OtherGround Forums Climate "Experts" 0-41 With Doomsday Predictions!

9/23/19 9:10 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 4603
Junnk -
ziggystardust -
kinson -
Huntsman -

I have survived the cold war, the hole in the ozone layer, the millennium bug, global cooling, mad cow disease, acid rain, 2012, global warming, Ebola, Zika virus, Iraq's WMDs, peak oil and even 3 years of president Trump.

 

Maybe "climate change" will be the one to finally get me, unless the plastic straws get me first.

Post of the year right here

Not really. Pointing out sensationalism in MSM is one thing. Mixing issues and drawing the conclusion that they're all the same is another.

The ozone layer hole and acid rain was dealt with through international agreements and legislation. Much like CC activists wants to do in regard to carbon dioxide.

And mixing the cold war in there... I don't know. I guess you guys don't know about some of the very close calls during that era.

It's like the boy who cried wolf again. Except there was a wolf there a couple of the times, but it was chased away. And now some people take as proof, that since no sheep have been killed so far, wolves don't exist. 

Only a tax will save us! 

As I wrote on the other climate thread:

There's a lot of actions that need to be taken and carbon taxes is one of them. Taxes are by definition punitive and that's how they should be used. Lower taxes on labour and capital, increase them on cigarettes, sugar, oil, carbon dioxide etc. 

Any honest politician who proposes carbon tax should propose a balanced lowering of other taxes. That's not how politicians work though, but it's not the fault of carbon tax and it demands a vigilant electorate. 

9/23/19 9:13 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 4604
Junnk -
Josh -
Junnk - 
ziggystardust -
kinson -
Huntsman -

I have survived the cold war, the hole in the ozone layer, the millennium bug, global cooling, mad cow disease, acid rain, 2012, global warming, Ebola, Zika virus, Iraq's WMDs, peak oil and even 3 years of president Trump.

 

Maybe "climate change" will be the one to finally get me, unless the plastic straws get me first.

Post of the year right here

Not really. Pointing out sensationalism in MSM is one thing. Mixing issues and drawing the conclusion that they're all the same is another.

The ozone layer hole and acid rain was dealt with through international agreements and legislation. Much like CC activists wants to do in regard to carbon dioxide.

And mixing the cold war in there... I don't know. I guess you guys don't know about some of the very close calls during that era.

It's like the boy who cried wolf again. Except there was a wolf there a couple of the times, but it was chased away. And now some people take as proof, that since no sheep have been killed so far, wolves don't exist. 

Only a tax will save us! 


So you don't believe in it because of a tax?

Who knows

What I do know is that a tax won't fix it. 

We could have 0 carbon footprint and it wouldn't matter since the biggest polluters are China and india 

 

 

 

Only due to population size. Americans are by far the biggest contributors per person. China and India are also increasing their prevention activities.

This is why international cooperation is so important when it comes to climate change. 

9/23/19 9:17 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 4605
camicom -
Junnk -
Josh -
Junnk - 
ziggystardust -
kinson -
Huntsman -

I have survived the cold war, the hole in the ozone layer, the millennium bug, global cooling, mad cow disease, acid rain, 2012, global warming, Ebola, Zika virus, Iraq's WMDs, peak oil and even 3 years of president Trump.

 

Maybe "climate change" will be the one to finally get me, unless the plastic straws get me first.

Post of the year right here

Not really. Pointing out sensationalism in MSM is one thing. Mixing issues and drawing the conclusion that they're all the same is another.

The ozone layer hole and acid rain was dealt with through international agreements and legislation. Much like CC activists wants to do in regard to carbon dioxide.

And mixing the cold war in there... I don't know. I guess you guys don't know about some of the very close calls during that era.

It's like the boy who cried wolf again. Except there was a wolf there a couple of the times, but it was chased away. And now some people take as proof, that since no sheep have been killed so far, wolves don't exist. 

Only a tax will save us! 


So you don't believe in it because of a tax?

Who knows

What I do know is that a tax won't fix it. 

We could have 0 carbon footprint and it wouldn't matter since the biggest polluters are China and india 

 

 

 

The situation reminds me of the "non smoking" sections they used to have in restaurants. Unless everyone is on board, it makes very little difference.

Good comparison. I don't know anyone who's not happy about the smoking ban. Yet the free market didn't manage to introduce it. It took government regulation to get people what they wanted and was healthy for them.

How's the source criticism of the original post going by the way? 

9/23/19 1:22 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 60864

Just change the goal posts

9/23/19 2:12 PM
12/2/02
Posts: 32990

The best tactic for keeping a population under control is keeping them afraid of something.

