David Jacobs' BJJGround Who Trains at Legion with Keenan?

11/14/19 1:50 PM
10/25/05
Posts: 10138

I would find it VERY hard to believe that Keenan, one of the most popular and successful American black belts ever, who has a very large social media presence, in one of the biggest BJJ areas in the county, doesn't have almost 100 students already. 

11/14/19 3:43 PM
3/15/15
Posts: 12451
To be honest, I'd probably punch him in his face within the first hour. Just seems like an entitled douchebag. But I could be wrong.
11/14/19 3:52 PM
9/13/16
Posts: 1521
HotSteppa - To be honest, I'd probably punch him in his face within the first hour. Just seems like an entitled douchebag. But I could be wrong.

keenan seems like a good guy. i'd suggest his podcast to anyone who is into BJJ. it's interesting to hear the viewpoints of high level competitors like him.
11/14/19 6:39 PM
2/28/03
Posts: 47769

You guys understand that beginners have no clue who anyone is in bjj and they make up most gym signups. 
 

getting people to leave their team to join you is hard 

 

moreover, all of us saw the ad saying “20 spots left” 

 

none of us saw a first ad for 100 spots.  
 

if you don’t understand how this marketing works, be ready to have lots of money taken from you 

11/14/19 10:45 PM
10/5/11
Posts: 5430
checkuroil -

You guys understand that beginners have no clue who anyone is in bjj and they make up most gym signups. 
 

getting people to leave their team to join you is hard 

 

moreover, all of us saw the ad saying “20 spots left” 

 

none of us saw a first ad for 100 spots.  
 

if you don’t understand how this marketing works, be ready to have lots of money taken from you 

If you look at the post of the outside of the gym he advertises the first 100 sign ups right there and has done so on his IG as well.

He is literally the poster boy of Jiujitsu in America. Keenan is 100% an outlier in this situation and if you just glance at his IG it is not hard to believe at all. Tbh, no disrespect, but you come off as bitter/jealous as you're taking jabs at people on here and his success.

I don't have to tell you how much bigger jiujitsu is now than it was when Caio opened. 

Edited: 11/14/19 11:53 PM
2/28/03
Posts: 47770
Jake95 -
checkuroil -

You guys understand that beginners have no clue who anyone is in bjj and they make up most gym signups. 
 

getting people to leave their team to join you is hard 

 

moreover, all of us saw the ad saying “20 spots left” 

 

none of us saw a first ad for 100 spots.  
 

if you don’t understand how this marketing works, be ready to have lots of money taken from you 

If you look at the post of the outside of the gym he advertises the first 100 sign ups right there and has done so on his IG as well.

He is literally the poster boy of Jiujitsu in America. Keenan is 100% an outlier in this situation and if you just glance at his IG it is not hard to believe at all. Tbh, no disrespect, but you come off as bitter/jealous as you're taking jabs at people on here and his success.

I don't have to tell you how much bigger jiujitsu is now than it was when Caio opened. 

“No disrespect” and then you disrespect me.  

He doesn’t affect me at all. We are in different markets. However, I have studied marketing under the same people he has. This is textbook false scarcity. The opening tactics are to have a “founders club” with “limited spots”that are “going fast” 

It is extremely difficult to get people’s credit card information.  Everyone says “I’ll be there” but when it’s time to pay they vanish.  
 

my friend had 110 sign ups before opening.  However, he was the only BJJ in town. keenan is competing against thirty or so different schools in his area. All the “I will move across the country” guys take forever to show up.  Even keenan waited like a year to go to Lloyd’s after contacting him.  People leaving their gyms to join a new one are also a rarity. They are leaving all their friends and people who mean a lot to them behind.  If keenan opened next to you would you leave your team? 
 

I guess we can’t argue here without name calling and talking shit 

11/15/19 9:09 AM
12/1/00
Posts: 17139
I wish Keenan and all school owners the best- as I've been one for the past 7 years.

I tend to agree with CUO- unless students are really unhappy and disenfranchised with their school, they are very unlikely to switch to another school- no matter the name of the person.

Because of that, most new sign ups will be beginners- people who have no idea who Keenan is.

