David Jacobs' BJJGround What (When) is "Old School" BJJ?

25 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 39439
What is your definition of "Old School" BJJ...?

I see people use this term referring to very different eras.

So what IS old school?
25 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 593

90s or earlier. 

Edited: 24 days ago
2/9/09
Posts: 14358

Its a thing, not a time or place man. Closey guard only. 
 

That was the time when BJJ was taught by men for men. 
 

Imagine Keenan trying to wormguard a prime Rickson? His face would have gotten busted open so fast. 

Edited: 24 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 16591

In my humble opinion, the strictest definition is the fighting of brazilian jiujitsu taught by Helio Gracie to prevail in challenge matches in the 1930s, 40s, and 50s. However, Helio created a mount defense system as late as 2000-2002 that he wasn't using before. So I would say the jiujitsu styl e of Helio Gracie.

24 days ago
3/15/15
Posts: 13821
I would say before 2000. When I first did it in early 1990s the end pupose was a fighting art. That is pretty much gone now in most schools.
24 days ago
2/15/14
Posts: 989

if I use the term "old school" as a derogatory term, I refer to the 90's primitive grappling >

1) only passing on the knees, elbows down tight,not very mobile

2) resistant to any new ideas or positions outside of their spectrum of knowledge

3) claiming other techniques and positions "dont work in real fights" 

4) extremely limited repotoire of techniques. Use of dirty techniques that only work on weaker, smaller, opponents with less experience. 

Regardless that it is 2020, many people still adhere to this limited way of thinking, including some experienced, well known black belts

 

When I use the term "old school" as a complimentary term, or in admiration of very solid fundamentals, I consider "old-school" to be about 2008 and earlier. Some very good black belts who started and came up doing BJJ back in the vale tudo/mma era who have kept up to the new evolution of the sport, and are aware of the new trends but don't use them have like this:

1) offensive trapping, and dangerous closed guards that attack posture very well, and a strong willingness to fight to keep their guards closed, and do not accept playing open guard easily unless forced to

2) when forced to play open guard, their emphasis is to keep you at bay to suck you back into closed guard. Open guard is reserved for defense and submission attacks. Also, many of their open guard sweeps consist of takedown like attacks like singles and double legs. 

3) strong half and butterfly guards to hunt the back and sweep/takedown

4) strong ability to attack and retain mount position. this is an area I see is weaker with newer school black belts. Many of the older school black belts have strong mount offense. However, I think newer, modern black belts have a better offense and retention when attacking the back position

5) heavy pressure passing favored over speed passing with footwork. Competant in both, but a preference in stack, over under, and forcing half guard to pass with pressure.

6) competency in judo and wrestling. They dont have to be elite level at them but a high level of competency at them and against others who are also experienced in takedowns.

6) vale tudo/mma knowledge and experience. They may have started their BJJ training and careers with fighting in mind but after years of doing it, their bodies can no longer handle regular training with striking so they adapt and end u doing only sport BJJ in physical practice.

7) strong understanding of techniques, tactics, and how things work. they can adapt and learn things well by just observing. 

 

24 days ago
8/20/16
Posts: 797

I'd say before Marcelo.

Edited: 24 days ago
9/12/06
Posts: 255

If you're teaching DLR, butterfly, or spider to white belts it's new school.

Old school was clinch, singles, outside trips, standing to break closed guard, forcing half, passing half, recovering half to closed guard for pretty much every cIass (god damn that filter) for two years then you got your blue. 

 

 

 

24 days ago
2/15/14
Posts: 990
vidavaletudo -

If you're teaching DLR, butterfly, or spider to white belts it's new school.

Old school was clinch, singles, outside trips, standing to break closed guard, forcing half, passing half, recovering half to closed guard for pretty much every cIass (god damn that filter) for two years then you got your blue. 

 

 

 

what if all of that is taught to white belts, then what? all of what you said was old school is taught at AOJ, and they aren't really "old school." 

24 days ago
7/6/06
Posts: 493

Whatever was current when the person speaking started training.

24 days ago
4/29/17
Posts: 154
Bend The Knee -

Its a thing, not a time or place man. Closey guard only. 
 

That was the time when BJJ was taught by men for men. 
 

Imagine Keenan trying to wormguard a prime Rickson? His face would have gotten busted open so fast. 

Rickson? Lol!!!!

24 days ago
9/12/06
Posts: 256
mideastgrappler -
vidavaletudo -

If you're teaching DLR, butterfly, or spider to white belts it's new school.

Old school was clinch, singles, outside trips, standing to break closed guard, forcing half, passing half, recovering half to closed guard for pretty much every cIass (god damn that filter) for two years then you got your blue. 

 

 

 

what if all of that is taught to white belts, then what? all of what you said was old school is taught at AOJ, and they aren't really "old school." 

Most schools I've trained at in the last 8 years or so have been teaching RDLR and SLX to no stripe white belts. That said, I've never trained at AOJ or any affiliate of theirs.

 

24 days ago
7/30/03
Posts: 9232

Edited: 24 days ago
7/30/03
Posts: 9233

Danaher = old school

24 days ago
7/30/03
Posts: 9234

Ribeiro jiu-jitsu = old school

24 days ago
7/30/03
Posts: 9235

Demian Maia Jiu-jitsu = old school

24 days ago
7/6/06
Posts: 494
Calhoon -

Demian Maia Jiu-jitsu = old school

Even when I started in 2006, it was still extremely common to hear BJJ BB dismiss half-guard as a sport-only position that didn't work in real fighting. And which 90's BJJ should I watch to see anything like the tripod/float pass he uses on top?

24 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 5430

I am not entirely sure there is a date dividing "Old School" vs "Modern".

I prefer to think of a mentality.

Old School Jiu Jitsu (to me) is that Jiu Jitsu was designed for a fight. Not just the possibility of a fight but the eventuality of having to use your Jiu Jitsu in a fight.

Modern Jiu Jitsu is a Jiu Jitsu that has no illusions about fighting in the traditional sense (although it allows for Sport Jiu Jitsu).

There are pros and cons to each. If you have an interest or belief that Jiu Jitsu has a place in fighting, you are going to be better off with "Old School" and you're likely to get hurt with "Modern".

On the other hand, the Modern Jiu Jitsu has a lower barrier to entry and more people training. And if you think Jiu Jitsu can be beneficial in someone in ways other than fighting, more people training is a good thing.

That's oversimplification of things for sure, but I think it's the nuts and bolts of where those of us who have been around for awhile are struggling to find our middle ground,

24 days ago
7/30/03
Posts: 9236
PointyShinyBurn -
Calhoon -

Demian Maia Jiu-jitsu = old school

Even when I started in 2006, it was still extremely common to hear BJJ BB dismiss half-guard as a sport-only position that didn't work in real fighting. And which 90's BJJ should I watch to see anything like the tripod/float pass he uses on top?

He is old school to the max! 

24 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 913
Moves like grilled chicken guard retention system, the matrix backtake, and ushiro reverse x guard
24 days ago
5/25/06
Posts: 909

Before buttscoots, and berimbola?

24 days ago
7/30/03
Posts: 9240

If there is a God then old school will be the future of bjj. 

24 days ago
5/11/11
Posts: 3031

Kids these days are missing the broken English explanations from salty Brazilians. 

24 days ago
2/8/11
Posts: 805

"Old school" is any technique that can be used in a real fight.

24 days ago
9/9/02
Posts: 13556
joe_mama - 

"Old school" is any technique that can be used in a real fight.


So everything? You can use anything in a real fight

Keenan plays lapel stuff in street clothes lol

His Hoodie string choke game is solid also