9/23/19 6:33 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 12221
Junnk - 
Josh -
Junnk - 
Josh -
Junnk - 
ziggystardust -
kinson -
Huntsman -

I have survived the cold war, the hole in the ozone layer, the millennium bug, global cooling, mad cow disease, acid rain, 2012, global warming, Ebola, Zika virus, Iraq's WMDs, peak oil and even 3 years of president Trump.

 

Maybe "climate change" will be the one to finally get me, unless the plastic straws get me first.

Post of the year right here

Not really. Pointing out sensationalism in MSM is one thing. Mixing issues and drawing the conclusion that they're all the same is another.

The ozone layer hole and acid rain was dealt with through international agreements and legislation. Much like CC activists wants to do in regard to carbon dioxide.

And mixing the cold war in there... I don't know. I guess you guys don't know about some of the very close calls during that era.

It's like the boy who cried wolf again. Except there was a wolf there a couple of the times, but it was chased away. And now some people take as proof, that since no sheep have been killed so far, wolves don't exist. 

Only a tax will save us! 


So you don't believe in it because of a tax?

Who knows

What I do know is that a tax won't fix it. 

We could have 0 carbon footprint and it wouldn't matter since the biggest polluters are China and india 

 

 

 


Not sure about that do you have a stat or something. Also I know China is trying to change this

You need a stat that shows dollars don't magically fix the environment? 

Throw a dollar in the air and see if it does something

 

Companies hit with the huge tax increase will lay off people, increase prices and/or move to places where environmental laws are nonexistent

We end paying more, corrupt govt gets more of our money and the environment still gets trashed. 

 

 


I meant India and China are worse then the USA.
9/23/19 10:39 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 60871

 

9/23/19 10:39 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 60872

OP stole Gretas childhood

9/23/19 10:55 PM
10/16/10
Posts: 28804
Tim Duncan - 

OP stole Gretas childhood


How dare you OP?!
9/24/19 12:19 AM
1/25/07
Posts: 2713
ziggystardust -
Junnk -
ziggystardust -
kinson -
Huntsman -

I have survived the cold war, the hole in the ozone layer, the millennium bug, global cooling, mad cow disease, acid rain, 2012, global warming, Ebola, Zika virus, Iraq's WMDs, peak oil and even 3 years of president Trump.

 

Maybe "climate change" will be the one to finally get me, unless the plastic straws get me first.

Post of the year right here

Not really. Pointing out sensationalism in MSM is one thing. Mixing issues and drawing the conclusion that they're all the same is another.

The ozone layer hole and acid rain was dealt with through international agreements and legislation. Much like CC activists wants to do in regard to carbon dioxide.

And mixing the cold war in there... I don't know. I guess you guys don't know about some of the very close calls during that era.

It's like the boy who cried wolf again. Except there was a wolf there a couple of the times, but it was chased away. And now some people take as proof, that since no sheep have been killed so far, wolves don't exist. 

Only a tax will save us! 

As I wrote on the other climate thread:

There's a lot of actions that need to be taken and carbon taxes is one of them. Taxes are by definition punitive and that's how they should be used. Lower taxes on labour and capital, increase them on cigarettes, sugar, oil, carbon dioxide etc. 

Any honest politician who proposes carbon tax should propose a balanced lowering of other taxes. That's not how politicians work though, but it's not the fault of carbon tax and it demands a vigilant electorate. 

great post I agree

9/24/19 1:24 AM
11/1/06
Posts: 2174
Junnk -
Josh -
Junnk - 
Josh -
Junnk - 
ziggystardust -
kinson -
Huntsman -

I have survived the cold war, the hole in the ozone layer, the millennium bug, global cooling, mad cow disease, acid rain, 2012, global warming, Ebola, Zika virus, Iraq's WMDs, peak oil and even 3 years of president Trump.

 

Maybe "climate change" will be the one to finally get me, unless the plastic straws get me first.

Post of the year right here

Not really. Pointing out sensationalism in MSM is one thing. Mixing issues and drawing the conclusion that they're all the same is another.

The ozone layer hole and acid rain was dealt with through international agreements and legislation. Much like CC activists wants to do in regard to carbon dioxide.

And mixing the cold war in there... I don't know. I guess you guys don't know about some of the very close calls during that era.

It's like the boy who cried wolf again. Except there was a wolf there a couple of the times, but it was chased away. And now some people take as proof, that since no sheep have been killed so far, wolves don't exist. 

Only a tax will save us! 


So you don't believe in it because of a tax?

Who knows

What I do know is that a tax won't fix it. 

We could have 0 carbon footprint and it wouldn't matter since the biggest polluters are China and india 

 

 

 


Not sure about that do you have a stat or something. Also I know China is trying to change this

You need a stat that shows dollars don't magically fix the environment? 

