David Jacobs' BJJGround Strokes in Jiu Jitsu

10/28/19 6:17 PM
9/23/07
Posts: 529

Risk factor- age 30+, sick within last month prior.  Other issues such a ehler danlos and other physical rare anomalies in young healthy people.

10/28/19 7:23 PM
12/18/03
Posts: 25366
jv071481 -

MarsMan-  unfortunately we can't do anything to stop the stroke besides TPA (pretty much liquifies clots and prevent brain tissue damage; it can reverse some neurological deficits)  it has to be given in 4 hrs from onset of stroke though. 

Thanks for the reply man. 

Knowing there's nothing to do immediately is a little bit of a relief (from the responsability), but a little unsettling as well. 

10/28/19 7:53 PM
10/8/08
Posts: 2126
Sometimes my wife lets me porrada - 
AskrensFro -

I’ve heard this is more common than you think due to chokes

I'm notorious for fighting in chokes and have a rep of "being hard to choke out." I bait my open neck so I can pass or set things up. I always joke that I can hold out in strangles because my head is so big and my brain so small, I have the Homer Simpson peanut brain.

Over the past two years or so my wife and those around me notice some cognitive changes that are not for the better. I'm becoming more forgetful, and my brain just pauses for moments at a time and I forget what I was doing. 

We were curious if this was partly due to bjj. I stopped striking a couple years back as my reflexes have dulled considerably. 

I'm curious if I have suffered something like this in the past 


you know i troll on here alot but all jokes aside i been training bjj,muaythai and mma since 2000. i've been off the mats for close to 2yrs now, just been plague with injuries, bad knee, shoulders, fucked up fingers from all that jacket wrestling but i've notice i been very forgetful, i'll walk into the bathroom to brush my teeth and once i get there i'll ask myself what was i suppose to do there. i have to make notes sometimes.
10/28/19 8:11 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 13730
Sometimes my wife lets me porrada -
fnunderful -
Sometimes my wife lets me porrada -
AskrensFro -

I’ve heard this is more common than you think due to chokes

I'm notorious for fighting in chokes and have a rep of "being hard to choke out." I bait my open neck so I can pass or set things up. I always joke that I can hold out in strangles because my head is so big and my brain so small, I have the Homer Simpson peanut brain.

Over the past two years or so my wife and those around me notice some cognitive changes that are not for the better. I'm becoming more forgetful, and my brain just pauses for moments at a time and I forget what I was doing. 

We were curious if this was partly due to bjj. I stopped striking a couple years back as my reflexes have dulled considerably. 

I'm curious if I have suffered something like this in the past 

Old age and weed?

Only late 30s and no weed, booze, or drugs for the last 5 years and the symptoms continually get worse. I am type 1 diabetic so that may be a part of it too but my wife's colleague is a neurosurgeon and told me getting choked out daily is not good for the brain at all.

Bro, 

I dunno what is true, so many differing opinions.....but try keto maybe? My doc recommended it, my bro5her in law's doc does to. Others swear the opposite....who the fuck we gonna believe. I been watching vids featurin g a cardiologist pushing it and he was a vegan at one time.

 

Supposedly better for brain because of the a imal fats. Of course it also benefits insulin resistance, glucose and diabeties. Ive been bugging wife because she eats so much carbs, shit carbs especially, and we been dealing sith her mom who has alzheimers for last 10yrs. Anyway, one thing pushed about keto is it helps brain function, so maybe something to look into.

 

Take care

10/28/19 8:20 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 13731
fnunderful -
Sometimes my wife lets me porrada -
fnunderful -
Sometimes my wife lets me porrada -
AskrensFro -

I’ve heard this is more common than you think due to chokes

I'm notorious for fighting in chokes and have a rep of "being hard to choke out." I bait my open neck so I can pass or set things up. I always joke that I can hold out in strangles because my head is so big and my brain so small, I have the Homer Simpson peanut brain.

Over the past two years or so my wife and those around me notice some cognitive changes that are not for the better. I'm becoming more forgetful, and my brain just pauses for moments at a time and I forget what I was doing. 

We were curious if this was partly due to bjj. I stopped striking a couple years back as my reflexes have dulled considerably. 

I'm curious if I have suffered something like this in the past 

Old age and weed?

Only late 30s and no weed, booze, or drugs for the last 5 years and the symptoms continually get worse. I am type 1 diabetic so that may be a part of it too but my wife's colleague is a neurosurgeon and told me getting choked out daily is not good for the brain at all.

