David Jacobs' BJJGround Strokes in Jiu Jitsu

10/27/19 10:10 PM
9/23/07
Posts: 519

 

 

I had a stroke in jiu jitsu in January.  It's nice to hear I'm not the only one.  Chris Martin and I talked about this this last week to the AZ BJJ coaches foundation.  It was very receptive.  Check out Chris Martin's other videos.  We all love jiu jitsu and just want people to be able to get help when needed instead of everyone being stubborn meatheads. 

10/27/19 10:45 PM
9/23/07
Posts: 520

The one and only David Jacobs also died from a stroke.

10/27/19 11:38 PM
2/28/03
Posts: 47756

It gets complicated by the use of steroids 

10/28/19 12:11 AM
10/19/19
Posts: 70

I’ve heard this is more common than you think due to chokes

10/28/19 12:26 AM
8/28/10
Posts: 12713
AskrensFro -

I’ve heard this is more common than you think due to chokes

I'm notorious for fighting in chokes and have a rep of "being hard to choke out." I bait my open neck so I can pass or set things up. I always joke that I can hold out in strangles because my head is so big and my brain so small, I have the Homer Simpson peanut brain.

Over the past two years or so my wife and those around me notice some cognitive changes that are not for the better. I'm becoming more forgetful, and my brain just pauses for moments at a time and I forget what I was doing. 

We were curious if this was partly due to bjj. I stopped striking a couple years back as my reflexes have dulled considerably. 

I'm curious if I have suffered something like this in the past 

10/28/19 12:41 AM
9/23/07
Posts: 521

I think everyone assumes more caused by steroids then anything else.  I've worked in emergency medicine for 10 yrs. Right now Chris and I have been researching it.  Most are caused by dissections (artery tears in the neck)  being sick the month before, over 30 yrs old has something to do with it but rarely involves illicit drug use.

10/28/19 2:05 AM
7/31/09
Posts: 5684

This one kid I train with at open mats had a stroke earlier this year.  Maybe he's older than I think but he doesn't look older than 20.  I was blown away when he told me that happened.  He back to full training and competing.

10/28/19 2:08 AM
9/23/07
Posts: 522

Where do you train at Robbie?  Can you possibly get him in touch with us?  We are trying to make the sport more safer or at least recognize strokes.  We are trying to get as much data as possible.

10/28/19 7:39 AM
12/18/03
Posts: 25362
jv071481 - 

I think everyone assumes more caused by steroids then anything else.  I've worked in emergency medicine for 10 yrs. Right now Chris and I have been researching it.  Most are caused by dissections (artery tears in the neck)  being sick the month before, over 30 yrs old has something to do with it but rarely involves illicit drug use.


I've also read about the artery dissections being the main cause, but steroid use increases your RBC count, and that may have a compund effect (hope that that's the correct expression).

To know for sure one would have to do blood tests for RBC counts AND steroid usage on all victims, at least until there is a significant sample.

10/28/19 9:51 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 18695

A friend of mine had a stroke after class, but at the time he was like 350 lbs with a crazy lifestyle.  Not sure if we trained chokes in that class as I wasn't there that day.  

Any research done on what it takes to cause artery dissections?  

10/28/19 10:03 AM
2/2/08
Posts: 12485
robbie380 - 

This one kid I train with at open mats had a stroke earlier this year.  Maybe he's older than I think but he doesn't look older than 20.  I was blown away when he told me that happened.  He back to full training and competing.


Any slurred speech? Droopy face?
10/28/19 10:37 AM
9/23/07
Posts: 523

We are noticing most of the strokes in jiu jitsu are coming from vertebral dissections in non steroid users.  CBC is usually checked.  Doubt most are compounding affect.  Dissections are a tear within the artery that creates a defect in the artery wall that doesnt have a choice but to create a clot because it causes the blood flow under to stop moving but will dislodge and cause a stroke.

10/28/19 10:38 AM
12/18/03
Posts: 25363

Question:

If I suspect someone is having a stroke during class, is there anything I can do to help other than calling an ambulance? 

10/28/19 10:52 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 18698

"We are noticing most of the strokes in jiu jitsu are coming from vertebral dissections in non steroid users."

What is a vertebral dissection?

10/28/19 11:19 AM
2/28/03
Posts: 47757

Sample size?

10/28/19 1:08 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 18699

Man, this sent me down a rabbit hole.  Here'a an interesting blog post by someone who had a stroke (bjj related).

https://medium.com/@bizjitsu/er-docs-need-to-know-about-stroke-prevention-in-jiu-jitsu-athletes-4ec2fc6497ae

10/28/19 2:44 PM
9/23/07
Posts: 524

The vertebral artery runs through the vertebrae so when there is a shift out of place between vertebrae it can tear the artery.

