OtherGround Forums Anybody Remember Climate Change?

19 days ago
11/21/19
Posts: 2519

Would the deniers please explain why most of the world's glaciers, ice caps and winter freezing of the oceans has declined so dramatically in the last 50 years? I'd be happy to read a logical explanation other than the climate is getting warmer.

19 days ago
6/1/07
Posts: 23054
Revenants - 

Would the deniers please explain why most of the world's glaciers, ice caps and winter freezing of the oceans has declined so dramatically in the last 50 years? I'd be happy to read a logical explanation other than the climate is getting warmer.


We are living in an interglacial period of an ice age. That means glaciers are melting, and have been doing so for the better part of 10,000 years.

Getting worked up over the last 150 years of warming since one of the worst cold snaps of the past 1000 years (the Little Ice Age) is ridiculous. Global temperatures in the early 1800s were some of the lowest since the dawn of human civilization. Of course it is warmer today. It still isn't nearly as warm today though as it was during the Roman or Medieval warm periods, or even as recently as the 1930s.

The funny thing is, what we really need to be worried about long-term is global cooling. Despite the warming over the last 150 years, the overall trend over the last 3,000 years is STEEPLY downward. Every 'warm period' over the last 2,000 years has been cooler than the last one. The one we are in right now is no different.

Here is a graph of ice core data showing temperatures over the last 10,000 years.

https://i1.wp.com/wattsupwiththat.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/screenshot-2019-11-20-at-17.57.06.png?resize=700%2C457&ssl=1

The warming trend we are currently in is that last bar off to the right. That graph should scare the piss out of people, because while global warming might be a slight-to-moderate problem over the next couple of hundred years from a species survival perspective, the longer-term cooling trend is a potential extinction level event. If bronze-age humans could survive the Minoan warm period, we can survive ours. But if we lapse back into a glacial period (which seems likely in the long-term), we are all fucked.
19 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 64888

Poor greta,  he income has been hirt by Covid,  but she has a new gig bitching about the virus now.

19 days ago
11/9/04
Posts: 11203


How dare you!
19 days ago
11/21/19
Posts: 2520
Steve4192 -
Revenants - 

Would the deniers please explain why most of the world's glaciers, ice caps and winter freezing of the oceans has declined so dramatically in the last 50 years? I'd be happy to read a logical explanation other than the climate is getting warmer.


We are living in an interglacial period of an ice age. That means glaciers are melting, and have been doing so for the better part of 10,000 years.

Getting worked up over the last 150 years of warming since one of the worst cold snaps of the past 1000 years (the Little Ice Age) is ridiculous. Global temperatures in the early 1800s were some of the lowest since the dawn of human civilization. Of course it is warmer today. It still isn't nearly as warm today though as it was during the Roman or Medieval warm periods, or even as recently as the 1930s.

The funny thing is, what we really need to be worried about long-term is global cooling. Despite the warming over the last 150 years, the overall trend over the last 3,000 years is STEEPLY downward. Every 'warm period' over the last 2,000 years has been cooler than the last one. The one we are in right now is no different.

Here is a graph of ice core data showing temperatures over the last 10,000 years.

https://i1.wp.com/wattsupwiththat.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/screenshot-2019-11-20-at-17.57.06.png?resize=700%2C457&ssl=1

The warming trend we are currently in is that last bar off to the right. That graph should scare the piss out of people, because while global warming might be a slight-to-moderate problem over the next couple of hundred years from a species survival perspective, the longer-term cooling trend is a potential extinction level event. If bronze-age humans could survive the Minoan warm period, we can survive ours. But if we lapse back into a glacial period (which seems likely in the long-term), we are all fucked.

 Your post doesn't really explain the uncharacteristic overall "heat snap" of the last 150 years. I'm not getting "worked up", I'm looking at figures and physical glaciation decline.

C&P:

One of the most often cited arguments of those skeptical of global warming is that the Medieval Warm Period (800-1400 AD) was as warm as or warmer than today. Using this as proof to say that we cannot be causing current warming is a faulty notion based upon rhetoric rather than science. So what are the holes in this line of thinking?

Firstly, evidence suggests that the Medieval Warm Period may have been warmer than today in many parts of the globe such as in the North Atlantic. This warming thereby allowed Vikings to travel further north than had been previously possible because of reductions in sea ice and land ice in the Arctic. However, evidence also suggests that some places were very much cooler than today including the tropical pacific. All in all, when the warm places are averaged out with the cool places, it becomes clear that the overall warmth was likely similar to early to mid 20th century warming.

