OtherGround Forums BLM = Demonic African Cult

9/5/20 3:23 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 1402
HELWIG - 

"You have Christians who believe differing things who all have equal right to claim the name Christian."

and thats where youre wrong

a Christian who supports abortion and sexual promiscuity is simply a modern American who is culturally Christian by upbringing.

their faith doesnt trump whats currently convenient socially.

 


Helwig,

I am not wrong about what I said, which is that Christians of differing camps believe different things with equal authenticity. And I know you can't prove that I am wrong. My argument is evidenced by the numerous isms and schisms within the faith.

I would add to my argument the notion “equal authenticity with respect to interpreting scripture to make a doctrinal argument.” I add the foregoing because Christianity has a major hermeneutic problem. In addition, it is very clear that nearly all Christians have a “cultural convenience component.” A good example is the roles of women noted in the NT and how many of those roles are at odds with some of the egalitarian values most of us share today.

Do you sit under a woman pastor by chance? If you do, how to justify that practice Biblically? If you don’t, what do think about others who do?

Finally, you picked abortion and sexual promiscuity as examples of why I am “wrong,” but I didn’t bring any of those things up. Christianity has far bigger problems than those two issues which contributes to its lack of credibility as a religion.
9/6/20 3:50 PM
3/17/03
Posts: 18803
salsero - Onikage,

I 100% follow what you are saying. I just don’t agree with your assessment of the problem which is – in essence “other religions” like Ifa are being used to facilitate a spiritual battle against the “good guys” of Christianity. I think this is bullshit, as the spiritual battle, as it were, includes Christianity as one of the problems. I also think Christianity itself has become so legalistic and self-righteous to the point where deluding spirits abound within the faith. I believe one can make a good argument that the Bible teaches these deluding spirits are sent by God.

One of the issues in this dialog is that you seem to have a unilateral Christian worldview which makes you lack objectivity about your beliefs to the point where you wanna straw man other religions (in general) and necromancy (in particular). Your argument is basically “Old Testament scriptures say no necromancy. Ifa features necromancy. BLM sucks! BLM uses some Ifa-derived ritual akin to necromancy. tReeeeeeeee! But at the same time, you see no room for critique of your worldview.

For example, you fail to acknowledge that “praying to Jesus” is a form of necromancy if you believe that he was an actual living person whose shedding of blood serves as an offering to atone for sin i.e. a blood magic ritual. You critique Ifa for its use of necromancy to commune with ancestral spirits, but you condone communing with the spirit of Jesus. Your theological worldwide prevents you from seeing your religions for what it is. This is one of the reasons Jews and Muslims don’t accept Christianity, as they (1) Are disgusted by the idea of human sacrifice; and (2) Don’t condone necromancy – notwithstanding the fact that they don’t believe that a human can be “God.”

Moreover, you completely ignore the fact that Christianity today has all kinds of shapes and forms. Do you think churches which allow women preachers, women to speak in church, women to serve as leaders, over men, etc. are aligning with the Bible?

You asked for an example of Christian subjectivity causing chaos. I’ll give you two more examples – one which was given previously (which you seemed to miss) and a new one.

Previous example: Consider BLM supporters who are Christian and BLM supporters who are not Christian. Members of both camps have differing interoperations of the Bible, theology, etc. Members of both camps accuse the other of not being true Christians. A BLM-supporting Christian would say “a real Christian would take a stand against racism. Jesus was a SJW.” A BLM-opposing Christian would say “just look at BLM’s Marxism, critical race theory, and necromancy. A real Christian would have no part of that.” The result: tribalism, accusations, chaos, and the minimizing of Christian credibility as a source of morality, for morality is in the eye of the beholder as it relates to their interpretation of Christianity.

New example: Some Christians believe that the USA is Babylon the great. Others believe that the USA is God’s chosen “good guy” country. Babylon-types believe that destruction from within and without is coming (with BLM-type stuff representing that destruction.) Good-guy types believe they’re fighting to save God’s land.

