David Jacobs' BJJGround What (When) is "Old School" BJJ?

24 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 39450

What if you polled a bunch of living Red Belts --guys who have been training 50 years-- the Barretos,Strauch, etc...

Do you think they would agree with these definitions?



24 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 3562

For me oldschool is a mindset, a strategy than can be developed through all the years.

  • It must lead to a submission or positional dominance to strike from
  • It must work against bigger guys also
  • It must work with 20, 35 or even 50
24 days ago
1/18/06
Posts: 878

Old School: Pretending there's any good reason to devote hundreds of hours to preparing for a fight you can probably avoid

 

New School: Pretending that you're prepared for said fight despite not doing any training for it

Edited: 24 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 10601

It's a silly expression used by flexible people - who want to invert - to describe inflexible people who don't want to learn new principles of an evolving art.

23 days ago
9/20/19
Posts: 5215
mideastgrappler -

if I use the term "old school" as a derogatory term, I refer to the 90's primitive grappling >

1) only passing on the knees, elbows down tight,not very mobile

2) resistant to any new ideas or positions outside of their spectrum of knowledge

3) claiming other techniques and positions "dont work in real fights" 

4) extremely limited repotoire of techniques. Use of dirty techniques that only work on weaker, smaller, opponents with less experience. 

Regardless that it is 2020, many people still adhere to this limited way of thinking, including some experienced, well known black belts

 

When I use the term "old school" as a complimentary term, or in admiration of very solid fundamentals, I consider "old-school" to be about 2008 and earlier. Some very good black belts who started and came up doing BJJ back in the vale tudo/mma era who have kept up to the new evolution of the sport, and are aware of the new trends but don't use them have like this:

1) offensive trapping, and dangerous closed guards that attack posture very well, and a strong willingness to fight to keep their guards closed, and do not accept playing open guard easily unless forced to

2) when forced to play open guard, their emphasis is to keep you at bay to suck you back into closed guard. Open guard is reserved for defense and submission attacks. Also, many of their open guard sweeps consist of takedown like attacks like singles and double legs. 

3) strong half and butterfly guards to hunt the back and sweep/takedown

4) strong ability to attack and retain mount position. this is an area I see is weaker with newer school black belts. Many of the older school black belts have strong mount offense. However, I think newer, modern black belts have a better offense and retention when attacking the back position

5) heavy pressure passing favored over speed passing with footwork. Competant in both, but a preference in stack, over under, and forcing half guard to pass with pressure.

6) competency in judo and wrestling. They dont have to be elite level at them but a high level of competency at them and against others who are also experienced in takedowns.

6) vale tudo/mma knowledge and experience. They may have started their BJJ training and careers with fighting in mind but after years of doing it, their bodies can no longer handle regular training with striking so they adapt and end u doing only sport BJJ in physical practice.

7) strong understanding of techniques, tactics, and how things work. they can adapt and learn things well by just observing. 

 

Good post. I agree. 

23 days ago
4/2/13
Posts: 6325
dokomoy -

Old School: Pretending there's any good reason to devote hundreds of hours to preparing for a fight you can probably avoid

 

New School: Pretending that you're prepared for said fight despite not doing any training for it

Pretty much this.

23 days ago
7/4/06
Posts: 26
dokomoy - 

Old School: Pretending there's any good reason to devote hundreds of hours to preparing for a fight you can probably avoid

 

New School: Pretending that you're prepared for said fight despite not doing any training for it


this right here
22 days ago
2/8/11
Posts: 806
liquidrob -
joe_mama - 

"Old school" is any technique that can be used in a real fight.


So everything? You can use anything in a real fight

Keenan plays lapel stuff in street clothes lol

His Hoodie string choke game is solid also

High percentage stuff by your average practitioner. No worm guard/draw string guard savants.

22 days ago
3/28/02
Posts: 9336
dokomoy -

Old School: Pretending there's any good reason to devote hundreds of hours to preparing for a fight you can probably avoid

 

New School: Pretending that you're prepared for said fight despite not doing any training for it

true

Edited: 21 days ago
4/28/11
Posts: 954

Old school to me would be people who use solid basics and pressure while maintaining strong posture that will let them defend against strikes as well as grappling.

So a lot of new school is just a different take on old school.

21 days ago
8/15/07
Posts: 20551
Old school: everyone training in the gi because Royce trained in the gi. No gi by itself wasn't really a thing.

