OtherGround Forums Can we all agree to defund the ATF?

11 days ago
9/23/07
Posts: 82965
Fuck those guys.
11 days ago
2/12/14
Posts: 4305

 

dude. if you want a short barrel rifle or a full auto. just get the stamps and go through the protocol. 

 

Im in the same boat with you. Would love to have a full auto, it is actually the fight stopping gun fight dominating machine. I dont have one. If I want it bad enough I would pull out my wallet and make it happen. you put yourself on the radar when you do it. 

 

ATF does a lot of good work. They are the work horses out of all the federal agencies. They fukin destroyed MS-13. They good people for the most part. 

Edited: 11 days ago
11/24/13
Posts: 4336

Regarding the verb "defund", are OGers still pretending that "defund" is a binary thing where we literally halt all funding?

Or can we actually have a conversation like adults?

For context, regarding what "defund the police" actually means, by Kenji Alt-Lopez:

==================================

It doesn't mean we should abolish the police. Rather, it means that right now, the police are expected to do work that falls far outside of what they are trained and hired to do. 90% of police responses are for non-violent events that, in most cases, would be better served by other trained professionals. Study after study has shown that increases in education budgets and social services are what lead to less crime and violence, not increases to police presence or budgets. Let the police focus on what they are good at, and leave the other stuff to people actually trained for the job. This would serve the dual purpose of bettering society as a whole, as well as decreasing the workload and stress of the police officers we do retain.

"Defund the police" really translates to "reallocate some of the budget currently used for police departments to programs that would decrease the workload on the police force, allow them to focus on the things they are actually good at, and get more people the kind of help they need, thereby reducing violent crime and violent confrontation to produce a win-win situation for all of society."*

It has worked in several cities, and it can work in many more.

If you want further reading, here are a number of sources that explain the concept. I'm including sources from across the political spectrum, as this should not be a partisan issue:

Brookings Institute (Centrist): https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2020/06/19/what-does-defund-the-police-mean-and-does-it-have-merit/
Fox Business (Right-leaning): https://www.foxbusiness.com/life />The Cut (Left-leaning): https://www.thecut.com/2020/06/what-does-defund-the-police-mean-the-phrase-explained.html
ACLU (Civil libertarian): https://www.aclu.org/news/criminal-law-reform/defunding-the-police-will-actually-make-us-safer/

note: Folks questioning the "90% of calls are for nonviolent crimes" stat, here is a New York Times article on it (you can think the NYT is a left wing publication, but their stats are accurately researched), which shows that cops spend less than 5% of their time on violent crimes, and that in most cities, less than 1% of calls are for violent crimes: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/19/up...

*with a few big exceptions, such as those who currently exploit the prison-industrial complex to gain capital through the incarceration of folks who could very easily be productive members of society if they were allowed to be.

==================================

Anyways, to answer OP's question: YES. ATF need to be gutted and should reallocate it's budget to focus almost entirely on more robust background checks, particularly to stop far right terrorists, which is the greatest threat our nation faces according to the FBI and Department of Homeland Security. Many of the laws ATF imposes on our personal freedoms need to be changed or dropped, like medical marijuana patients can't own guns. ATF needs to be de-militarized as well, other agencies can be inserted into a situation if needed.

11 days ago
9/23/07
Posts: 82966

Defund like eliminate them altogether.


11 days ago
11/12/07
Posts: 23305

I’m ok with the ATF just take SBRs, SBSs, and suppressors off the NFA. 

Edited: 11 days ago
1/25/04
Posts: 138425

Defund actually does mean eliminate the police 100%, but the politicians got involved and reshaped that message to make it more palatable. Those at the heart of the defund movement want the police to be abolished completely because they view the police as the bad guys gunning down thousands upon thousands of blacks in the street so often that all black men, women and children are afraid to even step outside of their front door

 

Just ask Mayor Fray who said he does not support the COMPLETE abolishment of the police:

 

 

 

"WE DON'T WANT NO MO POLICE"

11 days ago
4/9/16
Posts: 3370

What kind of a "mayor" shows up in public wearing jogging pants?  Jesus H, Jake a little self respect? 

11 days ago
4/24/07
Posts: 44216
Nytron -

Regarding the verb "defund", are OGers still pretending that "defund" is a binary thing where we literally halt all funding?

Or can we actually have a conversation like adults?

For context, regarding what "defund the police" actually means, by Kenji Alt-Lopez:

==================================

It doesn't mean we should abolish the police. Rather, it means that right now, the police are expected to do work that falls far outside of what they are trained and hired to do. 90% of police responses are for non-violent events that, in most cases, would be better served by other trained professionals. Study after study has shown that increases in education budgets and social services are what lead to less crime and violence, not increases to police presence or budgets. Let the police focus on what they are good at, and leave the other stuff to people actually trained for the job. This would serve the dual purpose of bettering society as a whole, as well as decreasing the workload and stress of the police officers we do retain.