Finally, disagree if you wish, but I’ll continue to argue Christian delusion (both nationalistic as well as the illusion of absolute truth) is indeed the problem. Christianity can’t get its act together. The Christian house is made of glass, and most of its occupants love to throw stones.

I appreciate the discussion but again, you simply aren't getting what I'm saying.

Replace Christianity with Hinduism and Ifa with Islam if you'd like. It doesn't matter. My point is that proliferation of these ideas is being used as a weapon.
They're used to subvert and oppose existing culture - to capture the youth, mind and spirit, and dismantle communities.
This isn't new by any means. Waring cultures have always made a point to capture the mind and souls of their opponents by imposing new beliefs and religion upon them. This is all very basic stuff.

Now onto Christian chaos:
Your example is this thread basically? Men naturally squabble and fall into tribalism. That has nothing to do with the teachings of Christ which are only meant to unify his followers. I'm certainly not the judge of who "real Christians" are. I can only recognize when someone is acting in direct defiance of the teachings of Jesus - like those on the street committing violence and destruction.

Second example is... more worldly tribalism?
This is just age-old human behavior. A massive amount of Nazis believed themselves to be fighting on the side of God. So what?

None of this is evidence of Christianity-spwaned chaos.
"The Christian house" is made of followers of Christ around the world, carrying out their unique individual roles. It's not a governing political force. If you judge it as such, you've already lost the plot.
9/9/20 10:51 AM
3/17/03
Posts: 18829
Murders in the city of Atlanta up 140% since time of protests
https://www.wsbtv.com/news/2-investigates/atlanta-police-activity-drops-murder-rate-increases-2019/WYNQRPG4IZBPVADB46K4S62KT4/

"Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying."
9/12/20 7:53 PM
6/20/13
Posts: 12194


9/13/20 9:49 AM
3/17/03
Posts: 18851
Looney Ronulan Paultard -


Interesting!

9/13/20 9:59 AM
11/28/08
Posts: 24358

Do they practice Yoruba indigenous religion, worship Satan, or are they radical atheists?

9/13/20 2:40 PM
3/17/03
Posts: 18852
anthonyMI - 

Do they practice Yoruba indigenous religion, worship Satan, or are they radical atheists?


The founders? They practice Yorubian Ifa, which is demonic viewed from a Western lens (OUR lens).
It's a more logical version of rebellion compared to that exhibited by the Black Israelites or Nation of Islam.
It's Anti-Westerners attempting to undermine Western culture by introducing conflicting beliefs and spreading them to their followers.

Radical Atheism is more of an Antifa thing, even though the overlap is incredible. I don't know of anyone worshiping Satan, but I'm sure they're out there.

Sarcasm extinguished?
Edited: 9/13/20 2:43 PM
11/28/08
Posts: 24359

Right, so just another example of Christian fundamentalists deciding that any religion that isn't Christianity, and really any religion that isn't your very specific version of Christianity, is actually devil worship. Same as for the previous 2000 years of pogroms, racism, and genocide. Nothing new.

9/13/20 2:54 PM
3/17/03
Posts: 18853
anthonyMI - 

Right, so just another example of Christian fundamentalists deciding that any religion that isn't Christianity, and really any religion that isn't your very specific version of Christianity, is actually devil worship. Same as for the previous 2000 years of pogroms, racism, and genocide. Nothing new.


Right, so just another relativist who is unable to recognize that Christian values guided the Western world to its current status, while ending the slave trade and establishing equality for women. You'll gladly sacrifice all our Christian culture has created for the sake feeding your own resentful ego.

All things white and Western are oppressive and patriarchal. All things brown and foreign are just misunderstood, man!
So what if my son's public school teacher has him summon Mike Brown's spirit into his own meat vessel? It's all just make believe anyways man! What are you, a bigot?!
Edited: 9/13/20 3:02 PM
11/28/08
Posts: 24360
Onikage -
anthonyMI - 

Right, so just another example of Christian fundamentalists deciding that any religion that isn't Christianity, and really any religion that isn't your very specific version of Christianity, is actually devil worship. Same as for the previous 2000 years of pogroms, racism, and genocide. Nothing new.


