OtherGround Forums Chernobyl on HBO looks awesome

8 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 80615
BigWilliam -
White347LX - All I know is they boil water, the steam spins a turbine which drives a generator and it makes my air conditioning work.

They might have been using Watts as a general term for power transfer, just as joules/sec. It's not specifically electrical even though it is used that way. It can be used to indicate heat transfer right?

Here’s the thing, the control room is packed full of instrumentation that all indicate direct measurements like pressure, flow, temperature, water height, level, DP, and none of it is a calculation.  The operators know what each measurement means and how to manipulate systems for expected results.  To have a display of watts representing thermal power in the vessel would go against all of that.  It would be like having warning lights instead of gauges in a race car.

Although, since it appears they had poorly trained and inexperienced operators in their control room it may also be representative of the Soviet culture which created that shitstorm.

8 days ago
12/29/03
Posts: 46399

They use watts in terms of thermal power, not actual electric output.

8 days ago
12/29/03
Posts: 46400

This is a great explanation and goes into more detail than the show.

 

 

8 days ago
3/26/13
Posts: 6934
White347LX -

Awesome show and that last episode was the money shot for me.

The *only* thing that bugs me is how they kept referring to power output instead of reactor pressure.  It's minor and I understand why they did it but I'm still surprised considering how factual the rest of the details were.

Also, I can't believe one man had so much power in their control room.  That guy would have been forcefully removed from any control room I've ever worked in.  The first time he raised his voice you would have seen someone pick up a phone to call security and another person leave the room to do the same, because redundancy is all important in nuclear power of course.

Were any of the control rooms you worked at located in communist Soviet Union?

8 days ago
3/26/13
Posts: 6935
ProteinOverdrive -
BigWilliam - This is an article by some physics types discussing the second steam explosion risk.

https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/480113/how-large-would-the-steam-explosion-at-chernobyl-have-been

They conclude the maximum explosion force from the water tanks would have been around 1 kiloton, far, far less than 2-4 megatons as stated in the show.

Yea, now they can state that. The show focuses on what they thought back then. There was no time to do research.

Exactly. Some people are acting like the show writers made all this stuff up when more than likely that is what the plant workers actually thought at that time.

8 days ago
3/7/05
Posts: 30968
El Duderino - 
ProteinOverdrive -
BigWilliam - This is an article by some physics types discussing the second steam explosion risk.

https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/480113/how-large-would-the-steam-explosion-at-chernobyl-have-been

They conclude the maximum explosion force from the water tanks would have been around 1 kiloton, far, far less than 2-4 megatons as stated in the show.

Yea, now they can state that. The show focuses on what they thought back then. There was no time to do research.

Exactly. Some people are acting like the show writers made all this stuff up when more than likely that is what the plant workers actually thought at that time.


It is also possible the show writers wanted to present it in a way to make it more dramatic. The naked miners for instance, there is nothing documented to show that they actually did that. But it made for good tv. They chose to omit Legasov's wife and daughter, added in him dying at the exact same time as the Chernobyl explosion. There is always a little dramatic license.
8 days ago
3/7/05
Posts: 30969
White347LX - 
BigWilliam -
White347LX - All I know is they boil water, the steam spins a turbine which drives a generator and it makes my air conditioning work.

They might have been using Watts as a general term for power transfer, just as joules/sec. It's not specifically electrical even though it is used that way. It can be used to indicate heat transfer right?

Here’s the thing, the control room is packed full of instrumentation that all indicate direct measurements like pressure, flow, temperature, water height, level, DP, and none of it is a calculation.  The operators know what each measurement means and how to manipulate systems for expected results.  To have a display of watts representing thermal power in the vessel would go against all of that.  It would be like having warning lights instead of gauges in a race car.

Although, since it appears they had poorly trained and inexperienced operators in their control room it may also be representative of the Soviet culture which created that shitstorm.


It could very well have just been a shorthand for the show. Easier to show one gauge and use it to represent the spiraling climb of reaction. I do know that articles reference the final recorded output being over 33,000 MW. Maybe that is why they focus on it on the show? In relation to that reference.
7 days ago
6/22/09
Posts: 19059
BigWilliam -
El Duderino - 
ProteinOverdrive -
BigWilliam - This is an article by some physics types discussing the second steam explosion risk.

https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/480113/how-large-would-the-steam-explosion-at-chernobyl-have-been

They conclude the maximum explosion force from the water tanks would have been around 1 kiloton, far, far less than 2-4 megatons as stated in the show.

