OtherGround Forums Anti vaxxers? Tell me everything

8/9/16 9:10 PM
5/7/08
Posts: 13758
Festus -
MayorPirkle - You got all these parents railing against vaccines, while there is a vaccine sitting in storage in England that I would murder anyone on this board to get my hands on if I could. Funny how different humans can be. Phone Post 3.0
I have to know what? Phone Post 3.0
http://crohnsmapvaccine.com/ Phone Post 3.0
8/9/16 9:59 PM
5/22/16
Posts: 99
I used to think vaccines were for protecting myself, and since I didn't need to be protected, I didn't need to be vaccinated. Then I learned that I needed to be inoculated so I can protect others who are unable to take vaccines. Now I even get flu shots knowing how ineffective they can be so I can help raise the herd immunity. Phone Post 3.0
8/10/16 12:19 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 20103
treesmasher -
Mark1 - 
treesmasher - depends. which vaccines? is all the extra crap the put in vaccines necessary? i think those are legit questions.
Lol. What "extra crap"

Mark Phone Post 3.0

http://www.vaccines.gov/basics/safety/vaccine_ingredients/

this is the official governments pro vaccine description of some of the ingredients found in vaccines. now ask yourself this - do you trust the government to honestly and accurately be trusted with ANYTHING let alone something that is potentially going to be forcefully injected or taken in you or your kids?

i just find it odd that most people question and are skeptical about the government but certain things like vaccines they become complete plebs. im not anti-vaccine by any means but if i ever have kids id want to know what they are pumping into them and why. theres just way too much crap in some of these vaccines.
Instead of having an opinion that there is "crap" in vaccines, why don't you ask some actual experts (scientists-not bloggers that couldn't even get into med school) what each of the ingredients does? Phone Post 3.0
8/10/16 12:22 AM
10/6/14
Posts: 6545
Beards - Saying you are a fucking idiot for not vaccinating because of science is not a valid argument. Why? Because you are just regurgitating what you here on TV. Is most of it solid? I think so. There's lots of holes in there. If you don't see it you're not doing your homework. Any time $ is involved there's fuckery.
I actually agree with most of that. The only problem is the only evidence i have been shown regarding the anti vaxxer stance has been in the form of an internet meme. The evidence of vaccines working is everywhere. The eradication of numerous diseases and such. I havent seen the study that really validates the anti vaxxers stance Phone Post 3.0
8/10/16 12:24 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 20104
Beards - Saying you are a fucking idiot for not vaccinating because of science is not a valid argument. Why? Because you are just regurgitating what you here on TV. Is most of it solid? I think so. There's lots of holes in there. If you don't see it you're not doing your homework. Any time $ is involved there's fuckery.
If you trust yourself over the scientific community in matters of science that you are not qualified to understand, you are proving that you are attracted completely implausible conspiracy theories. Phone Post 3.0
8/16/16 9:39 AM
11/28/11
Posts: 15015
^ the next level of tin foil hat is a cookie sheet folded to look like a pirate hat and I believe Beard is wearing one Phone Post 3.0
Edited: 8/16/16 11:17 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 7326
Southpaw76 - I have a family member posting all this crap on facebook against vaccines. Now she is starting arguments with others in my family. Ive always thought it was idiotic to skip vaccines that can prevent terrible diseases, but i dont know enough about the actual research out there.

Would love to hear from both sides on this. Need info if i get pulled into this debate, thanks Phone Post 3.0

 

Youre gonna have to do your own "research".  
 
Because youre going to get biased responses on both sides of the argument.  
 
As it currently stands, it is illegal to sue the manufactures of vaccines for damage caused by their product.  
 
You can sue them for other reasons: mislabeling, “false” advertising etc.
 
At the moment, there are two "major" vaccine related law suits pending (that I'm aware of): United States v. Merck & Co. and Chatom Primary Care v. Merck & Co.  IIRC both suits are based on former employee whistle blowers.
 