I would be interested in seeing a thread on why you quit...

I need to get checked...I am starting to channel my Brad S when it comes to eating chokes...did I just pass out?  Did blood just squirt out of my forehead...so what?

This thread has me rethinking some aspects of my training :(

 

I push my partners to smash me...especially attacking the neck. Lots of pressure and cutting/rotational force with forearm. And lots fighting off the chokes xtil you cant fukkin see.

 

OP, 

Would you say lapel contributes more due to greater force applied and smaller surface area focucing the force.than say a forearm?

 

 

10/28/19 10:46 PM
9/23/07
Posts: 530
MarsMan -
jv071481 -

MarsMan-  unfortunately we can't do anything to stop the stroke besides TPA (pretty much liquifies clots and prevent brain tissue damage; it can reverse some neurological deficits)  it has to be given in 4 hrs from onset of stroke though. 

Thanks for the reply man. 

Knowing there's nothing to do immediately is a little bit of a relief (from the responsability), but a little unsettling as well. 

Yep, only thing is call an ambulance as soon as possible.

10/28/19 10:49 PM
9/23/07
Posts: 531
Sgt. Slaphead -
fnunderful -
Sometimes my wife lets me porrada -
fnunderful -
Sometimes my wife lets me porrada -
AskrensFro -

I’ve heard this is more common than you think due to chokes

I'm notorious for fighting in chokes and have a rep of "being hard to choke out." I bait my open neck so I can pass or set things up. I always joke that I can hold out in strangles because my head is so big and my brain so small, I have the Homer Simpson peanut brain.

Over the past two years or so my wife and those around me notice some cognitive changes that are not for the better. I'm becoming more forgetful, and my brain just pauses for moments at a time and I forget what I was doing. 

We were curious if this was partly due to bjj. I stopped striking a couple years back as my reflexes have dulled considerably. 

I'm curious if I have suffered something like this in the past 

Old age and weed?

Only late 30s and no weed, booze, or drugs for the last 5 years and the symptoms continually get worse. I am type 1 diabetic so that may be a part of it too but my wife's colleague is a neurosurgeon and told me getting choked out daily is not good for the brain at all.

I would be interested in seeing a thread on why you quit...

I need to get checked...I am starting to channel my Brad S when it comes to eating chokes...did I just pass out?  Did blood just squirt out of my forehead...so what?

This thread has me rethinking some aspects of my training :(

 

I push my partners to smash me...especially attacking the neck. Lots of pressure and cutting/rotational force with forearm. And lots fighting off the chokes xtil you cant fukkin see.

 

OP, 

Would you say lapel contributes more due to greater force applied and smaller surface area focucing the force.than say a forearm?

 

 

Sounds like how I used to train.  Definitely different now.  Tournaments I assume most will still vigorously try to get out but practice is practice.  Jist being comfortable in a position doesnt take away risks.

10/29/19 12:05 AM
4/27/18
Posts: 1940

Tap early.

also steroids can increase clotting risk outside of abnormal CBC (hemoglobin) which can increase risk of stroke. Without a doubt

10/29/19 12:13 AM
9/10/13
Posts: 1618

I get bad headaches almost all the time after training. I have to see a dr about it but this is one of the things I worry about. I also let myself get deep into chokes and fight out (or tap). It’s like my hobby inside of my bjj hobby. Never went out though. If I can’t train hard smashing bjj I don’t even want to do it. 

10/29/19 12:14 AM
9/23/07
Posts: 532

Steroids can also will increase blood pressure which can also cause hemorrhagic strokes.  Testosterone as well as epo can cause polycythemia will increase hemoglobin and hematocrit this increasing clotting but again though, the vast majority we are seeing are from tears in the carotid and vertebral arteries.  

10/30/19 3:59 PM
10/3/04
Posts: 4022

For the vast majority of people isn't it safer and better to tap out once you're put in a tight submission hold and you feel the pressure? I get it's different for competitors and at times during training you want to push yourself or your opponent, fight out of a submission, etc. but most of the time it's kinda silly, just tap and reset, you were 99% of the way to getting submitted, why risk your health?

