David Jacobs' BJJGround should white belts roll with white belts?

6/20/19 8:22 AM
12/26/02
Posts: 11881

Why or why not?

6/20/19 10:19 AM
2/28/03
Posts: 47568

Day 1 vs Day 1.  No it’s pointless

8 month white belt vs day one, ok 

6/20/19 10:40 AM
10/28/08
Posts: 1935

Agree with Brent.  

 

3 stripe white should be able to roll with other white belts.

 

Newer white belts need to be rolling with more experienced players or doing very specific positional training.

Edited: 6/20/19 12:35 PM
12/21/04
Posts: 1927
Absolutely. White belt vs. White belt is when you start to see how effective YOUR jiu-jitsu can be. You generally don't get that same effect rolling with an upper rank who will either try and dominate you or let you try things, maybe even win. With that said, it is the instructors responsibility to make sure there are no obvious safety concerns (e.g., significant strength or size difference) when pairing two beginners.
6/20/19 1:23 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 505

I've never even heard of it being an option for a white belt not to roll with another white belt...

6/20/19 7:39 PM
1/13/06
Posts: 7382
checkuroil - 

Day 1 vs Day 1.  No it’s pointless

8 month white belt vs day one, ok 


agreed. keeps everyone safe

6/20/19 8:43 PM
12/26/02
Posts: 11884
liuk3 - 

I've never even heard of it being an option for a white belt not to roll with another white belt...


lurker alert!

But should they?

6/20/19 11:09 PM
2/14/19
Posts: 180
I love watching me some white belt vs white belt action at local tournaments. The lack of knowledge combined with the desire to impress their teammates really does wonders. Watching two white belts grab each other’s sleeves trying to savagely battle rope each other’s arms off was one of my favorite moments as a tournament spectator.
6/21/19 10:15 AM
12/16/11
Posts: 71
No. They don't know enough to do anything productive and there's a good chance they will hurt each other or themselves. If it can't be avoided due to class size or some other factor, it should be limited to positional sparring with very specific rules.
6/21/19 12:25 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 506
twinkletoesCT -
liuk3 - 

I've never even heard of it being an option for a white belt not to roll with another white belt...


lurker alert!

But should they?

LOL.

 

I don't think that it should be an issue, but they should be more closely supervised if completely brand new to rolling. I think that it gives them a chance to experiment and also gain experience with moving their body on the mats and feeling the weight/force of their opponents. Of course, they should also be more closely monitored for safety and so that things do not get out of hand. I think that it is good to roll with people of varied levels: better than you, at your level, and worse than you (although this may certainly be more limited the newer that you are).

Edited: 6/21/19 3:00 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 34223

Probably the best thing for a White Belt is to roll with Black Belts.

--and a lot of people don't know this, but actually the best thing for a Black Belt to do in order to improve is to roll with White Belts.

Look, I don't understand all the science, but a few years ago I stopped rolling with anyone but White Belts and my submission percentage LITERALLY skyrocketed by 500%.

 

 

Edited: 6/22/19 2:06 AM
5/8/02
Posts: 163
shen -

Probably the best thing for a White Belt is to roll with Black Belts.

--and a lot of people don't know this, but actually the best thing for a Black Belt to do in order to improve is to roll with White Belts.

Look, I don't understand all the science, but a few years ago I stopped rolling with anyone but White Belts and my submission percentage LITERALLY skyrocketed by 500%.

 

 

LMFAO!  This.

6/22/19 2:08 AM
3/6/07
Posts: 5219
checkuroil -

Day 1 vs Day 1.  No it’s pointless

8 month white belt vs day one, ok 

Recipe for the ole injury. 

 

White belts should not be allowed in tournaments. 

Edited: 6/24/19 4:42 PM
6/28/11
Posts: 1611

Depends. 

As long as they're good sports and not spazzy, I think it can be good for a "day 1" guy to see how hard it is to control (or escape from) an untrained person.  He will compare that to the sensations of rolling with someone more sophisticated, and this can be illustriative of the BJJ experience in an illuminating way.  That's how I started.