"Defund the police" really translates to "reallocate some of the budget currently used for police departments to programs that would decrease the workload on the police force, allow them to focus on the things they are actually good at, and get more people the kind of help they need, thereby reducing violent crime and violent confrontation to produce a win-win situation for all of society."*

It has worked in several cities, and it can work in many more.

If you want further reading, here are a number of sources that explain the concept. I'm including sources from across the political spectrum, as this should not be a partisan issue:

Brookings Institute (Centrist): https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2020/06/19/what-does-defund-the-police-mean-and-does-it-have-merit/
Fox Business (Right-leaning): https://www.foxbusiness.com/life />The Cut (Left-leaning): https://www.thecut.com/2020/06/what-does-defund-the-police-mean-the-phrase-explained.html
ACLU (Civil libertarian): https://www.aclu.org/news/criminal-law-reform/defunding-the-police-will-actually-make-us-safer/

note: Folks questioning the "90% of calls are for nonviolent crimes" stat, here is a New York Times article on it (you can think the NYT is a left wing publication, but their stats are accurately researched), which shows that cops spend less than 5% of their time on violent crimes, and that in most cities, less than 1% of calls are for violent crimes: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/19/up...

*with a few big exceptions, such as those who currently exploit the prison-industrial complex to gain capital through the incarceration of folks who could very easily be productive members of society if they were allowed to be.

==================================

Anyways, to answer OP's question: YES. ATF need to be gutted and should reallocate it's budget to focus almost entirely on more robust background checks, particularly to stop far right terrorists, which is the greatest threat our nation faces according to the FBI and Department of Homeland Security. Many of the laws ATF imposes on our personal freedoms need to be changed or dropped, like medical marijuana patients can't own guns. ATF needs to be de-militarized as well, other agencies can be inserted into a situation if needed.

11 days ago
7/13/17
Posts: 6516
Nytron -

Regarding the verb "defund", are OGers still pretending that "defund" is a binary thing where we literally halt all funding?

Or can we actually have a conversation like adults?

For context, regarding what "defund the police" actually means, by Kenji Alt-Lopez:

==================================

It doesn't mean we should abolish the police. Rather, it means that right now, the police are expected to do work that falls far outside of what they are trained and hired to do. 90% of police responses are for non-violent events that, in most cases, would be better served by other trained professionals. Study after study has shown that increases in education budgets and social services are what lead to less crime and violence, not increases to police presence or budgets. Let the police focus on what they are good at, and leave the other stuff to people actually trained for the job. This would serve the dual purpose of bettering society as a whole, as well as decreasing the workload and stress of the police officers we do retain.

"Defund the police" really translates to "reallocate some of the budget currently used for police departments to programs that would decrease the workload on the police force, allow them to focus on the things they are actually good at, and get more people the kind of help they need, thereby reducing violent crime and violent confrontation to produce a win-win situation for all of society."*

It has worked in several cities, and it can work in many more.

If you want further reading, here are a number of sources that explain the concept. I'm including sources from across the political spectrum, as this should not be a partisan issue:

Brookings Institute (Centrist): https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2020/06/19/what-does-defund-the-police-mean-and-does-it-have-merit/
Fox Business (Right-leaning): https://www.foxbusiness.com/life />The Cut (Left-leaning): https://www.thecut.com/2020/06/what-does-defund-the-police-mean-the-phrase-explained.html
ACLU (Civil libertarian): https://www.aclu.org/news/criminal-law-reform/defunding-the-police-will-actually-make-us-safer/

note: Folks questioning the "90% of calls are for nonviolent crimes" stat, here is a New York Times article on it (you can think the NYT is a left wing publication, but their stats are accurately researched), which shows that cops spend less than 5% of their time on violent crimes, and that in most cities, less than 1% of calls are for violent crimes: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/19/up...

*with a few big exceptions, such as those who currently exploit the prison-industrial complex to gain capital through the incarceration of folks who could very easily be productive members of society if they were allowed to be.

==================================

Anyways, to answer OP's question: YES. ATF need to be gutted and should reallocate it's budget to focus almost entirely on more robust background checks, particularly to stop far right terrorists, which is the greatest threat our nation faces according to the FBI and Department of Homeland Security. Many of the laws ATF imposes on our personal freedoms need to be changed or dropped, like medical marijuana patients can't own guns. ATF needs to be de-militarized as well, other agencies can be inserted into a situation if needed.

What does a CHEF know about this?  

11 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 119212

I think they are ok and necessary for some things, but their flip flopping on the brace issue has gotten silly.

My main concern with them is they are getting more politicized and are leaning more anti-2A

11 days ago
1/27/14
Posts: 7314

ATF should be a store

Edited: 11 days ago
4/13/12
Posts: 38555
Nytron -

Regarding the verb "defund", are OGers still pretending that "defund" is a binary thing where we literally halt all funding?