10/30/19 4:13 PM
8/28/10
Posts: 12730
The Gimp -

For the vast majority of people isn't it safer and better to tap out once you're put in a tight submission hold and you feel the pressure? I get it's different for competitors and at times during training you want to push yourself or your opponent, fight out of a submission, etc. but most of the time it's kinda silly, just tap and reset, you were 99% of the way to getting submitted, why risk your health?

For me my consciousness outlasts many guys grips, and I'm great at playing possum. There's something about letting someone try to choke you and not be able to that mentally defeats them and sets the tone for the rest of the match. 

 

10/30/19 4:14 PM
8/28/10
Posts: 12731
RocknRolla -
Sometimes my wife lets me porrada - 
AskrensFro -

I’ve heard this is more common than you think due to chokes

I'm notorious for fighting in chokes and have a rep of "being hard to choke out." I bait my open neck so I can pass or set things up. I always joke that I can hold out in strangles because my head is so big and my brain so small, I have the Homer Simpson peanut brain.

Over the past two years or so my wife and those around me notice some cognitive changes that are not for the better. I'm becoming more forgetful, and my brain just pauses for moments at a time and I forget what I was doing. 

We were curious if this was partly due to bjj. I stopped striking a couple years back as my reflexes have dulled considerably. 

I'm curious if I have suffered something like this in the past 


you know i troll on here alot but all jokes aside i been training bjj,muaythai and mma since 2000. i've been off the mats for close to 2yrs now, just been plague with injuries, bad knee, shoulders, fucked up fingers from all that jacket wrestling but i've notice i been very forgetful, i'll walk into the bathroom to brush my teeth and once i get there i'll ask myself what was i suppose to do there. i have to make notes sometimes.

I'm actually getting a MRI done in a few weeks on my brain. I'm gonna ask the rad about it (I work doing x Ray and MRI) 

10/30/19 4:18 PM
8/28/10
Posts: 12732
Sgt. Slaphead -
Sometimes my wife lets me porrada -
fnunderful -
Sometimes my wife lets me porrada -
AskrensFro -

I’ve heard this is more common than you think due to chokes

I'm notorious for fighting in chokes and have a rep of "being hard to choke out." I bait my open neck so I can pass or set things up. I always joke that I can hold out in strangles because my head is so big and my brain so small, I have the Homer Simpson peanut brain.

Over the past two years or so my wife and those around me notice some cognitive changes that are not for the better. I'm becoming more forgetful, and my brain just pauses for moments at a time and I forget what I was doing. 

We were curious if this was partly due to bjj. I stopped striking a couple years back as my reflexes have dulled considerably. 

I'm curious if I have suffered something like this in the past 

Old age and weed?

Only late 30s and no weed, booze, or drugs for the last 5 years and the symptoms continually get worse. I am type 1 diabetic so that may be a part of it too but my wife's colleague is a neurosurgeon and told me getting choked out daily is not good for the brain at all.

Bro, 

I dunno what is true, so many differing opinions.....but try keto maybe? My doc recommended it, my bro5her in law's doc does to. Others swear the opposite....who the fuck we gonna believe. I been watching vids featurin g a cardiologist pushing it and he was a vegan at one time.

 

Supposedly better for brain because of the a imal fats. Of course it also benefits insulin resistance, glucose and diabeties. Ive been bugging wife because she eats so much carbs, shit carbs especially, and we been dealing sith her mom who has alzheimers for last 10yrs. Anyway, one thing pushed about keto is it helps brain function, so maybe something to look into.

 

Take care

I do a diet that's extremely close to keto because I'm type 1 diabetic and it helps keep my glucose levels in check. It's not a perfect keto due to me needing carbs especially after a grueling training session or workout. 

Thank you though I appreciate you Sarge, for real. Next time I'm back in the island I'm gonna make a trip to train with you and of course if you end up in LA hit me up for some food or training. Also got some fire arms safety shit I'd like to pick your brains on

10/30/19 5:33 PM
2/8/11
Posts: 709
The Gimp -

For the vast majority of people isn't it safer and better to tap out once you're put in a tight submission hold and you feel the pressure? I get it's different for competitors and at times during training you want to push yourself or your opponent, fight out of a submission, etc. but most of the time it's kinda silly, just tap and reset, you were 99% of the way to getting submitted, why risk your health?

I've always been paranoid about tapping from a choke before going out completely.

When I've caught people with chokes and they've gone unconcious, it's not apparant that they're 'out'. They don't shut their eyes and go limp right away. Often times their eyes are still open.

