David Jacobs' BJJGround Strokes in Jiu Jitsu

11/2/19 1:44 AM
9/23/07
Posts: 538
The Diet Butcher -

Guess I better build my neck muscles. Never heard of this before. What about in judo? 

Not quite sure.  I wonder if building those neck muscles will help.  I always stretched out my neck to increase flexibility.  I'm sure that didnt help.

11/2/19 5:31 AM
2/24/06
Posts: 6938

On a similar note, I was looking at the website for a kung fu school, & there were pics of the main teacher having things broken on his head, and then I listened to him speak in an interview, & he seemed to slur a little bit, and I wonder if he had some CTE from breaking things on his head in the past.

I was rolling once with a newbie and I was trying to go light, and my head bounced off the mat, and later that night I was losing my train of thought in mid sentence over and over again, forgetting what I was going to say.

11/2/19 1:11 PM
9/23/07
Posts: 539
ASBELTOMATO -

On a similar note, I was looking at the website for a kung fu school, & there were pics of the main teacher having things broken on his head, and then I listened to him speak in an interview, & he seemed to slur a little bit, and I wonder if he had some CTE from breaking things on his head in the past.

I was rolling once with a newbie and I was trying to go light, and my head bounced off the mat, and later that night I was losing my train of thought in mid sentence over and over again, forgetting what I was going to say.

Sounds like a concussion. 

11/2/19 9:26 PM
2/24/06
Posts: 6941
jv071481 - 
ASBELTOMATO -

On a similar note, I was looking at the website for a kung fu school, & there were pics of the main teacher having things broken on his head, and then I listened to him speak in an interview, & he seemed to slur a little bit, and I wonder if he had some CTE from breaking things on his head in the past.

I was rolling once with a newbie and I was trying to go light, and my head bounced off the mat, and later that night I was losing my train of thought in mid sentence over and over again, forgetting what I was going to say.

Sounds like a concussion. 


that's what I was thinking.

so that brought my total to two good concussions, and two minor.  not too bad I guess.

11/2/19 10:01 PM
9/23/07
Posts: 540
ASBELTOMATO -
jv071481 - 
ASBELTOMATO -

On a similar note, I was looking at the website for a kung fu school, & there were pics of the main teacher having things broken on his head, and then I listened to him speak in an interview, & he seemed to slur a little bit, and I wonder if he had some CTE from breaking things on his head in the past.

I was rolling once with a newbie and I was trying to go light, and my head bounced off the mat, and later that night I was losing my train of thought in mid sentence over and over again, forgetting what I was going to say.

Sounds like a concussion. 


that's what I was thinking.

so that brought my total to two good concussions, and two minor.  not too bad I guess.

Just make sure you dont gi back to soon.

11/2/19 11:20 PM
2/8/11
Posts: 710

Dwelling more on this I'm thinking that chokes that constrict via the blades of the wrist (especially from a really bony person) would be more likely to be stroke-ish than a choke from a meatier portion of the opponent's limbs. Ie, RNC or Triangle, where it's the thicker bicep, leg etc.

Those sorts of chokes hurt more, and feel 'more wrong' to me than an RNC/Triangle. It seems that there would be more sheering force on the arteries, but this is just me thinking out loud.

11/3/19 2:40 PM
9/23/07
Posts: 541
joe_mama -

Dwelling more on this I'm thinking that chokes that constrict via the blades of the wrist (especially from a really bony person) would be more likely to be stroke-ish than a choke from a meatier portion of the opponent's limbs. Ie, RNC or Triangle, where it's the thicker bicep, leg etc.

Those sorts of chokes hurt more, and feel 'more wrong' to me than an RNC/Triangle. It seems that there would be more sheering force on the arteries, but this is just me thinking out loud.

I would say don't overthink it.  Just be aware and don't worry about tapping to chokes or even torquing the neck with great pressure (kind of a d@$% move in piactice anyways)

11/3/19 8:40 PM
2/8/11
Posts: 711
jv071481 -
joe_mama -

Dwelling more on this I'm thinking that chokes that constrict via the blades of the wrist (especially from a really bony person) would be more likely to be stroke-ish than a choke from a meatier portion of the opponent's limbs. Ie, RNC or Triangle, where it's the thicker bicep, leg etc.

Those sorts of chokes hurt more, and feel 'more wrong' to me than an RNC/Triangle. It seems that there would be more sheering force on the arteries, but this is just me thinking out loud.

