Train Judo Ground JUDO banned all leg holding...why?

5/31/18 5:03 PM
5/20/18
Posts: 2

why on earth did IJF ban leg grasping? 

does this rule apply for olympics??

5/31/18 8:37 PM
3/28/07
Posts: 3832

This was a hot topic about 6 years ago.  I personnally think when Naidan(Mongolia) won the gold medal(100K weight class)  in the 2008 Olympics by staying crouched over and doing all leg grabs and the opponent could not throw him and these opponents were the extremely high level players.  Also the lower weight classes(former Soviet Countries) fought this way.  Eliminate "wrestling style" judo to more traditional judo.   The players have invented their own techniques like kata garuma without grabbing the leg that are pretty cool to watch.

Edited: 6/1/18 7:06 PM
5/20/18
Posts: 3

I think this is an awful decision it virtually eliminates judo's effectiveness as a martial art and transition to MMA... if they created another Greco type division I would be all for it but eliminating such an effective series of techniques from the sport permanently is very detrimental in my opinion. It seems this is all about eliminating wrestlers which is sad considering what an amazing martial art Judo was... why not just use what you have to win and adjust if you do not...full disclosure I come from a Freestyle Wrestling MMA Muay Thai background. I LOVED judo but only practiced it for 3 years back in the mid 90ties, I always thought "fiddling" with rules was a bad idea unless there were people getting hurt

 

IMO they just wanted to engourage "high amplitude throws" and disadvantage wrestlers. they keep fiddling with american "folkstyle" wrestling rules and that killed the specatator value of the sport cause only experts can understand the scoring system. 

 

changing the point allocation system is somewhat understandable but eliminating such a vast series of holds is terrible, im so dissapointed.

 

can you point me to a few matches where leg holds were a "problem" so i can study the situation...i was off the mat for about 6 years and just recently had a chance to get back to it.

 

super frustrated that all i can find is bjj and this new "modified" judo rule!!!!

 

 

 

 

6/2/18 10:02 PM
3/28/07
Posts: 3833

Whether you like the leg grab rule or not judo has grown under the IJF and President Vizer.   

 

It is the bent over style that allows wrestling type leg grabs and negates traditional judo throws. 

Naidan quarterfinal match in the 2008 Olympics. His bent over style negates much of traditional judo.

  https://youtu.be/DKOZLrcAAqg

2008 Gold medal final.  Naidan using his hand to block the hip alot in the match and attacks with drop down leg grabs.  

 

https://youtu.be/aUsKrArxyOg

 

The new leg grab rule when it first came out was DQ if you blocked below the waist.  Now it is a penalty.  

6/3/18 6:43 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 2274
From my understanding the International Olympic Committee (IOC) was considering dropping Judo, so in order to distinguish it from Wrestling they had to drop all the leg techniques.

It wasn't because the japanese were making pressure because they WC champions were losing.

IJF made these changes. Which isn't a bad thing. I do miss the traditional kata guruma.

The countries that dominate Judo will adapt regarding what ruleset you use.
6/5/18 7:56 AM
3/28/07
Posts: 3834

The new style kata garumas are more spectacular than the old leg grab style.  Naidan adapted his judo style to be successful even today winning 100K gold in Hohhot, China this past weekend  at age 33.  He also won Olympic silver in 2012 in London despite a knee injury in the semi final.  This guy is a Mongolian hero. 

6/7/18 8:26 AM
5/20/18
Posts: 6

watched the videos, thanks! I HATE this rule, it vastly benefits the taller athlete while penalizing the shorter person AND alters kodakan judo! Once again just change the point system or add a division [greco/freestyle] dont mess with the nuts and bolts of the contest. I wonder if teddy reiner would be so successful if people could attack his legs? Remember "newsport" judo, what ever happened to that? When people go for the legs just headlock/body lock and go for the suplex  AWESOME ippon potential!!!

https://youtu.be/eXkfUJtFEPE

6/7/18 8:50 PM
3/28/07
Posts: 3837

Those kind of techniques on the video will get you a DQ in judo. Judo has its own version the khabarelli. 

https://youtu.be/5XGKeSgW3-s

 

Edited: 6/8/18 8:26 AM
5/20/18
Posts: 11

wow...AWESOME video example...why would that not be a great counter to the leg attack and the "bent at waist posture" 

whats wrong with my wrestling counter in judo rules?

I used this ALL the time in my Judo days to great effect [in the gym]

https://youtu.be/4er0IQ7RmQU

 

awesome counter!!

https://youtu.be/JTWGMfF2t7U

6/8/18 8:28 AM
5/20/18
Posts: 12

https://youtu.be/JTWGMfF2t7U

6/9/18 8:51 AM
3/28/07
Posts: 3838

That is the Georgian judo version which is pretty much the same.  I have seen that veideo before.  You wrestling version puts too much pressure on the neck/spine and can cause unnecessary unjury.  It would be a grave infraction in judo or DQ.