Luckily I've had the wherewithall to check to see if they're still there instead of just squeezing.

I'm not putting my health in the hands of someone who may or may not have the state of mind to adequately protect me.

10/30/19 5:45 PM
9/23/07
Posts: 533
Sometimes my wife lets me porrada -
RocknRolla -
Sometimes my wife lets me porrada - 
AskrensFro -

I’ve heard this is more common than you think due to chokes

I'm notorious for fighting in chokes and have a rep of "being hard to choke out." I bait my open neck so I can pass or set things up. I always joke that I can hold out in strangles because my head is so big and my brain so small, I have the Homer Simpson peanut brain.

Over the past two years or so my wife and those around me notice some cognitive changes that are not for the better. I'm becoming more forgetful, and my brain just pauses for moments at a time and I forget what I was doing. 

We were curious if this was partly due to bjj. I stopped striking a couple years back as my reflexes have dulled considerably. 

I'm curious if I have suffered something like this in the past 


you know i troll on here alot but all jokes aside i been training bjj,muaythai and mma since 2000. i've been off the mats for close to 2yrs now, just been plague with injuries, bad knee, shoulders, fucked up fingers from all that jacket wrestling but i've notice i been very forgetful, i'll walk into the bathroom to brush my teeth and once i get there i'll ask myself what was i suppose to do there. i have to make notes sometimes.

I'm actually getting a MRI done in a few weeks on my brain. I'm gonna ask the rad about it (I work doing x Ray and MRI) 

Let us know how it turns out.  I've always played that game too of possum as well.  I didnt even feel like the choke was a threat when my artery tore in my neck but my buddy has a strong x choke grip from the bottom.  But its better to just tap when choke is in.  

10/30/19 5:48 PM
9/23/07
Posts: 534
The Gimp -

For the vast majority of people isn't it safer and better to tap out once you're put in a tight submission hold and you feel the pressure? I get it's different for competitors and at times during training you want to push yourself or your opponent, fight out of a submission, etc. but most of the time it's kinda silly, just tap and reset, you were 99% of the way to getting submitted, why risk your health?

Yeah, i would tap to pressure now.  Face smash or whatever.  The torquing of the neck is risky even if it's somewhat risky.  

10/30/19 5:48 PM
11/10/05
Posts: 7470
jv071481 - 

I think everyone assumes more caused by steroids then anything else.  I've worked in emergency medicine for 10 yrs. Right now Chris and I have been researching it.  Most are caused by dissections (artery tears in the neck)  being sick the month before, over 30 yrs old has something to do with it but rarely involves illicit drug use.


I haven't had a chance to listen to this vid yet, but I know a woman who this happened to and I was told that women are more susceptible to the artery tear in the neck
10/31/19 2:13 AM
9/23/07
Posts: 535
Meatgrinder -
jv071481 - 

I think everyone assumes more caused by steroids then anything else.  I've worked in emergency medicine for 10 yrs. Right now Chris and I have been researching it.  Most are caused by dissections (artery tears in the neck)  being sick the month before, over 30 yrs old has something to do with it but rarely involves illicit drug use.


I haven't had a chance to listen to this vid yet, but I know a woman who this happened to and I was told that women are more susceptible to the artery tear in the neck

I think there might be truth to that.  Out of almost 70 now, 4 of them are female which seems like a high percentage for how many do jiu jitsu in comparison to guys.

10/31/19 10:05 AM
9/23/07
Posts: 536
Meatgrinder -
jv071481 - 

I think everyone assumes more caused by steroids then anything else.  I've worked in emergency medicine for 10 yrs. Right now Chris and I have been researching it.  Most are caused by dissections (artery tears in the neck)  being sick the month before, over 30 yrs old has something to do with it but rarely involves illicit drug use.


I haven't had a chance to listen to this vid yet, but I know a woman who this happened to and I was told that women are more susceptible to the artery tear in the neck

If you have her info that would be cool for our research.   We might already know about her.  Butif you can even pass on our group on facebook.  "Stroke, carotid and vertebral artery dissection jiu jitsu survivors"

10/31/19 11:48 AM
11/10/05
Posts: 7471
jv071481 - 
Meatgrinder -
jv071481 - 

I think everyone assumes more caused by steroids then anything else.  I've worked in emergency medicine for 10 yrs. Right now Chris and I have been researching it.  Most are caused by dissections (artery tears in the neck)  being sick the month before, over 30 yrs old has something to do with it but rarely involves illicit drug use.


