David Jacobs' BJJGround drawing the line at worm guard?

20 days ago
9/13/16
Posts: 1334
i'm a sport BJJ guy and like to use the gi when i train. i like collar choking people, grabbing sleeves and pant grips, and playing guards like spider and lasso.

but for some reason i just can't get into worm guard. like i think it's complete nonsense and i just refuse to play it. i'm okay with playing an inverted spider guard but for some reason worm guard is TOO sporty for me. is anybody else like this?
20 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 8478

Why? You use the lapels for other stuff. Why ignore 50% of the lapel?

20 days ago
9/16/08
Posts: 738
I feel the same. With other gi grips there's a kind of lesson to be learned in protecting that area. Collar = defend the lever of the spine, sleeve = defend the lever of the forearm. Lapel work kind of strays to far from that reality and into a line of thinking that doesn't have a nogi/self defense/mma analogue
20 days ago
9/10/13
Posts: 1514

I don’t do lapels. Just don’t care to learn them. My teacher loves lapel wrap chokes so I have a lot of exposure to them, but it’s just not for me. Never even saw someone play a lapel guard in person. 

20 days ago
2/28/03
Posts: 47667

I don’t see it becoming a huge thing so I’m not that concerned but I see your point 

20 days ago
5/8/11
Posts: 5212

it isn't worse than donkey guard...but...i would only mess with it as a form of humliation...LOOK WHAT YOU LET ME DO!!! 

20 days ago
4/27/18
Posts: 1502

I like what Firas says.

Do bjj you can do in the street, mma, no gi and gi.

I dont have enough training time to worry about anything else.

Edited: 20 days ago
3/20/14
Posts: 900

I’m old man JJ but I don’t mind being around it and anything else faddish; it adds another puzzle to solve. I’m far more interested in understanding the bio-mechanics behind such fringe work and countering it rather than actually adding the latest techniques to my operational base.

 

 

19 days ago
2/27/08
Posts: 1640
My most egregious use of the gi is trapping the arm with the lapel when in north-south kimura position. And that's only when I need a break.
19 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 524
I look at gi like electric guitar and nogi like acoustic. The electric guitar has a lot of extra tricks you can use to create sounds. Pinch harmonics, whammy bar, distortion, etc. Lapels/\grips are the extra "sounds" you can create, or more attacks or methods of control. Used minimally they are great. When it crosses a certain line, it starts moving away from good songwriting or in this case away, practicality in a fight.

I kind of look at it like that. For the people who see bjj as a fight system, they just won't be interested in worm guard. For ppl who do not care at all about practicality, they'll be attracted to things like worm guard.

My theory is that we are and have been living in the "80's of bjj". That's why I am a huge fan of any bjj star that turns their focus to mma. This is the kind of stuff that steers the ship back in that direction.
19 days ago
9/13/16
Posts: 1345
checkuroil - 

I don’t see it becoming a huge thing so I’m not that concerned but I see your point 


i think it'll be bigger than you think. i'm seeing it more and more during randori.

even though i don't like worm guard i must say that it's effective. once your opponent gets that grip it's a pain in the ass to break. i've seen white belts and blue belts frustrate higher guys with that stuff.

19 days ago
3/15/15
Posts: 12094
The interwebs has simply magnified the collection of techniques and strategies and has created pressure for people to try and learn anything (technique collecting-on-steroids) as well as the pressure for instructors who then feel the need to teach stuff they are not to familiar with or simply do not use themselves.
There is nothing wrong with learning new stuff, personally, I like the creativity, but most simply do not have the time to learn all this highly specialized stuff.

Most people (probably 80% - the ones that keep the lights on) who train BJJ do not regularly compete and have little use for every new BJJ fad as the takeaway from core concepts and techniques to learn. Of course, one should spend a lot of time on preventative strategies, and counters for techniques like worm guard.

