In No Gi, at weight, Marcelo lost to Pablo Popovitch once (who admitted to cheating to beat him), and Rafa lost to Cobrinha once.

Rafa is a 6x IBJJF champ and 2x ADCC champ.

Marcelo is a 5x IBJJF champ and 4x ADCC champ.

Marcelo also won the Brasilerio absolute in 2006 - during an era when many would say this was a harder tournament than the worlds.
To win this, he beat Cyborg, Andre Galvao, and Damian Maia all in one tournament.

It's a close call, but I will always go with Marcelo :)




21 days ago
2/5/06
Posts: 3177

Roger is way too damn big to be in the conversation. 
 

 

20 days ago
2/15/14
Posts: 767
kying418 -
Easters - 
liquidrob - He might be 0-2 against Terere

Ya, I checked BJJ Heroes and Marcelo does have a lot of losses.  Any loss Rafa had was either by advantage or refs decision.  He didn’t do absolutes really but hard to hold that against a feather weight.  Overall his sub rate is really high as well, just wasn’t always able to sub the cobrinhas or tanquinhos


When Marcelo got his black belt, his only losses at his weight in the gi were to Terere (twice) and Michael Langhi once (stupid rule set at the Abu Dhabi Pro which I think he should have won).

With Rafa, when he got his black belt, his losses at weight in the gi were to Cobrinha (twice- or maybe three times), and Tanquinho twice.

In No Gi, at weight, Marcelo lost to Pablo Popovitch once (who admitted to cheating to beat him), and Rafa lost to Cobrinha once.

Rafa is a 6x IBJJF champ and 2x ADCC champ.

Marcelo is a 5x IBJJF champ and 4x ADCC champ.

Marcelo also won the Brasilerio absolute in 2006 - during an era when many would say this was a harder tournament than the worlds.
To win this, he beat Cyborg, Andre Galvao, and Damian Maia all in one tournament.

It's a close call, but I will always go with Marcelo :)




You don't think the Michael Langhi match was fake/planned with a pre-arranged winner?

I know both guys games very well from being huge fans and watching them for years and with the little nuances they both did and didn't do being drastically different than their normal games and matches with other opponents. WIth my observations, I'm hard pressed to believe that match was fought at 100% effort to win. Otherwise, I think Marcelo would stomp Michael Langhi easily

20 days ago
11/2/12
Posts: 331
tf1 -

Roger is way too damn big to be in the conversation. 
 

 

Too big to be in the conversation for p4p ? 

20 days ago
12/1/00
Posts: 17142
mideastgrappler - 
kying418 -
Easters - 
liquidrob - He might be 0-2 against Terere

Ya, I checked BJJ Heroes and Marcelo does have a lot of losses.  Any loss Rafa had was either by advantage or refs decision.  He didn’t do absolutes really but hard to hold that against a feather weight.  Overall his sub rate is really high as well, just wasn’t always able to sub the cobrinhas or tanquinhos


When Marcelo got his black belt, his only losses at his weight in the gi were to Terere (twice) and Michael Langhi once (stupid rule set at the Abu Dhabi Pro which I think he should have won).

With Rafa, when he got his black belt, his losses at weight in the gi were to Cobrinha (twice- or maybe three times), and Tanquinho twice.

In No Gi, at weight, Marcelo lost to Pablo Popovitch once (who admitted to cheating to beat him), and Rafa lost to Cobrinha once.

Rafa is a 6x IBJJF champ and 2x ADCC champ.

Marcelo is a 5x IBJJF champ and 4x ADCC champ.

Marcelo also won the Brasilerio absolute in 2006 - during an era when many would say this was a harder tournament than the worlds.
To win this, he beat Cyborg, Andre Galvao, and Damian Maia all in one tournament.

It's a close call, but I will always go with Marcelo :)




You don't think the Michael Langhi match was fake/planned with a pre-arranged winner?

I know both guys games very well from being huge fans and watching them for years and with the little nuances they both did and didn't do being drastically different than their normal games and matches with other opponents. WIth my observations, I'm hard pressed to believe that match was fought at 100% effort to win. Otherwise, I think Marcelo would stomp Michael Langhi easily


I just watched parts of the match again- honestly, I don't think Marcelo would ever do a planned match- he would just close out - like he did against Sergio Moraes.


In the match, it looks like he is trying his hardest to pass, but all Langhi is doing is holding on with his spider guard- not attempting sweeps or submissions...I imagine it is nearly impossible to pass Langhi's guard when he isn't opening up too much.

(Afterwards, you can also see that Marcelo isn't very happy with the result of the decision.)
Edited: 16 days ago
3/9/13
Posts: 3832
fnunderful -
Caladan -
fnunderful -
liquidrob - To this point, no one has or better BJJ then Rafa IMO

Never submitted, actually never has been in danger of being tapped, closet would be foot attacks by Cobrinha where he wouldn't tap anyway lol

Guard passed ONCE, and that was his first year as a black belt, in the finals of the worlds against Cobrinha, that is insane, just think about that

And here are so No Gi videos too watch, against Galvao and Jake Shields,just ridiculous level of BJJ on display

Rafa vs Galvao

https://youtu.be/to5GNwOF9xs

Rafa vs Jake Shields

https://youtu.be/HFDsgucTGzA

Rafa vs Rodolfo

https://youtu.be/X-14lVlU-Ks

he beats me 100 times out of 100 but add punches and slams to any of these matches and he gets murdered.

LOL. Must be trolling.

What makes it a troll? Because I don't think you can separate bjj from self defense?

You're a blue belt. If you went with the GOAT black belt and think anything would happen except him surfing on you like a surf board, you are naive or trolling. Have you ever felt what it feels like to train with a high level black belt?

16 days ago
5/8/11
Posts: 5384
Caladan -
fnunderful -
Caladan -
fnunderful -
liquidrob - To this point, no one has or better BJJ then Rafa IMO

Never submitted, actually never has been in danger of being tapped, closet would be foot attacks by Cobrinha where he wouldn't tap anyway lol

Guard passed ONCE, and that was his first year as a black belt, in the finals of the worlds against Cobrinha, that is insane, just think about that

And here are so No Gi videos too watch, against Galvao and Jake Shields,just ridiculous level of BJJ on display

Rafa vs Galvao

https://youtu.be/to5GNwOF9xs

Rafa vs Jake Shields

https://youtu.be/HFDsgucTGzA

Rafa vs Rodolfo

https://youtu.be/X-14lVlU-Ks

he beats me 100 times out of 100 but add punches and slams to any of these matches and he gets murdered.

LOL. Must be trolling.

What makes it a troll? Because I don't think you can separate bjj from self defense?

You're a blue belt. If you went with the GOAT black belt and think anything would happen except him surfing on you like a surf board, you are naive or trolling. Have you ever felt what it feels like to train with a high level black belt?

Did you read any of my posts? I already said I would get murdered in a match.  And yes, I have rolled with many high level black belts...I have been very spoiled in my jiu jitsu training.