In lieu of being able to sue the vaccine manufacturers, our government has set up the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program.  To date the VICP has paid out $3.3 Billion to compensate people injured by vaccines.
 
But its not a transparent "court".  For example, in the case of Ryan Mojabi, the concession document is under seal and the case was "unpublished" meaning information is limited, and access to medical records and other exhibits are blocked.
 
The movie Vaxxed is about another whistle blower who claims that the CDC worked in collusion with vaccine manufacturers to conceal evidence showing that vaccines are harmful.
 
I would tend to agree that the % of people harmed by vaccines is relatively small but theres no definitive way to determine the numbers because there is a concerted effort to silence any criticism.
 
Good luck.
8/16/16 11:19 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 7327
Beards - https://youtu.be/XdLyMhNdcSc
This guy nails it

 

8/16/16 4:53 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 20135
Beards -
demandango - 
Beards - Saying you are a fucking idiot for not vaccinating because of science is not a valid argument. Why? Because you are just regurgitating what you here on TV. Is most of it solid? I think so. There's lots of holes in there. If you don't see it you're not doing your homework. Any time $ is involved there's fuckery.
If you trust yourself over the scientific community in matters of science that you are not qualified to understand, you are proving that you are attracted completely implausible conspiracy theories. Phone Post 3.0

Anything can be manipulated if you have enough people, media, and $.
Dunning Kruger Phone Post 3.0
8/16/16 9:44 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 20138
FreightTrain -
Southpaw76 - I have a family member posting all this crap on facebook against vaccines. Now she is starting arguments with others in my family. Ive always thought it was idiotic to skip vaccines that can prevent terrible diseases, but i dont know enough about the actual research out there.

Would love to hear from both sides on this. Need info if i get pulled into this debate, thanks Phone Post 3.0

 

Youre gonna have to do your own "research".  
 
Because youre going to get biased responses on both sides of the argument.  
 
As it currently stands, it is illegal to sue the manufactures of vaccines for damage caused by their product.  
 
You can sue them for other reasons: mislabeling, “false” advertising etc.
 
At the moment, there are two "major" vaccine related law suits pending (that I'm aware of): United States v. Merck & Co. and Chatom Primary Care v. Merck & Co.  IIRC both suits are based on former employee whistle blowers.
 
In lieu of being able to sue the vaccine manufacturers, our government has set up the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program.  To date the VICP has paid out $3.3 Billion to compensate people injured by vaccines.
 
But its not a transparent "court".  For example, in the case of Ryan Mojabi, the concession document is under seal and the case was "unpublished" meaning information is limited, and access to medical records and other exhibits are blocked.
 
The movie Vaxxed is about another whistle blower who claims that the CDC worked in collusion with vaccine manufacturers to conceal evidence showing that vaccines are harmful.
 
I would tend to agree that the % of people harmed by vaccines is relatively small but theres no definitive way to determine the numbers because there is a concerted effort to silence any criticism.
 
