OtherGround Forums Anybody Remember Climate Change?

2 days ago
1/25/04
Posts: 136012

It's been a thing for billions of years.

Edited: 2 days ago
9/1/04
Posts: 26923
ribz - 

If the warming is caused by "man" (I'm not saying it is or isn't) via fossil fuel burning, factories, etc, and the solution is more "green" tech, then my problem is this: The warming began in the late 1800's. Wouldn't then we would have to reduce our carbon footprint to pre 1880 levels, before the industrial revolution and when the population was 1/10th of what it is now? How do we accomplish this? 


Well the obvious solution would be to have the countries that have worked the hardest and been the most succesfull in cleaning up the environment sign a treaty that is an economic suicide pact and cede world economic hegemony to the worst environmental polluters. /s
2 days ago
9/19/13
Posts: 9470
Jack Carter -

It's been a thing for billions of years.

I swear I feel like I'm living in the twilight zone sometimes.

2 days ago
8/22/13
Posts: 1406
Steve4192 -
Thelonious - 
Steve4192 -
Revenants - 

Would the deniers please explain why most of the world's glaciers, ice caps and winter freezing of the oceans has declined so dramatically in the last 50 years? I'd be happy to read a logical explanation other than the climate is getting warmer.


We are living in an interglacial period of an ice age. That means glaciers are melting, and have been doing so for the better part of 10,000 years.

Getting worked up over the last 150 years of warming since one of the worst cold snaps of the past 1000 years (the Little Ice Age) is ridiculous. Global temperatures in the early 1800s were some of the lowest since the dawn of human civilization. Of course it is warmer today. It still isn't nearly as warm today though as it was during the Roman or Medieval warm periods, or even as recently as the 1930s.

The funny thing is, what we really need to be worried about long-term is global cooling. Despite the warming over the last 150 years, the overall trend over the last 3,000 years is STEEPLY downward. Every 'warm period' over the last 2,000 years has been cooler than the last one. The one we are in right now is no different.

Here is a graph of ice core data showing temperatures over the last 10,000 years.

https://i1.wp.com/wattsupwiththat.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/screenshot-2019-11-20-at-17.57.06.png?resize=700%2C457&ssl=1

The warming trend we are currently in is that last bar off to the right. That graph should scare the piss out of people, because while global warming might be a slight-to-moderate problem over the next couple of hundred years from a species survival perspective, the longer-term cooling trend is a potential extinction level event. If bronze-age humans could survive the Minoan warm period, we can survive ours. But if we lapse back into a glacial period (which seems likely in the long-term), we are all fucked.

No. Not even close. This post is super depressing to me because you are smart enough to know better. Once we cross the tipping point none of it matters.

 

Why do you think thousands of scientists would coordinate research to lie about something so important?


Money and status

Skeptical research doesn't get funding. Alarmist research does. Skeptical scientists get ostracized and face constant public pressure to fire them from their jobs. Alarmist scientists get celebrated by the press and academia, as well as lucrative speaking gigs and think tank positions.

Also, I wouldn't say they are LYING. I would say they are blinkered to the longer-term perspective. They have little curiosity about the geological history of the planet that shows unequivocally that it goes through periods of extreme heat, extreme cold, and a whole bunch of in-between. They ignore that life (even prior to the rise of humanity) has flourished during those warm periods and suffered/dwindled immensely during cold periods. They are laser focused on 1850-2100 and everything else falls by the wayside.

Lastly, even though I think most natural scientists are operating in good faith (not so sure about the mathematical modelers and data scientists), I can't say the same about the media and climate activists. They CONSTANTLY trumpet alarmist takes that don't represent the actual science. Read the IPCC reports from the scientists and you will get a MUCH less apocalyptic take on climate change than what you read in the media. They are constantly having to call bullshit on media and activist claims about how the world is going to end in 12 years or billions are going to die in the next century. Unfortunately, the alarmist takes are always front page news and dominate social media, while the scientific rebuttals are mostly ignored. In fact, most people who refer to those rebuttals are immediately tarred as 'deniers'.

As far as tipping points go and humanity's ability to cause them, I believe that is alarmist twaddle that is used to explain away the mountains of data that says warming will be slow and steady and within our ability to adapt to. There is absolutely no data to back 'tipping points' up. It's all based on mathematical modeling and theory, not hard scientific observation. The last 'tipping point' was 10K years ago when we entered this inter-glacial period and oceans rose a few hundred feet. I think it is more likely we see a tipping point in the opposite direction (into another glacial period) from natural causes than we see a man-made one into a hothouse earth scenario.


Do I think mankind is impacting the climate? Quite possibly, maybe even probably.

Do I think that a few extra degrees warming is an existential problem for humanity? No. We have adapted to similar warming trends in the past with vastly inferior technology. Plus, unlike our ancestors, we are in much better position to take advantage of the BENEFITS of warming (such as global greening). We'll be fine.

/thread

Well said 

2 days ago
7/13/09
Posts: 23941
Revenants -

Would the deniers please explain why most of the world's glaciers, ice caps and winter freezing of the oceans has declined so dramatically in the last 50 years? I'd be happy to read a logical explanation other than the climate is getting warmer.

Indeed climate changes , at I one point there was a ice age.  

2 days ago
3/18/02
Posts: 94713

or muslim extremists? 

in an instant, the worst thing on the planet became the faggot crybabies of the left 

funny how that happened

2 days ago
6/1/07
Posts: 23114
sewich - 
Revenants -

Would the deniers please explain why most of the world's glaciers, ice caps and winter freezing of the oceans has declined so dramatically in the last 50 years? I'd be happy to read a logical explanation other than the climate is getting warmer.

Indeed climate changes , at I one point there was a ice age.  


We're still in an ice age, hence all the worrying about the massive polar ice caps melting and flooding the planet. We're just in an inter-glacial period Goldilocks-zone where most of the earth's land mass is neither submerged below solid water (glaciers) nor submerged beneath liquid water (oceans). It's been 'just right' for the last 10-12 thousand years, but it won't stay that way forever, regardless of what we fleas on the earth's back do.
2 days ago
1/25/04
Posts: 136019
Steve4192 - 
sewich - 
Revenants -

Would the deniers please explain why most of the world's glaciers, ice caps and winter freezing of the oceans has declined so dramatically in the last 50 years? I'd be happy to read a logical explanation other than the climate is getting warmer.

Indeed climate changes , at I one point there was a ice age.  


We're still in an ice age, hence all the worrying about the massive polar ice caps melting and flooding the planet. We're just in an inter-glacial period Goldilocks-zone where most of the earth's land mass is neither submerged below solid water (glaciers) nor submerged beneath liquid water (oceans). It's been 'just right' for the last 10-12 thousand years, but it won't stay that way forever, regardless of what we fleas on the earth's back do.

The irony is that if we are soon plunged into another ice age, we'd have to start pumping CO2 into the atmosphere to stop the death and destruction of habitat that will quickly unfold. Heating the planet a little is peanuts compared to what happens when much of the planet freezes over