Yea, now they can state that. The show focuses on what they thought back then. There was no time to do research.

Exactly. Some people are acting like the show writers made all this stuff up when more than likely that is what the plant workers actually thought at that time.


It is also possible the show writers wanted to present it in a way to make it more dramatic. The naked miners for instance, there is nothing documented to show that they actually did that. But it made for good tv. They chose to omit Legasov's wife and daughter, added in him dying at the exact same time as the Chernobyl explosion. There is always a little dramatic license.

Looks like they use a lot of dramatic license, at least according to this guy: 

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2019/06/11/top-ucla-doctor-denounces-depiction-of-radiation-in-hbos-chernobyl-as-wrong-and-dangerous/?fbclid=IwAR1RSIsmsbIJs3fJR-Y-360DsU8Lt9wRtJHyRpEvH4QTRbh9_qvFd2uCMhM#3b9004231e07

7 days ago
8/11/10
Posts: 769

I didn’t even realize this was based on a true story until the end of episode 5 when they explained what happened to some of the characters in the show. Let’s all hope it doesn’t happen again.

7 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 80629
Meohfumado - 
BigWilliam -
El Duderino - 
ProteinOverdrive -
BigWilliam - This is an article by some physics types discussing the second steam explosion risk.

https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/480113/how-large-would-the-steam-explosion-at-chernobyl-have-been

They conclude the maximum explosion force from the water tanks would have been around 1 kiloton, far, far less than 2-4 megatons as stated in the show.

Yea, now they can state that. The show focuses on what they thought back then. There was no time to do research.

Exactly. Some people are acting like the show writers made all this stuff up when more than likely that is what the plant workers actually thought at that time.


It is also possible the show writers wanted to present it in a way to make it more dramatic. The naked miners for instance, there is nothing documented to show that they actually did that. But it made for good tv. They chose to omit Legasov's wife and daughter, added in him dying at the exact same time as the Chernobyl explosion. There is always a little dramatic license.

Looks like they use a lot of dramatic license, at least according to this guy: 

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2019/06/11/top-ucla-doctor-denounces-depiction-of-radiation-in-hbos-chernobyl-as-wrong-and-dangerous/?fbclid=IwAR1RSIsmsbIJs3fJR-Y-360DsU8Lt9wRtJHyRpEvH4QTRbh9_qvFd2uCMhM#3b9004231e07


I do not question that doctor's knowledge of radiation poisoning but he himself twists some statements in that article. He compares the exposure of Chernobyl workers to radiation therapy patients? That's not even in the same ballpark to suggest controlled and focused exposure from a linear accelerator to the full body smokeshow those firefighters walked into.

That reminds of the Boris' line about, "They tell me it's about the same as a chest X ray." No, it's nothing like a controlled diagnostic imaging exposure!

He may be correct about the firefighters being contaminated, though. The first thing that happens to anyone in that situation is a total decontamination before they leave the site. Depending on the contamination that may include shaving hair or scrubbing layers of skin away until all the zoomies are gone.

I had a shitty haircut once after working under the pot in the drywell. Got doused with some crapped up water that made it through my rubber suit and my head lit up the dosimeter when I tried to leave the protected area. Had to shave about 25% of my hair to leave that day. If the firefighters were scrubbed clean then there should have been no exposure from their bodies and the wife's baby certainly would not have absorbed any noticable dose from being near by. It still made for a sad story in the show, though.
6 days ago
2/27/08
Posts: 1475
6 days ago
8/12/09
Posts: 11654
I just finished the series and thought it was awesome.
I've watched as many Chernobyl stories or mini-documentaries as I come across and I thought this was awesome.
6 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 18769

I listened to the entire official podcast series (Chernobyl, 5 episodes) on the show yesterday while on a flight. Each episode of the podcast corresponds to an episode of the HBO show. The shows creator and writer did a good job of explaining the research and filming process. Also go into what they took dramatic license with. 

 

6 days ago
2/27/13
Posts: 1316
The Dole Guy -

I didn’t even realize this was based on a true story until the end of episode 5 when they explained what happened to some of the characters in the show. Let’s all hope it doesn’t happen again.

Really? I'm surprised anyone would not have heard of the Chernobyl disaster before.

 

Mind if I ask how old you are? I ask as I remember it happening (I was 14 at the time) so my perception may be a bit skewed.