Good luck.
Tonne of bs in here Phone Post 3.0
8/16/16 9:51 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 51811
Honestly, I'd be more worried about Guillan Barre Syndrome than autism. At least when it comes to the flu vaccine.
8/16/16 10:04 PM
5/30/05
Posts: 69983
Gotta pay the troll toll. Phone Post 3.0
8/16/16 10:26 PM
10/27/03
Posts: 15743
MayorPirkle -
Festus -
MayorPirkle - You got all these parents railing against vaccines, while there is a vaccine sitting in storage in England that I would murder anyone on this board to get my hands on if I could. Funny how different humans can be. Phone Post 3.0
I have to know what? Phone Post 3.0
http://crohnsmapvaccine.com/ Phone Post 3.0
Could you fly over there and pay to get what you want? Phone Post 3.0
8/17/16 12:41 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 20139
groundfighter2000 - Honestly, I'd be more worried about Guillan Barre Syndrome than autism. At least when it comes to the flu vaccine.
http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/link-vaccines-guillain-barre-syndrome/ Phone Post 3.0
8/17/16 2:06 PM
5/7/08
Posts: 13812
FingerorMoon -
MayorPirkle -
Festus -
MayorPirkle - You got all these parents railing against vaccines, while there is a vaccine sitting in storage in England that I would murder anyone on this board to get my hands on if I could. Funny how different humans can be. Phone Post 3.0
I have to know what? Phone Post 3.0
http://crohnsmapvaccine.com/ Phone Post 3.0
Could you fly over there and pay to get what you want? Phone Post 3.0
The criteria for the trials is very very strict, starting with being a UK resident. I don't have near the kind of money necessary for it. I'm not sure how all of that works because you hear all the time about patients agreeing to experimental treatments that aren't gubmint approved. All I know is that this thing can't go through trial quick enough. The fact that it's a vaccine couldn't worry me less. Phone Post 3.0
8/17/16 6:59 PM
10/27/03
Posts: 15746
MayorPirkle - 
FingerorMoon -
MayorPirkle -
Festus -
MayorPirkle - You got all these parents railing against vaccines, while there is a vaccine sitting in storage in England that I would murder anyone on this board to get my hands on if I could. Funny how different humans can be. Phone Post 3.0
I have to know what? Phone Post 3.0
http://crohnsmapvaccine.com/ Phone Post 3.0
Could you fly over there and pay to get what you want? Phone Post 3.0
The criteria for the trials is very very strict, starting with being a UK resident. I don't have near the kind of money necessary for it. I'm not sure how all of that works because you hear all the time about patients agreeing to experimental treatments that aren't gubmint approved. All I know is that this thing can't go through trial quick enough. The fact that it's a vaccine couldn't worry me less. Phone Post 3.0


Sucks to hear that man.
Hope it gets through the trail fast and you can get access.
Have a VU though if that helps :)
8/17/16 7:37 PM
9/1/15
Posts: 534
I work for an attorney and he had his 2nd kid and upon the child getting a vaccine, he and his wife immediately noticed a change over the next few days unlike their other child... He completely blames the vaccines Phone Post 3.0
8/17/16 7:45 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 20143
Saint Louis - I work for an attorney and he had his 2nd kid and upon the child getting a vaccine, he and his wife immediately noticed a change over the next few days unlike their other child... He completely blames the vaccines Phone Post 3.0
Correlation vs causation.

It looks like many things were "caused by vaccines" to a laymen or an idiot because they happen around the same time, but further study has shown no causal link. This is why these people decide these things, because they can't tell the difference between correlation and causation. Phone Post 3.0
8/17/16 7:49 PM
8/20/03
Posts: 118632
FreightTrain - 
Beards - https://youtu.be/XdLyMhNdcSc
This guy nails it

 


That is some of the worst reasoning and straw man arguing that I have seen in a long time.

That guy is a moron.
8/17/16 8:11 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 2848

http://www.watoday.com.au/national/the-dodgy-academic-journals-publishing-antivaxxers-and-other-crappy-science-20160817-gquu3z.html

 

9/10/16 11:03 AM
7/2/02
Posts: 892
This isn't scientific but I will tell you guys about my boss's son. Normal little boy got vaccinated started having seizures within a day and was then diagnosed with autism. Just got home from the hospital last week after almost dying to to complications from all the seizures. Received some additional brain damage as well. One more personal story is that my cousins daughter got the hpv vaccinations and now her motor skills are all off whack and she struggles to piece together a coherent sentence. I'm not anti vaccinations but I would wager my life they were the cause of these ailments. In my opinion it is more foolish to not recognize the potential danger of vaccinations than it is to be a anti vaccination person. Phone Post 3.0
9/10/16 11:30 AM
8/15/11
Posts: 379
Haven't seen anything too convincing against vaccines but the lack of questioning is indicative of the heard mentality.