I would say don't overthink it.  Just be aware and don't worry about tapping to chokes or even torquing the neck with great pressure (kind of a d@$% move in piactice anyways)

Well it's not something to causing me additional stress really. As mentioned earlier, I've always been a little paranoid of extended chokes (not even about strokes per se).

I've just noticed that chokes that come from a bladed body part are more painful and sometimes even give me a headache vs getting a choke from a meaty limb. Wonder if there's an increased stroke risk (or any other injury risk for that matter) around this.

If someone conducts an extensive study, look into this as well!

11/3/19 9:29 PM
2/24/06
Posts: 6942
jv071481 - 
ASBELTOMATO -
jv071481 - 
ASBELTOMATO -

On a similar note, I was looking at the website for a kung fu school, & there were pics of the main teacher having things broken on his head, and then I listened to him speak in an interview, & he seemed to slur a little bit, and I wonder if he had some CTE from breaking things on his head in the past.

I was rolling once with a newbie and I was trying to go light, and my head bounced off the mat, and later that night I was losing my train of thought in mid sentence over and over again, forgetting what I was going to say.

Sounds like a concussion. 


that's what I was thinking.

so that brought my total to two good concussions, and two minor.  not too bad I guess.

Just make sure you dont gi back to soon.


Thanks. 

It happened years ago, so no problem.

11/3/19 11:07 PM
9/23/07
Posts: 542
joe_mama -
jv071481 -
joe_mama -

Dwelling more on this I'm thinking that chokes that constrict via the blades of the wrist (especially from a really bony person) would be more likely to be stroke-ish than a choke from a meatier portion of the opponent's limbs. Ie, RNC or Triangle, where it's the thicker bicep, leg etc.

Those sorts of chokes hurt more, and feel 'more wrong' to me than an RNC/Triangle. It seems that there would be more sheering force on the arteries, but this is just me thinking out loud.

I would say don't overthink it.  Just be aware and don't worry about tapping to chokes or even torquing the neck with great pressure (kind of a d@$% move in piactice anyways)

Well it's not something to causing me additional stress really. As mentioned earlier, I've always been a little paranoid of extended chokes (not even about strokes per se).

I've just noticed that chokes that come from a bladed body part are more painful and sometimes even give me a headache vs getting a choke from a meaty limb. Wonder if there's an increased stroke risk (or any other injury risk for that matter) around this.

If someone conducts an extensive study, look into this as well!

We are noticing a lot from cross chokes, bow and arrows, loops, and guillotines.  Of course there has been others but those are the dominant ones from our data Chris Martin and I have been getting from case studies.

11/4/19 2:07 AM
7/31/09
Posts: 5729

Jv I got your message but couldn't reply back because it said only friends can send you messages. I'll friend the guy on Facebook to see if he's ok with talking about his stroke. I've only rolled with him a few times and don't know him other than that.

11/4/19 3:44 AM
9/23/07
Posts: 543
robbie380 -

Jv I got your message but couldn't reply back because it said only friends can send you messages. I'll friend the guy on Facebook to see if he's ok with talking about his stroke. I've only rolled with him a few times and don't know him other than that.

Thanks.   I appreciate it. 

11/7/19 4:44 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 1928
Bukabuki - 

Please delete thid post. You hurting are bjj sport. This happens never. A stroke maybe they weak not ready for shark swimming. Never scene this happen and iam bobo in. Razil and c. Can say for fact ewe neederasepostforhurtsmembers


end thread right here! Only the weak have strokes, or heart attacks, or die. If you are worried about a stroke take up swimming.
11/9/19 4:40 AM
9/23/07
Posts: 547
Hey Beer Man -
Bukabuki - 

Please delete thid post. You hurting are bjj sport. This happens never. A stroke maybe they weak not ready for shark swimming. Never scene this happen and iam bobo in. Razil and c. Can say for fact ewe neederasepostforhurtsmembers


end thread right here! Only the weak have strokes, or heart attacks, or die. If you are worried about a stroke take up swimming.

I am a shark.  Wish i can show it still though. Ive been pretty successful in the BJJ circuits.  My stroke has tamed me thoughm. Surprising, we have been welcomed by the upper belts and coaches to talk about awareness.  A little push back from the middle belts which is kind of expected.  Fear to settle down for the white belts.  Its super rare, does it happen? Yes.  Does people know how to deal with it when it does?  Nope. Even the ERs are missing over 40% of them. We all love jiu jitsu and among all of us with previous strokes, most of us still train.  

