David Jacobs' BJJGround Who are the most knowledgeable leglock experts?

22 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 14163
I'd have to think the obvious are:

John Danaher (plus his death squad/former death squad members including Eddie Cummings, Gary Tonon, Gordon Ryan, Nicky Ryan)

Masakazu Imanari

But who are the others? Especially those who don't have overlapping material with the names mentioned above?
22 days ago
5/11/08
Posts: 2026

Dean Lister, Ryan Hall, Davi Ramos

22 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 14166
How about Palhares or Craig Jones?
22 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 14167
Where are all the sambo guys? Have the bjj guys surpassed the sambo guys worldwide?
22 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 14168
How functional is Erik Paulson? I remember killer leglocks volumes 1 through 3. How many of those work or are put together in a system?
22 days ago
11/10/05
Posts: 7431

I think that Reilly Bodycomb is knowledgable, presents the information well and deserves a mention

22 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 8438

Ken Shamrock :)

22 days ago
1/14/08
Posts: 5509
Dean Lister, Reilly Bodycomb, and Lachlan Giles, Vlad Koulikov... in addition to the already mentioned experts.



Chango
22 days ago
5/13/05
Posts: 1824

Wow...not even a single mention of the Prince of Leglocks?!! :)

22 days ago
3/7/14
Posts: 409

pizzajitsu

22 days ago
2/14/19
Posts: 256
Wasn't Scott Sonnon talking about the saddle in the US before anyone else?
22 days ago
12/26/02
Posts: 11919

Sonnon gave it a new name but it wasn't a new position. 

Roy Harris

21 days ago
5/7/06
Posts: 2339

Just did a training camp with Jon Calestine & Aaron Milam.

Insane depth of knowledge. 

21 days ago
3/18/02
Posts: 745
FatBuddha - How functional is Erik Paulson? I remember killer leglocks volumes 1 through 3. How many of those work or are put together in a system?

Erik's stuff is good. My first BJJ instructor in the late 90s was a student of his. I was dominating people with leg locks back then so much that as a smaller guy I did not work on passing guard much. : )  Later, I decided to stop doing so many leg locks and focus more on tradidtional BJJ. The best thing I learned was flowing between leg lock positions and attacks and that there are many variations of positions and grips. I did have his Killer Leglocks vol 1 on VHS and I used to watch it alot back then.

 

These days the leg lock game has advanced alot and there are more systems and variations available. For example the 411 heel hook system is very powerful. 

21 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 14192
TBoy2 - 
FatBuddha - How functional is Erik Paulson? I remember killer leglocks volumes 1 through 3. How many of those work or are put together in a system?

Erik's stuff is good. My first BJJ instructor in the late 90s was a student of his. I was dominating people with leg locks back then so much that as a smaller guy I did not work on passing guard much. : )  Later, I decided to stop doing so many leg locks and focus more on tradidtional BJJ. The best thing I learned was flowing between leg lock positions and attacks and that there are many variations of positions and grips. I did have his Killer Leglocks vol 1 on VHS and I used to watch it alot back then.

 

These days the leg lock game has advanced alot and there are more systems and variations available. For example the 411 heel hook system is very powerful. 


Nice
Edited: 20 days ago
9/26/07
Posts: 708

 

20 days ago
9/26/07
Posts: 709

As mentioned above. Erik Paulson is a wealth of information on leglocks. Very different style and methodology to the Danaher style though. Firstly because dds was basically designed and modified to win the ebi / Nogi Grappling comps, Erik’s style is all about mma. Also Erik puts a lot of emphasis on the history and stories behind each technique, what was used by who in which fight. Whereas Danaher focuses on the scientific principles behind the movements. 

20 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 14195
Denis Kelly - 

As mentioned above. Erik Paulson is a wealth of information on leglocks. Very different style and methodology to the Danaher style though. Firstly because dds was basically designed and modified to win the ebi / Nogi Grappling comps, Erik’s style is all about mma. Also Erik puts a lot of emphasis on the history and stories behind each technique, what was used by who in which fight. Whereas Danaher focuses on the scientific principles behind the movements. 


I haven't watched Erik's videos in a long time - does he give the stories/histories there or are you speaking more from seminars/classes with him? As far as technique goes how do they compare? Are you saying that Danaher doesn't account for striking (getting punched or kicked by the other leg) in his leg lock progressions?
20 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 3046
Besides the ones mentioned I have to go with Gokor, Gene Lebell, Oleg Taktarov and Igor Yakmov.
19 days ago
10/25/05
Posts: 10001
FatBuddha - Where are all the sambo guys? Have the bjj guys surpassed the sambo guys worldwide?

At this point, Sambo guys don't hold a candlestick to the elite BJJ leg lockers. That may be a slight exaggeration, but you know what I mean. 

19 days ago
10/25/05
Posts: 10002
Denis Kelly -

As mentioned above. Erik Paulson is a wealth of information on leglocks. Very different style and methodology to the Danaher style though. Firstly because dds was basically designed and modified to win the ebi / Nogi Grappling comps, Erik’s style is all about mma. Also Erik puts a lot of emphasis on the history and stories behind each technique, what was used by who in which fight. Whereas Danaher focuses on the scientific principles behind the movements. 

Johns style was not designed or modified to win EBI. He started showing it more often when he realized most ADCC submissions were leg locks. Erik's system is no better suited for MMA than John's. 