Since that early century warming, temperatures have risen well-beyond those achieved during the Medieval Warm Period across most of the globe.  The National Academy of Sciences Report on Climate Reconstructions in 2006 found it plausible that current temperatures are hotter than during the Medieval Warm Period.  Further evidence obtained since 2006 suggests that even in the Northern Hemisphere where the Medieval Warm Period was the most visible, temperatures are now beyond those experienced during Medieval times  (Figure 1).  This was also confirmed by a major paper from 78 scientists representing 60 scientific institutions around the world in 2013.

Secondly, the Medieval Warm Period has known causes which explain both the scale of the warmth and the pattern. It has now become clear to scientists that the Medieval Warm Period occurred during a time which had higher than average solar radiation and less volcanic activity (both resulting in warming). New evidence is also suggesting that changes in ocean circulation patterns played a very important role in bringing warmer seawater into the North Atlantic. This explains much of the extraordinary warmth in that region. These causes of warming contrast significantly with today's warming, which we know cannot be caused by the same mechanisms.

Overall, our conclusions are:

a) Globally temperatures are warmer than they have been during the last 2,000 years, and

b) the causes of Medieval warming are not the same as those causing late 20th century warming.

Edited: 19 days ago
1/25/07
Posts: 3952
Steve4192 -
Revenants - 

Would the deniers please explain why most of the world's glaciers, ice caps and winter freezing of the oceans has declined so dramatically in the last 50 years? I'd be happy to read a logical explanation other than the climate is getting warmer.


We are living in an interglacial period of an ice age. That means glaciers are melting, and have been doing so for the better part of 10,000 years.

Getting worked up over the last 150 years of warming since one of the worst cold snaps of the past 1000 years (the Little Ice Age) is ridiculous. Global temperatures in the early 1800s were some of the lowest since the dawn of human civilization. Of course it is warmer today. It still isn't nearly as warm today though as it was during the Roman or Medieval warm periods, or even as recently as the 1930s.

The funny thing is, what we really need to be worried about long-term is global cooling. Despite the warming over the last 150 years, the overall trend over the last 3,000 years is STEEPLY downward. Every 'warm period' over the last 2,000 years has been cooler than the last one. The one we are in right now is no different.

Here is a graph of ice core data showing temperatures over the last 10,000 years.

https://i1.wp.com/wattsupwiththat.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/screenshot-2019-11-20-at-17.57.06.png?resize=700%2C457&ssl=1

The warming trend we are currently in is that last bar off to the right. That graph should scare the piss out of people, because while global warming might be a slight-to-moderate problem over the next couple of hundred years from a species survival perspective, the longer-term cooling trend is a potential extinction level event. If bronze-age humans could survive the Minoan warm period, we can survive ours. But if we lapse back into a glacial period (which seems likely in the long-term), we are all fucked.

No. Not even close. This post is super depressing to me because you are smart enough to know better. Once we cross the tipping point none of it matters.

 

Why do you think thousands of scientists would coordinate research to lie about something so important?

19 days ago
4/13/12
Posts: 35890
Thelonious -
Steve4192 -
Revenants - 

Would the deniers please explain why most of the world's glaciers, ice caps and winter freezing of the oceans has declined so dramatically in the last 50 years? I'd be happy to read a logical explanation other than the climate is getting warmer.


We are living in an interglacial period of an ice age. That means glaciers are melting, and have been doing so for the better part of 10,000 years.

Getting worked up over the last 150 years of warming since one of the worst cold snaps of the past 1000 years (the Little Ice Age) is ridiculous. Global temperatures in the early 1800s were some of the lowest since the dawn of human civilization. Of course it is warmer today. It still isn't nearly as warm today though as it was during the Roman or Medieval warm periods, or even as recently as the 1930s.

The funny thing is, what we really need to be worried about long-term is global cooling. Despite the warming over the last 150 years, the overall trend over the last 3,000 years is STEEPLY downward. Every 'warm period' over the last 2,000 years has been cooler than the last one. The one we are in right now is no different.

Here is a graph of ice core data showing temperatures over the last 10,000 years.

https://i1.wp.com/wattsupwiththat.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/screenshot-2019-11-20-at-17.57.06.png?resize=700%2C457&ssl=1

The warming trend we are currently in is that last bar off to the right. That graph should scare the piss out of people, because while global warming might be a slight-to-moderate problem over the next couple of hundred years from a species survival perspective, the longer-term cooling trend is a potential extinction level event. If bronze-age humans could survive the Minoan warm period, we can survive ours. But if we lapse back into a glacial period (which seems likely in the long-term), we are all fucked.