Doctors misdiagnose all the time with figures in the 10 to 40 percent region. They follow guidelines and have training but it's rare to find doctors that rely on actual experience. Most follow guidelines that shift. Cancer prognosis is guesswork which is often wrong. Doctors understand physiological impact of foods but don't necessarily understand food. Government guidelines have changed on all sorts of things including eggs fats etc.

Commercial implications drive medical research. Insurance makes doctors perform unnecessary operations.

Science is a buzzword used missing the point of what science is. Health care is probably something that will change drastically over the next century as more things are seen as psychosomatic or diet related and people have access to more information. Let's not even get started on addictions or mental illness fuelled by doctors. Guidelines often prescribe medications with suicidal tendencies as a side effect. I have direct personal experience of this and this is not the fault of doctors but the system is designed this way.

Vaccines appear to work from what modern medicine suggests therefore it's the likely best thing but to deny people the right to question it due to some as yet undiscovered effects in the name of science is extreme imo because science in relation to health is and will continue to constantly change. Predicting health effects is akin to Predicting the weather for more than 3 days at . Science exists to make an educated guess but it is a guess.

This doesn't mean avoid doctors but medicate or have an operation after a significant amount of thought and with more than one educated opinion.

There's a fuckload of kids in the world that don't take Vaccines that will never get sick. There's loads that will die because of not having had it.

Good diet and exercise along with a non abusive upbringing may well impact the immune system in such a way that you'll be prepared for most of life throws at you like diabetes cancers high BP heart issues life expectancy etc. Science will take a couple of centuries to understand that but yea instead let's all fight about Vaccines because rubella is a huge problem in the developed world and fat kids aren't. Phone Post 3.0
9/10/16 11:31 AM
8/15/11
Posts: 380
Couple of typos there but perils of writing from a phone Phone Post 3.0
9/10/16 5:58 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 20194
Correlation does not equal causation. These anecdotes listed above are bs. It is established fact that vaccines have nothing to do with autism. Saying it is, is the type of thing someone should be embarrassed to do. Phone Post 3.0
9/10/16 6:07 PM
6/3/09
Posts: 5793
shawarma - Haven't seen anything too convincing against vaccines but the lack of questioning is indicative of the heard mentality.

Doctors misdiagnose all the time with figures in the 10 to 40 percent region. They follow guidelines and have training but it's rare to find doctors that rely on actual experience. Most follow guidelines that shift. Cancer prognosis is guesswork which is often wrong. Doctors understand physiological impact of foods but don't necessarily understand food. Government guidelines have changed on all sorts of things including eggs fats etc.

Commercial implications drive medical research. Insurance makes doctors perform unnecessary operations.

Science is a buzzword used missing the point of what science is. Health care is probably something that will change drastically over the next century as more things are seen as psychosomatic or diet related and people have access to more information. Let's not even get started on addictions or mental illness fuelled by doctors. Guidelines often prescribe medications with suicidal tendencies as a side effect. I have direct personal experience of this and this is not the fault of doctors but the system is designed this way.

Vaccines appear to work from what modern medicine suggests therefore it's the likely best thing but to deny people the right to question it due to some as yet undiscovered effects in the name of science is extreme imo because science in relation to health is and will continue to constantly change. Predicting health effects is akin to Predicting the weather for more than 3 days at . Science exists to make an educated guess but it is a guess.

This doesn't mean avoid doctors but medicate or have an operation after a significant amount of thought and with more than one educated opinion.

There's a fuckload of kids in the world that don't take Vaccines that will never get sick. There's loads that will die because of not having had it.

Good diet and exercise along with a non abusive upbringing may well impact the immune system in such a way that you'll be prepared for most of life throws at you like diabetes cancers high BP heart issues life expectancy etc. Science will take a couple of centuries to understand that but yea instead let's all fight about Vaccines because rubella is a huge problem in the developed world and fat kids aren't. Phone Post 3.0
So you're a couple centuries ahead of science and medicine?

Where's my warp drive motherfucker? Phone Post 3.0