However, maybe San Diego is an outlier- because there are so many BJJ schools, perhaps there are just that many unhappy students there that would leave for Keenan's.
11/15/19 2:47 PM
8/28/10
Posts: 12782

My friend brought in some Brazilians from Brazil to teach at a school he was opening up and he had about 20 guys when they opened up. Most of them had jumped ship from their current gyms to train with a world champ.

I knew about 3 of the guys from other various gyms in the area. The 3 I knew seemed to hop around a lot and had much better skill than their belts showed, as no one would promote them past purple and brown due to bouncing around a lot.

One of them kept getting kicked out of gyms for his aggressive behavior and I had had an altercation with him about 4 years prior that ended up with both of us basically slugging it out on the mats until one of the black belts pulled us apart. Dude got kicked out a month later for holding a heel hook a little too long on a teenager and this guy was a yoked out late 20yo. We are on good terms now, but he's also no longer at that gym and is a chronic gym hopper with obvious anger and mental issues. This dude posted recently that he's headed to Keenan's gym to start over and posted pics of him in San Diego lol

 

Maybe Keenan got all the flaky crazy gymless gym hoppers

11/15/19 3:10 PM
2/28/03
Posts: 47771
Sometimes my wife lets me porrada -

My friend brought in some Brazilians from Brazil to teach at a school he was opening up and he had about 20 guys when they opened up. Most of them had jumped ship from their current gyms to train with a world champ.

I knew about 3 of the guys from other various gyms in the area. The 3 I knew seemed to hop around a lot and had much better skill than their belts showed, as no one would promote them past purple and brown due to bouncing around a lot.

One of them kept getting kicked out of gyms for his aggressive behavior and I had had an altercation with him about 4 years prior that ended up with both of us basically slugging it out on the mats until one of the black belts pulled us apart. Dude got kicked out a month later for holding a heel hook a little too long on a teenager and this guy was a yoked out late 20yo. We are on good terms now, but he's also no longer at that gym and is a chronic gym hopper with obvious anger and mental issues. This dude posted recently that he's headed to Keenan's gym to start over and posted pics of him in San Diego lol

 

Maybe Keenan got all the flaky crazy gymless gym hoppers

This is definitely something that happens 

11/15/19 3:19 PM
2/19/18
Posts: 73
checkuroil - 
Jake95 -
checkuroil -

You guys understand that beginners have no clue who anyone is in bjj and they make up most gym signups. 
 

getting people to leave their team to join you is hard 

 

moreover, all of us saw the ad saying “20 spots left” 

 

none of us saw a first ad for 100 spots.  
 

if you don’t understand how this marketing works, be ready to have lots of money taken from you 

If you look at the post of the outside of the gym he advertises the first 100 sign ups right there and has done so on his IG as well.

He is literally the poster boy of Jiujitsu in America. Keenan is 100% an outlier in this situation and if you just glance at his IG it is not hard to believe at all. Tbh, no disrespect, but you come off as bitter/jealous as you're taking jabs at people on here and his success.

I don't have to tell you how much bigger jiujitsu is now than it was when Caio opened. 

“No disrespect” and then you disrespect me.  

He doesn’t affect me at all. We are in different markets. However, I have studied marketing under the same people he has. This is textbook false scarcity. The opening tactics are to have a “founders club” with “limited spots”that are “going fast” 

It is extremely difficult to get people’s credit card information.  Everyone says “I’ll be there” but when it’s time to pay they vanish.  
 

my friend had 110 sign ups before opening.  However, he was the only BJJ in town. keenan is competing against thirty or so different schools in his area. All the “I will move across the country” guys take forever to show up.  Even keenan waited like a year to go to Lloyd’s after contacting him.  People leaving their gyms to join a new one are also a rarity. They are leaving all their friends and people who mean a lot to them behind.  If keenan opened next to you would you leave your team? 
 

I guess we can’t argue here without name calling and talking shit 


Creating a limited opening offer so you can be profitable ASAP seems very legit to me.

He said the 100 spots are full, no more of those rates available. He'll probably be close to break even before he officially opens, probably isn't even paying rent yet.

False scarcity? I guess I don't see it unless you think he's still selling at intro rates. Why would he though?

A recent Instagram post says "Legion still isn't open but the first 100 members are getting it in. We closed applications and will be open for new members in late November."

