Train Judo Ground Will Judo bring back leg attacks?

11/7/18 12:39 PM
1/29/07
Posts: 578

I think leg grabs shoud be included with unorthodox gripping.  I think the best way to solve the problem is not to ban leg grabs but to allow them but give no score for any throw where a leg is grabbed.  This lets you keep the dynamic scoring element without neutering the art. 

11/8/18 1:28 PM
4/25/11
Posts: 2487
Kimura606 -

I think leg grabs shoud be included with unorthodox gripping.  I think the best way to solve the problem is not to ban leg grabs but to allow them but give no score for any throw where a leg is grabbed.  This lets you keep the dynamic scoring element without neutering the art. 

How does it keep the dynamic scoring element if they don't score?

1/3/19 2:51 PM
12/1/18
Posts: 13
judoblackbelt - Judo popularity world wide is at its highest due to IJF. They could modify the rules where you do not get disqualified for a leg attack/block but I don't seeing them allowing a score from them. The biggest challenge I see is scoring by penalties and winning by penalties. This is not enjoyable to watch. I still see too much grip fighting going on and no penalties given to encourage more attacks. So the players exploit this by defensive tactics until a shito is given to one of the players. You this in close competition/skills. Watch the Japanese/Koreans/Mongolians/Russians/Georgians/French men and women. They win by scoring, especially the Japanese. They go for the ippon.

You don't mean to imply that banning leg holds is a popular decision? Is this one of those things where everything has a higher rate of participation cuz there's more people than there were 10 years ago? 

Edited: 1/5/19 12:31 PM
12/1/18
Posts: 19

Judo is in REAL truble in the USA if this is the kind of crowd size they draw...looks like the IJF hasent done a thing for american judo

This is a tragic decision that just complicates the sport it makes it less effective for anything--but sport competition and it also heavily advantages the taller athlete as far as I'm concerned Judo isn't worth training anymore it's a shame

I remember when new sport Judo first hit I thought it was going to revolutionize the sport

Look at the success Brazilian jiu-jitsu had with Judo groundwork what a shame Judo missed the boat and someone else picked up your torch and ran it home for a touchdown

 

https://youtu.be/2R_mUyT0-uw

 

Edited: 1/6/19 6:52 PM
4/25/11
Posts: 2556
gurila -

Judo is in REAL truble in the USA if this is the kind of crowd size they draw...looks like the IJF hasent done a thing for american judo

This is a tragic decision that just complicates the sport it makes it less effective for anything--but sport competition and it also heavily advantages the taller athlete as far as I'm concerned Judo isn't worth training anymore it's a shame

I remember when new sport Judo first hit I thought it was going to revolutionize the sport

Look at the success Brazilian jiu-jitsu had with Judo groundwork what a shame Judo missed the boat and someone else picked up your torch and ran it home for a touchdown

 

https://youtu.be/2R_mUyT0-uw

 

Judo is fine, it is currently the most practiced combat sport on planet Earth and 3 judo events (men, women and teams) will be on display at the 2020 olympics. Not many people care about grappling sports in the USA, so it's lack of popularity here is not too concerning. The average person on the street couldn't tell you the names of any jiu-jitsu, judo or wrestling champions.

Also you can still get under opponents and pick people up, so don't understand why you think it is a sport reserved for tall people. There are also clubs in America that don't put alot of focus on sports competition, so you can still touch legs and do all kinds of stuff in practice.

3/29/19 7:08 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 10260
judoblackbelt - OCJTC- I you are #1 in watching IJF judo then I am #2. Excellent points you make.

the problem being you two constitute about 50% of the audience.

3/30/19 9:27 AM
3/28/07
Posts: 4029

Has anyone watched world class judo on regular basis like myself, Triple_B or Aaron (from the BJJ forum)?  I watch all the highlights from every IJF event.  Many times I watch all the medal matches.  The top throws get posted to my FB from "JudoHeros".  I enjoy ever minute of it.  So why comment on a post from  2016 when the sport has made so much progress.   More diverse countries sending top judokas into the the Senior ranks from Juniors.    You are starting to see judokas from India  which was unheard of.  I see no value talking about leg grabs when the sport has exploding in popularity around the world with new forms of kata garuma, more explosive counter throws and higher caliber of players in the top 20 as ranked by the IJF.  