Right, so just another relativist who is unable to recognize that Christian values guided the Western world to its current status, while ending the slave trade and establishing equality for women. You'll gladly sacrifice all our Christian culture has created for the sake feeding your own resentful ego.

All things white and Western are oppressive and patriarchal. All things brown and foreign are just misunderstood, man!
So what if my son's public school teacher has him summon Mike Brown's spirit into his own meat vessel? It's all just make believe anyways man! What are you, a bigot?!

Usually when someone tries to make that argument, they are supposed to bring up how The West has put aside superstition and petty religious sectarianism.

The bloodthirsty Crusader who wants to purge the heretic and the unbeliever doesn't fit into that image very well. That part of Christian culture would be better off gone forever.

9/13/20 3:05 PM
3/17/03
Posts: 18854
These discussions are always the most disheartening, because our culturally agreed-upon moral values are slipping through our fingers.
Even if you're not religious - you abandon our Judeo-Christian lens at your children's peril.

Put your own egos to the side and recognize that the vast majority of human beings need concrete rules to abide by which supersede questionable government power.

This "intellectual"-rebellion fuels same relativist thought which is slowly pushing the left to defend pedophilia.
9/13/20 3:10 PM
3/17/03
Posts: 18855
anthonyMI - 
Onikage -
anthonyMI - 

Right, so just another example of Christian fundamentalists deciding that any religion that isn't Christianity, and really any religion that isn't your very specific version of Christianity, is actually devil worship. Same as for the previous 2000 years of pogroms, racism, and genocide. Nothing new.


Right, so just another relativist who is unable to recognize that Christian values guided the Western world to its current status, while ending the slave trade and establishing equality for women. You'll gladly sacrifice all our Christian culture has created for the sake feeding your own resentful ego.

All things white and Western are oppressive and patriarchal. All things brown and foreign are just misunderstood, man!
So what if my son's public school teacher has him summon Mike Brown's spirit into his own meat vessel? It's all just make believe anyways man! What are you, a bigot?!

Usually when someone tries to make that argument, they are supposed to bring up how The West has put aside superstition and petty religious sectarianism.

The bloodthirsty Crusader who wants to purge the heretic and the unbeliever doesn't fit into that image very well. That part of Christian culture would be better off gone forever.


You're unable to even engage with my argument because of your resentment towards Christianity.

Let me ask you this as a temperature check:
In a public school setting, you more comfortable having your wife's son engage in a Christian prayer, or a Yorubian seance?
Edited: 9/13/20 3:14 PM
11/28/08
Posts: 24361

I am religious, but from one of those religions that people who spout off about how everyone is a demon worshipper keeps murdering. It would be nice if you stopped.

Which is why it would also be nice if you kept the phrase "Judeo-Christian" out of your mouth. We tend to be less judgemental about other people's religious beliefs, so don't drag us through the mud with you.

"In a public school setting, you more comfortable having your wife's son engage in a Christian prayer, or a Yorubian seance?"

Preferably neither, but there haven't been many times in history when we have been threatened to either perform a Yoruba prayer or be murdered.

9/13/20 4:02 PM
3/17/03
Posts: 18856
anthonyMI - 

I am religious, but from one of those religions that people who spout off about how everyone is a demon worshipper keeps murdering. It would be nice if you stopped.

Which is why it would also be nice if you kept the phrase "Judeo-Christian" out of your mouth. We tend to be less judgemental about other people's religious beliefs, so don't drag us through the mud with you.

"In a public school setting, you more comfortable having your wife's son engage in a Christian prayer, or a Yorubian seance?"

Preferably neither, but there haven't been many times in history when we have been threatened to either perform a Yoruba prayer or be murdered.


