23 days ago
9/9/02
Posts: 13157
To this point, no one has or better BJJ then Rafa IMO

Never submitted, actually never has been in danger of being tapped, closet would be foot attacks by Cobrinha where he wouldn't tap anyway lol

Guard passed ONCE, and that was his first year as a black belt, in the finals of the worlds against Cobrinha, that is insane, just think about that

And here are so No Gi videos too watch, against Galvao and Jake Shields,just ridiculous level of BJJ on display

Rafa vs Galvao

https://youtu.be/to5GNwOF9xs

Rafa vs Jake Shields

https://youtu.be/HFDsgucTGzA

Rafa vs Rodolfo

https://youtu.be/X-14lVlU-Ks
23 days ago
9/9/02
Posts: 13158
Rafa No Gi highlight

https://youtu.be/3eUXdXeG4p4
23 days ago
4/26/13
Posts: 4428

I agree.  For guys who do gi and no gi, nobody has looked more unbeatable.  

23 days ago
8/15/07
Posts: 18034
Negative. He was always way too concerned about parlaying his BJJ success into a business. He never competed in absolute and never pushed his own limits and opened himself up to the possibility of failure. His match with Clark Gracie is a good example of this.
23 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 3407
GOAT is Roger.
23 days ago
9/9/02
Posts: 13160
Soul Gravy - Negative. He was always way too concerned about parlaying his BJJ success into a business. He never competed in absolute and never pushed his own limits and opened himself up to the possibility of failure. His match with Clark Gracie is a good example of this.

You mean like the Absolute match I posted against Rodolfo? Lol

The Clark match where Rafa took his back and clark only defended?

Yeah, all those FW Absolute champs! Lol

23 days ago
5/8/11
Posts: 5357
liquidrob - To this point, no one has or better BJJ then Rafa IMO

Never submitted, actually never has been in danger of being tapped, closet would be foot attacks by Cobrinha where he wouldn't tap anyway lol

Guard passed ONCE, and that was his first year as a black belt, in the finals of the worlds against Cobrinha, that is insane, just think about that

And here are so No Gi videos too watch, against Galvao and Jake Shields,just ridiculous level of BJJ on display

Rafa vs Galvao

https://youtu.be/to5GNwOF9xs

Rafa vs Jake Shields

https://youtu.be/HFDsgucTGzA

Rafa vs Rodolfo

https://youtu.be/X-14lVlU-Ks

he beats me 100 times out of 100 but add punches and slams to any of these matches and he gets murdered.

23 days ago
2/15/14
Posts: 764

well yeah, Rodolfo will legit near kill him but I don't know about Clark

 

But the topic is on their BJJ skills, not their MMA skills

22 days ago
4/26/13
Posts: 4429
fnunderful -
liquidrob - To this point, no one has or better BJJ then Rafa IMO

Never submitted, actually never has been in danger of being tapped, closet would be foot attacks by Cobrinha where he wouldn't tap anyway lol

Guard passed ONCE, and that was his first year as a black belt, in the finals of the worlds against Cobrinha, that is insane, just think about that

And here are so No Gi videos too watch, against Galvao and Jake Shields,just ridiculous level of BJJ on display

Rafa vs Galvao

https://youtu.be/to5GNwOF9xs

Rafa vs Jake Shields

https://youtu.be/HFDsgucTGzA

Rafa vs Rodolfo

https://youtu.be/X-14lVlU-Ks

he beats me 100 times out of 100 but add punches and slams to any of these matches and he gets murdered.

Omg this shit has to stop.  Shut the fuck up

22 days ago
9/13/16
Posts: 1525
he had an amazing run and was the best of his generation. but i'm still not sure if i'd consider him the GOAT because he retired too early IMO. the rumors that it was PED related don't help either.

for GOAT, i would go with someone like roger gracie. i like cobrinha too for still killing it while pushing 40. lucas lepri is getting there too for being so good for so many years.

everyone has a different definition of GOAT in BJJ. personally i'm impressed by longevity. i feel like a see a lot people come on to the scene and kill it for years only to fade away. the ones who are still able to dominate in their mid 30s impress me.
22 days ago
5/8/11
Posts: 5360
Easters -
fnunderful -
liquidrob - To this point, no one has or better BJJ then Rafa IMO

Never submitted, actually never has been in danger of being tapped, closet would be foot attacks by Cobrinha where he wouldn't tap anyway lol

Guard passed ONCE, and that was his first year as a black belt, in the finals of the worlds against Cobrinha, that is insane, just think about that

And here are so No Gi videos too watch, against Galvao and Jake Shields,just ridiculous level of BJJ on display

Rafa vs Galvao

https://youtu.be/to5GNwOF9xs

Rafa vs Jake Shields

https://youtu.be/HFDsgucTGzA

Rafa vs Rodolfo

https://youtu.be/X-14lVlU-Ks

he beats me 100 times out of 100 but add punches and slams to any of these matches and he gets murdered.