6 days ago
2/27/13
Posts: 1317
White347LX -
Meohfumado - 
BigWilliam -
El Duderino - 
ProteinOverdrive -
BigWilliam - This is an article by some physics types discussing the second steam explosion risk.

https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/480113/how-large-would-the-steam-explosion-at-chernobyl-have-been

They conclude the maximum explosion force from the water tanks would have been around 1 kiloton, far, far less than 2-4 megatons as stated in the show.

Yea, now they can state that. The show focuses on what they thought back then. There was no time to do research.

Exactly. Some people are acting like the show writers made all this stuff up when more than likely that is what the plant workers actually thought at that time.


It is also possible the show writers wanted to present it in a way to make it more dramatic. The naked miners for instance, there is nothing documented to show that they actually did that. But it made for good tv. They chose to omit Legasov's wife and daughter, added in him dying at the exact same time as the Chernobyl explosion. There is always a little dramatic license.

Looks like they use a lot of dramatic license, at least according to this guy: 

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2019/06/11/top-ucla-doctor-denounces-depiction-of-radiation-in-hbos-chernobyl-as-wrong-and-dangerous/?fbclid=IwAR1RSIsmsbIJs3fJR-Y-360DsU8Lt9wRtJHyRpEvH4QTRbh9_qvFd2uCMhM#3b9004231e07


I do not question that doctor's knowledge of radiation poisoning but he himself twists some statements in that article. He compares the exposure of Chernobyl workers to radiation therapy patients? That's not even in the same ballpark to suggest controlled and focused exposure from a linear accelerator to the full body smokeshow those firefighters walked into.

That reminds of the Boris' line about, "They tell me it's about the same as a chest X ray." No, it's nothing like a controlled diagnostic imaging exposure!

He may be correct about the firefighters being contaminated, though. The first thing that happens to anyone in that situation is a total decontamination before they leave the site. Depending on the contamination that may include shaving hair or scrubbing layers of skin away until all the zoomies are gone.

I had a shitty haircut once after working under the pot in the drywell. Got doused with some crapped up water that made it through my rubber suit and my head lit up the dosimeter when I tried to leave the protected area. Had to shave about 25% of my hair to leave that day. If the firefighters were scrubbed clean then there should have been no exposure from their bodies and the wife's baby certainly would not have absorbed any noticable dose from being near by. It still made for a sad story in the show, though.

He also quotes some bullshit statistics, claiming that “About 1 million Egyptians are estimated to have become blind from trachoma because of construction of the Aswan High Dam."

 

I was surprised that I hadn't heard anything about this, so I did some checking. It turns out that trachoma was endemic in Egypt back when the first Aswan Dam was constructed over 60 years prior, and the spread (and subsequent treatment and near eradication) of the disease wasn't influenced by the building of any dam.

6 days ago
2/6/12
Posts: 6803
Banjaxo -
The Dole Guy -

I didn’t even realize this was based on a true story until the end of episode 5 when they explained what happened to some of the characters in the show. Let’s all hope it doesn’t happen again.

Really? I'm surprised anyone would not have heard of the Chernobyl disaster before.

 

Mind if I ask how old you are? I ask as I remember it happening (I was 14 at the time) so my perception may be a bit skewed.

My wife is 28 and never heard of it either. I don’t remember much of it being taught in school.

6 days ago
9/14/17
Posts: 214
mje364 -
Banjaxo -
The Dole Guy -

I didn’t even realize this was based on a true story until the end of episode 5 when they explained what happened to some of the characters in the show. Let’s all hope it doesn’t happen again.

Really? I'm surprised anyone would not have heard of the Chernobyl disaster before.

 

Mind if I ask how old you are? I ask as I remember it happening (I was 14 at the time) so my perception may be a bit skewed.

My wife is 28 and never heard of it either. I don’t remember much of it being taught in school.

That’s crazy, I’m 27 and learned it in high school 

6 days ago
2/11/03
Posts: 39998
Stack of Bibles - 
mje364 -
Banjaxo -
The Dole Guy -

I didn’t even realize this was based on a true story until the end of episode 5 when they explained what happened to some of the characters in the show. Let’s all hope it doesn’t happen again.

Really? I'm surprised anyone would not have heard of the Chernobyl disaster before.

 

Mind if I ask how old you are? I ask as I remember it happening (I was 14 at the time) so my perception may be a bit skewed.

My wife is 28 and never heard of it either. I don’t remember much of it being taught in school.