15 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 14280
So basically if I know everything Danaher and Imanari have to teach on leglocks, I'm good?
9 days ago
3/18/02
Posts: 746
FatBuddha - So basically if I know everything Danaher and Imanari have to teach on leglocks, I'm good?

Yes. If you compare the modern game with the old Erik Paulson Killer leg lock videos. When Erik's videos came out in the 90s they were the best leg lock videos I had seen and they are still good. Back in the 90s not many people knew about leg locks and there were not as many people training. Plus there was no youtube and not many instructional videos. 

Fast forward to today and more people understand leg locks and how to escape, defend, prevent, etc... If you want to use leg locks on the averge person for self defense then any of the videos mentioned are good. But, if you want to use it for mma or grappling with experienced people than I would recommend some of the modern stuff. Or better yet both. 

I think the biggest difference between the old way of teaching and today is that now a days the focus is on concepts, control, and systems of attack. I have not seen Danaher's leg lock video but I am sure it is good becaue I have seen clips of his leg attacks and have studied DDS videos. Plus I have some of his other stuff. They use leg entaglement as a position and their Dig concept of getting the heel hook has been proven in competition. I'll probably get the Danaher's leg lock video when it gets cheaper.

I consider myself a leg lock specialist and have studied many instructionals and videos. My main leg attack is the straight ankle lock and my main finish is using the small circle wrist extension on the achilles. I learned this back in the 80s. But, I also use some of other finishes. A good place to start is with Roli Delgado's Legal Leg Locks. He finishes his ankle lock similar to how I do and shows different leg attacks. Imanari also has some good stuff on youtube.

As far as what to study it also depends on what your goal is? Is it for MMA, self defense, or BJJ?

Lastly, I just wanted to say I still use many of Erik Pauson's leg attacks. The main difference is that I normally use it with modern control positions and from different entries. Although I still use some of the old school stuff. : )

Edited: 8 days ago
4/25/11
Posts: 2749
Animal Mother -
FatBuddha - Where are all the sambo guys? Have the bjj guys surpassed the sambo guys worldwide?

At this point, Sambo guys don't hold a candlestick to the elite BJJ leg lockers. That may be a slight exaggeration, but you know what I mean. 

I think it is time to dispell this myth about most sport sambo players being good at leg locks.....

Sambo matches are most commonly decided by points from throws and pins. The percentage of sambo players that are very good at leg locks is much smaller in comparison to those that are good at throwing. This is even more true nowadays because they reduced the amount of point differential needed for a tech fall to only 8.

The American style of Sambo has historically been a bit more leg lock heavy (ex. Reily Bodycomb) and I think this is where the misconception comes from. Guys that are better at throwing are gettong involved in Sambo in America now, so this is changing.

Twisting leg locks are illegal in Sambo and it's been that way forever, so no need to work on toe holds or heel hooks. You also get limited time on the ground like judo and the match is restarted if you stand up while caught in a submission too, so that makes overall approach way different.....

With that being said though, there are some guys that are VERY good at leg locks in international sambo. However, they typically excel at straight ankle locks, transitioning immediately from standing position/throwing to a leg lock or leg locks from top turtle position. These are all areas that most jiu jitsu players don't focus on.

FRAT VERSION:

Contrary to popular belief most sambists don't specialize in leg locks. Those that do are good at straight ankle locks, attacking the legs from top turtle and transitioning immediately from standing/throwing to a leg lock.

Jiu jitsu guys are better at everything else.

9 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 14288
TBoy2 - 
FatBuddha - So basically if I know everything Danaher and Imanari have to teach on leglocks, I'm good?

Yes. If you compare the modern game with the old Erik Paulson Killer leg lock videos. When Erik's videos came out in the 90s they were the best leg lock videos I had seen and they are still good. Back in the 90s not many people knew about leg locks and there were not as many people training. Plus there was no youtube and not many instructional videos. 

Fast forward to today and more people understand leg locks and how to escape, defend, prevent, etc... If you want to use leg locks on the averge person for self defense then any of the videos mentioned are good. But, if you want to use it for mma or grappling with experienced people than I would recommend some of the modern stuff. Or better yet both. 

I think the biggest difference between the old way of teaching and today is that now a days the focus is on concepts, control, and systems of attack. I have not seen Danaher's leg lock video but I am sure it is good becaue I have seen clips of his leg attacks and have studied DDS videos. Plus I have some of his other stuff. They use leg entaglement as a position and their Dig concept of getting the heel hook has been proven in competition. I'll probably get the Danaher's leg lock video when it gets cheaper.

I consider myself a leg lock specialist and have studied many instructionals and videos. My main leg attack is the straight ankle lock and my main finish is using the small circle wrist extension on the achilles. I learned this back in the 80s. But, I also use some of other finishes. A good place to start is with Roli Delgado's Legal Leg Locks. He finishes his ankle lock similar to how I do and shows different leg attacks. Imanari also has some good stuff on youtube.

As far as what to study it also depends on what your goal is? Is it for MMA, self defense, or BJJ?

Lastly, I just wanted to say I still use many of Erik Pauson's leg attacks. The main difference is that I normally use it with modern control positions and from different entries. Although I still use some of the old school stuff. : )


Good info, thanks!