Throw a dollar in the air and see if it does something

 

Companies hit with the huge tax increase will lay off people, increase prices and/or move to places where environmental laws are nonexistent

We end paying more, corrupt govt gets more of our money and the environment still gets trashed. 

 

 

When Australia implemented a carbon cap system, the economy stayed in positive growth and emissions went down. 

Of course once the conservatives got into power they killed it off, and emissions rose again. 

I don't understand why people are opposed to a carbon tax. It forces companies to improve their operations a reduce pollution of face a fine. It also levels the field for more green alternatives, driving investment which will see technology improvements. For all conservatives talk about hating governments, you'd think they would actually approve of a market based system like Carbon credits.

9/24/19 1:42 AM
10/16/10
Posts: 28805
Thelonious - 
ziggystardust -
Junnk -
ziggystardust -
kinson -
Huntsman -

I have survived the cold war, the hole in the ozone layer, the millennium bug, global cooling, mad cow disease, acid rain, 2012, global warming, Ebola, Zika virus, Iraq's WMDs, peak oil and even 3 years of president Trump.

 

Maybe "climate change" will be the one to finally get me, unless the plastic straws get me first.

Post of the year right here

Not really. Pointing out sensationalism in MSM is one thing. Mixing issues and drawing the conclusion that they're all the same is another.

The ozone layer hole and acid rain was dealt with through international agreements and legislation. Much like CC activists wants to do in regard to carbon dioxide.

And mixing the cold war in there... I don't know. I guess you guys don't know about some of the very close calls during that era.

It's like the boy who cried wolf again. Except there was a wolf there a couple of the times, but it was chased away. And now some people take as proof, that since no sheep have been killed so far, wolves don't exist. 

Only a tax will save us! 

As I wrote on the other climate thread:

There's a lot of actions that need to be taken and carbon taxes is one of them. Taxes are by definition punitive and that's how they should be used. Lower taxes on labour and capital, increase them on cigarettes, sugar, oil, carbon dioxide etc. 

Any honest politician who proposes carbon tax should propose a balanced lowering of other taxes. That's not how politicians work though, but it's not the fault of carbon tax and it demands a vigilant electorate. 

great post I agree


Sure, if your goal is to increase global emissions.

You cannot enact tougher standards or carbon taxes in western countries until you have ironclad agreements and enforceable penalties on China and India, or you are simply giving them a comparative advantage and creating a financial incentive for big polluters to move operations to those countries. Then you will have lost your regulatory oversight and leverage over those countries.
9/24/19 1:48 AM
10/16/10
Posts: 28806
...while weakening our economies at the same time. It's hasty and shortsighted policy.
9/24/19 5:15 AM
11/1/06
Posts: 2175
Stache - ...while weakening our economies at the same time. It's hasty and shortsighted policy.

At least China and India are actually investing in green technologies and don't have a leader who is trying to promote coal and actively rolling back regulations on cleaner cars, cleaner air and cleaner water.

9/24/19 8:51 AM
10/16/10
Posts: 28807
LoveToChoke -
Stache - ...while weakening our economies at the same time. It's hasty and shortsighted policy.

At least China and India are actually investing in green technologies and don't have a leader who is trying to promote coal and actively rolling back regulations on cleaner cars, cleaner air and cleaner water.

Dramatic surge in China carbon emissions signals climate danger

30.05.2018 by Zach Boren and Harri Lammi

 

China’s carbon emissions growth has accelerated since the beginning of the year, leading to warnings that the country could be headed for its largest annual increase in climate pollution since 2011.

Led by increased demand for coal, oil and gas, China’s CO2 emissions for the first three months of 2018 were 4% higher than they were for the same period in 2017, according to an Unearthed analysis of new government figures.

Analysts have suggested the country’s carbon emissions could rise this year by 5% — the largest annual increase in seven years, back when the airpocalypse was at its peak.

This latest uptick in carbon emissions was unexpected. Many thought the government’s 2016 stimulus – which kicked off a construction surge fueled by coal-burning industries – was a temporary state of affairs, following years of falling coal use and carbon emissions.

But big spending on energy intensive industries persisted through 2017, meaning China has been backsliding on the climate progress it made earlier this decade and the rest of the world must redouble efforts simply to ensure global CO2 emissions don’t climb dramatically.

[...]

Debt stimulus driving industrial surge

As China’s emissions were leveling off and coal demand was falling fast, in 2013-15, coal, steel, power and other heavy industry companies started to struggle financially. These usually state-owned companies are saddled with overcapacity and excessive debt levels after they spent massive amounts of capital to stimulate the economy for the best part of the past decade.

