7/25/19 4:18 PM
6/18/19
Posts: 163

Wish he and Royce would have had 2nd match..

7/25/19 4:29 PM
9/29/02
Posts: 24477

Why? Wallid beats Royce every time.

7/25/19 4:43 PM
6/18/19
Posts: 165
Philip Proctor - Why? Wallid beats Royce every time.

They had one match... Royce dominated standing and would have done much better in a 2nd match.. His grappling skills are seriously underrated..
Edited: 7/25/19 6:01 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 34636
tajmills - 
Philip Proctor - Why? Wallid beats Royce every time.

They had one match... Royce dominated standing and would have done much better in a 2nd match.. His grappling skills are seriously underrated..

 

He would lose again.

I can't even imagine a way Royce could beat him.

Wallid ALSO beat Ralph & Renzo, both of whom are better than Royce.

7/25/19 6:48 PM
6/18/19
Posts: 166
shen - 
tajmills - 
Philip Proctor - Why? Wallid beats Royce every time.

They had one match... Royce dominated standing and would have done much better in a 2nd match.. His grappling skills are seriously underrated..

 

He would lose again.

I can't even imagine a way Royce could beat him.

Wallid ALSO beat Ralph & Renzo, both of whom are better than Royce.


Royce tapped Renzo right before UFC... HE might be a better overall fighter but I'm pure BJJ, not so sure... Ralph doubt it...
7/25/19 6:49 PM
12/21/04
Posts: 1978

Wallid is arguably one of the most tenacious BJJ competitors of all time. Someone you had to practically kill to stop moving. And he was so hard to submit. Roleta who had one of the most dangerous guards of the 90s and was a 4x world champion and 2x runner up absolute world champion was unable to tap Wallid and did not sweep him until the last minute or two of their historic match.

7/25/19 6:57 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 10882
tajmills -
shen - 
tajmills - 
Philip Proctor - Why? Wallid beats Royce every time.

They had one match... Royce dominated standing and would have done much better in a 2nd match.. His grappling skills are seriously underrated..

 

He would lose again.

I can't even imagine a way Royce could beat him.

Wallid ALSO beat Ralph & Renzo, both of whom are better than Royce.


Royce tapped Renzo right before UFC... HE might be a better overall fighter but I'm pure BJJ, not so sure... Ralph doubt it...

renzo and wallid both have polluted the once crystal clear stream of knowledge that flowed from helio

7/25/19 7:04 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 37406
tajmills -
Philip Proctor - Why? Wallid beats Royce every time.

They had one match... Royce dominated standing and would have done much better in a 2nd match.. His grappling skills are seriously underrated..

Just stop. Rillion told Royce before the match exactly what Wallid was going to do and not to take him lightly. Royce was good, Wallid was better. 

7/26/19 12:49 AM
4/2/13
Posts: 6270

Awesome! Love to see the old guard still rolling,  what an honor to share the mat with legends.

7/26/19 12:51 AM
4/2/13
Posts: 6271
SpeedKing9 -
GaspareBJJ - 
Fast Pitch -
blabbermouth -

"He has a MEAN body lock that he goes for from seated for standing passers -"

 

Can you tell me more about this? He bear-hugged you from sitting guard? I can potentially use this in my game.

Yes I'd like to hear more about this too please. 

This too and his general bottom game


Our second roll I started in his closed guard. I can tell you this, it doesn't seem like he has a guard. His goal was to hip heist as soon as possible to wrestle you.

I 2-on-1 pin an arm pinned to his belly to stand pass and get vertical posture. I broke his closed guard and I am in his open guard and this is where a modern day guard player would typically go shin to shin, look for a single or elevate etc. and instead he hip heist and wrenched the tightest body lock to fold me back and bulldozed me forward (and meanwhile captured the inside space with his head.) He gets me on my back but I managed to stiff arm and hip heist in a scramble and had him in a front headlock and attempting a go behind but he was comfortable wrestling and ultimately it led me to turtle and that's what he was looking for. That was a home base position for him. Man, he hovered my hips and made me pay for turtling. That was one of my big takeaways was that when I attack turtle, I am not punishing enough. It was a great lesson. From there, he gets that single hook and it's just downhill from there.