Or can we actually have a conversation like adults?

For context, regarding what "defund the police" actually means, by Kenji Alt-Lopez:

==================================

It doesn't mean we should abolish the police. Rather, it means that right now, the police are expected to do work that falls far outside of what they are trained and hired to do. 90% of police responses are for non-violent events that, in most cases, would be better served by other trained professionals. Study after study has shown that increases in education budgets and social services are what lead to less crime and violence, not increases to police presence or budgets. Let the police focus on what they are good at, and leave the other stuff to people actually trained for the job. This would serve the dual purpose of bettering society as a whole, as well as decreasing the workload and stress of the police officers we do retain.

"Defund the police" really translates to "reallocate some of the budget currently used for police departments to programs that would decrease the workload on the police force, allow them to focus on the things they are actually good at, and get more people the kind of help they need, thereby reducing violent crime and violent confrontation to produce a win-win situation for all of society."*

It has worked in several cities, and it can work in many more.

If you want further reading, here are a number of sources that explain the concept. I'm including sources from across the political spectrum, as this should not be a partisan issue:

Brookings Institute (Centrist): https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2020/06/19/what-does-defund-the-police-mean-and-does-it-have-merit/
Fox Business (Right-leaning): https://www.foxbusiness.com/life />The Cut (Left-leaning): https://www.thecut.com/2020/06/what-does-defund-the-police-mean-the-phrase-explained.html
ACLU (Civil libertarian): https://www.aclu.org/news/criminal-law-reform/defunding-the-police-will-actually-make-us-safer/

note: Folks questioning the "90% of calls are for nonviolent crimes" stat, here is a New York Times article on it (you can think the NYT is a left wing publication, but their stats are accurately researched), which shows that cops spend less than 5% of their time on violent crimes, and that in most cities, less than 1% of calls are for violent crimes: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/19/up...

*with a few big exceptions, such as those who currently exploit the prison-industrial complex to gain capital through the incarceration of folks who could very easily be productive members of society if they were allowed to be.

==================================

Anyways, to answer OP's question: YES. ATF need to be gutted and should reallocate it's budget to focus almost entirely on more robust background checks, particularly to stop far right terrorists, which is the greatest threat our nation faces according to the FBI and Department of Homeland Security. Many of the laws ATF imposes on our personal freedoms need to be changed or dropped, like medical marijuana patients can't own guns. ATF needs to be de-militarized as well, other agencies can be inserted into a situation if needed.

Kenji lopez alt is a fucking chef.  Wtf does he know?  I mean he's right, but he should stick to food.

His cookbooks are dope btw.

11 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 14866
Nytron - 

Regarding the verb "defund", are OGers still pretending that "defund" is a binary thing where we literally halt all funding?

Or can we actually have a conversation like adults?

For context, regarding what "defund the police" actually means, by Kenji Alt-Lopez:

==================================

It doesn't mean we should abolish the police. Rather, it means that right now, the police are expected to do work that falls far outside of what they are trained and hired to do. 90% of police responses are for non-violent events that, in most cases, would be better served by other trained professionals. Study after study has shown that increases in education budgets and social services are what lead to less crime and violence, not increases to police presence or budgets. Let the police focus on what they are good at, and leave the other stuff to people actually trained for the job. This would serve the dual purpose of bettering society as a whole, as well as decreasing the workload and stress of the police officers we do retain.

"Defund the police" really translates to "reallocate some of the budget currently used for police departments to programs that would decrease the workload on the police force, allow them to focus on the things they are actually good at, and get more people the kind of help they need, thereby reducing violent crime and violent confrontation to produce a win-win situation for all of society."*

It has worked in several cities, and it can work in many more.

If you want further reading, here are a number of sources that explain the concept. I'm including sources from across the political spectrum, as this should not be a partisan issue:

Brookings Institute (Centrist): https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2020/06/19/what-does-defund-the-police-mean-and-does-it-have-merit/
Fox Business (Right-leaning): https://www.foxbusiness.com/life />The Cut (Left-leaning): https://www.thecut.com/2020/06/what-does-defund-the-police-mean-the-phrase-explained.html
ACLU (Civil libertarian): https://www.aclu.org/news/criminal-law-reform/defunding-the-police-will-actually-make-us-safer/

note: Folks questioning the "90% of calls are for nonviolent crimes" stat, here is a New York Times article on it (you can think the NYT is a left wing publication, but their stats are accurately researched), which shows that cops spend less than 5% of their time on violent crimes, and that in most cities, less than 1% of calls are for violent crimes: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/19/up...

*with a few big exceptions, such as those who currently exploit the prison-industrial complex to gain capital through the incarceration of folks who could very easily be productive members of society if they were allowed to be.