Local governments, dependent on land sales for their revenue, and with local economies reliant on stimulus spending and smokestack industry jobs, were also ill-equipped for the transition. This financial distress made it clear that the economy was much less ready for the ambitious economic transformation than Beijing had assumed under the slogan of economic “New Normal”.

Furthermore, with president Xi focusing on consolidating his political position in the late 2017 party congress, there was no room for economic hiccups that could create internal discontent in the Party.

In response, the government unleashed a wave of stimulus that saw the reliance of the economy on government-directed spending and on inflated real estate sectors increase, in direct contrast to the aims of China’s economic transformation. In fact, the economy remains as dependent on real estate bubble and government-driven construction projects as ever, with 1/3 of this year’s GDP target expected to be delivered by a further increase in capital spending, above current very high levels.

CO2 emissions have followed the total volume of new debt closely with a time lag of about 12 months – after emissions started falling due to the global financial crisis in 2008, an unprecedented wave of credit started pushing emissions up even faster in early 2010. When that wave of stimulus started to run out in early 2013, it took a year for CO2 emissions to begin to fall. The next wave of stimulus started during the second half of 2015, and emissions started rebounding in early 2016. Now the amount of new credit (“Total Social Financing”, TSF) seems to have peaked in late 2017, but emissions are still on the upswing.

 

https://unearthed.greenpeace.org/2018/05/30/china-co2-carbon-climate-emissions-rise-in-2018/

 

 

9/24/19 8:57 AM
11/1/06
Posts: 2181
Stache -
LoveToChoke -
Stache - ...while weakening our economies at the same time. It's hasty and shortsighted policy.

At least China and India are actually investing in green technologies and don't have a leader who is trying to promote coal and actively rolling back regulations on cleaner cars, cleaner air and cleaner water.

Dramatic surge in China carbon emissions signals climate danger

30.05.2018 by Zach Boren and Harri Lammi

 

China’s carbon emissions growth has accelerated since the beginning of the year, leading to warnings that the country could be headed for its largest annual increase in climate pollution since 2011.

Led by increased demand for coal, oil and gas, China’s CO2 emissions for the first three months of 2018 were 4% higher than they were for the same period in 2017, according to an Unearthed analysis of new government figures.

Analysts have suggested the country’s carbon emissions could rise this year by 5% — the largest annual increase in seven years, back when the airpocalypse was at its peak.

This latest uptick in carbon emissions was unexpected. Many thought the government’s 2016 stimulus – which kicked off a construction surge fueled by coal-burning industries – was a temporary state of affairs, following years of falling coal use and carbon emissions.

But big spending on energy intensive industries persisted through 2017, meaning China has been backsliding on the climate progress it made earlier this decade and the rest of the world must redouble efforts simply to ensure global CO2 emissions don’t climb dramatically.

[...]

Debt stimulus driving industrial surge

As China’s emissions were leveling off and coal demand was falling fast, in 2013-15, coal, steel, power and other heavy industry companies started to struggle financially. These usually state-owned companies are saddled with overcapacity and excessive debt levels after they spent massive amounts of capital to stimulate the economy for the best part of the past decade.

Local governments, dependent on land sales for their revenue, and with local economies reliant on stimulus spending and smokestack industry jobs, were also ill-equipped for the transition. This financial distress made it clear that the economy was much less ready for the ambitious economic transformation than Beijing had assumed under the slogan of economic “New Normal”.

Furthermore, with president Xi focusing on consolidating his political position in the late 2017 party congress, there was no room for economic hiccups that could create internal discontent in the Party.

In response, the government unleashed a wave of stimulus that saw the reliance of the economy on government-directed spending and on inflated real estate sectors increase, in direct contrast to the aims of China’s economic transformation. In fact, the economy remains as dependent on real estate bubble and government-driven construction projects as ever, with 1/3 of this year’s GDP target expected to be delivered by a further increase in capital spending, above current very high levels.

CO2 emissions have followed the total volume of new debt closely with a time lag of about 12 months – after emissions started falling due to the global financial crisis in 2008, an unprecedented wave of credit started pushing emissions up even faster in early 2010. When that wave of stimulus started to run out in early 2013, it took a year for CO2 emissions to begin to fall. The next wave of stimulus started during the second half of 2015, and emissions started rebounding in early 2016. Now the amount of new credit (“Total Social Financing”, TSF) seems to have peaked in late 2017, but emissions are still on the upswing.

 

https://unearthed.greenpeace.org/2018/05/30/china-co2-carbon-climate-emissions-rise-in-2018/

 

 

Why should I trust the word of a bunch of hippies?