That’s crazy, I’m 27 and learned it in high school 


37 here and I definitely learned about it.
6 days ago
3/7/05
Posts: 30990
White347LX - 
Meohfumado - 
BigWilliam -
El Duderino - 
ProteinOverdrive -
BigWilliam - This is an article by some physics types discussing the second steam explosion risk.

https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/480113/how-large-would-the-steam-explosion-at-chernobyl-have-been

They conclude the maximum explosion force from the water tanks would have been around 1 kiloton, far, far less than 2-4 megatons as stated in the show.

Yea, now they can state that. The show focuses on what they thought back then. There was no time to do research.

Exactly. Some people are acting like the show writers made all this stuff up when more than likely that is what the plant workers actually thought at that time.


It is also possible the show writers wanted to present it in a way to make it more dramatic. The naked miners for instance, there is nothing documented to show that they actually did that. But it made for good tv. They chose to omit Legasov's wife and daughter, added in him dying at the exact same time as the Chernobyl explosion. There is always a little dramatic license.

Looks like they use a lot of dramatic license, at least according to this guy: 

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2019/06/11/top-ucla-doctor-denounces-depiction-of-radiation-in-hbos-chernobyl-as-wrong-and-dangerous/?fbclid=IwAR1RSIsmsbIJs3fJR-Y-360DsU8Lt9wRtJHyRpEvH4QTRbh9_qvFd2uCMhM#3b9004231e07


I do not question that doctor's knowledge of radiation poisoning but he himself twists some statements in that article. He compares the exposure of Chernobyl workers to radiation therapy patients? That's not even in the same ballpark to suggest controlled and focused exposure from a linear accelerator to the full body smokeshow those firefighters walked into.

That reminds of the Boris' line about, "They tell me it's about the same as a chest X ray." No, it's nothing like a controlled diagnostic imaging exposure!

He may be correct about the firefighters being contaminated, though. The first thing that happens to anyone in that situation is a total decontamination before they leave the site. Depending on the contamination that may include shaving hair or scrubbing layers of skin away until all the zoomies are gone.

I had a shitty haircut once after working under the pot in the drywell. Got doused with some crapped up water that made it through my rubber suit and my head lit up the dosimeter when I tried to leave the protected area. Had to shave about 25% of my hair to leave that day. If the firefighters were scrubbed clean then there should have been no exposure from their bodies and the wife's baby certainly would not have absorbed any noticable dose from being near by. It still made for a sad story in the show, though.

I am questioning that doctor's sanity. "In doing haematopoietic cell transplant, we commonly expose people to much higher radiation doses than received by any of the Chernobyl victims." That seems not just unlikely but ridiculous. Those firefighters were near an open reactor that had spewed chunks of it's guts all over the ground. There is no way they 'commonly' expose people to higher doses than that.
6 days ago
6/3/09
Posts: 12670
The Dole Guy -

I didn’t even realize this was based on a true story until the end of episode 5 when they explained what happened to some of the characters in the show. Let’s all hope it doesn’t happen again.

Have you ever seen the movie Titanic?

 

 

 

Guess what…
 

6 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 80640
BigWilliam - 
White347LX - 
Meohfumado - 
BigWilliam -
El Duderino - 
ProteinOverdrive -
BigWilliam - This is an article by some physics types discussing the second steam explosion risk.

https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/480113/how-large-would-the-steam-explosion-at-chernobyl-have-been

They conclude the maximum explosion force from the water tanks would have been around 1 kiloton, far, far less than 2-4 megatons as stated in the show.

Yea, now they can state that. The show focuses on what they thought back then. There was no time to do research.

Exactly. Some people are acting like the show writers made all this stuff up when more than likely that is what the plant workers actually thought at that time.


It is also possible the show writers wanted to present it in a way to make it more dramatic. The naked miners for instance, there is nothing documented to show that they actually did that. But it made for good tv. They chose to omit Legasov's wife and daughter, added in him dying at the exact same time as the Chernobyl explosion. There is always a little dramatic license.

Looks like they use a lot of dramatic license, at least according to this guy: 

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2019/06/11/top-ucla-doctor-denounces-depiction-of-radiation-in-hbos-chernobyl-as-wrong-and-dangerous/?fbclid=IwAR1RSIsmsbIJs3fJR-Y-360DsU8Lt9wRtJHyRpEvH4QTRbh9_qvFd2uCMhM#3b9004231e07


I do not question that doctor's knowledge of radiation poisoning but he himself twists some statements in that article. He compares the exposure of Chernobyl workers to radiation therapy patients? That's not even in the same ballpark to suggest controlled and focused exposure from a linear accelerator to the full body smokeshow those firefighters walked into.