Who you are under is now far less important because in a lot of cases you are simply not learning their flavor of stuff. I know a club that flip flopped through different associations, yet teaches the same material it always did. Gone is the want to train with particular people to learn their methods.
IOW, most have no practical need, either in sport, application, or real life to learn highly specialized strategies and techniques.
If you are not a full time BJJer with no job, or twenty something with a lot of time, then this stuff is not important. That's my take.
19 days ago
12/26/02
Posts: 11934
Strangleu - 

I like what Firas says.

Do bjj you can do in the street, mma, no gi and gi.

I dont have enough training time to worry about anything else.


That's me. Plus old man filter as well. 

19 days ago
1/29/08
Posts: 2057

Love it. Lapels have always been a big part of my game. Worm guard is just another tool in the chest.

19 days ago
5/11/08
Posts: 2064

Kron was an early adopter of using the lapel. He uses it to sweep Buchecha in the opening scramble of their match back in 2012. 

 

19 days ago
3/6/07
Posts: 5376
Fast Pitch -

Why? You use the lapels for other stuff. Why ignore 50% of the lapel?

That part of the lapel is used all the time. 

Its simply the way it is being used that is so ridiculous. 

100% of the lapel is used in bjj. 

Edited: 18 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 34966

Honestly, if you don't do Worm Guard, you don't do jiu jitsu. It's that important.

It's so important that I created a line of Jitz-inspired urban clothing called "L@pelz". Basically, the latest urban fashions, with long lapels sewn into them. 

If shit goes sideways,  you better believe I'm using some Worm Guard.

Like I say: I dont "play" Worm Guard, but I use it all the time. 'Cause  when I use worm guard.. I ain't playing.

 

 

 

18 days ago
2/9/09
Posts: 9417
Strangleu -

I like what Firas says.

Do bjj you can do in the street, mma, no gi and gi.

I dont have enough training time to worry about anything else.

I like this, Maia is a pretty good example of this

18 days ago
9/29/13
Posts: 10224

I would imagine that a t shirt can be used like a lapel from bottom half guard in a street fight.  The control from that might be better than you would think 

17 days ago
2/28/03
Posts: 47674
shen -

Honestly, if you don't do Worm Guard, you don't do jiu jitsu. It's that important.

It's so important that I created a line of Jitz-inspired urban clothing called "L@pelz". Basically, the latest urban fashions, with long lapels sewn into them. 

If shit goes sideways,  you better believe I'm using some Worm Guard.

Like I say: I dont "play" Worm Guard, but I use it all the time. 'Cause  when I use worm guard.. I ain't playing.

 

 

 

Can I PayPal you 

17 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 18590
pbody - 

Kron was an early adopter of using the lapel. He uses it to sweep Buchecha in the opening scramble of their match back in 2012. 

 


I got hurt just watching that, bad ass.  And Buchecha fought most of that with one hand after snapping his fingers back in.

17 days ago
2/8/11
Posts: 700
Red Stuff - My most egregious use of the gi is trapping the arm with the lapel when in north-south kimura position. And that's only when I need a break.

This is the line for me for lapel usage. Not a fan of trapping arms, or getting exotic chokes with the lapel. Worm guard is of course way over the line for me. 

Edited: 17 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 34981
checkuroil - 
shen -

Honestly, if you don't do Worm Guard, you don't do jiu jitsu. It's that important.

It's so important that I created a line of Jitz-inspired urban clothing called "L@pelz". Basically, the latest urban fashions, with long lapels sewn into them. 

If shit goes sideways,  you better believe I'm using some Worm Guard.

Like I say: I dont "play" Worm Guard, but I use it all the time. 'Cause  when I use worm guard.. I ain't playing.

 

 

 

Can I PayPal you 

 

Sorry, but sources tell me PayPal is not gonna be around much longer.

So, I only accept my own cryptocurrency, Shencoin.

 

17 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 8482
jkd4200 -
Fast Pitch -

Why? You use the lapels for other stuff. Why ignore 50% of the lapel?

That part of the lapel is used all the time. 

Its simply the way it is being used that is so ridiculous. 

100% of the lapel is used in bjj. 

OK Mr. No Fun