10/28/19 2:48 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 18701
jv071481 - 

The vertebral artery runs through the vertebrae so when there is a shift out of place between vertebrae it can tear the artery.


So am I wrong to think this is more from stacking like positions and guillotines vs rnc and x-collar chokes which attack the carotid?

10/28/19 3:12 PM
9/23/07
Posts: 525

Deepu, not wrong but we only have 1 stack pass on a female with a much bigger opponent.  X/cross chokes we have the most.  Loop chokes, bow and arrow are big, guillotines.

10/28/19 3:15 PM
9/23/07
Posts: 526

Deepu and Robbie380- if you can PM me on facebook with the names of your buddies, contact info or even have them PM me that would help in our research.  We are noticing 40% have been missed in the ER the 1st time.  

 

Facebook-Joshua Vera

Instagram-marinejiujitsu

Group- strokes carotid and vertebral artery dissections jiu jitsu survivors

10/28/19 3:16 PM
9/23/07
Posts: 527

We are at 65 people with chokes in jiu jitsu so far.  Its nuts.

10/28/19 4:16 PM
5/8/11
Posts: 5315
Sometimes my wife lets me porrada -
AskrensFro -

I’ve heard this is more common than you think due to chokes

I'm notorious for fighting in chokes and have a rep of "being hard to choke out." I bait my open neck so I can pass or set things up. I always joke that I can hold out in strangles because my head is so big and my brain so small, I have the Homer Simpson peanut brain.

Over the past two years or so my wife and those around me notice some cognitive changes that are not for the better. I'm becoming more forgetful, and my brain just pauses for moments at a time and I forget what I was doing. 

We were curious if this was partly due to bjj. I stopped striking a couple years back as my reflexes have dulled considerably. 

I'm curious if I have suffered something like this in the past 

Old age and weed?

10/28/19 5:38 PM
8/28/10
Posts: 12716
fnunderful -
Sometimes my wife lets me porrada -
AskrensFro -

I’ve heard this is more common than you think due to chokes

I'm notorious for fighting in chokes and have a rep of "being hard to choke out." I bait my open neck so I can pass or set things up. I always joke that I can hold out in strangles because my head is so big and my brain so small, I have the Homer Simpson peanut brain.

Over the past two years or so my wife and those around me notice some cognitive changes that are not for the better. I'm becoming more forgetful, and my brain just pauses for moments at a time and I forget what I was doing. 

We were curious if this was partly due to bjj. I stopped striking a couple years back as my reflexes have dulled considerably. 

I'm curious if I have suffered something like this in the past 

Old age and weed?

Only late 30s and no weed, booze, or drugs for the last 5 years and the symptoms continually get worse. I am type 1 diabetic so that may be a part of it too but my wife's colleague is a neurosurgeon and told me getting choked out daily is not good for the brain at all.

10/28/19 5:57 PM
9/23/07
Posts: 528

MarsMan-  unfortunately we can't do anything to stop the stroke besides TPA (pretty much liquifies clots and prevent brain tissue damage; it can reverse some neurological deficits)  it has to be given in 4 hrs from onset of stroke though. 

10/28/19 6:03 PM
5/8/11
Posts: 5316
Sometimes my wife lets me porrada -
fnunderful -
Sometimes my wife lets me porrada -
AskrensFro -

I’ve heard this is more common than you think due to chokes

I'm notorious for fighting in chokes and have a rep of "being hard to choke out." I bait my open neck so I can pass or set things up. I always joke that I can hold out in strangles because my head is so big and my brain so small, I have the Homer Simpson peanut brain.

Over the past two years or so my wife and those around me notice some cognitive changes that are not for the better. I'm becoming more forgetful, and my brain just pauses for moments at a time and I forget what I was doing. 

We were curious if this was partly due to bjj. I stopped striking a couple years back as my reflexes have dulled considerably. 

I'm curious if I have suffered something like this in the past 

Old age and weed?

Only late 30s and no weed, booze, or drugs for the last 5 years and the symptoms continually get worse. I am type 1 diabetic so that may be a part of it too but my wife's colleague is a neurosurgeon and told me getting choked out daily is not good for the brain at all.

I would be interested in seeing a thread on why you quit...

I need to get checked...I am starting to channel my Brad S when it comes to eating chokes...did I just pass out?  Did blood just squirt out of my forehead...so what?