9/24/19 8:58 AM
1/2/15
Posts: 8513
ziggystardust -
Junnk -
Josh -
Junnk - 
ziggystardust -
kinson -
Huntsman -

I have survived the cold war, the hole in the ozone layer, the millennium bug, global cooling, mad cow disease, acid rain, 2012, global warming, Ebola, Zika virus, Iraq's WMDs, peak oil and even 3 years of president Trump.

 

Maybe "climate change" will be the one to finally get me, unless the plastic straws get me first.

Post of the year right here

Not really. Pointing out sensationalism in MSM is one thing. Mixing issues and drawing the conclusion that they're all the same is another.

The ozone layer hole and acid rain was dealt with through international agreements and legislation. Much like CC activists wants to do in regard to carbon dioxide.

And mixing the cold war in there... I don't know. I guess you guys don't know about some of the very close calls during that era.

It's like the boy who cried wolf again. Except there was a wolf there a couple of the times, but it was chased away. And now some people take as proof, that since no sheep have been killed so far, wolves don't exist. 

Only a tax will save us! 


So you don't believe in it because of a tax?

Who knows

What I do know is that a tax won't fix it. 

We could have 0 carbon footprint and it wouldn't matter since the biggest polluters are China and india 

 

 

 

Only due to population size. Americans are by far the biggest contributors per person. China and India are also increasing their prevention activities.

This is why international cooperation is so important when it comes to climate change. 

Hahaha so it's not about the amount of pollution but the amount each person puts out?

 

I doubt the environment cares if it's 1 person polluting or 1 billion. The result is pollution. 

China and india are the biggest polluters. 

9/24/19 9:00 AM
10/16/10
Posts: 28808

Xi doesn't give a shit about the global environment.  All he cares about is retaining power by avoiding mass revolts and internal coups.  That means he will always prioritize economic growth over any type of emissions standards and climate agreements.  

He also has a history of making promises in order to buy time and appease western leaders who he knows will only be in office temporarily.  Therefore it is imperative to establish agreements that he cannot violate without severe penalties, and as I understand it, given current international law, they would be difficult to enforce. 

9/24/19 9:01 AM
1/2/15
Posts: 8514
LoveToChoke -
Junnk -
Josh -
Junnk - 
Josh -
Junnk - 
ziggystardust -
kinson -
Huntsman -

I have survived the cold war, the hole in the ozone layer, the millennium bug, global cooling, mad cow disease, acid rain, 2012, global warming, Ebola, Zika virus, Iraq's WMDs, peak oil and even 3 years of president Trump.

 

Maybe "climate change" will be the one to finally get me, unless the plastic straws get me first.

Post of the year right here

Not really. Pointing out sensationalism in MSM is one thing. Mixing issues and drawing the conclusion that they're all the same is another.

The ozone layer hole and acid rain was dealt with through international agreements and legislation. Much like CC activists wants to do in regard to carbon dioxide.

And mixing the cold war in there... I don't know. I guess you guys don't know about some of the very close calls during that era.

It's like the boy who cried wolf again. Except there was a wolf there a couple of the times, but it was chased away. And now some people take as proof, that since no sheep have been killed so far, wolves don't exist. 

Only a tax will save us! 


So you don't believe in it because of a tax?

Who knows

What I do know is that a tax won't fix it. 

We could have 0 carbon footprint and it wouldn't matter since the biggest polluters are China and india 

 

 

 


Not sure about that do you have a stat or something. Also I know China is trying to change this

You need a stat that shows dollars don't magically fix the environment? 

Throw a dollar in the air and see if it does something

 

Companies hit with the huge tax increase will lay off people, increase prices and/or move to places where environmental laws are nonexistent

We end paying more, corrupt govt gets more of our money and the environment still gets trashed. 

 

 

When Australia implemented a carbon cap system, the economy stayed in positive growth and emissions went down. 

Of course once the conservatives got into power they killed it off, and emissions rose again. 

I don't understand why people are opposed to a carbon tax. It forces companies to improve their operations a reduce pollution of face a fine. It also levels the field for more green alternatives, driving investment which will see technology improvements. For all conservatives talk about hating governments, you'd think they would actually approve of a market based system like Carbon credits.

It forces companies to raise their prices and pass on the extra cost to the consumer. 

The result is govt gets more money, everything is more expensive and the pollution remains the same 

Why would conservatives want to give more money to govt? How is that a conservative trait lol 

9/24/19 9:02 AM
1/2/15
Posts: 8515
Stache -
LoveToChoke -
Stache - ...while weakening our economies at the same time. It's hasty and shortsighted policy.