==================================

Anyways, to answer OP's question: YES. ATF need to be gutted and should reallocate it's budget to focus almost entirely on more robust background checks, particularly to stop far right terrorists, which is the greatest threat our nation faces according to the FBI and Department of Homeland Security. Many of the laws ATF imposes on our personal freedoms need to be changed or dropped, like medical marijuana patients can't own guns. ATF needs to be de-militarized as well, other agencies can be inserted into a situation if needed.


NYTRON,

Since your about abortion for your candidate. GO FUCK YOURSELF!

Muthafucker Biden wants to codify ROE, He is for up to 3rd Trimester Bro. WTF? If you don't think that's murder your just as sick as him
11 days ago
4/19/09
Posts: 33498
uniquetechnique -
Nytron - 

Regarding the verb "defund", are OGers still pretending that "defund" is a binary thing where we literally halt all funding?

Or can we actually have a conversation like adults?

For context, regarding what "defund the police" actually means, by Kenji Alt-Lopez:

==================================

It doesn't mean we should abolish the police. Rather, it means that right now, the police are expected to do work that falls far outside of what they are trained and hired to do. 90% of police responses are for non-violent events that, in most cases, would be better served by other trained professionals. Study after study has shown that increases in education budgets and social services are what lead to less crime and violence, not increases to police presence or budgets. Let the police focus on what they are good at, and leave the other stuff to people actually trained for the job. This would serve the dual purpose of bettering society as a whole, as well as decreasing the workload and stress of the police officers we do retain.

"Defund the police" really translates to "reallocate some of the budget currently used for police departments to programs that would decrease the workload on the police force, allow them to focus on the things they are actually good at, and get more people the kind of help they need, thereby reducing violent crime and violent confrontation to produce a win-win situation for all of society."*

It has worked in several cities, and it can work in many more.

If you want further reading, here are a number of sources that explain the concept. I'm including sources from across the political spectrum, as this should not be a partisan issue:

Brookings Institute (Centrist): https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2020/06/19/what-does-defund-the-police-mean-and-does-it-have-merit/
Fox Business (Right-leaning): https://www.foxbusiness.com/life />The Cut (Left-leaning): https://www.thecut.com/2020/06/what-does-defund-the-police-mean-the-phrase-explained.html
ACLU (Civil libertarian): https://www.aclu.org/news/criminal-law-reform/defunding-the-police-will-actually-make-us-safer/

note: Folks questioning the "90% of calls are for nonviolent crimes" stat, here is a New York Times article on it (you can think the NYT is a left wing publication, but their stats are accurately researched), which shows that cops spend less than 5% of their time on violent crimes, and that in most cities, less than 1% of calls are for violent crimes: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/19/up...

*with a few big exceptions, such as those who currently exploit the prison-industrial complex to gain capital through the incarceration of folks who could very easily be productive members of society if they were allowed to be.

==================================

Anyways, to answer OP's question: YES. ATF need to be gutted and should reallocate it's budget to focus almost entirely on more robust background checks, particularly to stop far right terrorists, which is the greatest threat our nation faces according to the FBI and Department of Homeland Security. Many of the laws ATF imposes on our personal freedoms need to be changed or dropped, like medical marijuana patients can't own guns. ATF needs to be de-militarized as well, other agencies can be inserted into a situation if needed.


NYTRON,

Since your about abortion for your candidate. GO FUCK YOURSELF!

Muthafucker Biden wants to codify ROE, He is for up to 3rd Trimester Bro. WTF? If you don't think that's murder your just as sick as him

Well tahey could legalise abortion up to the,

 

 

 

 

how old are you again? 

11 days ago
11/25/09
Posts: 4600
John Cable -

 

dude. if you want a short barrel rifle or a full auto. just get the stamps and go through the protocol. 

 

Im in the same boat with you. Would love to have a full auto, it is actually the fight stopping gun fight dominating machine. I dont have one. If I want it bad enough I would pull out my wallet and make it happen. you put yourself on the radar when you do it. 

 

ATF does a lot of good work. They are the work horses out of all the federal agencies. They fukin destroyed MS-13. They good people for the most part. 

Fuck that.

 

ATF is the agency in charge of stomping on people’s rights and enforcement of unconstitutional gun laws.

 

Oath breaking pussys who murdered kids in Waco.

11 days ago
11/24/13
Posts: 4341
EFM -
Nytron -

Regarding the verb "defund", are OGers still pretending that "defund" is a binary thing where we literally halt all funding?

Or can we actually have a conversation like adults?

For context, regarding what "defund the police" actually means, by Kenji Alt-Lopez:

==================================

It doesn't mean we should abolish the police. Rather, it means that right now, the police are expected to do work that falls far outside of what they are trained and hired to do. 90% of police responses are for non-violent events that, in most cases, would be better served by other trained professionals. Study after study has shown that increases in education budgets and social services are what lead to less crime and violence, not increases to police presence or budgets. Let the police focus on what they are good at, and leave the other stuff to people actually trained for the job. This would serve the dual purpose of bettering society as a whole, as well as decreasing the workload and stress of the police officers we do retain.

