OtherGround Forums Bill Browder posions Alexey Navalny

9/23/20 6:56 AM
2/4/09
Posts: 14654

9/23/20 12:46 PM
2/4/09
Posts: 14691

While I don't think navalny poisoned himself as Putin apparently suggested. 

 

I do think he is on the right track.

 

Hopefully some day we get to know exactly what the poison was

 

9/23/20 12:54 PM
10/23/05
Posts: 4369

Organophosphates may cause long term effects after poisoning, so nothing is certain on his recovery.

It would be crazy to think he'd poison himself with OPs, there are plenty of poisons out there that are more benign.

There are about 200k deaths per year of OP poisoning. Yes, you read that right. It's a mofo to treat.

9/24/20 12:31 PM
2/4/09
Posts: 14725
mataleo1 -

Organophosphates may cause long term effects after poisoning, so nothing is certain on his recovery.

It would be crazy to think he'd poison himself with OPs, there are plenty of poisons out there that are more benign.

There are about 200k deaths per year of OP poisoning. Yes, you read that right. It's a mofo to treat.

Dudes already walking around in forests. I doubt he poisoned himself as well. 

But looks like his team might face jail time for smuggling evidence and if there was novichok deadly substances out of the country

 

Gribakov claims that for illegal movement of toxic substances across the border, the blogger's relatives could face up to seven years in prison under Article 226.1 of the Criminal Code of Russia.

 

https://ria.ru/20200918/butylka-1577418763.html

9/24/20 4:17 PM
3/3/18
Posts: 1522

Good to see your boss is investigating the real crime here. The smuggling out of the non-existent poison. 

9/24/20 4:35 PM
2/4/09
Posts: 14741

Hey mataleo. 

 

Thoughts in this. The doctor is an internist and nephrologist as well as diabetes specialist. 

 

What role would a nephrologist play in treatment? Detox? That's what I'm thinking

 

This is the doctor that treated him. Seems reasonable to me, or am I missing something?

 

9/24/20 5:08 PM
2/4/09
Posts: 14742

Larry, what are your thoughts on all these countries telling Putin to investigate yet they have no problem that navalnys team took some of the evidence with them and wont share any details with russia. 

 

Does this sound rational to you? 

 

And what's the story now? That navalny had novichok all over himself... yet nobody around him got sick? Not only that but he had it all over him and survived.

9/24/20 5:41 PM
5/22/05
Posts: 26330
NoNeed4aScreenName -
mataleo1 -

Organophosphates may cause long term effects after poisoning, so nothing is certain on his recovery.

It would be crazy to think he'd poison himself with OPs, there are plenty of poisons out there that are more benign.

There are about 200k deaths per year of OP poisoning. Yes, you read that right. It's a mofo to treat.

Dudes already walking around in forests. I doubt he poisoned himself as well. 

But looks like his team might face jail time for smuggling evidence and if there was novichok deadly substances out of the country

 

Gribakov claims that for illegal movement of toxic substances across the border, the blogger's relatives could face up to seven years in prison under Article 226.1 of the Criminal Code of Russia.

 

https://ria.ru/20200918/butylka-1577418763.html

I thought there was no novichok to smuggle out?

 

You and the other alt right putin fan boys should just admit that one of the reasons you like him is because of the violent attacks on his opponents rarher then engaging in these mock defenses of him. 

9/24/20 6:20 PM
2/4/09
Posts: 14744
banco -
NoNeed4aScreenName -
mataleo1 -

Organophosphates may cause long term effects after poisoning, so nothing is certain on his recovery.

It would be crazy to think he'd poison himself with OPs, there are plenty of poisons out there that are more benign.

There are about 200k deaths per year of OP poisoning. Yes, you read that right. It's a mofo to treat.

Dudes already walking around in forests. I doubt he poisoned himself as well. 

But looks like his team might face jail time for smuggling evidence and if there was novichok deadly substances out of the country

 

Gribakov claims that for illegal movement of toxic substances across the border, the blogger's relatives could face up to seven years in prison under Article 226.1 of the Criminal Code of Russia.

 

https://ria.ru/20200918/butylka-1577418763.html

I thought there was no novichok to smuggle out?

 

You and the other alt right putin fan boys should just admit that one of the reasons you like him is because of the violent attacks on his opponents rarher then engaging in these mock defenses of him. 