I feel like I'm having a conversation with a collection of bumper stickers. Are you attempting to make an argument here?

Also, I love when someone answers "neither!" to a "which would you rather" question. It's the easiest indicator that you're dealing with a neutered individual, uninterested in exploring ideas.
Edited: 9/13/20 4:10 PM
11/28/08
Posts: 24363

"I feel like I'm having a conversation with a collection of bumper stickers. Are you attempting to make an argument here?"

Right, compared to the soaring intellectual rigor of calling people with the wrong religion demon worshippers. You know, that thing that ISIS did to the Yazidi just a few years ago in order to justify massacring, enslaving, and mass raping them. But you, you are doing it in a much more civilized and justified way so it is fine.

"Also, I love when someone answers "neither!" to a "which would you rather" question. It's the easiest indicator that you're dealing with a neutered individual, uninterested in exploring ideas."

I thought I was pretty clear. The Yoruba ritual would be preferable. At least they are a blank slate when it comes to people like me. You, on the other hand, have a pretty clear record of what you mean when you force your religion on us. It is pretty clear what yet another Torquemeda will do.

9/13/20 4:25 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 13915

Sub

9/13/20 4:27 PM
5/22/15
Posts: 11491

9/13/20 4:41 PM
6/24/08
Posts: 755
Onikage - 
anthonyMI - 
Onikage -
anthonyMI - 

Right, so just another example of Christian fundamentalists deciding that any religion that isn't Christianity, and really any religion that isn't your very specific version of Christianity, is actually devil worship. Same as for the previous 2000 years of pogroms, racism, and genocide. Nothing new.


Right, so just another relativist who is unable to recognize that Christian values guided the Western world to its current status, while ending the slave trade and establishing equality for women. You'll gladly sacrifice all our Christian culture has created for the sake feeding your own resentful ego.

All things white and Western are oppressive and patriarchal. All things brown and foreign are just misunderstood, man!
So what if my son's public school teacher has him summon Mike Brown's spirit into his own meat vessel? It's all just make believe anyways man! What are you, a bigot?!

Usually when someone tries to make that argument, they are supposed to bring up how The West has put aside superstition and petty religious sectarianism.

The bloodthirsty Crusader who wants to purge the heretic and the unbeliever doesn't fit into that image very well. That part of Christian culture would be better off gone forever.


You're unable to even engage with my argument because of your resentment towards Christianity.

Let me ask you this as a temperature check:
In a public school setting, you more comfortable having your wife's son engage in a Christian prayer, or a Yorubian seance?

Neither, is the correct answer, unless there is a class on religion, then all should be included.
Organized religion has no place in public school.

But if you’re really scared, I can say some stuff that will make the demons disappear from under your bed, for a small fee of course.
9/13/20 4:50 PM
3/17/03
Posts: 18857
Treedoc - 
Onikage - 
anthonyMI - 
Onikage -
anthonyMI - 

Right, so just another example of Christian fundamentalists deciding that any religion that isn't Christianity, and really any religion that isn't your very specific version of Christianity, is actually devil worship. Same as for the previous 2000 years of pogroms, racism, and genocide. Nothing new.


Right, so just another relativist who is unable to recognize that Christian values guided the Western world to its current status, while ending the slave trade and establishing equality for women. You'll gladly sacrifice all our Christian culture has created for the sake feeding your own resentful ego.

All things white and Western are oppressive and patriarchal. All things brown and foreign are just misunderstood, man!
So what if my son's public school teacher has him summon Mike Brown's spirit into his own meat vessel? It's all just make believe anyways man! What are you, a bigot?!

Usually when someone tries to make that argument, they are supposed to bring up how The West has put aside superstition and petty religious sectarianism.

The bloodthirsty Crusader who wants to purge the heretic and the unbeliever doesn't fit into that image very well. That part of Christian culture would be better off gone forever.


You're unable to even engage with my argument because of your resentment towards Christianity.