"Defund the police" really translates to "reallocate some of the budget currently used for police departments to programs that would decrease the workload on the police force, allow them to focus on the things they are actually good at, and get more people the kind of help they need, thereby reducing violent crime and violent confrontation to produce a win-win situation for all of society."*

It has worked in several cities, and it can work in many more.

If you want further reading, here are a number of sources that explain the concept. I'm including sources from across the political spectrum, as this should not be a partisan issue:

Brookings Institute (Centrist): https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2020/06/19/what-does-defund-the-police-mean-and-does-it-have-merit/
Fox Business (Right-leaning): https://www.foxbusiness.com/life />The Cut (Left-leaning): https://www.thecut.com/2020/06/what-does-defund-the-police-mean-the-phrase-explained.html
ACLU (Civil libertarian): https://www.aclu.org/news/criminal-law-reform/defunding-the-police-will-actually-make-us-safer/

note: Folks questioning the "90% of calls are for nonviolent crimes" stat, here is a New York Times article on it (you can think the NYT is a left wing publication, but their stats are accurately researched), which shows that cops spend less than 5% of their time on violent crimes, and that in most cities, less than 1% of calls are for violent crimes: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/19/up...

*with a few big exceptions, such as those who currently exploit the prison-industrial complex to gain capital through the incarceration of folks who could very easily be productive members of society if they were allowed to be.

==================================

Anyways, to answer OP's question: YES. ATF need to be gutted and should reallocate it's budget to focus almost entirely on more robust background checks, particularly to stop far right terrorists, which is the greatest threat our nation faces according to the FBI and Department of Homeland Security. Many of the laws ATF imposes on our personal freedoms need to be changed or dropped, like medical marijuana patients can't own guns. ATF needs to be de-militarized as well, other agencies can be inserted into a situation if needed.

Kenji lopez alt is a fucking chef.  Wtf does he know?  I mean he's right, but he should stick to food.

His cookbooks are dope btw.

Apparently a lot more than cooking. That explanation is the best I've seen. We all know he's right.

Best chef on the planet.

11 days ago
8/20/03
Posts: 156048

We should defund the CBC in Canada.

Edited: 11 days ago
11/24/13
Posts: 4342
uniquetechnique -
Nytron - 

Regarding the verb "defund", are OGers still pretending that "defund" is a binary thing where we literally halt all funding?

Or can we actually have a conversation like adults?

For context, regarding what "defund the police" actually means, by Kenji Alt-Lopez:

==================================

It doesn't mean we should abolish the police. Rather, it means that right now, the police are expected to do work that falls far outside of what they are trained and hired to do. 90% of police responses are for non-violent events that, in most cases, would be better served by other trained professionals. Study after study has shown that increases in education budgets and social services are what lead to less crime and violence, not increases to police presence or budgets. Let the police focus on what they are good at, and leave the other stuff to people actually trained for the job. This would serve the dual purpose of bettering society as a whole, as well as decreasing the workload and stress of the police officers we do retain.

"Defund the police" really translates to "reallocate some of the budget currently used for police departments to programs that would decrease the workload on the police force, allow them to focus on the things they are actually good at, and get more people the kind of help they need, thereby reducing violent crime and violent confrontation to produce a win-win situation for all of society."*

It has worked in several cities, and it can work in many more.

If you want further reading, here are a number of sources that explain the concept. I'm including sources from across the political spectrum, as this should not be a partisan issue:

Brookings Institute (Centrist): https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2020/06/19/what-does-defund-the-police-mean-and-does-it-have-merit/
Fox Business (Right-leaning): https://www.foxbusiness.com/life />The Cut (Left-leaning): https://www.thecut.com/2020/06/what-does-defund-the-police-mean-the-phrase-explained.html
ACLU (Civil libertarian): https://www.aclu.org/news/criminal-law-reform/defunding-the-police-will-actually-make-us-safer/

note: Folks questioning the "90% of calls are for nonviolent crimes" stat, here is a New York Times article on it (you can think the NYT is a left wing publication, but their stats are accurately researched), which shows that cops spend less than 5% of their time on violent crimes, and that in most cities, less than 1% of calls are for violent crimes: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/19/up...

*with a few big exceptions, such as those who currently exploit the prison-industrial complex to gain capital through the incarceration of folks who could very easily be productive members of society if they were allowed to be.

==================================

Anyways, to answer OP's question: YES. ATF need to be gutted and should reallocate it's budget to focus almost entirely on more robust background checks, particularly to stop far right terrorists, which is the greatest threat our nation faces according to the FBI and Department of Homeland Security. Many of the laws ATF imposes on our personal freedoms need to be changed or dropped, like medical marijuana patients can't own guns. ATF needs to be de-militarized as well, other agencies can be inserted into a situation if needed.