3/30/19 10:21 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 10266

No one outside of the hardcore watches judo. That's the problem in American judo. Gary Goltz has a good article about it in the current issue of black belt

Edited: 3/30/19 1:09 PM
12/21/04
Posts: 1902
de braco -

No one outside of the hardcore watches judo. That's the problem in American judo. Gary Goltz has a good article about it in the current issue of black belt

That's unfortunate. Judo (at least at the higest levels) is much more exciting to watch than BJJ in my opinion. New judo rules promote aggressiveness while limiting stalling and defensive tactics. Plus, I can't think of anything more exciting than a dynamic ippon which can happen at anytime and on anyone. Some of the best judokas in the world can and do lose their first match in a big tournament which you hardley ever see in BJJ. Throw in the cultural diversity and global participation that exists in judo and you have a truly spectacular sport.     

3/30/19 4:12 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 10269

Becoming soley a game of trips has ruined it, olympic judo should be renamed trips, sambo renamed judo, and take current judo's spot in the olympics

3/30/19 9:05 PM
3/28/07
Posts: 4031

I agree with Aaron.  The game is so much more dynamic, monster stand up throws, transition and ground attacks that have so much time to execute.  And judokas who have come up thru the junior ranks that are on the verge of pushing the Seniors.  And like Aaoron said where can a top seed loose in the first round? No where but IJF judo.

3/30/19 9:19 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 10271
judoblackbelt -

I agree with Aaron.  The game is so much more dynamic, monster stand up throws, transition and ground attacks that have so much time to execute.  And judokas who have come up thru the junior ranks that are on the verge of pushing the Seniors.  And like Aaoron said where can a top seed loose in the first round? No where but IJF judo.

No one cares. No One Cares. NO ONE CARES. It has largely died in the states, judo survives in this country as a low respected ymca/cityrec activity. There are a few people working to turn the tide, but for every one of them there are ten frank dreben's such as yourself, telling everyone it's super!

 

4/1/19 11:08 PM
3/28/07
Posts: 4033

At the IJF level it is the most competitive grappling sport out there.   It is growing so vast in countries like India for example.  Never saw judokas from India but now you see them at  IJF events when some of the power countries are absent.  Where do you have a steady stream of Juniors who have already competed in their own World Championhsips  and Junior Olympic events?  All the words on this forum cannot stop this magnificent sport from growing in popularity.  

4/2/19 1:26 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 6984

Like a lot of martial arts it’s suffers from bad marketing and bad business decisions. This is my 40th year in the Martial Arts.  From my time in Judo which is not as long as some of you, it seems it’s a lot of a commitment to make. We have guys try out Judo at our club, people never stay.  We have striking and no-GI classes and they always take to that. It’s because it’s easier to learn. Judo is an incredible commitment and hard on the body. You can’t fake it either.  Most people are too lazy to deal with that. I know because I come from a striking back ground. It’s a totally different workout.  Apples and oranges in comparison to each other. 

4/2/19 1:27 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 10286
judoblackbelt -

At the IJF level it is the most competitive grappling sport out there.   It is growing so vast in countries like India for example.  Never saw judokas from India but now you see them at  IJF events when some of the power countries are absent.  Where do you have a steady stream of Juniors who have already competed in their own World Championhsips  and Junior Olympic events?  All the words on this forum cannot stop this magnificent sport from growing in popularity.  

Mad as a fucking hatter

4/2/19 1:34 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 10287
Outkaster -

Like a lot of martial arts it’s suffers from bad marketing and bad business decisions. This is my 40th year in the Martial Arts.  From my time in Judo which is not as long as some of you, it seems it’s a lot of a commitment to make. We have guys try out Judo at our club, people never stay.  We have striking and no-GI classes and they always take to that. It’s because it’s easier to learn. Judo is an incredible commitment and hard on the body. You can’t fake it either.  Most people are too lazy to deal with that. I know because I come from a striking back ground. It’s a totally different workout.  Apples and oranges in comparison to each other. 