No. Not even close. This post is super depressing to me because you are smart enough to know better. Once we cross the tipping point none of it matters.

 

Why do you think thousands of scientists would coordinate research to lie about something so important?

this.  i usually agree with him.  he's one of the smarter posters here.  this one surprises me.

19 days ago
6/1/07
Posts: 23055
Thelonious - 
Steve4192 -
Revenants - 

Would the deniers please explain why most of the world's glaciers, ice caps and winter freezing of the oceans has declined so dramatically in the last 50 years? I'd be happy to read a logical explanation other than the climate is getting warmer.


We are living in an interglacial period of an ice age. That means glaciers are melting, and have been doing so for the better part of 10,000 years.

Getting worked up over the last 150 years of warming since one of the worst cold snaps of the past 1000 years (the Little Ice Age) is ridiculous. Global temperatures in the early 1800s were some of the lowest since the dawn of human civilization. Of course it is warmer today. It still isn't nearly as warm today though as it was during the Roman or Medieval warm periods, or even as recently as the 1930s.

The funny thing is, what we really need to be worried about long-term is global cooling. Despite the warming over the last 150 years, the overall trend over the last 3,000 years is STEEPLY downward. Every 'warm period' over the last 2,000 years has been cooler than the last one. The one we are in right now is no different.

Here is a graph of ice core data showing temperatures over the last 10,000 years.

https://i1.wp.com/wattsupwiththat.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/screenshot-2019-11-20-at-17.57.06.png?resize=700%2C457&ssl=1

The warming trend we are currently in is that last bar off to the right. That graph should scare the piss out of people, because while global warming might be a slight-to-moderate problem over the next couple of hundred years from a species survival perspective, the longer-term cooling trend is a potential extinction level event. If bronze-age humans could survive the Minoan warm period, we can survive ours. But if we lapse back into a glacial period (which seems likely in the long-term), we are all fucked.

No. Not even close. This post is super depressing to me because you are smart enough to know better. Once we cross the tipping point none of it matters.

 

Why do you think thousands of scientists would coordinate research to lie about something so important?


Money and status

Skeptical research doesn't get funding. Alarmist research does. Skeptical scientists get ostracized and face constant public pressure to fire them from their jobs. Alarmist scientists get celebrated by the press and academia, as well as lucrative speaking gigs and think tank positions.

Also, I wouldn't say they are LYING. I would say they are blinkered to the longer-term perspective. They have little curiosity about the geological history of the planet that shows unequivocally that it goes through periods of extreme heat, extreme cold, and a whole bunch of in-between. They ignore that life (even prior to the rise of humanity) has flourished during those warm periods and suffered/dwindled immensely during cold periods. They are laser focused on 1850-2100 and everything else falls by the wayside.

Lastly, even though I think most natural scientists are operating in good faith (not so sure about the mathematical modelers and data scientists), I can't say the same about the media and climate activists. They CONSTANTLY trumpet alarmist takes that don't represent the actual science. Read the IPCC reports from the scientists and you will get a MUCH less apocalyptic take on climate change than what you read in the media. They are constantly having to call bullshit on media and activist claims about how the world is going to end in 12 years or billions are going to die in the next century. Unfortunately, the alarmist takes are always front page news and dominate social media, while the scientific rebuttals are mostly ignored. In fact, most people who refer to those rebuttals are immediately tarred as 'deniers'.

As far as tipping points go and humanity's ability to cause them, I believe that is alarmist twaddle that is used to explain away the mountains of data that says warming will be slow and steady and within our ability to adapt to. There is absolutely no data to back 'tipping points' up. It's all based on mathematical modeling and theory, not hard scientific observation. The last 'tipping point' was 10K years ago when we entered this inter-glacial period and oceans rose a few hundred feet. I think it is more likely we see a tipping point in the opposite direction (into another glacial period) from natural causes than we see a man-made one into a hothouse earth scenario.


Do I think mankind is impacting the climate? Quite possibly, maybe even probably.