NYTRON,

Since your about abortion for your candidate. GO FUCK YOURSELF!

Muthafucker Biden wants to codify ROE, He is for up to 3rd Trimester Bro. WTF? If you don't think that's murder your just as sick as him

The pro-life vs. pro-choice thing shouldn't be a binary issue where you have to pick either extreme, the correct answer is somewhere in the middle. i.e. Late term abortions shouldn't be allowed unless it is rape or a severe deformity. And birth control should be celebrated and encouraged.

The right demonizes birth control and planned parenthood as it relates to women's health. This is pure stupidity. This is something even Trump is against (at least he was in the primaries). Furthermore, states like Georgia are now imposing a 30 year prison sentence if a women has a miscarriage. This is barbaric.

Most dems are not radically pro-choice the same way the right is radically pro-life, thus I more closely align with Biden on this issue.

Regarding the third trimester thing, see these links:

newsweek.com/fact-check-does-joe-biden-support-late-term-abortion-until-birth-like-donald-trump-claimed-1536686

washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/04/28/fact-checking-trumps-comments-democrats-late-term-abortion/

11 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 44481
BTTMike -
John Cable -

 

dude. if you want a short barrel rifle or a full auto. just get the stamps and go through the protocol. 

 

Im in the same boat with you. Would love to have a full auto, it is actually the fight stopping gun fight dominating machine. I dont have one. If I want it bad enough I would pull out my wallet and make it happen. you put yourself on the radar when you do it. 

 

ATF does a lot of good work. They are the work horses out of all the federal agencies. They fukin destroyed MS-13. They good people for the most part. 

Fuck that.

 

ATF is the agency in charge of stomping on people’s rights and enforcement of unconstitutional gun laws.

 

Oath breaking pussys who murdered kids in Waco.

You’re dumb. 

11 days ago
8/20/03
Posts: 4049
BTTMike -
John Cable -

 

dude. if you want a short barrel rifle or a full auto. just get the stamps and go through the protocol. 

 

Im in the same boat with you. Would love to have a full auto, it is actually the fight stopping gun fight dominating machine. I dont have one. If I want it bad enough I would pull out my wallet and make it happen. you put yourself on the radar when you do it. 

 

ATF does a lot of good work. They are the work horses out of all the federal agencies. They fukin destroyed MS-13. They good people for the most part. 

Fuck that.

 

ATF is the agency in charge of stomping on people’s rights and enforcement of unconstitutional gun laws.

 

Oath breaking pussys who murdered kids in Waco.

The left and right just love laws. The war on drugs gets people off and the war on guns will do the same. 
 

How about we give freedom a try? Legalize all natural drugs and let me buy shorty barrels off the shelf.

11 days ago
11/12/07
Posts: 23309
Blizass -
BTTMike -
John Cable -

 

dude. if you want a short barrel rifle or a full auto. just get the stamps and go through the protocol. 

 

Im in the same boat with you. Would love to have a full auto, it is actually the fight stopping gun fight dominating machine. I dont have one. If I want it bad enough I would pull out my wallet and make it happen. you put yourself on the radar when you do it. 

 

ATF does a lot of good work. They are the work horses out of all the federal agencies. They fukin destroyed MS-13. They good people for the most part. 

Fuck that.

 

ATF is the agency in charge of stomping on people’s rights and enforcement of unconstitutional gun laws.

 

Oath breaking pussys who murdered kids in Waco.

The left and right just love laws. The war on drugs gets people off and the war on guns will do the same. 
 

How about we give freedom a try? Legalize all natural drugs and let me buy shorty barrels off the shelf.

Amen

11 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 14868
Ghengiseanie -
uniquetechnique -
Nytron - 

Regarding the verb "defund", are OGers still pretending that "defund" is a binary thing where we literally halt all funding?

Or can we actually have a conversation like adults?

For context, regarding what "defund the police" actually means, by Kenji Alt-Lopez:

==================================

It doesn't mean we should abolish the police. Rather, it means that right now, the police are expected to do work that falls far outside of what they are trained and hired to do. 90% of police responses are for non-violent events that, in most cases, would be better served by other trained professionals. Study after study has shown that increases in education budgets and social services are what lead to less crime and violence, not increases to police presence or budgets. Let the police focus on what they are good at, and leave the other stuff to people actually trained for the job. This would serve the dual purpose of bettering society as a whole, as well as decreasing the workload and stress of the police officers we do retain.

"Defund the police" really translates to "reallocate some of the budget currently used for police departments to programs that would decrease the workload on the police force, allow them to focus on the things they are actually good at, and get more people the kind of help they need, thereby reducing violent crime and violent confrontation to produce a win-win situation for all of society."*

It has worked in several cities, and it can work in many more.

