OtherGround Forums .999 Silver = Best long term investment

1/26/12 11:30 PM
3/13/08
Posts: 6211
DAVE--

Also, just to prove you're doing the right thing, I have a test for you.

Call coin shops and ask if they're buying 999 silver American Eagles or Canadian Silver Maples. They will all say yes. Ask the same coin shops if they will buy Kennedy silver dollars and maybe half will and half won't.

I am proud to call you my friend and happy for you man!!!
1/27/12 7:49 AM
12/2/05
Posts: 7445
SgtJustinTeplitz - DAVE--

Also, just to prove you're doing the right thing, I have a test for you.

Call coin shops and ask if they're buying 999 silver American Eagles or Canadian Silver Maples. They will all say yes. Ask the same coin shops if they will buy Kennedy silver dollars and maybe half will and half won't.

I am proud to call you my friend and happy for you man!!!
That alone doesn't make 90% silver coins a bad choice. If coin shops are your exit strategy, then you have a major flaw in your plan anyway.

90% silver coins are going for 13x-14x face value on eBay. Then you have Craigslist.

One final advantage of 90% silver. If your buying because your concerned about total economic collapse, then 90% coins give you the flexibility of different denominations. Ie a dime would be a $20 dollar piece, a quarter a $50 dollar piece and so on. But if you only have eagles, a small purchase will be a problem. Phone Post
1/27/12 8:10 AM
10/4/02
Posts: 15608
^ What *should* one's exit strategy be, if not a coin shop? (Seriously). That's what I'd been planning until I checked my shop's buy prices - freakin horrible. (Btw, I have mostly junk silver, at the moment. My future purchases will be .999) Phone Post
1/27/12 9:02 AM
12/2/05
Posts: 7447
SirPrize - ^ What *should* one's exit strategy be, if not a coin shop? (Seriously). That's what I'd been planning until I checked my shop's buy prices - freakin horrible. (Btw, I have mostly junk silver, at the moment. My future purchases will be .999) Phone Post
IMO, you need to put yourself in a position to get near retail prices. You do this by selling on eBay, Craigslist or a similar services. Anytime you sell to a dealer (even apex or Gainesville) they're going to be paying you wholesale prices. The only time you should exit like that is in an emergency (ie you need cash in a hurry). But even with that you could liquidate via eBay in 2-5 days. Phone Post
1/27/12 10:03 AM
12/27/07
Posts: 246
sub'd
1/27/12 10:11 AM
12/2/05
Posts: 7448
RJJH - any USA coin made before 1964 is .999 silver.
Not nickels (and obviously pennies).

And '65-'70 Kennedy halves are 40% silver. Phone Post
1/27/12 11:07 AM
10/4/02
Posts: 15610
For junk silver prices, check www.coinflation.com
1/27/12 12:45 PM
11/23/02
Posts: 2615
SgtJustinTeplitz - 
Bean Bag -  Even if trillions more is printed for QE3, who says that silver and gold will sky rocket?  I have been investing in silver since 2000 and gold since 2003 and I have seen the markets 'print' paper/fiat silver and gold to dilute the spot price.  They will do the same to keep the spot prices artifically low.

When will the street price seperate from the spot price?  

 <br type="_moz" />



QE3 (which won't happen for a while) will devalue the dollar, thus making silver and gold higher. The more the US Dollar gains strength, the less silver is worth (and vice versa). However, a global meltdown will see silver and gold skyrocket.
I understand the basic concepts of inflation, deflation, and economics.  What I am worried about is the paper that is being created to 'represent' silver and gold that is nothing more than paper.  When QE3 happens, I suspect that more paper silver/gold will be created to keep the spot price from spiking.
 
1/27/12 1:10 PM
12/2/05
Posts: 7449
kvr29 -
RJJH - any USA coin made before 1964 is .999 silver.

 not true, they are 90 percent and nickels are not silver except the war nickels from 1942 to 1945 are silver
This. I didn't even notice you had the wrong %. Phone Post
1/27/12 1:45 PM
4/24/07
Posts: 16170
 i know this thread is about silver but I have been reading alot about gold hitting 10k/oz . How realistic is this? Should I buy some gold coins as well?
1/27/12 1:47 PM
12/2/05
Posts: 7450
David@accu -  i know this thread is about silver but I have been reading alot about gold hitting 10k/oz . How realistic is this? Should I buy some gold coins as well?
I would think if you have the $$$, prolly not a bad idea. Phone Post
1/27/12 2:06 PM
4/24/07
Posts: 16171


If anyone uses Bullion Direct could you explain to me what "trading  power" is?
1/27/12 2:23 PM
12/7/05
Posts: 4489
David@accu - 

If anyone uses Bullion Direct could you explain to me what "trading  power" is?