Training under a blue belt because the closest black belt was four hours away.

Training with the expectation of one day fighting in the UFC (wasn't so far-fetched in the early days).

Scrounging the internet for small, grainy vids of big name guys competing in Brazil.

Planning on one day moving to Brazil to train (before everyone down there all moved to the States).

Having Vitamins & Minerals or Chute Boxe gear.

Being aware of headbutts.

Watching VHS copies of UFC events and trying to re-enact the techniques.

Having Matt Furey offer to unleash the sex secrets of the ghost of Farmer Burns on you and your missus for just a few easy payments.

Letting guys punch you (with boxing gloves on) as you attempted ugly, ugly double legs.

Knowing you were a bad ass if you were wearing an Atama or Koral gi.


-------------------------------------------------------

New school: inverting just for the hell of it.

Scooting across the mat like a wormy dog.

Unnecessarily complicated grips and positions that would just get you punched in the face in a real fight.

Training in the A/C, never bleeding on the mat, and acting offended if you ask how a certain technique would work if strikes were involved.



The attitudes between the two "schools" are just as different as the techniques. Old school bites off a plug of tobacco, spits, and wades into battle. New school schedules a session of strange and possibly erotic footplay after their mani-pedi is done.
20 days ago
5/15/09
Posts: 6113

Context is key. "Old school" is generally used as a condescending term applied to condemn techniques someone can't do (but they package it as won't do)

20 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 19270
HillboFrateTrane - 
mideastgrappler -

if I use the term "old school" as a derogatory term, I refer to the 90's primitive grappling >

1) only passing on the knees, elbows down tight,not very mobile

2) resistant to any new ideas or positions outside of their spectrum of knowledge

3) claiming other techniques and positions "dont work in real fights" 

4) extremely limited repotoire of techniques. Use of dirty techniques that only work on weaker, smaller, opponents with less experience. 

Regardless that it is 2020, many people still adhere to this limited way of thinking, including some experienced, well known black belts

 

When I use the term "old school" as a complimentary term, or in admiration of very solid fundamentals, I consider "old-school" to be about 2008 and earlier. Some very good black belts who started and came up doing BJJ back in the vale tudo/mma era who have kept up to the new evolution of the sport, and are aware of the new trends but don't use them have like this:

1) offensive trapping, and dangerous closed guards that attack posture very well, and a strong willingness to fight to keep their guards closed, and do not accept playing open guard easily unless forced to

2) when forced to play open guard, their emphasis is to keep you at bay to suck you back into closed guard. Open guard is reserved for defense and submission attacks. Also, many of their open guard sweeps consist of takedown like attacks like singles and double legs. 

3) strong half and butterfly guards to hunt the back and sweep/takedown

4) strong ability to attack and retain mount position. this is an area I see is weaker with newer school black belts. Many of the older school black belts have strong mount offense. However, I think newer, modern black belts have a better offense and retention when attacking the back position

5) heavy pressure passing favored over speed passing with footwork. Competant in both, but a preference in stack, over under, and forcing half guard to pass with pressure.

6) competency in judo and wrestling. They dont have to be elite level at them but a high level of competency at them and against others who are also experienced in takedowns.

6) vale tudo/mma knowledge and experience. They may have started their BJJ training and careers with fighting in mind but after years of doing it, their bodies can no longer handle regular training with striking so they adapt and end u doing only sport BJJ in physical practice.

7) strong understanding of techniques, tactics, and how things work. they can adapt and learn things well by just observing. 

 

Good post. I agree. 


Agreed

20 days ago
9/9/02
Posts: 13557
Soul Gravy - Old school: everyone training in the gi because Royce trained in the gi. No gi by itself wasn't really a thing.

Training under a blue belt because the closest black belt was four hours away.

Training with the expectation of one day fighting in the UFC (wasn't so far-fetched in the early days).

Scrounging the internet for small, grainy vids of big name guys competing in Brazil.

Planning on one day moving to Brazil to train (before everyone down there all moved to the States).

Having Vitamins & Minerals or Chute Boxe gear.

Being aware of headbutts.

Watching VHS copies of UFC events and trying to re-enact the techniques.

Having Matt Furey offer to unleash the sex secrets of the ghost of Farmer Burns on you and your missus for just a few easy payments.

Letting guys punch you (with boxing gloves on) as you attempted ugly, ugly double legs.

Knowing you were a bad ass if you were wearing an Atama or Koral gi.