If you want further reading, here are a number of sources that explain the concept. I'm including sources from across the political spectrum, as this should not be a partisan issue:

Brookings Institute (Centrist): https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2020/06/19/what-does-defund-the-police-mean-and-does-it-have-merit/
Fox Business (Right-leaning): https://www.foxbusiness.com/life />The Cut (Left-leaning): https://www.thecut.com/2020/06/what-does-defund-the-police-mean-the-phrase-explained.html
ACLU (Civil libertarian): https://www.aclu.org/news/criminal-law-reform/defunding-the-police-will-actually-make-us-safer/

note: Folks questioning the "90% of calls are for nonviolent crimes" stat, here is a New York Times article on it (you can think the NYT is a left wing publication, but their stats are accurately researched), which shows that cops spend less than 5% of their time on violent crimes, and that in most cities, less than 1% of calls are for violent crimes: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/19/up...

*with a few big exceptions, such as those who currently exploit the prison-industrial complex to gain capital through the incarceration of folks who could very easily be productive members of society if they were allowed to be.

==================================

Anyways, to answer OP's question: YES. ATF need to be gutted and should reallocate it's budget to focus almost entirely on more robust background checks, particularly to stop far right terrorists, which is the greatest threat our nation faces according to the FBI and Department of Homeland Security. Many of the laws ATF imposes on our personal freedoms need to be changed or dropped, like medical marijuana patients can't own guns. ATF needs to be de-militarized as well, other agencies can be inserted into a situation if needed.


NYTRON,

Since your about abortion for your candidate. GO FUCK YOURSELF!

Muthafucker Biden wants to codify ROE, He is for up to 3rd Trimester Bro. WTF? If you don't think that's murder your just as sick as him

Well tahey could legalise abortion up to the,

 

 

 

 

how old are you again? 

Hey Brahdah, im

not sure what you said. I could of said talk English, haha. Jus playin. But yea what exactly were you saying?

Just pissed at people that pick for abortion. Just my opinion

11 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 50470
John Cable -

 

dude. if you want a short barrel rifle or a full auto. just get the stamps and go through the protocol. 

 

Im in the same boat with you. Would love to have a full auto, it is actually the fight stopping gun fight dominating machine. I dont have one. If I want it bad enough I would pull out my wallet and make it happen. you put yourself on the radar when you do it. 

 

ATF does a lot of good work. They are the work horses out of all the federal agencies. They fukin destroyed MS-13. They good people for the most part. 

imprasurbrul in solid blue states

11 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 14869
Nytron -
uniquetechnique -
Nytron - 

Regarding the verb "defund", are OGers still pretending that "defund" is a binary thing where we literally halt all funding?

Or can we actually have a conversation like adults?

For context, regarding what "defund the police" actually means, by Kenji Alt-Lopez:

==================================

It doesn't mean we should abolish the police. Rather, it means that right now, the police are expected to do work that falls far outside of what they are trained and hired to do. 90% of police responses are for non-violent events that, in most cases, would be better served by other trained professionals. Study after study has shown that increases in education budgets and social services are what lead to less crime and violence, not increases to police presence or budgets. Let the police focus on what they are good at, and leave the other stuff to people actually trained for the job. This would serve the dual purpose of bettering society as a whole, as well as decreasing the workload and stress of the police officers we do retain.

"Defund the police" really translates to "reallocate some of the budget currently used for police departments to programs that would decrease the workload on the police force, allow them to focus on the things they are actually good at, and get more people the kind of help they need, thereby reducing violent crime and violent confrontation to produce a win-win situation for all of society."*

It has worked in several cities, and it can work in many more.

If you want further reading, here are a number of sources that explain the concept. I'm including sources from across the political spectrum, as this should not be a partisan issue:

Brookings Institute (Centrist): https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2020/06/19/what-does-defund-the-police-mean-and-does-it-have-merit/
Fox Business (Right-leaning): https://www.foxbusiness.com/life />The Cut (Left-leaning): https://www.thecut.com/2020/06/what-does-defund-the-police-mean-the-phrase-explained.html
ACLU (Civil libertarian): https://www.aclu.org/news/criminal-law-reform/defunding-the-police-will-actually-make-us-safer/

note: Folks questioning the "90% of calls are for nonviolent crimes" stat, here is a New York Times article on it (you can think the NYT is a left wing publication, but their stats are accurately researched), which shows that cops spend less than 5% of their time on violent crimes, and that in most cities, less than 1% of calls are for violent crimes: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/19/up...

*with a few big exceptions, such as those who currently exploit the prison-industrial complex to gain capital through the incarceration of folks who could very easily be productive members of society if they were allowed to be.

==================================

Anyways, to answer OP's question: YES. ATF need to be gutted and should reallocate it's budget to focus almost entirely on more robust background checks, particularly to stop far right terrorists, which is the greatest threat our nation faces according to the FBI and Department of Homeland Security. Many of the laws ATF imposes on our personal freedoms need to be changed or dropped, like medical marijuana patients can't own guns. ATF needs to be de-militarized as well, other agencies can be inserted into a situation if needed.