This is what your marketing study has taught you about false scarcity? Telling people you're sold out and they have to wait a couple weeks?
Not telling them to act now because there's only 2 spots left or something?
11/15/19 6:36 PM
10/25/05
Posts: 10143
bjjlurker -
checkuroil - 
Jake95 -
checkuroil -

You guys understand that beginners have no clue who anyone is in bjj and they make up most gym signups. 
 

getting people to leave their team to join you is hard 

 

moreover, all of us saw the ad saying “20 spots left” 

 

none of us saw a first ad for 100 spots.  
 

if you don’t understand how this marketing works, be ready to have lots of money taken from you 

If you look at the post of the outside of the gym he advertises the first 100 sign ups right there and has done so on his IG as well.

He is literally the poster boy of Jiujitsu in America. Keenan is 100% an outlier in this situation and if you just glance at his IG it is not hard to believe at all. Tbh, no disrespect, but you come off as bitter/jealous as you're taking jabs at people on here and his success.

I don't have to tell you how much bigger jiujitsu is now than it was when Caio opened. 

“No disrespect” and then you disrespect me.  

He doesn’t affect me at all. We are in different markets. However, I have studied marketing under the same people he has. This is textbook false scarcity. The opening tactics are to have a “founders club” with “limited spots”that are “going fast” 

It is extremely difficult to get people’s credit card information.  Everyone says “I’ll be there” but when it’s time to pay they vanish.  
 

my friend had 110 sign ups before opening.  However, he was the only BJJ in town. keenan is competing against thirty or so different schools in his area. All the “I will move across the country” guys take forever to show up.  Even keenan waited like a year to go to Lloyd’s after contacting him.  People leaving their gyms to join a new one are also a rarity. They are leaving all their friends and people who mean a lot to them behind.  If keenan opened next to you would you leave your team? 
 

I guess we can’t argue here without name calling and talking shit 


Creating a limited opening offer so you can be profitable ASAP seems very legit to me.

He said the 100 spots are full, no more of those rates available. He'll probably be close to break even before he officially opens, probably isn't even paying rent yet.

False scarcity? I guess I don't see it unless you think he's still selling at intro rates. Why would he though?

A recent Instagram post says "Legion still isn't open but the first 100 members are getting it in. We closed applications and will be open for new members in late November."

This is what your marketing study has taught you about false scarcity? Telling people you're sold out and they have to wait a couple weeks?
Not telling them to act now because there's only 2 spots left or something?

Hes creating demand, wether it's true or not. I don't know why CUO seems to salty. Also, Keenan is immensely more popular than Caio Terra ever was. 

11/15/19 9:15 PM
2/28/03
Posts: 47772

I’m salty? I’m pointing out a common lloyd irvin selling tactic. That makes me salty? Ok
 

I have had it with this place. I try to discuss things and get personal attacks. Instead of saying “ I know five guys who signed up there” or “i signed up there and know it’s true”, I hear “you’re bitter and salty”
 

I used to post techniques here until I had to defend techniques I learned directly from world champions. So I stopped.  
 

Now I post opinions on a common sales tactics and get insulted. 
 

If someone has a direct question, then I’ll answer it.  Otherwise, I’m done with posting. 

11/15/19 11:37 PM
10/5/11
Posts: 5431

"if you don’t understand how this marketing works, be ready to have lots of money taken from you"

You literally insulted the intelligence of those of us who believe Keenan, implying we're oafs and will be taken advantage of. You're a blackbelt and learned from world champions, cool no one ever said anything about that. Just odd to take this stance and insult us and then play victim.

11/15/19 11:39 PM
10/5/11
Posts: 5432

In all sincereness I hope you don't stop posting as you're a valuable member here and have been here since day 0

11/16/19 12:11 AM
5/30/03
Posts: 41743
Jake95 -

"if you don’t understand how this marketing works, be ready to have lots of money taken from you"

You literally insulted the intelligence of those of us who believe Keenan, implying we're oafs and will be taken advantage of. You're a blackbelt and learned from world champions, cool no one ever said anything about that. Just odd to take this stance and insult us and then play victim.

He’s right. When someone goes against the grain in here, everyone jumps on the bandwagon to bash them. The mantra in here is Brazilians are evil, school owners are only out for money, students are victims. 
 