-------------------------------------------------------

New school: inverting just for the hell of it.

Scooting across the mat like a wormy dog.

Unnecessarily complicated grips and positions that would just get you punched in the face in a real fight.

Training in the A/C, never bleeding on the mat, and acting offended if you ask how a certain technique would work if strikes were involved.



The attitudes between the two "schools" are just as different as the techniques. Old school bites off a plug of tobacco, spits, and wades into battle. New school schedules a session of strange and possibly erotic footplay after their mani-pedi is done.

Old School: Getting berimbolo'd and bow and arrowed by a nerdy blue belt at open mat but knowing if it was in da streetz you would have totally his kicked ass!

20 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 2013
kennyfrommd -

Context is key. "Old school" is generally used as a condescending term applied to condemn techniques someone can't do (but they package it as won't do)

That is how I feel about new school. I’ve never even tried to berimbolo or worm guard. 

18 days ago
8/15/07
Posts: 20567
liquidrob - 
Soul Gravy - Old school: everyone training in the gi because Royce trained in the gi. No gi by itself wasn't really a thing.

Training under a blue belt because the closest black belt was four hours away.

Training with the expectation of one day fighting in the UFC (wasn't so far-fetched in the early days).

Scrounging the internet for small, grainy vids of big name guys competing in Brazil.

Planning on one day moving to Brazil to train (before everyone down there all moved to the States).

Having Vitamins & Minerals or Chute Boxe gear.

Being aware of headbutts.

Watching VHS copies of UFC events and trying to re-enact the techniques.

Having Matt Furey offer to unleash the sex secrets of the ghost of Farmer Burns on you and your missus for just a few easy payments.

Letting guys punch you (with boxing gloves on) as you attempted ugly, ugly double legs.

Knowing you were a bad ass if you were wearing an Atama or Koral gi.


-------------------------------------------------------

New school: inverting just for the hell of it.

Scooting across the mat like a wormy dog.

Unnecessarily complicated grips and positions that would just get you punched in the face in a real fight.

Training in the A/C, never bleeding on the mat, and acting offended if you ask how a certain technique would work if strikes were involved.



The attitudes between the two "schools" are just as different as the techniques. Old school bites off a plug of tobacco, spits, and wades into battle. New school schedules a session of strange and possibly erotic footplay after their mani-pedi is done.

Old School: Getting berimbolo'd and bow and arrowed by a nerdy blue belt at open mat but knowing if it was in da streetz you would have totally his kicked ass!


Most of those nerdy blue belts wouldn't be able to handle the physical intensity of the old school guys.
18 days ago
8/28/10
Posts: 13988
Soul Gravy -
liquidrob - 
Soul Gravy - Old school: everyone training in the gi because Royce trained in the gi. No gi by itself wasn't really a thing.

Training under a blue belt because the closest black belt was four hours away.

Training with the expectation of one day fighting in the UFC (wasn't so far-fetched in the early days).

Scrounging the internet for small, grainy vids of big name guys competing in Brazil.

Planning on one day moving to Brazil to train (before everyone down there all moved to the States).

Having Vitamins & Minerals or Chute Boxe gear.

Being aware of headbutts.

Watching VHS copies of UFC events and trying to re-enact the techniques.

Having Matt Furey offer to unleash the sex secrets of the ghost of Farmer Burns on you and your missus for just a few easy payments.

Letting guys punch you (with boxing gloves on) as you attempted ugly, ugly double legs.

Knowing you were a bad ass if you were wearing an Atama or Koral gi.


-------------------------------------------------------

New school: inverting just for the hell of it.

Scooting across the mat like a wormy dog.

Unnecessarily complicated grips and positions that would just get you punched in the face in a real fight.

Training in the A/C, never bleeding on the mat, and acting offended if you ask how a certain technique would work if strikes were involved.



The attitudes between the two "schools" are just as different as the techniques. Old school bites off a plug of tobacco, spits, and wades into battle. New school schedules a session of strange and possibly erotic footplay after their mani-pedi is done.

Old School: Getting berimbolo'd and bow and arrowed by a nerdy blue belt at open mat but knowing if it was in da streetz you would have totally his kicked ass!


Most of those nerdy blue belts wouldn't be able to handle the physical intensity of the old school guys.

Shit I've been around for a little while and I barely can lol

18 days ago
2/15/14
Posts: 994
Soul Gravy -
liquidrob - 
Soul Gravy - Old school: everyone training in the gi because Royce trained in the gi. No gi by itself wasn't really a thing.