NYTRON,

Since your about abortion for your candidate. GO FUCK YOURSELF!

Muthafucker Biden wants to codify ROE, He is for up to 3rd Trimester Bro. WTF? If you don't think that's murder your just as sick as him

The pro-life vs. pro-choice thing shouldn't be a binary issue where you have to pick either extreme, the correct answer is somewhere in the middle. i.e. Late term abortions shouldn't be allowed unless it is rape or a severe deformity. And birth control should be celebrated and encouraged.

The right demonizes birth control and planned parenthood as it relates to women's health. This is pure stupidity. This is something even Trump is against (at least he was in the primaries). Furthermore, states like Georgia are now imposing a 30 year prison sentence if a women has a miscarriage. This is barbaric.

Most dems are not radically pro-choice the same way the right is radically pro-life, thus I more closely align with Biden on this issue.

Regarding the third trimester thing, see these links:

newsweek.com/fact-check-does-joe-biden-support-late-term-abortion-until-birth-like-donald-trump-claimed-1536686

washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/04/28/fact-checking-trumps-comments-democrats-late-term-abortion/

Newsweek I wouldn’t believe. I stick with BBC news.

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-54003808

But ROE states until 28 weeks when the fetus can live outside the body. 
 

Come on, even after 21 weeks is bad enough. I’m for no abortions no matter what. If you get raped, I think that is a obstacle course that God gives you..not to kill a life though. 
 

I hope you understand my concerns as well

11 days ago
7/12/14
Posts: 2015
Nytron -

Regarding the verb "defund", are OGers still pretending that "defund" is a binary thing where we literally halt all funding?

Or can we actually have a conversation like adults?

For context, regarding what "defund the police" actually means, by Kenji Alt-Lopez:

==================================

It doesn't mean we should abolish the police. Rather, it means that right now, the police are expected to do work that falls far outside of what they are trained and hired to do. 90% of police responses are for non-violent events that, in most cases, would be better served by other trained professionals. Study after study has shown that increases in education budgets and social services are what lead to less crime and violence, not increases to police presence or budgets. Let the police focus on what they are good at, and leave the other stuff to people actually trained for the job. This would serve the dual purpose of bettering society as a whole, as well as decreasing the workload and stress of the police officers we do retain.

"Defund the police" really translates to "reallocate some of the budget currently used for police departments to programs that would decrease the workload on the police force, allow them to focus on the things they are actually good at, and get more people the kind of help they need, thereby reducing violent crime and violent confrontation to produce a win-win situation for all of society."*

It has worked in several cities, and it can work in many more.

If you want further reading, here are a number of sources that explain the concept. I'm including sources from across the political spectrum, as this should not be a partisan issue:

Brookings Institute (Centrist): https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2020/06/19/what-does-defund-the-police-mean-and-does-it-have-merit/
Fox Business (Right-leaning): https://www.foxbusiness.com/life />The Cut (Left-leaning): https://www.thecut.com/2020/06/what-does-defund-the-police-mean-the-phrase-explained.html
ACLU (Civil libertarian): https://www.aclu.org/news/criminal-law-reform/defunding-the-police-will-actually-make-us-safer/

note: Folks questioning the "90% of calls are for nonviolent crimes" stat, here is a New York Times article on it (you can think the NYT is a left wing publication, but their stats are accurately researched), which shows that cops spend less than 5% of their time on violent crimes, and that in most cities, less than 1% of calls are for violent crimes: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/19/up...

*with a few big exceptions, such as those who currently exploit the prison-industrial complex to gain capital through the incarceration of folks who could very easily be productive members of society if they were allowed to be.

==================================

Anyways, to answer OP's question: YES. ATF need to be gutted and should reallocate it's budget to focus almost entirely on more robust background checks, particularly to stop far right terrorists, which is the greatest threat our nation faces according to the FBI and Department of Homeland Security. Many of the laws ATF imposes on our personal freedoms need to be changed or dropped, like medical marijuana patients can't own guns. ATF needs to be de-militarized as well, other agencies can be inserted into a situation if needed.

So tell me how we get people to stop calling the police over every little thing? How does your social worker talk his way out of a domestic situation that escalates? I'm gonna break down what happens. 

 

Social workers start handling non violent calls. Non violent calls don't escalate for a while. Next thing you know, a non violent call escalates to knife wielding or gun point. Media says it's an isolated incident. Happens again. Now, certain non violent calls have social worker accompanied by a police escort for "safety". This keeps happening until a few more non violent situations REALLY escalate, stabbing, maybe gunfire. Now what? Social worker is trained to be a cop. Or cop is trained in social work. Back to square one. 

 

Nytron, crime and violence is a human condition. I'm not sure where or how you see that ending just because a social worker shows up. And if an arrest needs to be made, who is the social worker going to call? THE COPS!