6/9/18 4:54 PM
5/20/18
Posts: 14

of course its only legal in wrestling with the arm and head...never just the head...im supprised, would love to see an ippon series with such a throw. 

this new rule very mutch advantages the taller athlete, no wonder BJJ took over, Judo has too many rules and mutch like wrestling is impossible to understand by anyone but the experts.

6/9/18 10:12 PM
3/28/07
Posts: 3839

The rules in judo are continously made to encourage action and not defensive judo. The rules are there to avoid serious unnecessary injuries also.  The sport is so extremely physical/technical and produces the best in the world thru the IJF events that brings the best in the world on the same platform.  There is so much more to judo than a suplex type more.  You need to be proficient in many judo throws.  And develope the ones you can score with.  

6/10/18 4:11 PM
5/20/18
Posts: 15

wrestling has the EXACT same theory in the rule changes.

Although many believe its all about attempts at higher television ratings. 

I think Judo was perfect the way it was and IJF just feared wrestlers taking over.

I think adding divisions is great but eliminating traditional techniques is aweful...O well, either way neither one of these sports will ever be understood because of the constant rule changes. Ancient sports should have been left alone. 

6/11/18 9:53 AM
3/28/07
Posts: 3841

I don't thnk it as much fearing wrestling taking over as the defensive wrestling posture does not bring out the best in judo techniques.  Judo today is more exciting to watch overall.  But I do miss an occasional morote gari grom the old days - double leg grab.  The changing of the rules is to encourage more dynamic judo, remove defensive judo and make the spport as safe as possible.  

6/14/18 9:08 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 6354

No they aren't afraid of wrestlers taking over... far from it.

6/14/18 8:36 PM
3/28/07
Posts: 3842

Agree.  2 of Amercia's best judoka had wrestling backgrounds.  Jason used judo to win his wrestling matches and Jimmy used his wrestling skills on the ground in judo.  Kayla Harrison and Travis Stevens 2 of America's best judoka had no wrestling background.  From watching over years of IJF level judo.  Wrestling can be of an advantage if you incorporate it with traditional judo,  But by itself will not get you anywhere.  Wrestling can be an advantage in counter throws but you better have the complete judo game or you won't be affective.  

6/15/18 6:48 PM
5/20/18
Posts: 16

i see your points but I think they were afraid of wrestlers "changing" the sport. hope they bring kodokan judo back one day and create another "greco" division instead of baning such an important aspect of the sport. whatever happined to "newsport" judo?

6/15/18 9:26 PM
3/28/07
Posts: 3844

I think they called it free style judo around here.  There was one fringe club around here that I never saw or heard of at a local tournament over 15 years.  The currect judo is here to stay and judo popularity has grown.  They have the complete age package for international competition.

Cadet    15-17

Juniors 15-20.

Seniors 15- 

More age groups below cadet but not under IJF.   If you are serious about judo have the skills the world is your stage.

 

 

Edited: 6/16/18 10:09 AM
12/21/04
Posts: 1730
judoblackbelt -

I don't thnk it as much fearing wrestling taking over as the defensive wrestling posture does not bring out the best in judo techniques.  Judo today is more exciting to watch overall.  But I do miss an occasional morote gari grom the old days - double leg grab.  The changing of the rules is to encourage more dynamic judo, remove defensive judo and make the spport as safe as possible.  

This. From what I recall one of my friends who used to work for Fighting Films even told me that the committee who decided on the leg grab ban was mostly made up representatives from countries that were really good at leg grabs, not the other way around. 

6/17/18 12:40 PM
3/28/07
Posts: 3847

That is interesting.  Those that used the bent over style and leg grabs are just as successful today.  In fact it made their judo better. They evolved.  Look at the new ways of kata garuma.   And they are still very good at counters.  But it has taken the element of suprise away when you don't have to worry about a morote gari attack. Somehow I miss the double leg grab attack where you usually start from a full standing posture.

6/22/18 12:30 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 6365

The leg grab rules screwed up my instructors son's game and a lot of other guys.  He was a kata gurma and kouchi makikomi guy.  It's been a tough adjustment also for guys doing things like tae-guruma or suki nage

6/23/18 7:44 AM
3/28/07
Posts: 3850

My ending thoughts are you better have the complete judo game if you want to compete on any advanced scale.  

6/24/18 9:19 PM
5/13/05
Posts: 4328

This is what happens as martial arts begin to turn to sport.

6/24/18 9:20 PM
5/13/05
Posts: 4329

Too bad freestyle judo doesn't have as many tournaments as IJF style tournaments held by USA Judo, USJA, USJF.