I haven't had a chance to listen to this vid yet, but I know a woman who this happened to and I was told that women are more susceptible to the artery tear in the neck

If you have her info that would be cool for our research.   We might already know about her.  Butif you can even pass on our group on facebook.  "Stroke, carotid and vertebral artery dissection jiu jitsu survivors"


I will def let her know.
10/31/19 1:13 PM
8/28/10
Posts: 12737
jv071481 -
Sometimes my wife lets me porrada -
RocknRolla -
Sometimes my wife lets me porrada - 
AskrensFro -

I’ve heard this is more common than you think due to chokes

I'm notorious for fighting in chokes and have a rep of "being hard to choke out." I bait my open neck so I can pass or set things up. I always joke that I can hold out in strangles because my head is so big and my brain so small, I have the Homer Simpson peanut brain.

Over the past two years or so my wife and those around me notice some cognitive changes that are not for the better. I'm becoming more forgetful, and my brain just pauses for moments at a time and I forget what I was doing. 

We were curious if this was partly due to bjj. I stopped striking a couple years back as my reflexes have dulled considerably. 

I'm curious if I have suffered something like this in the past 


you know i troll on here alot but all jokes aside i been training bjj,muaythai and mma since 2000. i've been off the mats for close to 2yrs now, just been plague with injuries, bad knee, shoulders, fucked up fingers from all that jacket wrestling but i've notice i been very forgetful, i'll walk into the bathroom to brush my teeth and once i get there i'll ask myself what was i suppose to do there. i have to make notes sometimes.

I'm actually getting a MRI done in a few weeks on my brain. I'm gonna ask the rad about it (I work doing x Ray and MRI) 

Let us know how it turns out.  I've always played that game too of possum as well.  I didnt even feel like the choke was a threat when my artery tore in my neck but my buddy has a strong x choke grip from the bottom.  But its better to just tap when choke is in.  

I was rolling with a bb who is known for choking the life out of people and I honestly, for the first time, started to panic while fighting out of a choke. Thoughts of me having a stroke filled my mind and I felt broken. Damn you jv071481 lol 

10/31/19 4:51 PM
9/23/07
Posts: 537
Sometimes my wife lets me porrada -
jv071481 -
Sometimes my wife lets me porrada -
RocknRolla -
Sometimes my wife lets me porrada - 
AskrensFro -

I’ve heard this is more common than you think due to chokes

I'm notorious for fighting in chokes and have a rep of "being hard to choke out." I bait my open neck so I can pass or set things up. I always joke that I can hold out in strangles because my head is so big and my brain so small, I have the Homer Simpson peanut brain.

Over the past two years or so my wife and those around me notice some cognitive changes that are not for the better. I'm becoming more forgetful, and my brain just pauses for moments at a time and I forget what I was doing. 

We were curious if this was partly due to bjj. I stopped striking a couple years back as my reflexes have dulled considerably. 

I'm curious if I have suffered something like this in the past 


you know i troll on here alot but all jokes aside i been training bjj,muaythai and mma since 2000. i've been off the mats for close to 2yrs now, just been plague with injuries, bad knee, shoulders, fucked up fingers from all that jacket wrestling but i've notice i been very forgetful, i'll walk into the bathroom to brush my teeth and once i get there i'll ask myself what was i suppose to do there. i have to make notes sometimes.

I'm actually getting a MRI done in a few weeks on my brain. I'm gonna ask the rad about it (I work doing x Ray and MRI) 

Let us know how it turns out.  I've always played that game too of possum as well.  I didnt even feel like the choke was a threat when my artery tore in my neck but my buddy has a strong x choke grip from the bottom.  But its better to just tap when choke is in.  

I was rolling with a bb who is known for choking the life out of people and I honestly, for the first time, started to panic while fighting out of a choke. Thoughts of me having a stroke filled my mind and I felt broken. Damn you jv071481 lol 

Lol.  Its still rare and would never make me paranoid if it didnt happen to me.  We are noticing 40% have people were rolling with brown and blacks.  I'm assuming their chokes are more solid and get choked less than others so the data maybe skewed due to that itself.  ??‍????‍????‍??

11/1/19 11:25 AM
1/25/06
Posts: 4999

This is scary stuff

11/1/19 10:24 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 3299

Guess I better build my neck muscles. Never heard of this before. What about in judo?