46 years for me, judo was much more popular when i was a pup. Now it's dead in the states, ready for an autopsy. It's a shame because a lot of people could use what judo and wrestling could give them. They'll just go to a bjj gym instead

Edited: 4/4/19 8:55 AM
3/28/07
Posts: 4035

Outcaster- You are spot on.  The commitment part is huge.  Not only training 2/3 times a week but lifting weights/running to supplement the sport.  Going to seminars, competitions, watching tons of Olympic level judo footage, stretching/yoga routines, chiropractic care, rehab injuries.  It is a total mindset.  I also did BJJ for 8 years.  At the time all of us were blue belts and 1 purple belt.  Today they are all blackbelts.  That is why after 21 years I had to give it.  My body and mind needed a break. Took my body  around 3 years to completely heal.  Acupuncture was a huge part of this.  I have more time mentally to do other things.  I miss it all the time but I don't miss the committment that goes with it.  I stay in touch with my club and grappling friends.  Practice my footwork/throws simulation all the time.  Watch IJF level judo video all the time.

5/31/19 11:55 AM
2/20/19
Posts: 0

I hope so because I train sambo and I have many set ups and variation for my leg locks.

6/6/19 7:45 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 7103

I guess it's still up in the air, I haven't heard much if anything about rule changes?

6/6/19 9:47 AM
4/25/11
Posts: 2710
Outkaster -

I guess it's still up in the air, I haven't heard much if anything about rule changes?

There is nothing up in the air. Judo is massively popular and they don't want to risk going backwards by reintroducing leg attacks that could potentially lead them back to a less TV friendly version of judo

6/12/19 8:00 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 7127

Massively popular?  Not in the states it isn't.  It's not neccesarily going backwards either.  I have been to dojos in three different states and everyone hates the leg attack rule.  It screwed up a lot of people's game.

Edited: 6/12/19 9:43 AM
4/25/11
Posts: 2714
Outkaster -

Massively popular?  Not in the states it isn't.  It's not neccesarily going backwards either.  I have been to dojos in three different states and everyone hates the leg attack rule.  It screwed up a lot of people's game.

The world is bigger than the United States of America, get on a plane and see for yourself. Judo's popularity in the US has more to do with US Judo then the IJF. Also, our grappling and sports culture and the fact that most judo dojos are run part time and not for profit. If Jiu-Jitsu clubs only offered classes Tues and Thursday and used a karate schools mat space would you blame it's lack of popularity on the IBJJF?

6/12/19 8:21 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 10585

i see you edited your most popular in the world statement, i'm pretty sure that honorific belongs to tkd anyway. So good on you, triple stealth edit. make no mistake, bjj will overtake judo on a worlwide scale in time, and trips will slowly circle the drain of history

6/12/19 10:36 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 10586

 

Edited: 6/13/19 12:37 AM
4/25/11
Posts: 2717
de braco -

i see you edited your most popular in the world statement, i'm pretty sure that honorific belongs to tkd anyway. So good on you, triple stealth edit. make no mistake, bjj will overtake judo on a worlwide scale in time, and trips will slowly circle the drain of history

Actually your wrong, judo is in fact the most popular martial art in the world. I edited my post because he was talking about the US, so I wanted to give him a detailed answer that focused more on what he was actually talking about.

BJJ is not going to get anywhere close to overtaking judo in our life time for a variety of reasons:

1. There is an IOC recognized combat sport named Jujitsu. It's pretty cool kind of like a mix of kickboxing and judo, mostly practiced in Europe. They aren't going to recognize another one with a similar name.

2. Outside of Brazil and the US, no other countries are consistently producing top players. It is also not popular in many countries where judo is.

3. The IBJJF is a for profit organization that only holds it's most prestigious events in America because we can afford to pay their fees.

4. Jiu jitsu is not exactly unified and working towards a common goal and many people despise the IBJJF, but participate because winning there gives them arguably the most prestigious titles in the sport. No Gi, Sub Only, Pro shows, etc. will continue to grow in popularity.

5. The style of submission grappling that probably has the best chance of getting into the Olympics due to some things happening behind the scenes and the fact that it has athletes representing more countries than jiu-jitsu is Grappling which is run by UWW and a little different than most typical Jiu-Jitsu rule sets. There are many different restart positions on the ground if the action goes out of bounds for example and your opponent gets takedown points if you pull guard without an immediate attack, among other things.

6. Jiu-Jitsu is fun to practice, but boring to watch and very difficult to understand for the average person.

It is pretty obvious that you don't actually watch judo if you think "trips" are overly dominate now. Plenty of people win with Uchi Mata, Seoi Nage and other classic throws that don't involve "tripping" your opponent with your legs. All you have to do is go on IJF's YouTube channel and watch highlight videos of ippons from a recent tournament.