That reminds of the Boris' line about, "They tell me it's about the same as a chest X ray." No, it's nothing like a controlled diagnostic imaging exposure!

He may be correct about the firefighters being contaminated, though. The first thing that happens to anyone in that situation is a total decontamination before they leave the site. Depending on the contamination that may include shaving hair or scrubbing layers of skin away until all the zoomies are gone.

I had a shitty haircut once after working under the pot in the drywell. Got doused with some crapped up water that made it through my rubber suit and my head lit up the dosimeter when I tried to leave the protected area. Had to shave about 25% of my hair to leave that day. If the firefighters were scrubbed clean then there should have been no exposure from their bodies and the wife's baby certainly would not have absorbed any noticable dose from being near by. It still made for a sad story in the show, though.

I am questioning that doctor's sanity. "In doing haematopoietic cell transplant, we commonly expose people to much higher radiation doses than received by any of the Chernobyl victims." That seems not just unlikely but ridiculous. Those firefighters were near an open reactor that had spewed chunks of it's guts all over the ground. There is no way they 'commonly' expose people to higher doses than that.

I'd like to hear him explain himself, that's for sure. I'm no hematologist but I can't imagine they use much radiation in the marrow transplant process. I do know a Oncologist/Hematologist who I sent that link to. She's a big fan of the Chernobyl show so she probably has something to say about it.

He specifically says dose but does not explain the context which means he could be using his own interpretation of equivalent dose which means nothing to the rest of us. Maybe he can cough up some actual exposure rates to impress us but I seriously doubt it.
6 days ago
7/4/10
Posts: 9940
Curtis_E_Bare -
The Dole Guy -

I didn’t even realize this was based on a true story until the end of episode 5 when they explained what happened to some of the characters in the show. Let’s all hope it doesn’t happen again.

Have you ever seen the movie Titanic?

 

 

 

Guess what…
 

Bro you ever see that movie Bowling for Columbine? 

Guess what ?! 

6 days ago
9/22/16
Posts: 16414
SergesBeefyHopeFlaps - 

What a great finish. I completely take back my previous complaint about episode one starting too late into the story.

The way they explained the course of events during the trial was perfect, especially the scientific part. The xenon poisoning is something most people don't know about.

It also really shows why every Russian ex-pat hates communism. The state controls all, they put unqualified people in control, and everything is about quote and productivity. It is why I get so furious when I hear kids these days spouting off how great communism is. My father can't control himself either when he hears people talk about it.

Well, fucking, done.

I have mastered the art of crying out of only my right eye, because my wife would see my tears if I cried in the left. I had so sniffle once and right away she looked at me and asked if I was crying. It was the most stoic "No" I've ever said.

Amazing show.

Especially considering I may start working for a nuclear power company in the next few months.


Agreed.

Down in Venezuela, Maduro was a fucking bus driver. I don't knock any working man for simply earning a living, but I'm not taking someone off the cleaning crew and putting them in charge of my medical practice.
5 days ago
8/11/10
Posts: 770
Banjaxo -
The Dole Guy -

I didn’t even realize this was based on a true story until the end of episode 5 when they explained what happened to some of the characters in the show. Let’s all hope it doesn’t happen again.

Really? I'm surprised anyone would not have heard of the Chernobyl disaster before.

 

Mind if I ask how old you are? I ask as I remember it happening (I was 14 at the time) so my perception may be a bit skewed.

I am 35 years old and have never heard of this event until last week. You would think they would of realized the dangers fusion power causes and banned them worldwide after Chernobyl. Lucky (as far as I know lol) no other reactors since have ever had issues such as this. 

 

Lets hope for all our sakes it stays that way!

5 days ago
11/5/03
Posts: 21254
The Dole Guy -
Banjaxo -
The Dole Guy -

I didn’t even realize this was based on a true story until the end of episode 5 when they explained what happened to some of the characters in the show. Let’s all hope it doesn’t happen again.

Really? I'm surprised anyone would not have heard of the Chernobyl disaster before.

 

Mind if I ask how old you are? I ask as I remember it happening (I was 14 at the time) so my perception may be a bit skewed.

I am 35 years old and have never heard of this event until last week. You would think they would of realized the dangers fusion power causes and banned them worldwide after Chernobyl. Lucky (as far as I know lol) no other reactors since have ever had issues such as this. 

 

Lets hope for all our sakes it stays that way!

 

 

Notsureifserious.jpg