 It's like your credit line....   You can buy up to that amount, the order will execute on the nucleo market, but you have to pay within 3 days.
1/27/12 2:23 PM
3/22/11
Posts: 418
EasyTapper - If your buying because your concerned about total economic collapse, then 90% coins give you the flexibility of different denominations. Ie a dime would be a $20 dollar piece, a quarter a $50 dollar piece and so on. But if you only have eagles, a small purchase will be a problem.


Think of your wallet, if you had $200 it wouldnt make sense to carry only two $100 bills. It also wouldnt make sense to carry $200 in dimes. Ideally i would say something like:
1x$100
1x$20
2x$10
4x$5
30x$1
the last $10 in a mix of coins

If it comes to it people will be giving other things for change (or giving back .90% dimes and quarters junk silver) ... or you can buy more supplies, other non-perishables. Better to have the silver and have to worry about how to spend it in increments rather than not have anything.

I would suggest having SOME junk silver but only enough to make change (5% of stack).


Another option is fractional .999 silver, be careful because fractional bullion is general more costly per oz but you can find things like this which is the same price:
http://bullion.nwtmint.com/silver_stagecoach.php

Easy to split if you need to make change, again i wouldnt recommend a complete stack of it ... but just some to use as another option.

Pros:
-.999 silver
-divisible
-lower mark up

Cons:
-NWTM isnt as well known
-not as recognizable as ASE or MAPLES


----------


EasyTapper - 
David@accu -  i know this thread is about silver but I have been reading alot about gold hitting 10k/oz . How realistic is this? Should I buy some gold coins as well?
I would think if you have the $$$, prolly not a bad idea. <img src="/images/phone/apple.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/>


The benefits of gold is its easily concealable $50K worth = 30 coins that could fit in you pocket if you needed to flee the country .... But I would suggest for anyone getting into Precious metals to start with silver until they build a big enough base of smaller items (500+ oz) before looking into buying gold.

Think of gold as a $1000 bill, I put it in the same category as 100oz bars of silver.

Silver:Gold ratio is around 50:1 meaning you could have 2oz of gold or 100oz of silver.

Gold is less volatile than silver. I feel it will rise first and silver will play catch up, you might be able to play the GSR but now with it at 50:1 i think silver is the better bet.

Personally i think silver will out perform gold in the long run (10:1 ratio) so it might be a bit more of a gamble but i think it makes sense.

Silver would be my first choice, gold my 2nd.

just my 2cents
1/27/12 4:51 PM
4/24/07
Posts: 16172
 Thoughts/feelings on palladium and platinum?
1/27/12 7:47 PM
3/22/11
Posts: 419
David@accu -  Thoughts/feelings on palladium and platinum?



there is money to be made short term playing these commodities against each other but IMO this is against the reason for getting into PM.

I dont recommend people get into PM to make a quick profit, plan to hold for long term and as a hedge against inflation. I would suggest everyone build a base of physical ... after that if you want to gamble around go for it.
1/27/12 9:18 PM
7/10/07
Posts: 1093
If you want to buy bulk silver for decent over spot price you can check out apmex. Com Phone Post
1/27/12 9:21 PM
8/2/11
Posts: 2561
nubs - If you want to buy bulk silver for decent over spot price you can check out apmex. Com Phone Post
Do they have minimum purchases? Most websites I saw had like 3-5k minimums and I only want to spend around $500 at a time Phone Post
1/27/12 11:22 PM
3/13/08
Posts: 6214
Great advice on here guys. I am learning a lot from you guys.

Paper silver/gold= bull$hit to me. When $hit hits the fan, you can only depend on physical gold/silver.

Dave, I used to buy gold, but

1. It's too expensive
2. Silver is the better value. While the ratio is now 51-1 in gold's favor, it will definitely be 20-1 within a few decades (just an educated guess and I could be wrtong)

I also believed gold as "easier to carry", "easier to store", and "easier to put in a safe deposit box", et cetera, but if silver has more potential to grow more, who cares about convenience. It's all about which is the better value and which will make you more profit for your hard-earned money.

Thanks for the continuous posts guys. I like all of you guys and appreciate your comments. For the guy who posted the fractional 999 silver site, I will check it out right now...thanks
1/27/12 11:28 PM
3/13/08
Posts: 6215
AG_Bull,

http://bullion.nwtmint.com/silver_stagecoach.php

is an interesting web site. Have you bought the 1 ounce bars/rounds that break up into 1/4 ounce? Can you literally snap them and break them into 1/4 oz with your bare hands?