Let me ask you this as a temperature check:
In a public school setting, you more comfortable having your wife's son engage in a Christian prayer, or a Yorubian seance?

Neither, is the correct answer, unless there is a class on religion, then all should be included.
Organized religion has no place in public school.

But if you’re really scared, I can say some stuff that will make the demons disappear from under your bed, for a small fee of course.

"Neither!"

The mental manlets are somersaulting out of the woodwork on this one.
9/13/20 4:52 PM
3/17/03
Posts: 18858
anthonyMI - 

"I feel like I'm having a conversation with a collection of bumper stickers. Are you attempting to make an argument here?"

Right, compared to the soaring intellectual rigor of calling people with the wrong religion demon worshippers. You know, that thing that ISIS did to the Yazidi just a few years ago in order to justify massacring, enslaving, and mass raping them. But you, you are doing it in a much more civilized and justified way so it is fine.

"Also, I love when someone answers "neither!" to a "which would you rather" question. It's the easiest indicator that you're dealing with a neutered individual, uninterested in exploring ideas."

I thought I was pretty clear. The Yoruba ritual would be preferable. At least they are a blank slate when it comes to people like me. You, on the other hand, have a pretty clear record of what you mean when you force your religion on us. It is pretty clear what yet another Torquemeda will do.


I've made many arguments in this thread. You aren't responding to them or creating your own, which I'm calling you out on.

Also, did I call someone a devil/Satan worshipper? I think you made that up.
9/13/20 4:53 PM
6/24/08
Posts: 756
That’s right, you’re scared of Demons, but I’m the “mental Manlet”

Nice about that fee..........
9/13/20 6:16 PM
3/2/09
Posts: 1013

9/13/20 6:21 PM
3/17/03
Posts: 18859
Treedoc - That’s right, you’re scared of Demons, but I’m the “mental Manlet”

Nice about that fee..........

When did I say I'm scared of demons?

Why is every thread filled with effeminate sophists who refuse to engage with actual arguments, and instead engage in strawmanning and failed mind-reading?
Nothing on this page has to do with my OP argument.

Did any of you grow up with fathers? Honest question.
9/13/20 6:28 PM
6/24/08
Posts: 757
Onikage - 
Treedoc - That’s right, you’re scared of Demons, but I’m the “mental Manlet”

Nice about that fee..........

When did I say I'm scared of demons?

Why is every thread filled with effeminate sophists who refuse to engage with actual arguments, and instead engage in strawmanning and failed mind-reading?
Nothing on this page has to do with my OP argument.

Did any of you grow up with fathers? Honest question.

Yes, just one, how about you?
9/13/20 6:33 PM
11/28/08
Posts: 24367
Onikage -
anthonyMI - 

"I feel like I'm having a conversation with a collection of bumper stickers. Are you attempting to make an argument here?"

Right, compared to the soaring intellectual rigor of calling people with the wrong religion demon worshippers. You know, that thing that ISIS did to the Yazidi just a few years ago in order to justify massacring, enslaving, and mass raping them. But you, you are doing it in a much more civilized and justified way so it is fine.

"Also, I love when someone answers "neither!" to a "which would you rather" question. It's the easiest indicator that you're dealing with a neutered individual, uninterested in exploring ideas."

I thought I was pretty clear. The Yoruba ritual would be preferable. At least they are a blank slate when it comes to people like me. You, on the other hand, have a pretty clear record of what you mean when you force your religion on us. It is pretty clear what yet another Torquemeda will do.


I've made many arguments in this thread. You aren't responding to them or creating your own, which I'm calling you out on.

Also, did I call someone a devil/Satan worshipper? I think you made that up.

Demonic African Cult.

Demonic cults tend to be cults that worship demons, and you specified demonic in the Christian sense of the word.

"Neither!"

The mental manlets are somersaulting out of the woodwork on this one."

Not many followers of the Yoruba traditional religion are demanding that I follow their religion. It isn't a choice that has to be made. That you are the only one asking me to make it really tips things in their favor, though.