Well the only thing that apparently contained any organophosphate was on the bottle and now Putin doesn't have access to investigate. 
 

he would be dead if it was novichok 

9/24/20 6:24 PM
5/22/05
Posts: 26332

3 out of 4 survived in UK 

9/24/20 6:54 PM
2/4/09
Posts: 14745
banco -

3 out of 4 survived in UK 

Makes ya wonder. 
 

look at what happens when a dab is put on a phone

A novichok agent was used in 1995 to poison Russian banker Ivan Kivelidi [ru], who died three days later in a hospital at the age of 46.[80] The poison was believed to have been applied to Kivelidi's office phone in Moscow.[81] His secretary Zara Ismailova also developed symptoms one month later and then died a day later in a hospital at the age of 35.[80]

 

I will say I would think that treating organophosphate poisoning has increased 

 

I already posted the other story in which the gentlemen started hallucinating almost immediately. 
 

so either 

 

a) novichok isn't as deadly as they say.

b) it wasn't novichok 

c) they have become incredibly efficient at treating it

 

but I've shown you accounts that it is deadly so you tell me. 
 

did the Uk ever end up sharing their evidence either?

 

aside from the bellingcat propaganda. You do know the govt. officials weren't the original claims that those Russians were GRU right?

9/25/20 2:51 AM
10/23/05
Posts: 4374
NoNeed4aScreenName - 

Hey mataleo. 

 

Thoughts in this. The doctor is an internist and nephrologist as well as diabetes specialist. 

 

What role would a nephrologist play in treatment? Detox? That's what I'm thinking

 

This is the doctor that treated him. Seems reasonable to me, or am I missing something?

 


I know the doc quite well :)

However, I haven't talked to him of late.

He might have done dialysis to facilitate OP removal. There are trials of efficacy in China and South Korea where these things happen a lot. He may have done plasma exchange too.

Most treatments focus on atropine/pralidoxime and ventilatory support.

9/25/20 2:56 AM
10/23/05
Posts: 4375
NoNeed4aScreenName - 
banco -

3 out of 4 survived in UK 

Makes ya wonder. 
 

look at what happens when a dab is put on a phone

A novichok agent was used in 1995 to poison Russian banker Ivan Kivelidi [ru], who died three days later in a hospital at the age of 46.[80] The poison was believed to have been applied to Kivelidi's office phone in Moscow.[81] His secretary Zara Ismailova also developed symptoms one month later and then died a day later in a hospital at the age of 35.[80]

 

I will say I would think that treating organophosphate poisoning has increased 

 

I already posted the other story in which the gentlemen started hallucinating almost immediately. 
 

so either 

 

a) novichok isn't as deadly as they say.

b) it wasn't novichok 

c) they have become incredibly efficient at treating it

 

but I've shown you accounts that it is deadly so you tell me. 
 

did the Uk ever end up sharing their evidence either?

 

aside from the bellingcat propaganda. You do know the govt. officials weren't the original claims that those Russians were GRU right?


Just to clarify: no substance is 100% deadly. It's all about dose.

10mg of thallium will kill no one
100mg will cause neuropathy and abdominal pain but no deaths
1000mg will kill 50% of patients

There are also the same dose-effect for most poisons, including OPs and novichok.

9/25/20 8:02 AM
3/3/18
Posts: 1523

He wasn't poisoned. Also, if he was poisoned it was by his own friends. And it wasn't novichok. But also they should be arrested for smuggling novichok. Now excuse me while I spend the next two weeks studying medical journals to find some gibberish to post in this mma forum in defense of my friend Putin.

Lol

9/25/20 11:28 AM
2/4/09
Posts: 14769
Crazy Larry -

He wasn't poisoned. Also, if he was poisoned it was by his own friends. And it wasn't novichok. But also they should be arrested for smuggling novichok. Now excuse me while I spend the next two weeks studying medical journals to find some gibberish to post in this mma forum in defense of my friend Putin.

Lol

I said ingested something just not novichok and not by putin.

 

His friends stole evidence and the chain of handling can essentially no longer be trusted. 

Also I'm sure you will be busy trying to not look stupid in the flynn stuff. 

 

So once that's over you can come back here to be made to look stupid some mkre

 

Edited: 9/25/20 3:59 PM
2/4/09
Posts: 14770
mataleo1 -
NoNeed4aScreenName - 
banco -

3 out of 4 survived in UK 

Makes ya wonder. 
 

look at what happens when a dab is put on a phone

A novichok agent was used in 1995 to poison Russian banker Ivan Kivelidi [ru], who died three days later in a hospital at the age of 46.[80] The poison was believed to have been applied to Kivelidi's office phone in Moscow.[81] His secretary Zara Ismailova also developed symptoms one month later and then died a day later in a hospital at the age of 35.[80]

 

I will say I would think that treating organophosphate poisoning has increased 

 

I already posted the other story in which the gentlemen started hallucinating almost immediately. 
 

so either 

 

a) novichok isn't as deadly as they say.

b) it wasn't novichok 

c) they have become incredibly efficient at treating it

 

but I've shown you accounts that it is deadly so you tell me. 
 

did the Uk ever end up sharing their evidence either?