At least China and India are actually investing in green technologies and don't have a leader who is trying to promote coal and actively rolling back regulations on cleaner cars, cleaner air and cleaner water.

Dramatic surge in China carbon emissions signals climate danger

30.05.2018 by Zach Boren and Harri Lammi

 

China’s carbon emissions growth has accelerated since the beginning of the year, leading to warnings that the country could be headed for its largest annual increase in climate pollution since 2011.

Led by increased demand for coal, oil and gas, China’s CO2 emissions for the first three months of 2018 were 4% higher than they were for the same period in 2017, according to an Unearthed analysis of new government figures.

Analysts have suggested the country’s carbon emissions could rise this year by 5% — the largest annual increase in seven years, back when the airpocalypse was at its peak.

This latest uptick in carbon emissions was unexpected. Many thought the government’s 2016 stimulus – which kicked off a construction surge fueled by coal-burning industries – was a temporary state of affairs, following years of falling coal use and carbon emissions.

But big spending on energy intensive industries persisted through 2017, meaning China has been backsliding on the climate progress it made earlier this decade and the rest of the world must redouble efforts simply to ensure global CO2 emissions don’t climb dramatically.

[...]

Debt stimulus driving industrial surge

As China’s emissions were leveling off and coal demand was falling fast, in 2013-15, coal, steel, power and other heavy industry companies started to struggle financially. These usually state-owned companies are saddled with overcapacity and excessive debt levels after they spent massive amounts of capital to stimulate the economy for the best part of the past decade.

Local governments, dependent on land sales for their revenue, and with local economies reliant on stimulus spending and smokestack industry jobs, were also ill-equipped for the transition. This financial distress made it clear that the economy was much less ready for the ambitious economic transformation than Beijing had assumed under the slogan of economic “New Normal”.

Furthermore, with president Xi focusing on consolidating his political position in the late 2017 party congress, there was no room for economic hiccups that could create internal discontent in the Party.

In response, the government unleashed a wave of stimulus that saw the reliance of the economy on government-directed spending and on inflated real estate sectors increase, in direct contrast to the aims of China’s economic transformation. In fact, the economy remains as dependent on real estate bubble and government-driven construction projects as ever, with 1/3 of this year’s GDP target expected to be delivered by a further increase in capital spending, above current very high levels.

CO2 emissions have followed the total volume of new debt closely with a time lag of about 12 months – after emissions started falling due to the global financial crisis in 2008, an unprecedented wave of credit started pushing emissions up even faster in early 2010. When that wave of stimulus started to run out in early 2013, it took a year for CO2 emissions to begin to fall. The next wave of stimulus started during the second half of 2015, and emissions started rebounding in early 2016. Now the amount of new credit (“Total Social Financing”, TSF) seems to have peaked in late 2017, but emissions are still on the upswing.

 

https://unearthed.greenpeace.org/2018/05/30/china-co2-carbon-climate-emissions-rise-in-2018/

 

 

Shhhhhhh

China and india are GREEN!! 

REEEEEEEE

9/24/19 9:08 AM
11/1/06
Posts: 2182
Junnk -
LoveToChoke -
Junnk -
Josh -
Junnk - 
Josh -
Junnk - 
ziggystardust -
kinson -
Huntsman -

I have survived the cold war, the hole in the ozone layer, the millennium bug, global cooling, mad cow disease, acid rain, 2012, global warming, Ebola, Zika virus, Iraq's WMDs, peak oil and even 3 years of president Trump.

 

Maybe "climate change" will be the one to finally get me, unless the plastic straws get me first.

Post of the year right here

Not really. Pointing out sensationalism in MSM is one thing. Mixing issues and drawing the conclusion that they're all the same is another.

The ozone layer hole and acid rain was dealt with through international agreements and legislation. Much like CC activists wants to do in regard to carbon dioxide.

And mixing the cold war in there... I don't know. I guess you guys don't know about some of the very close calls during that era.

It's like the boy who cried wolf again. Except there was a wolf there a couple of the times, but it was chased away. And now some people take as proof, that since no sheep have been killed so far, wolves don't exist. 

Only a tax will save us! 


So you don't believe in it because of a tax?

Who knows

What I do know is that a tax won't fix it. 

We could have 0 carbon footprint and it wouldn't matter since the biggest polluters are China and india 

 

 

 


Not sure about that do you have a stat or something. Also I know China is trying to change this

You need a stat that shows dollars don't magically fix the environment? 

Throw a dollar in the air and see if it does something

 

Companies hit with the huge tax increase will lay off people, increase prices and/or move to places where environmental laws are nonexistent

We end paying more, corrupt govt gets more of our money and the environment still gets trashed. 