Training under a blue belt because the closest black belt was four hours away.

Training with the expectation of one day fighting in the UFC (wasn't so far-fetched in the early days).

Scrounging the internet for small, grainy vids of big name guys competing in Brazil.

Planning on one day moving to Brazil to train (before everyone down there all moved to the States).

Having Vitamins & Minerals or Chute Boxe gear.

Being aware of headbutts.

Watching VHS copies of UFC events and trying to re-enact the techniques.

Having Matt Furey offer to unleash the sex secrets of the ghost of Farmer Burns on you and your missus for just a few easy payments.

Letting guys punch you (with boxing gloves on) as you attempted ugly, ugly double legs.

Knowing you were a bad ass if you were wearing an Atama or Koral gi.


-------------------------------------------------------

New school: inverting just for the hell of it.

Scooting across the mat like a wormy dog.

Unnecessarily complicated grips and positions that would just get you punched in the face in a real fight.

Training in the A/C, never bleeding on the mat, and acting offended if you ask how a certain technique would work if strikes were involved.



The attitudes between the two "schools" are just as different as the techniques. Old school bites off a plug of tobacco, spits, and wades into battle. New school schedules a session of strange and possibly erotic footplay after their mani-pedi is done.

Old School: Getting berimbolo'd and bow and arrowed by a nerdy blue belt at open mat but knowing if it was in da streetz you would have totally his kicked ass!


Most of those nerdy blue belts wouldn't be able to handle the physical intensity of the old school guys.

provided they are the same size, they would more than handle

 

one thing about guys who constantly say "old school" is the best and that they won't do new school stuff, is that they usually only roll with guys who are at least half their size. Preferably about 100lbs weight advantage is good. Nearly all of these "old school" guys won't roll with guys their size, or bigger. Especially if said big guy has a "newer school" >

18 days ago
8/15/07
Posts: 20568
mideastgrappler - 
Soul Gravy -
liquidrob - 
Soul Gravy - Old school: everyone training in the gi because Royce trained in the gi. No gi by itself wasn't really a thing.

Training under a blue belt because the closest black belt was four hours away.

Training with the expectation of one day fighting in the UFC (wasn't so far-fetched in the early days).

Scrounging the internet for small, grainy vids of big name guys competing in Brazil.

Planning on one day moving to Brazil to train (before everyone down there all moved to the States).

Having Vitamins & Minerals or Chute Boxe gear.

Being aware of headbutts.

Watching VHS copies of UFC events and trying to re-enact the techniques.

Having Matt Furey offer to unleash the sex secrets of the ghost of Farmer Burns on you and your missus for just a few easy payments.

Letting guys punch you (with boxing gloves on) as you attempted ugly, ugly double legs.

Knowing you were a bad ass if you were wearing an Atama or Koral gi.


-------------------------------------------------------

New school: inverting just for the hell of it.

Scooting across the mat like a wormy dog.

Unnecessarily complicated grips and positions that would just get you punched in the face in a real fight.

Training in the A/C, never bleeding on the mat, and acting offended if you ask how a certain technique would work if strikes were involved.



The attitudes between the two "schools" are just as different as the techniques. Old school bites off a plug of tobacco, spits, and wades into battle. New school schedules a session of strange and possibly erotic footplay after their mani-pedi is done.

Old School: Getting berimbolo'd and bow and arrowed by a nerdy blue belt at open mat but knowing if it was in da streetz you would have totally his kicked ass!


Most of those nerdy blue belts wouldn't be able to handle the physical intensity of the old school guys.

provided they are the same size, they would more than handle

 

one thing about guys who constantly say "old school" is the best and that they won't do new school stuff, is that they usually only roll with guys who are at least half their size. Preferably about 100lbs weight advantage is good. Nearly all of these "old school" guys won't roll with guys their size, or bigger. Especially if said big guy has a "newer school" >


You think the guys from the era of no weight divisions have a problem rolling with people their own size or bigger?

The same people who approached BJJ from a vale tudo perspective and knew they had a very good a chance of fighting someone larger than them when they stepped in the cage?

Naw, get the fuck out of here with that bullshit.
18 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 13919
Soul Gravy -
mideastgrappler - 
Soul Gravy -
liquidrob - 
Soul Gravy - Old school: everyone training in the gi because Royce trained in the gi. No gi by itself wasn't really a thing.