Shen, that's really cool! I knew he visited before but I had no idea he taught a class. You can just tell Rey and Wallid had total wars with each other, it was just great to even witness the banter between them.

Speedking, just curious what you weigh and what Wallid weighs and do you think that had any bearing on how the rolls went?

7/26/19 1:33 AM
3/17/08
Posts: 4415

I remember Bolao telling me years and years ago about going to Wallid's house back in the day and how he had it set up with ropes or string and how he would duck under and shoot his way through the house. Haha.

Edited: 7/26/19 2:02 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 519
Robobear - 
SpeedKing9 -
GaspareBJJ - 
Fast Pitch -
blabbermouth -

"He has a MEAN body lock that he goes for from seated for standing passers -"

 

Can you tell me more about this? He bear-hugged you from sitting guard? I can potentially use this in my game.

Yes I'd like to hear more about this too please. 

This too and his general bottom game


Our second roll I started in his closed guard. I can tell you this, it doesn't seem like he has a guard. His goal was to hip heist as soon as possible to wrestle you.

I 2-on-1 pin an arm pinned to his belly to stand pass and get vertical posture. I broke his closed guard and I am in his open guard and this is where a modern day guard player would typically go shin to shin, look for a single or elevate etc. and instead he hip heist and wrenched the tightest body lock to fold me back and bulldozed me forward (and meanwhile captured the inside space with his head.) He gets me on my back but I managed to stiff arm and hip heist in a scramble and had him in a front headlock and attempting a go behind but he was comfortable wrestling and ultimately it led me to turtle and that's what he was looking for. That was a home base position for him. Man, he hovered my hips and made me pay for turtling. That was one of my big takeaways was that when I attack turtle, I am not punishing enough. It was a great lesson. From there, he gets that single hook and it's just downhill from there.

Shen, that's really cool! I knew he visited before but I had no idea he taught a class. You can just tell Rey and Wallid had total wars with each other, it was just great to even witness the banter between them.

Speedking, just curious what you weigh and what Wallid weighs and do you think that had any bearing on how the rolls went?


I weigh anywhere from 165 to 170. I don't know what he weighs but if I had to guess, maybe 180ish.

My academy is filled with guys in the 220-300 lb range. I am used to heavy and pressure. His pressure felt different. I don't know how to explain it. A large difference, however, is that our intensities were on two different levels. I didn't roll at 100% and he was.

I actually got reamed out by Rey the next day - he said he knew I could better but I was acting too "respectful" and he said people will exploit this. (as he always says, smoke or be smoked) That a roll is a contest to see who taps first, and this line should not get blurred. He's not wrong, I guess I just felt like it was lose\lose. Do I go balls to the walls hard against a visitor, a well known visitor at that? One that I had been watching his career since the 90's? Since I was in high school? Or do I try to match intensity (but be a step behind, and in this cases many steps behind). Ultimately, I am incredibly happy to have the pleasure to roll with him and it will probably be one of my top memorable Jiu Jitsu moments. I felt like I learned more in that 30 minute roll than months of training.

7/26/19 4:34 AM
8/30/09
Posts: 1674
joemasepoes -

Was he just training for fun , or is he preparing for an upcoming match ?

 

Awesome thread , thanks for sharing

Speedking 9 , did he mention getting ready for an upcoming match / fight ?

7/26/19 9:33 AM
3/28/02
Posts: 6949
tajmills -
shen - 
tajmills - 
Philip Proctor - Why? Wallid beats Royce every time.

They had one match... Royce dominated standing and would have done much better in a 2nd match.. His grappling skills are seriously underrated..

 

He would lose again.

I can't even imagine a way Royce could beat him.

Wallid ALSO beat Ralph & Renzo, both of whom are better than Royce.


Royce tapped Renzo right before UFC... HE might be a better overall fighter but I'm pure BJJ, not so sure... Ralph doubt it...

stop drinking the Royce kool-aide

his BJJ simply wasnt on the same level as Wallid

 

7/26/19 1:19 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 10889

^ taj is an interwebz blue belt i reckon

7/26/19 2:58 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 3044

Isn't Wallid and Renzo suppose to be fighting MMA soon?