Do I think that a few extra degrees warming is an existential problem for humanity? No. We have adapted to similar warming trends in the past with vastly inferior technology. Plus, unlike our ancestors, we are in much better position to take advantage of the BENEFITS of warming (such as global greening). We'll be fine.
19 days ago
6/1/07
Posts: 23056
One of my favorite alarmist takes is that pacific islands will be inundated by rising oceans and millions will be drown. The reality is those islands are growing not shrinking, because the coral they are based on is growing faster than the seas are rising.

Heck, even if a 'tipping point' does happen to cause oceans to rise faster than the coral can build, it's still unlikely people would die. These things don't happen overnight. They would have decades/centuries to respond. First, they'd try to adapt and build a system of dykes and pumps to continue to live below sea level just like the Netherlands do. Then if that didn't hold off the rising seas, they'd just emigrate. If the ancient stone-age inhabitants of Doggerland (what we refer to today as the English channel) could manage to pick up and move their shit 8,000 years ago and avoid being swamped, I'm pretty sure the residents of Tuvalu can manage the same using 21st century technology.
3 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 4245
Steve4192 - 
Thelonious - 
Steve4192 -
Revenants - 

Would the deniers please explain why most of the world's glaciers, ice caps and winter freezing of the oceans has declined so dramatically in the last 50 years? I'd be happy to read a logical explanation other than the climate is getting warmer.


We are living in an interglacial period of an ice age. That means glaciers are melting, and have been doing so for the better part of 10,000 years.

Getting worked up over the last 150 years of warming since one of the worst cold snaps of the past 1000 years (the Little Ice Age) is ridiculous. Global temperatures in the early 1800s were some of the lowest since the dawn of human civilization. Of course it is warmer today. It still isn't nearly as warm today though as it was during the Roman or Medieval warm periods, or even as recently as the 1930s.

The funny thing is, what we really need to be worried about long-term is global cooling. Despite the warming over the last 150 years, the overall trend over the last 3,000 years is STEEPLY downward. Every 'warm period' over the last 2,000 years has been cooler than the last one. The one we are in right now is no different.

Here is a graph of ice core data showing temperatures over the last 10,000 years.

https://i1.wp.com/wattsupwiththat.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/screenshot-2019-11-20-at-17.57.06.png?resize=700%2C457&ssl=1

The warming trend we are currently in is that last bar off to the right. That graph should scare the piss out of people, because while global warming might be a slight-to-moderate problem over the next couple of hundred years from a species survival perspective, the longer-term cooling trend is a potential extinction level event. If bronze-age humans could survive the Minoan warm period, we can survive ours. But if we lapse back into a glacial period (which seems likely in the long-term), we are all fucked.

No. Not even close. This post is super depressing to me because you are smart enough to know better. Once we cross the tipping point none of it matters.

 

Why do you think thousands of scientists would coordinate research to lie about something so important?


Money and status

Skeptical research doesn't get funding. Alarmist research does. Skeptical scientists get ostracized and face constant public pressure to fire them from their jobs. Alarmist scientists get celebrated by the press and academia, as well as lucrative speaking gigs and think tank positions.

Also, I wouldn't say they are LYING. I would say they are blinkered to the longer-term perspective. They have little curiosity about the geological history of the planet that shows unequivocally that it goes through periods of extreme heat, extreme cold, and a whole bunch of in-between. They ignore that life (even prior to the rise of humanity) has flourished during those warm periods and suffered/dwindled immensely during cold periods. They are laser focused on 1850-2100 and everything else falls by the wayside.

Lastly, even though I think most natural scientists are operating in good faith (not so sure about the mathematical modelers and data scientists), I can't say the same about the media and climate activists. They CONSTANTLY trumpet alarmist takes that don't represent the actual science. Read the IPCC reports from the scientists and you will get a MUCH less apocalyptic take on climate change than what you read in the media. They are constantly having to call bullshit on media and activist claims about how the world is going to end in 12 years or billions are going to die in the next century. Unfortunately, the alarmist takes are always front page news and dominate social media, while the scientific rebuttals are mostly ignored. In fact, most people who refer to those rebuttals are immediately tarred as 'deniers'.

As far as tipping points go and humanity's ability to cause them, I believe that is alarmist twaddle that is used to explain away the mountains of data that says warming will be slow and steady and within our ability to adapt to. There is absolutely no data to back 'tipping points' up. It's all based on mathematical modeling and theory, not hard scientific observation. The last 'tipping point' was 10K years ago when we entered this inter-glacial period and oceans rose a few hundred feet. I think it is more likely we see a tipping point in the opposite direction (into another glacial period) from natural causes than we see a man-made one into a hothouse earth scenario.