 

But its all about spreading awareness....not fear.  I have trained for over 15 yrs in jiu jitsu and wrestling pretty much all my life.  I even broke my neck somewhere down the line that was picked up with a CT when they seen my dissection in the neck.  We are meat heads and are horrible at taking care of ourselves.  Its super rare, but just like football and the affects from concussions.  We need to be aware,  we will likely alter somewhat to make it safer, even its something as little as coaches stopping the neck cranking/face smashing.  

11/9/19 7:42 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 19152
jv071481 - 
Hey Beer Man -
Bukabuki - 

Please delete thid post. You hurting are bjj sport. This happens never. A stroke maybe they weak not ready for shark swimming. Never scene this happen and iam bobo in. Razil and c. Can say for fact ewe neederasepostforhurtsmembers


end thread right here! Only the weak have strokes, or heart attacks, or die. If you are worried about a stroke take up swimming.

I am a shark.  Wish i can show it still though. Ive been pretty successful in the BJJ circuits.  My stroke has tamed me thoughm. Surprising, we have been welcomed by the upper belts and coaches to talk about awareness.  A little push back from the middle belts which is kind of expected.  Fear to settle down for the white belts.  Its super rare, does it happen? Yes.  Does people know how to deal with it when it does?  Nope. Even the ERs are missing over 40% of them. We all love jiu jitsu and among all of us with previous strokes, most of us still train.  

 

But its all about spreading awareness....not fear.  I have trained for over 15 yrs in jiu jitsu and wrestling pretty much all my life.  I even broke my neck somewhere down the line that was picked up with a CT when they seen my dissection in the neck.  We are meat heads and are horrible at taking care of ourselves.  Its super rare, but just like football and the affects from concussions.  We need to be aware,  we will likely alter somewhat to make it safer, even its something as little as coaches stopping the neck cranking/face smashing.  


You have no need to defend your actions or motivations. You're doing important work. Keep going.
27 days ago
12/8/14
Posts: 132

This is very important work, I am loot forward to your findings. 

Edited: 21 days ago
2/9/09
Posts: 9536
jv071481 -
Hey Beer Man -
Bukabuki - 

Please delete thid post. You hurting are bjj sport. This happens never. A stroke maybe they weak not ready for shark swimming. Never scene this happen and iam bobo in. Razil and c. Can say for fact ewe neederasepostforhurtsmembers


end thread right here! Only the weak have strokes, or heart attacks, or die. If you are worried about a stroke take up swimming.

I am a shark.  Wish i can show it still though. Ive been pretty successful in the BJJ circuits.  My stroke has tamed me thoughm. Surprising, we have been welcomed by the upper belts and coaches to talk about awareness.  A little push back from the middle belts which is kind of expected.  Fear to settle down for the white belts.  Its super rare, does it happen? Yes.  Does people know how to deal with it when it does?  Nope. Even the ERs are missing over 40% of them. We all love jiu jitsu and among all of us with previous strokes, most of us still train.  

 

But its all about spreading awareness....not fear.  I have trained for over 15 yrs in jiu jitsu and wrestling pretty much all my life.  I even broke my neck somewhere down the line that was picked up with a CT when they seen my dissection in the neck.  We are meat heads and are horrible at taking care of ourselves.  Its super rare, but just like football and the affects from concussions.  We need to be aware,  we will likely alter somewhat to make it safer, even its something as little as coaches stopping the neck cranking/face smashing.  

Not saying you, but Im sure we have all had times where we try to muscle out of a choke or wait for the last second to tap. 

21 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 13765

i recently got a CAC scan of my heart, but i understand calcification also can happen in other areas such as carotid and lead to stroke obviously. My question is have any of the strokes been linked to these plaqques and calcification as the cause of the strokes?

 

 

21 days ago
2/9/09
Posts: 9547
Sgt. Slaphead -

i recently got a CAC scan of my heart, but i understand calcification also can happen in other areas such as carotid and lead to stroke obviously. My question is have any of the strokes been linked to these plaqques and calcification as the cause of the strokes?

 

 

I was assuming thats what it was, no? I thought it was plaque breaking off and causing a stroke

14 days ago
9/23/07
Posts: 550
The Closed Guard -
Sgt. Slaphead -

i recently got a CAC scan of my heart, but i understand calcification also can happen in other areas such as carotid and lead to stroke obviously. My question is have any of the strokes been linked to these plaqques and calcification as the cause of the strokes?

 

 

I was assuming thats what it was, no? I thought it was plaque breaking off and causing a stroke

There was 1 or 2 in the 85 we have found so far but its usually because tears in the arteries of the neck not holding to long.  I kind of feel the hyperflexion that some of us get in our necks can predispose us to tears but thats just an assumption.