Omg this shit has to stop.  Shut the fuck up

What is the problem, man?  You didn't see a single moment when Galvao had picked him up in the air and Rafa was unwilling to do the smart self defense thing and let go with his legs so not to be smashed on his head?  I'm sorry, but this is not good self defense and bad technique to teach if you are teaching self defense.  I am a little guy like rafa and I won't let anyone pick me up ever.  I don't care what the rules are, slams or no slams, it is a bad habit to get into.  No rules are going to save me if I am out and about and someone wants to pick a fight.  And, yes, it has happened to me more than once as an adult. Bullies love me (and i love them too right back)!

Edited: 22 days ago
5/8/11
Posts: 5361
mideastgrappler -

well yeah, Rodolfo will legit near kill him but I don't know about Clark

 

But the topic is on their BJJ skills, not their MMA skills

Yes, the topic is bjj, but is bjj just bjj or is it self defense? if bjj is self defense you can't get picked up like he does, that is a terrible self defense technique.   if bjj is not self defense then you may as well group it with kung fu and all the other used to be self defense stuff that is now just an aggressive dance but change the name from bjj to aggressive dancing with partners in pajamas.  

Edited: 22 days ago
2/9/09
Posts: 9521

I think MG and Roger are both more impressive. Id give Rafa the 3rd spot, I hate that he shyed away from absolutes a ton (I know he has a few under his belt). Also that Bolo game is super boring to watch...I know his style has changed but still. 

22 days ago
2/9/09
Posts: 9522
fnunderful -
mideastgrappler -

well yeah, Rodolfo will legit near kill him but I don't know about Clark

 

But the topic is on their BJJ skills, not their MMA skills

Yes, the topic is bjj, but is bjj just bjj or is it self defense? if bjj is self defense you can't get picked up like he does, that is a terrible self defense technique.   if bjj is not self defense then you may as well group it with kung fu and all the other used to be self defense stuff that is now just an aggressive dance but change the name from bjj to aggressive dancing with partners in pajamas.  

Not sure if you're trolling, but I agree. I cannont stand the "sport" style. Being good at sport and being able to defend yourself are two totally different things. 

22 days ago
5/8/11
Posts: 5362
The Closed Guard -
fnunderful -
mideastgrappler -

well yeah, Rodolfo will legit near kill him but I don't know about Clark

 

But the topic is on their BJJ skills, not their MMA skills

Yes, the topic is bjj, but is bjj just bjj or is it self defense? if bjj is self defense you can't get picked up like he does, that is a terrible self defense technique.   if bjj is not self defense then you may as well group it with kung fu and all the other used to be self defense stuff that is now just an aggressive dance but change the name from bjj to aggressive dancing with partners in pajamas.  

Not sure if you're trolling, but I agree. I cannont stand the "sport" style. Being good at sport and being able to defend yourself are two totally different things. 

Not trolling, just a little guy that doesn't want to waste my time on techniques that will get me killed.  I'm not even very good at this kind of sport jiu jitsu, but i'm good at managing distance, controling posture , hand control, head control and not getting picked up!  I can do well against this kind of sport game, but, i really only practice defense of these techniques.  

I don't think it is a good idea to separate bjj from self defense.  sport bjj needs another name...  I conceed that Rafa would break me in half.  we are roughly the same size and he is way better.  I doubt I would even get a punch off, but if i was 100lbs heavier and a foot taller...he would have a very hard time with me in a bar fight.  

22 days ago
3/15/15
Posts: 12480
In BJJ competition Rafa is *probably* GOAT. But it is a toss-up between Roger Gracie, Rafa, and perhaps MG and A. Riberio, L. Lepri, Bruno Malficine. But it is tough, what about Galvao and Cobrinha?