Do I think mankind is impacting the climate? Quite possibly, maybe even probably.

Do I think that a few extra degrees warming is an existential problem for humanity? No. We have adapted to similar warming trends in the past with vastly inferior technology. Plus, unlike our ancestors, we are in much better position to take advantage of the BENEFITS of warming (such as global greening). We'll be fine.

Steve1492

lmmfao...your post is full of so much bullshit it's comical. Congrats on exposing your stupidity...
3 days ago
9/19/13
Posts: 9448

CLIMATE CHANGES. IMAGINE THAT. WOWWWW. HISTORY.

3 days ago
8/20/03
Posts: 3792

How do we save the planet!! You don’t, this planet will be just like Venus eventually. 
 

Until then, STEM for the smart kids and trades for the rest of us. Or we could just worry about Beyoncé and jay z.

3 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 65165

What does greta have to say about this?

3 days ago
11/18/15
Posts: 7303

one thing I know for sure about climate change

taxes will fix it

3 days ago
4/13/12
Posts: 36399
Steve4192 -
EFM - 

Less people traveling.  Read that air quality has improved dramatically in most cities around the world.  Maybe COVID is the planets way of fixing the problem.


Yet despite the massive drop in human CO2 emissions, atmospheric CO2 continues to rise unabated. One might come to the conclusion that the whole story of human emissions driving atmospheric CO2 levels is a bunch of malarkey.

Not sure you can conclude that yet.  All that's been observed is that air quality is better.

Edited: 3 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 38595

I've noticed most restaurants have quietly gone back to plastic straws, too. Whenever I get food to go, there's always a plastic straw in there.
2 days ago
12/13/02
Posts: 5253

If the warming is caused by “man” (I’m not saying it is or isn’t) via fossil fuel burning, factories, etc, and the solution is more “green” tech, then my problem is this: The warming began in the late 1800’s. Wouldn’t then we would have to reduce our carbon footprint to pre 1880 levels, before the industrial revolution and when the population was 1/10th of what it is now? How do we accomplish this? 

2 days ago
11/20/13
Posts: 10740
ribz -

If the warming is caused by “man” (I’m not saying it is or isn’t) via fossil fuel burning, factories, etc, and the solution is more “green” tech, then my problem is this: The warming began in the late 1800’s. Wouldn’t then we would have to reduce our carbon footprint to pre 1880 levels, before the industrial revolution and when the population was 1/10th of what it is now? How do we accomplish this? 

Probably with technology. For example, alternative fuel sources that weren't available in 1880.

2 days ago
3/1/13
Posts: 4994
ribz -

If the warming is caused by “man” (I’m not saying it is or isn’t) via fossil fuel burning, factories, etc, and the solution is more “green” tech, then my problem is this: The warming began in the late 1800’s. Wouldn’t then we would have to reduce our carbon footprint to pre 1880 levels, before the industrial revolution and when the population was 1/10th of what it is now? How do we accomplish this? 

With a virus.....

2 days ago
3/1/13
Posts: 4995

You know what thrives in a warm, CO2 rich atmosphere? Trees and plants....why does Greta hate trees so much?

2 days ago
11/9/10
Posts: 71857
SD CARTEL -
pbody -

It will become a thing again when it's needed. Just like Trump's taxes and Russia. When there's no scandal or big event to talk about they'll go back to pushing the old stuff.

 

Never ending crisis to leverage the changes they want that really never end.

Yup. The solutions they propose for climate change are always the same, massive government control. Never actually viable solutions to carbon based energy. It’s all pipe dreams and government control. 

2 days ago
11/27/02
Posts: 18807
'Climate Change' is is still here, but 'Racial Justice' has now been attached to it.
2 days ago
4/9/16
Posts: 2962

Can we keep the focus on the caged kids at the border, please? 

 

Jesus fuck people. REAL problems. 

2 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 38601
supersonic - 'Climate Change' is is still here, but 'Racial Justice' has now been attached to it.

I call it "Glacial Justice".
Edited: 2 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 51717
EFM - 

Less people traveling.  Read that air quality has improved dramatically in most cities around the world.  Maybe COVID is the planets way of fixing the problem.

 

There's still a lot of carbon and toxins being pumped into the atmosphere from the George Floyd riots.

But I'm sure a study will come out soon proving that BLM riots actually reduce carbon emissions and are environmentally friendly lol