Keenan’s marketing tactics are very old school. It’s directly from TLI. Act now or you will forever lose your chance! He is an amazing competitor and athlete. There is no way you can take that from him. He may be a super cool guy too, someone you would allow to date your sister or take care of your dogs. Who knows. But business is business. 
 

His academy looks to be 6K sqft, retail in SD. It is likely 1.50 a sqft. Add in at least 1.25 for nnn costs and you are at $3-sqft. That means that rent alone is around $20k. You are looking at another $10-15k in operating costs so around the 30s on a monthly to break even. At $150 a student he needs 200 to break even. 
 

I have no idea how many students he has but ATOS hq is 225 for unlimited. For sure, Keenan can’t push 200 a membership, based on the location alone. Average Hh income there is 100k. That’s not enough to push 200 so it’s likely he is doing 150-175 for unlimited. 
 

it’s unlikely that 200 people jumped ship from their schools to join. Sure there will be a number of new students, but it’s not going to be a majority. It’s unlikely that you have a significant number of people interested in BJJ but hadn’t signed up to an academy and suddenly jumped at the opportunity to start because Keenan opened one up. 

11/16/19 12:14 AM
5/30/03
Posts: 41744

Btw I hope that he is successful so that he can bring something new to the community. We need to keep growing the market and he’s definitely the guy to do it. I’m more interested in seeing if he holds true to his word. 

11/16/19 12:31 AM
4/26/13
Posts: 4418
checkuroil -

I’m salty? I’m pointing out a common lloyd irvin selling tactic. That makes me salty? Ok
 

I have had it with this place. I try to discuss things and get personal attacks. Instead of saying “ I know five guys who signed up there” or “i signed up there and know it’s true”, I hear “you’re bitter and salty”
 

I used to post techniques here until I had to defend techniques I learned directly from world champions. So I stopped.  
 

Now I post opinions on a common sales tactics and get insulted. 
 

If someone has a direct question, then I’ll answer it.  Otherwise, I’m done with posting. 

I hope you change your mind.  CUO and Shen are the only two good posters on here.  

29 days ago
2/19/18
Posts: 74
I need to take Lloyd's course. He really says to create false scarcity by saying "we sold out of our deal, come back in a couple weeks."?

I'm surprised that works. I've been fooled I guess by Lloyd and Keenan, Dang!
29 days ago
2/19/18
Posts: 75
The Maestro - 
Jake95 -

"if you don’t understand how this marketing works, be ready to have lots of money taken from you"

You literally insulted the intelligence of those of us who believe Keenan, implying we're oafs and will be taken advantage of. You're a blackbelt and learned from world champions, cool no one ever said anything about that. Just odd to take this stance and insult us and then play victim.

He’s right. When someone goes against the grain in here, everyone jumps on the bandwagon to bash them. The mantra in here is Brazilians are evil, school owners are only out for money, students are victims. 
 

Keenan’s marketing tactics are very old school. It’s directly from TLI. Act now or you will forever lose your chance! He is an amazing competitor and athlete. There is no way you can take that from him. He may be a super cool guy too, someone you would allow to date your sister or take care of your dogs. Who knows. But business is business. 
 

His academy looks to be 6K sqft, retail in SD. It is likely 1.50 a sqft. Add in at least 1.25 for nnn costs and you are at $3-sqft. That means that rent alone is around $20k. You are looking at another $10-15k in operating costs so around the 30s on a monthly to break even. At $150 a student he needs 200 to break even. 
 

I have no idea how many students he has but ATOS hq is 225 for unlimited. For sure, Keenan can’t push 200 a membership, based on the location alone. Average Hh income there is 100k. That’s not enough to push 200 so it’s likely he is doing 150-175 for unlimited. 
 

it’s unlikely that 200 people jumped ship from their schools to join. Sure there will be a number of new students, but it’s not going to be a majority. It’s unlikely that you have a significant number of people interested in BJJ but hadn’t signed up to an academy and suddenly jumped at the opportunity to start because Keenan opened one up. 


It sounds like he is using some of this space for filming for Keenan online and maybe more. He said it's going to multi-use.