You can also buy 1/10 and 1/4 oz on eBay. Of course, they're more expensive...
1/28/12 1:02 AM
7/10/07
Posts: 1094
rosario00 -
nubs - If you want to buy bulk silver for decent over spot price you can check out apmex. Com Phone Post
Do they have minimum purchases? Most websites I saw had like 3-5k minimums and I only want to spend around $500 at a time Phone Post
They don't have a minimum but the more you buy the closer to spot you can the silver at. Go to the web site. Phone Post
1/28/12 6:03 AM
10/4/02
Posts: 15614
Junk silver also has a few other caveats, which you should probably learn at some point:

Since these are coins that were actually in circulation, usually for a long time, they can often be quite worn down. This reduces the total silver in he coins. Silver bugs have done some calculation / estimates and arrived at a commonly-held "standard" for total silver per dollar face value. I can't remember exactly, but I think it's 0.721 oz of silver per USD face value. So, if silver is $30/oz, one USD of face value (4 quarters, for example), would be have $30 x 0.721 worth of silver. (I think this is roughly how the "x times face value" price is determined.) To find the value of each quarter, you would obviously divide the product by 4.

You can find articles online, if you want more details (and to verify the 0.721 value, which I recommend before doing any transactions based on this figure) Phone Post
1/28/12 7:49 AM
12/2/05
Posts: 7451
SirPrize - Junk silver also has a few other caveats, which you should probably learn at some point:

Since these are coins that were actually in circulation, usually for a long time, they can often be quite worn down. This reduces the total silver in he coins. Silver bugs have done some calculation / estimates and arrived at a commonly-held "standard" for total silver per dollar face value. I can't remember exactly, but I think it's 0.721 oz of silver per USD face value. So, if silver is $30/oz, one USD of face value (4 quarters, for example), would be have $30 x 0.721 worth of silver. (I think this is roughly how the "x times face value" price is determined.) To find the value of each quarter, you would obviously divide the product by 4.

You can find articles online, if you want more details (and to verify the 0.721 value, which I recommend before doing any transactions based on this figure) Phone Post
The .721 one sounds HIGH. That would make it 72.10 per dollar. I've heard that each 1.42 of 90% silver coins contains 1oz.

One other advantage of "junk" silver would be the instant acceptance. In a bad situation, their authenticity will be rarely challenged. However, I think a lot of the bars and things like that might hold some skepticism. Phone Post
1/28/12 8:35 AM
3/22/11
Posts: 420
SgtJustinTeplitz - AG_Bull,

http://bullion.nwtmint.com/silver_stagecoach.php

is an interesting web site. Have you bought the 1 ounce bars/rounds that break up into 1/4 ounce? Can you literally snap them and break them into 1/4 oz with your bare hands?

You can also buy 1/10 and 1/4 oz on eBay. Of course, they're more expensive...


yes i bought some 1oz bars and rounds that break up, you can use a hammer + chisel but i prefer using pliers and vice. They fracture with a little bit of work, you couldn't break them with just your hands but if i had to i could probably break a piece off in 1-2mins.

The problem with the website/company NWTM is they have a long delay in buying time since they manufacture their own silver products .. something like 3months. You will have to check with each site to see what their minimum order value is ($$$). I believe NWTM had a minimum order size of

APMEX.com is also a good site to order from, fast, fair prices, good selection.

For the best prices if you are ok with a BIG order (500oz minimum i believe) Tulving.com is a site people speak highly of, i have never used it personally.

if you only plan on spending $500 at a time i would suggest looking around for a local dealer, else the shipping costs might eat up and savings from buying online (depends on the site). Check out ebay and craigslist but be careful of scam artists/flaky people. I prefer online buying VS personal ads simply for the ease and anonymity.

----------------

some video's of people breaking similar rounds with a hammer and chisel (but honestly its easier than they make it out to be)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlne0vYoj84

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bn1fBTd5kJs
1/28/12 9:08 AM
10/4/02
Posts: 15615
EasyTapper - The .721 one sounds HIGH. That would make it 72.10 per dollar. I've heard that each 1.42 of 90% silver coins contains 1oz.

One other advantage of "junk" silver would be the instant acceptance. In a bad situation, their authenticity will be rarely challenged. However, I think a lot of the bars and things like that might hold some skepticism.


I agree with you about the almost instant acceptability. I think American Eagles would also be instantly accepted. Bars and round? Not so much.

As for your question about the percentage, I'm not sure how you got $72.10. 0.721 * $30 = $21.63.

Here's a great article I found that explains this, as well as some other considerations regarding junk silver.

"In practice, the content is usually assumed to be 0.715 ounces because of wear." - from the site above.

From Wikipedia:
"Any combination of 90-percent silver U.S. coins which have a face value of US$1.00 contains 0.715 troy ounces of 99.9-percent silver[2] (0.7234 troy ounces if uncirculated), except for the silver dollars (Morgan and Peace) which contain .7736 troy ounces of silver. In other words, a full troy ounce of 99.9-percent silver is contained in any combination of 90-percent silver U.S. coins which have a face value of US$1.40"

The second way is the way you mentioned ($1.40 face = 1 oz, then times market value). However, I find the math much easier in the first way (Face value * 0.715 * market value), especially when trying to do odd values. How much is $3.25 in face worth, for example? Try calculating the value both ways and let me know what you think. :)