But also consider for the older generation of athletes two other guys:

1) Royler Gracie - undefeated in his weight class for over a decade, and entered absolutes

2) Saulo Ribeiro

3) Robson Moura


22 days ago
3/18/02
Posts: 89502

i think you can easily make the argument for or against Rafa as the goat.  Its tough when you look at guys like roger and marcelo

but I will say I have never seen anyone who has the vision and creativity in movement that Rafa has.  Blows my mind every time. 

22 days ago
9/9/02
Posts: 13161
Lol @ people bringing up MMA, anyway

Some good picks, obviously people have there preference

My arguement for Rafa is he has almost perfect BJJ, both in offense and defense

When you combine never being subbed with having his guard passed once (finals against Cobrinha his first year as a black belt) its just ridiculous the level of his game

Also, watch those rolling vids with Galvao and Shields, insane
22 days ago
5/8/11
Posts: 5363

I did not say mma, I said self defense which I think is relevant to the conversation.  

22 days ago
9/9/02
Posts: 13162
Sorry, I should have mentioned his Self defense resume, I'm sure he has some good bear Hug counters!
22 days ago
2/9/09
Posts: 9524

MG has a better Resume imo

22 days ago
5/8/11
Posts: 5364
liquidrob - Sorry, I should have mentioned his Self defense resume, I'm sure he has some good bear Hug counters!

He might, but his don't get picked up defense is rubbish

22 days ago
2/15/14
Posts: 765
fnunderful -
liquidrob - Sorry, I should have mentioned his Self defense resume, I'm sure he has some good bear Hug counters!

He might, but his don't get picked up defense is rubbish

considering he is training and competing under rules that don't allow slams, he is letting it happen. He has competed ADCC (you might have heard of it) he did get picked up in a triangle and slammed, and he did let go in time and also was able to mitagate the impact of the slam so your point is moot. 

 

Slam or no slam, he would mess up a lot of guys under grappling rules of any type. We are not talking about MMA nor self defense.

 

I think in an MMA fight, I could likely take Rafa out but due to his level of athleticism and skill, it's not a sure shot. I have an extensive wrestling and boxing background and still actively compete in black belt BJJ competition

 

In a self defense scenario, Rafa stands no chance against me. I would sucker punch him from the side with my biggest punch and he would never see it coming to employ any techniques against me 

In the same self defense scenario, I could probably take out Rodolfo Vieira too, I'd give him a baseball bat to the back of the head when he isn't looking and he wouldn't even touch me 

 

I'd be so fresh in fact, 5 minutes later if I ran into Francis Ngannou, I could probably take him out too. That guy has a mean chin, so I wouldn't strike him. I'd take out my handgun and shoot him from 60 ft away.

 

See what I did there? WIth all your own artifical rules and stipulations, you could defeat anyone in a self defense scenario

21 days ago
4/26/13
Posts: 4430
fnunderful -
Easters -
fnunderful -
liquidrob - To this point, no one has or better BJJ then Rafa IMO

Never submitted, actually never has been in danger of being tapped, closet would be foot attacks by Cobrinha where he wouldn't tap anyway lol

Guard passed ONCE, and that was his first year as a black belt, in the finals of the worlds against Cobrinha, that is insane, just think about that

And here are so No Gi videos too watch, against Galvao and Jake Shields,just ridiculous level of BJJ on display

Rafa vs Galvao

https://youtu.be/to5GNwOF9xs

Rafa vs Jake Shields

https://youtu.be/HFDsgucTGzA

Rafa vs Rodolfo

https://youtu.be/X-14lVlU-Ks

he beats me 100 times out of 100 but add punches and slams to any of these matches and he gets murdered.

Omg this shit has to stop.  Shut the fuck up

What is the problem, man?  You didn't see a single moment when Galvao had picked him up in the air and Rafa was unwilling to do the smart self defense thing and let go with his legs so not to be smashed on his head?  I'm sorry, but this is not good self defense and bad technique to teach if you are teaching self defense.  I am a little guy like rafa and I won't let anyone pick me up ever.  I don't care what the rules are, slams or no slams, it is a bad habit to get into.  No rules are going to save me if I am out and about and someone wants to pick a fight.  And, yes, it has happened to me more than once as an adult. Bullies love me (and i love them too right back)!

I wonder if some people go to boxing forums and say they could beat Floyd mayweather if takedowns were allowed 

21 days ago
9/10/13
Posts: 1665

I genuinely don’t understand that level of guard retention. It’s magic to me.