7/26/19 3:28 PM
6/22/19
Posts: 23

I had his Panther videos. Too bad I purged them.

7/26/19 5:32 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 515

Very cool!

7/27/19 2:15 AM
11/25/09
Posts: 4483

A lot of interesting takes. I've heard many stories of the old Carlson days, ones like Wallid fighting Edson (might have been Pedro?) Carvalho was probably my favorite, them going through the window on the 2nd floor. 

7/27/19 8:52 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 18528
tajmills -
shen - 
tajmills - 
Philip Proctor - Why? Wallid beats Royce every time.

They had one match... Royce dominated standing and would have done much better in a 2nd match.. His grappling skills are seriously underrated..

 

He would lose again.

I can't even imagine a way Royce could beat him.

Wallid ALSO beat Ralph & Renzo, both of whom are better than Royce.


Royce tapped Renzo right before UFC... HE might be a better overall fighter but I'm pure BJJ, not so sure... Ralph doubt it...

According to Royce?  

7/27/19 8:59 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 18529
SpeedKing9 -
Robobear - 
SpeedKing9 -
GaspareBJJ - 
Fast Pitch -
blabbermouth -

"He has a MEAN body lock that he goes for from seated for standing passers -"

 

Can you tell me more about this? He bear-hugged you from sitting guard? I can potentially use this in my game.

Yes I'd like to hear more about this too please. 

This too and his general bottom game


Our second roll I started in his closed guard. I can tell you this, it doesn't seem like he has a guard. His goal was to hip heist as soon as possible to wrestle you.

I 2-on-1 pin an arm pinned to his belly to stand pass and get vertical posture. I broke his closed guard and I am in his open guard and this is where a modern day guard player would typically go shin to shin, look for a single or elevate etc. and instead he hip heist and wrenched the tightest body lock to fold me back and bulldozed me forward (and meanwhile captured the inside space with his head.) He gets me on my back but I managed to stiff arm and hip heist in a scramble and had him in a front headlock and attempting a go behind but he was comfortable wrestling and ultimately it led me to turtle and that's what he was looking for. That was a home base position for him. Man, he hovered my hips and made me pay for turtling. That was one of my big takeaways was that when I attack turtle, I am not punishing enough. It was a great lesson. From there, he gets that single hook and it's just downhill from there.

Shen, that's really cool! I knew he visited before but I had no idea he taught a class. You can just tell Rey and Wallid had total wars with each other, it was just great to even witness the banter between them.

Speedking, just curious what you weigh and what Wallid weighs and do you think that had any bearing on how the rolls went?


I weigh anywhere from 165 to 170. I don't know what he weighs but if I had to guess, maybe 180ish.

My academy is filled with guys in the 220-300 lb range. I am used to heavy and pressure. His pressure felt different. I don't know how to explain it. A large difference, however, is that our intensities were on two different levels. I didn't roll at 100% and he was.

I actually got reamed out by Rey the next day - he said he knew I could better but I was acting too "respectful" and he said people will exploit this. (as he always says, smoke or be smoked) That a roll is a contest to see who taps first, and this line should not get blurred. He's not wrong, I guess I just felt like it was lose\lose. Do I go balls to the walls hard against a visitor, a well known visitor at that? One that I had been watching his career since the 90's? Since I was in high school? Or do I try to match intensity (but be a step behind, and in this cases many steps behind). Ultimately, I am incredibly happy to have the pleasure to roll with him and it will probably be one of my top memorable Jiu Jitsu moments. I felt like I learned more in that 30 minute roll than months of training.

Hahaha, you were representing Rey against his rival :).  But for sure I understand where you're coming from and I would have rolled the same way.

Edited: 7/27/19 10:06 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 10895
tajmills -
shen - 
tajmills - 
Philip Proctor - Why? Wallid beats Royce every time.

They had one match... Royce dominated standing and would have done much better in a 2nd match.. His grappling skills are seriously underrated..

 

He would lose again.