Buuuuut . . . on the other hand, a few years ago my academy instituted a 40-class "fundamentals" program that covers the basic concepts/positions/subs along with some positional sparring.  White belts are allowed to join the general population and participate in "free rolling" only after they complete this program.  Under this approach, truly "day 1" white belts literally never free roll with anyone--even on their first day of free rolling, our white belts can identify the major positions, have been taught fundamental techniques and movements, are familiar with relevant etiquette, etc.

In my opinon, having a "fundamentals" program like this has upped the quality (and lessened the attrition and injury rate) of our white belts over the traditional "here's a gi try not to die" approach that a lot of us grew up with. 

TLDR - I think there are benefits to allowing reasonable and trustworthy "day 1" white belts to roll.  However, if an academy can arrange for a robust fundamentals program, I think that works better all around and moots the question of allowing "day 1" folks to roll altogether. 

 

6/25/19 7:58 AM
10/13/05
Posts: 6019
i think it depends on the school. if the school only has beginners, then there really isnt a choice. if the school is an established school with a good student base, with beginners classes and advanced classes (that have white belts), then its best to match up skilled white belts with newcomers.
pitting 2 newbs together will just lengthen development imo.
so it depends
24 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 8570
shen - 

Probably the best thing for a White Belt is to roll with Black Belts.

--and a lot of people don't know this, but actually the best thing for a Black Belt to do in order to improve is to roll with White Belts.

Look, I don't understand all the science, but a few years ago I stopped rolling with anyone but White Belts and my submission percentage LITERALLY skyrocketed by 500%.

 

 


Actually I've heard this before and I think there is some truth to it.

Black belts who regularly spar with lower belt (Blue and white) have been known to improve tremendously because the sparring situation allows the black belt to get in more "reps" on a live opponent who is offering resistance. The key is the opponent's lower levels of experience and ability.

Now white belts and blue belts can benefit from regularly sparring with black belt PROVIDED the black belt doesn't completely shut down the white/blue belts but rather "guides" and "directs" them in terms of how to move, attack, counter, defend, etc
24 days ago
9/9/02
Posts: 13067
We have a white belt only class at the gym and when I come in for the next class they are usually rolling, its great, like watching National Geographic or Animal Planet

19 days ago
2/28/05
Posts: 1328
shen - 

Probably the best thing for a White Belt is to roll with Black Belts.

--and a lot of people don't know this, but actually the best thing for a Black Belt to do in order to improve is to roll with White Belts.

Look, I don't understand all the science, but a few years ago I stopped rolling with anyone but White Belts and my submission percentage LITERALLY skyrocketed by 500%.

 

 


It has LITERALLY been way too f'ing long since being on the UG. LMFAO shen
19 days ago
9/29/13
Posts: 10107

Of course they should, if only for the entertainment value.

 

i heard one white belt say to another white belt before a roll.  “Are there any injuries I should be aware of?”   I about died 

19 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 37407
What in the world is happening to this hobby?
19 days ago
3/18/02
Posts: 87793

no.  new whites together = injuries

depends on the white belt.  trusted 4 stripers in my club get to roll with other whites, thats it 

19 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 1914

I don’t think I’ve been in a gym where white belts don’t roll with white belts.  

16 days ago
12/26/02
Posts: 11923
Hey Beer Man - 

I don’t think I’ve been in a gym where white belts don’t roll with white belts.  


I know they do. Should they?

16 days ago
12/7/10
Posts: 163

Yes they should. Great way to learn that relaxing and using technique will help you against someone who isn't doing that.

 

As far as tournaments go: master 2 or 3 White Belts, heavyweight and above is the one to watch.

No technique but old man strength and they don't give a fuck as everything always hurts anyway. Epic battles!

 

Edited: 16 days ago
12/21/04
Posts: 1992
I personally would not feel comfortable promoting a white belt if I never saw him/her test his/her skills against another white belt. A big part of bjj development is being able to beat, or at least hold you own against, someone less experienced than you are. Of course white belts can injure one another but with proper oversight, supervision, and smart pairings (e.g., not pairing the 125 pounder with a 200 pound spaz) you can significantly reduce the risk of injury.