Training under a blue belt because the closest black belt was four hours away.

Training with the expectation of one day fighting in the UFC (wasn't so far-fetched in the early days).

Scrounging the internet for small, grainy vids of big name guys competing in Brazil.

Planning on one day moving to Brazil to train (before everyone down there all moved to the States).

Having Vitamins & Minerals or Chute Boxe gear.

Being aware of headbutts.

Watching VHS copies of UFC events and trying to re-enact the techniques.

Having Matt Furey offer to unleash the sex secrets of the ghost of Farmer Burns on you and your missus for just a few easy payments.

Letting guys punch you (with boxing gloves on) as you attempted ugly, ugly double legs.

Knowing you were a bad ass if you were wearing an Atama or Koral gi.


-------------------------------------------------------

New school: inverting just for the hell of it.

Scooting across the mat like a wormy dog.

Unnecessarily complicated grips and positions that would just get you punched in the face in a real fight.

Training in the A/C, never bleeding on the mat, and acting offended if you ask how a certain technique would work if strikes were involved.



The attitudes between the two "schools" are just as different as the techniques. Old school bites off a plug of tobacco, spits, and wades into battle. New school schedules a session of strange and possibly erotic footplay after their mani-pedi is done.

Old School: Getting berimbolo'd and bow and arrowed by a nerdy blue belt at open mat but knowing if it was in da streetz you would have totally his kicked ass!


Most of those nerdy blue belts wouldn't be able to handle the physical intensity of the old school guys.

provided they are the same size, they would more than handle

 

one thing about guys who constantly say "old school" is the best and that they won't do new school stuff, is that they usually only roll with guys who are at least half their size. Preferably about 100lbs weight advantage is good. Nearly all of these "old school" guys won't roll with guys their size, or bigger. Especially if said big guy has a "newer school" >


You think the guys from the era of no weight divisions have a problem rolling with people their own size or bigger?

The same people who approached BJJ from a vale tudo perspective and knew they had a very good a chance of fighting someone larger than them when they stepped in the cage?

Naw, get the fuck out of here with that bullshit.

LMMFAO....INDEED!

 

So "Bes fite inna whirl" only works when you're bigger than your opponent?  But tue faggotry of new school never train to apply jiujitsu in a fight is somehow for killing giants......GTFO

17 days ago
9/7/17
Posts: 681
Hey Beer Man - 
kennyfrommd -

Context is key. "Old school" is generally used as a condescending term applied to condemn techniques someone can't do (but they package it as won't do)

That is how I feel about new school. I’ve never even tried to berimbolo or worm guard. 


I'm not picking on you but I've always found it kind of funny that when most people say new school' they usually think of guard or bottom stuff. Your examples about berimbolo and worm guard come to mind. Most of the current heel hook entries come from guard. And maybe there's some merit there because drilling trendy new things from guard is less tiring usually than drilling trendy new passing things.

But when I think 'new school' I also think about a lot of top game things. I think about leg drag passing, float passing (basing on your hands and leg pummeling instead of posting on your feet or knees and arm pummeling), active-post passing, D'arce/brabo, high elbow guillotine, attacking guard with rolling kimuras, attacking guard with rolling head and arms (guillotine/darce/anaconda), body lock passing, cradle passing, top-side saddle, Japanese neckties, and most recently the foot stomp/leg pin passing.
17 days ago
9/7/17
Posts: 682
mideastgrappler - 

if I use the term "old school" as a derogatory term, I refer to the 90's primitive grappling >

1) only passing on the knees, elbows down tight,not very mobile

2) resistant to any new ideas or positions outside of their spectrum of knowledge

3) claiming other techniques and positions "dont work in real fights" 

4) extremely limited repotoire of techniques. Use of dirty techniques that only work on weaker, smaller, opponents with less experience. 

Regardless that it is 2020, many people still adhere to this limited way of thinking, including some experienced, well known black belts

 

When I use the term "old school" as a complimentary term, or in admiration of very solid fundamentals, I consider "old-school" to be about 2008 and earlier. Some very good black belts who started and came up doing BJJ back in the vale tudo/mma era who have kept up to the new evolution of the sport, and are aware of the new trends but don't use them have like this:

1) offensive trapping, and dangerous closed guards that attack posture very well, and a strong willingness to fight to keep their guards closed, and do not accept playing open guard easily unless forced to

2) when forced to play open guard, their emphasis is to keep you at bay to suck you back into closed guard. Open guard is reserved for defense and submission attacks. Also, many of their open guard sweeps consist of takedown like attacks like singles and double legs. 