 

aside from the bellingcat propaganda. You do know the govt. officials weren't the original claims that those Russians were GRU right?


Just to clarify: no substance is 100% deadly. It's all about dose.

10mg of thallium will kill no one
100mg will cause neuropathy and abdominal pain but no deaths
1000mg will kill 50% of patients

There are also the same dose-effect for most poisons, including OPs and novichok.

A drop of novichok on a phone was enough to kill a banker and his secretary a month later

 

What would you day novichok LD50 is?

9/25/20 3:43 PM
3/3/18
Posts: 1543

Now you're arguing with a doctor.

Maybe Putin will pay for you to get a medical degree so you can have better credentials for your ceaseless attempts to defend him from any and all accusations on an MMA messageboard with like 30 active posters.

Edited: 9/25/20 3:59 PM
2/4/09
Posts: 14786
Crazy Larry -

Now you're arguing with a doctor.

Maybe Putin will pay for you to get a medical degree so you can have better credentials for your ceaseless attempts to defend him from any and all accusations on an MMA messageboard with like 30 active posters.

Arguing? I'm asking him a question. 

 

Can you tell me what the LD50 is?

 

You probably dont even know what it means

9/25/20 4:02 PM
3/3/18
Posts: 1545
NoNeed4aScreenName -
Crazy Larry -

Now you're arguing with a doctor.

Maybe Putin will pay for you to get a medical degree so you can have better credentials for your ceaseless attempts to defend him from any and all accusations on an MMA messageboard with like 30 active posters.

Arguing? I'm asking him a question. 

 

Can you tell me what the LD50 is?

 

You probably dont even know what it means

He told you that no poison is 100% deadly (and therefore Navalny etc not dying isn't evidence of it not being Novichok) and you responded by citing one example of a small amount of Novichok being deadly. That didn't seem like agreement. 

Edited: 9/25/20 5:15 PM
2/4/09
Posts: 14788
Crazy Larry -
NoNeed4aScreenName -
Crazy Larry -

Now you're arguing with a doctor.

Maybe Putin will pay for you to get a medical degree so you can have better credentials for your ceaseless attempts to defend him from any and all accusations on an MMA messageboard with like 30 active posters.

Arguing? I'm asking him a question. 

 

Can you tell me what the LD50 is?

 

You probably dont even know what it means

He told you that no poison is 100% deadly (and therefore Navalny etc not dying isn't evidence of it not being Novichok) and you responded by citing one example of a small amount of Novichok being deadly. That didn't seem like agreement. 

But he said dose matter. 
 

what do you think LD50 means?

Description

In toxicology, the median lethal dose, LD50, LC50 or LCt50 is a measure of the lethal dose of a toxin, radiation, or pathogen

 

maybe you should go to his AMA thread about Covid and see some shout outs. 
 

ive been going back and forth with the doctor on that thread. 

 

while we might disagree on some things I respect the doctors opinion.

 

9/26/20 5:56 AM
10/23/05
Posts: 4376

The data is extremely limited about LD50 of Novichok.

Preliminary evidence suggests it's somewhere around 0.1-0.3ug/kg so about 10ug should kill 50% of adults. 1-2ug could legitimately kill someone. It also depends on other factors like foods, other drugs.

Edited: 9/28/20 11:01 AM
2/4/09
Posts: 14804

Angela Merkel making tripnspt Tue german hospital. Other outlets were labeling them as "secret"

 

Oh I also like the "novichok-like" lol. So its not novichok...only like novichok

 

I like how its morphing into a military grade nerve like agent

 

9/28/20 8:11 AM
2/4/09
Posts: 14805
NoNeed4aScreenName -

Angela Merkel making trips to the  german hospital. Other outlets were labeling them as "secret"

 

Oh I also like the "novichok-like" lol. Sonits novichok...only like novichok

 

27 days ago
2/4/09
Posts: 14898

Wait even more conclusive evidence. Navalny asserts it was putin himself! 

 

27 days ago
2/4/09
Posts: 14899
NoNeed4aScreenName -

Wait even more conclusive evidence. Navalny asserts it was putin himself! 

 

First lie of the article not far in

 

Because he was poisoned with a substance that can essentially only come from state-run laboratories in Russia,