 

 

When Australia implemented a carbon cap system, the economy stayed in positive growth and emissions went down. 

Of course once the conservatives got into power they killed it off, and emissions rose again. 

I don't understand why people are opposed to a carbon tax. It forces companies to improve their operations a reduce pollution of face a fine. It also levels the field for more green alternatives, driving investment which will see technology improvements. For all conservatives talk about hating governments, you'd think they would actually approve of a market based system like Carbon credits.

It forces companies to raise their prices and pass on the extra cost to the consumer. 

The result is govt gets more money, everything is more expensive and the pollution remains the same 

Why would conservatives want to give more money to govt? How is that a conservative trait lol 

Companies that are polluters raise their prices, or absorb it so they can stay competitive with companies that produce less greenhouse gasses.

During the federal election the conservative party claimed that prices would go through the roof if a carbon tax was implemented, and yet they didn't. 

9/24/19 10:06 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 14725
Junnk - 
ziggystardust -
Junnk -
Josh -
Junnk - 
ziggystardust -
kinson -
Huntsman -

I have survived the cold war, the hole in the ozone layer, the millennium bug, global cooling, mad cow disease, acid rain, 2012, global warming, Ebola, Zika virus, Iraq's WMDs, peak oil and even 3 years of president Trump.

 

Maybe "climate change" will be the one to finally get me, unless the plastic straws get me first.

Post of the year right here

Not really. Pointing out sensationalism in MSM is one thing. Mixing issues and drawing the conclusion that they're all the same is another.

The ozone layer hole and acid rain was dealt with through international agreements and legislation. Much like CC activists wants to do in regard to carbon dioxide.

And mixing the cold war in there... I don't know. I guess you guys don't know about some of the very close calls during that era.

It's like the boy who cried wolf again. Except there was a wolf there a couple of the times, but it was chased away. And now some people take as proof, that since no sheep have been killed so far, wolves don't exist. 

Only a tax will save us! 


So you don't believe in it because of a tax?

Who knows

What I do know is that a tax won't fix it. 

We could have 0 carbon footprint and it wouldn't matter since the biggest polluters are China and india 

 

 

 

Only due to population size. Americans are by far the biggest contributors per person. China and India are also increasing their prevention activities.

This is why international cooperation is so important when it comes to climate change. 

Hahaha so it's not about the amount of pollution but the amount each person puts out?

 

I doubt the environment cares if it's 1 person polluting or 1 billion. The result is pollution. 

China and india are the biggest polluters. 


This.

Holy fuck.

Dude has to be trolling. That can't be a serious take, right?

Who gives a shit about per person pollution when two countries have 36% of the worlds population?

"Asia is the most populous continent, with its 4.54 billion inhabitants accounting for 60% of the world population. The world's two most populated countries, China and India, together constitute about 36% of the world's population."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population
9/24/19 4:32 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 4613
cool hand Ed -
Junnk - 
ziggystardust -
Junnk -
Josh -
Junnk - 
ziggystardust -
kinson -
Huntsman -

I have survived the cold war, the hole in the ozone layer, the millennium bug, global cooling, mad cow disease, acid rain, 2012, global warming, Ebola, Zika virus, Iraq's WMDs, peak oil and even 3 years of president Trump.

 

Maybe "climate change" will be the one to finally get me, unless the plastic straws get me first.

Post of the year right here

Not really. Pointing out sensationalism in MSM is one thing. Mixing issues and drawing the conclusion that they're all the same is another.

The ozone layer hole and acid rain was dealt with through international agreements and legislation. Much like CC activists wants to do in regard to carbon dioxide.

And mixing the cold war in there... I don't know. I guess you guys don't know about some of the very close calls during that era.

It's like the boy who cried wolf again. Except there was a wolf there a couple of the times, but it was chased away. And now some people take as proof, that since no sheep have been killed so far, wolves don't exist. 

Only a tax will save us! 


So you don't believe in it because of a tax?

Who knows

What I do know is that a tax won't fix it. 

We could have 0 carbon footprint and it wouldn't matter since the biggest polluters are China and india 

 

 

 

Only due to population size. Americans are by far the biggest contributors per person. China and India are also increasing their prevention activities.

This is why international cooperation is so important when it comes to climate change. 

Hahaha so it's not about the amount of pollution but the amount each person puts out?

 

I doubt the environment cares if it's 1 person polluting or 1 billion. The result is pollution. 

China and india are the biggest polluters. 


This.

Holy fuck.

Dude has to be trolling. That can't be a serious take, right?

Who gives a shit about per person pollution when two countries have 36% of the worlds population?