3) strong half and butterfly guards to hunt the back and sweep/takedown

4) strong ability to attack and retain mount position. this is an area I see is weaker with newer school black belts. Many of the older school black belts have strong mount offense. However, I think newer, modern black belts have a better offense and retention when attacking the back position

5) heavy pressure passing favored over speed passing with footwork. Competant in both, but a preference in stack, over under, and forcing half guard to pass with pressure.

6) competency in judo and wrestling. They dont have to be elite level at them but a high level of competency at them and against others who are also experienced in takedowns.

6) vale tudo/mma knowledge and experience. They may have started their BJJ training and careers with fighting in mind but after years of doing it, their bodies can no longer handle regular training with striking so they adapt and end u doing only sport BJJ in physical practice.

7) strong understanding of techniques, tactics, and how things work. they can adapt and learn things well by just observing. 

 


I love what you said about mount offense. It makes me sad that we see much less of attacking the mount position, cooking people, and submitting them from there.

I'm going to drop possibly a hot take: I think some of this is and unintentional side effect of how vocal Mendes Bros were in their early U.S. seminars and the early days of their training website about how they did not like the mount very much and always emphasized taking the back over taking the mount. It made sense for their weight classes because they were smaller. But I think a lot of practitioners of all sizes took this to heart.

There's an entire generation of people upper belts now that heard since their early days from two of the most best and most popular grapplers ever that the mount should almost always be skipped over in favor of the back or side control.

I still say one of the true benchmarks of a high level grappler is when they have stupid strong mount pressure.
Edited: 17 days ago
9/7/17
Posts: 683
I don't want to split hairs but I really think there is a mid-school era.

To me old school is early everything up until and possibly including the early 00's. Mid-school is the early-mid 00's (think Marcelo Garcia hitting the scene) and from 2003-2009 there was a period of what I like to call "new school basics." New school basics would be positions like arm drags to the back, seatbelt grips, deep half guard, x-guard, spider guard, butterfly guard, darce/brabo chokes, high elbow guillotine, leg-assist anaconda chokes, body triangle, kimura trap, crucifix, leg drag, leg weave, 50/50 guard. So to me those are mid-school aka new school basics.

And then from 2009 to now we get truly see "modern jiu-jitsu" with the outside Delariva and inside Delariva, outside and inside berimbolo, crab ride, the huge heel hook renaissance, float passing, straitjacket system, K-guard, worm guard and all the crazy lapel guard variations, and anything that's going on right now.

I see a lot of people using old-school to talk about anything prior to 2000 then new-school for everything after that (but usually stuff from the past 10 years) and I think there's a lot of 2000's stuff that can get tossed into either bin depending on who you talk to.
17 days ago
7/30/03
Posts: 9272
Calhoon -

If there is a God then old school will be the future of bjj. 

Just to be clear, if anyone even cares, this was an attempt at a joke. In truth I appreciate all grappling. I do hope the self defense aspect of bjj is never lost though. 

17 days ago
7/30/03
Posts: 9273
mata_leaos - I don't want to split hairs but I really think there is a mid-school era.

To me old school is early everything up until and possibly including the early 00's. Mid-school is the early-mid 00's (think Marcelo Garcia hitting the scene) and from 2003-2009 there was a period of what I like to call "new school basics." New school basics would be positions like arm drags to the back, seatbelt grips, deep half guard, x-guard, spider guard, butterfly guard, darce/brabo chokes, high elbow guillotine, leg-assist anaconda chokes, body triangle, kimura trap, crucifix, leg drag, leg weave, 50/50 guard. So to me those are mid-school aka new school basics.

And then from 2009 to now we get truly see "modern jiu-jitsu" with the outside Delariva and inside Delariva, outside and inside berimbolo, crab ride, the huge heel hook renaissance, float passing, straitjacket system, K-guard, worm guard and all the crazy lapel guard variations, and anything that's going on right now.

I see a lot of people using old-school to talk about anything prior to 2000 then new-school for everything after that (but usually stuff from the past 10 years) and I think there's a lot of 2000's stuff that can get tossed into either bin depending on who you talk to.

Another "mid school" grappler would probably be Robson Moura. My gi game still has a lot of stuff taken from him.