At some point I'm sure he'll want the school to cover rent but it doesn't sound like it needs to any time too soon. He sounds like he's in a good spot. I bet he does very very well.
29 days ago
12/24/10
Posts: 4133

Can tell you crom hosting seminars with all the top talent out there. Keenan sold out faster than anyone else. He has a presence with the public. I can easily see a 100 students

29 days ago
5/30/03
Posts: 41745
bjjlurker -
The Maestro - 
Jake95 -

"if you don’t understand how this marketing works, be ready to have lots of money taken from you"

You literally insulted the intelligence of those of us who believe Keenan, implying we're oafs and will be taken advantage of. You're a blackbelt and learned from world champions, cool no one ever said anything about that. Just odd to take this stance and insult us and then play victim.

He’s right. When someone goes against the grain in here, everyone jumps on the bandwagon to bash them. The mantra in here is Brazilians are evil, school owners are only out for money, students are victims. 
 

Keenan’s marketing tactics are very old school. It’s directly from TLI. Act now or you will forever lose your chance! He is an amazing competitor and athlete. There is no way you can take that from him. He may be a super cool guy too, someone you would allow to date your sister or take care of your dogs. Who knows. But business is business. 
 

His academy looks to be 6K sqft, retail in SD. It is likely 1.50 a sqft. Add in at least 1.25 for nnn costs and you are at $3-sqft. That means that rent alone is around $20k. You are looking at another $10-15k in operating costs so around the 30s on a monthly to break even. At $150 a student he needs 200 to break even. 
 

I have no idea how many students he has but ATOS hq is 225 for unlimited. For sure, Keenan can’t push 200 a membership, based on the location alone. Average Hh income there is 100k. That’s not enough to push 200 so it’s likely he is doing 150-175 for unlimited. 
 

it’s unlikely that 200 people jumped ship from their schools to join. Sure there will be a number of new students, but it’s not going to be a majority. It’s unlikely that you have a significant number of people interested in BJJ but hadn’t signed up to an academy and suddenly jumped at the opportunity to start because Keenan opened one up. 


It sounds like he is using some of this space for filming for Keenan online and maybe more. He said it's going to multi-use.

At some point I'm sure he'll want the school to cover rent but it doesn't sound like it needs to any time too soon. He sounds like he's in a good spot. I bet he does very very well.

His online school is probably killing it. I was just breaking down some math for the gym. 

29 days ago
10/25/05
Posts: 10145
checkuroil - 

I’m salty? I’m pointing out a common lloyd irvin selling tactic. That makes me salty? Ok
 

I have had it with this place. I try to discuss things and get personal attacks. Instead of saying “ I know five guys who signed up there” or “i signed up there and know it’s true”, I hear “you’re bitter and salty”
 

I used to post techniques here until I had to defend techniques I learned directly from world champions. So I stopped.  
 

Now I post opinions on a common sales tactics and get insulted. 
 

If someone has a direct question, then I’ll answer it.  Otherwise, I’m done with posting. 


I didn't insult you, you need to chill out for christ's sake. I'm not even saying false scarcity isn't a tactic he's using. What I am saying is I wouldn't be surprised at all if he had 100 students sign up already. Relax man, everything is going to be ok
24 days ago
2/19/18
Posts: 77
Animal Mother -
checkuroil - 

I’m salty? I’m pointing out a common lloyd irvin selling tactic. That makes me salty? Ok
 

I have had it with this place. I try to discuss things and get personal attacks. Instead of saying “ I know five guys who signed up there” or “i signed up there and know it’s true”, I hear “you’re bitter and salty”
 

I used to post techniques here until I had to defend techniques I learned directly from world champions. So I stopped.  
 

Now I post opinions on a common sales tactics and get insulted. 
 

If someone has a direct question, then I’ll answer it.  Otherwise, I’m done with posting. 


I didn't insult you, you need to chill out for christ's sake. I'm not even saying false scarcity isn't a tactic he's using. What I am saying is I wouldn't be surprised at all if he had 100 students sign up already. Relax man, everything is going to be ok

Someone contact and see if they can still get the intro deal that Keenan was offering.

 

This should answer if he really has 100 students and/or if he was using false scarcity.

 

I say the deal is closed, he has 100 students

24 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 943

Please watch this video to understand all the typical sales tactics employed

 

https://youtu.be/C2mpW8cnewA

24 days ago
6/30/07
Posts: 57158