I can't even imagine a way Royce could beat him.

Wallid ALSO beat Ralph & Renzo, both of whom are better than Royce.


Royce tapped Renzo right before UFC... HE might be a better overall fighter but I'm pure BJJ, not so sure... Ralph doubt it...

Ralph and Renzo would run circles around Royce, and that's not a negative comment on Royce either. Sperry always held his defeat of Royler was more impressive than Wallids' over Royce, given the fact that Royler was a world champion several times over and Royce hardly ever competed in brazil, and when he did, he lost.

Lest i be accused of being a lying, pedantic knothead

7/28/19 6:41 AM
5/7/06
Posts: 2338

I rolled with uncle Rey when he dropped by our academy (carlson gracie amsterdam). He was waiting for me outside, smoking a huge cigar, like a boss. Then drove a tractor over my guard and took my head off. I expected it, because we're carlsons, but there wasn't a damn thing i could do to stop it.

Super awesome guy. I can only imagine the presh that wallid can bring. 

7/28/19 4:08 PM
4/2/13
Posts: 6273
SpeedKing9 -
Robobear - 
SpeedKing9 -
GaspareBJJ - 
Fast Pitch -
blabbermouth -

"He has a MEAN body lock that he goes for from seated for standing passers -"

 

Can you tell me more about this? He bear-hugged you from sitting guard? I can potentially use this in my game.

Yes I'd like to hear more about this too please. 

This too and his general bottom game


Our second roll I started in his closed guard. I can tell you this, it doesn't seem like he has a guard. His goal was to hip heist as soon as possible to wrestle you.

I 2-on-1 pin an arm pinned to his belly to stand pass and get vertical posture. I broke his closed guard and I am in his open guard and this is where a modern day guard player would typically go shin to shin, look for a single or elevate etc. and instead he hip heist and wrenched the tightest body lock to fold me back and bulldozed me forward (and meanwhile captured the inside space with his head.) He gets me on my back but I managed to stiff arm and hip heist in a scramble and had him in a front headlock and attempting a go behind but he was comfortable wrestling and ultimately it led me to turtle and that's what he was looking for. That was a home base position for him. Man, he hovered my hips and made me pay for turtling. That was one of my big takeaways was that when I attack turtle, I am not punishing enough. It was a great lesson. From there, he gets that single hook and it's just downhill from there.

Shen, that's really cool! I knew he visited before but I had no idea he taught a class. You can just tell Rey and Wallid had total wars with each other, it was just great to even witness the banter between them.

Speedking, just curious what you weigh and what Wallid weighs and do you think that had any bearing on how the rolls went?


I weigh anywhere from 165 to 170. I don't know what he weighs but if I had to guess, maybe 180ish.

My academy is filled with guys in the 220-300 lb range. I am used to heavy and pressure. His pressure felt different. I don't know how to explain it. A large difference, however, is that our intensities were on two different levels. I didn't roll at 100% and he was.

I actually got reamed out by Rey the next day - he said he knew I could better but I was acting too "respectful" and he said people will exploit this. (as he always says, smoke or be smoked) That a roll is a contest to see who taps first, and this line should not get blurred. He's not wrong, I guess I just felt like it was lose\lose. Do I go balls to the walls hard against a visitor, a well known visitor at that? One that I had been watching his career since the 90's? Since I was in high school? Or do I try to match intensity (but be a step behind, and in this cases many steps behind). Ultimately, I am incredibly happy to have the pleasure to roll with him and it will probably be one of my top memorable Jiu Jitsu moments. I felt like I learned more in that 30 minute roll than months of training.

I hear you.  I think I'm incredibly lucky that a whole lot of guys pass through hawaii.  I did get the occasional scolding from Relson when I'm "nice" to visiting celebs.  I think Brazilians as a whole come hard and fast out of the gate and settle down after they know you.  It's always good to see that your jiujitsu is at least on par with the old school, for me that is always the test of success. 

7/30/19 5:51 PM
7/30/03
Posts: 7257

Remember when Isreal Adesanya was on Rogan talking about Wallis with no idea who he was? I was thinking, that old man would whoop your ass. Lol