"Asia is the most populous continent, with its 4.54 billion inhabitants accounting for 60% of the world population. The world's two most populated countries, China and India, together constitute about 36% of the world's population."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population

Several metrics count, not just one. It's not harder than that.

When Americans tell Chinese that they need to reduce their consumption of fossile fuels, while living lifestyles that consume twice as much themselves, it's not a convincing case. You know, lead by example and all that.

Another way to measure it is to put the carbon footprint on the end user. Then a lot of China's emissions are a result of US and European consumption.

Yet another way is to look at total contribution of carbon dioxide to the atmosphere over the last 250 years. Then the US is a real stand out. If your argument is that the biggest contributor should make the biggest reduction, where does that leave the US? 

Obviously China needs to make reductions. So does the US, EU, India etc. That's where the Tragedy of the Commons enter, everyone is waiting for everyone else to take the first step. 

9/24/19 11:21 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 4614
Stache -
Thelonious - 
ziggystardust -
Junnk -
ziggystardust -
kinson -
Huntsman -

I have survived the cold war, the hole in the ozone layer, the millennium bug, global cooling, mad cow disease, acid rain, 2012, global warming, Ebola, Zika virus, Iraq's WMDs, peak oil and even 3 years of president Trump.

 

Maybe "climate change" will be the one to finally get me, unless the plastic straws get me first.

Post of the year right here

Not really. Pointing out sensationalism in MSM is one thing. Mixing issues and drawing the conclusion that they're all the same is another.

The ozone layer hole and acid rain was dealt with through international agreements and legislation. Much like CC activists wants to do in regard to carbon dioxide.

And mixing the cold war in there... I don't know. I guess you guys don't know about some of the very close calls during that era.

It's like the boy who cried wolf again. Except there was a wolf there a couple of the times, but it was chased away. And now some people take as proof, that since no sheep have been killed so far, wolves don't exist. 

Only a tax will save us! 

As I wrote on the other climate thread:

There's a lot of actions that need to be taken and carbon taxes is one of them. Taxes are by definition punitive and that's how they should be used. Lower taxes on labour and capital, increase them on cigarettes, sugar, oil, carbon dioxide etc. 

Any honest politician who proposes carbon tax should propose a balanced lowering of other taxes. That's not how politicians work though, but it's not the fault of carbon tax and it demands a vigilant electorate. 

great post I agree


Sure, if your goal is to increase global emissions.

You cannot enact tougher standards or carbon taxes in western countries until you have ironclad agreements and enforceable penalties on China and India, or you are simply giving them a comparative advantage and creating a financial incentive for big polluters to move operations to those countries. Then you will have lost your regulatory oversight and leverage over those countries.

That's not an absolute, but I agree that it's important. You still have tougher emission standards today and a lot of companies are competitive. But yes, it differs from industry to industry.

9/25/19 12:07 AM
4/10/14
Posts: 2597
cool hand Ed -
Junnk - 
ziggystardust -
Junnk -
Josh -
Junnk - 
ziggystardust -
kinson -
Huntsman -

I have survived the cold war, the hole in the ozone layer, the millennium bug, global cooling, mad cow disease, acid rain, 2012, global warming, Ebola, Zika virus, Iraq's WMDs, peak oil and even 3 years of president Trump.

 

Maybe "climate change" will be the one to finally get me, unless the plastic straws get me first.

Post of the year right here

Not really. Pointing out sensationalism in MSM is one thing. Mixing issues and drawing the conclusion that they're all the same is another.

The ozone layer hole and acid rain was dealt with through international agreements and legislation. Much like CC activists wants to do in regard to carbon dioxide.

And mixing the cold war in there... I don't know. I guess you guys don't know about some of the very close calls during that era.

It's like the boy who cried wolf again. Except there was a wolf there a couple of the times, but it was chased away. And now some people take as proof, that since no sheep have been killed so far, wolves don't exist. 

Only a tax will save us! 


So you don't believe in it because of a tax?

Who knows

What I do know is that a tax won't fix it. 

We could have 0 carbon footprint and it wouldn't matter since the biggest polluters are China and india 

 

 

 

Only due to population size. Americans are by far the biggest contributors per person. China and India are also increasing their prevention activities.

This is why international cooperation is so important when it comes to climate change. 

Hahaha so it's not about the amount of pollution but the amount each person puts out?

 

I doubt the environment cares if it's 1 person polluting or 1 billion. The result is pollution. 

China and india are the biggest polluters. 


This.

Holy fuck.

Dude has to be trolling. That can't be a serious take, right?

Who gives a shit about per person pollution when two countries have 36% of the worlds population?

"Asia is the most populous continent, with its 4.54 billion inhabitants accounting for 60% of the world population. The world's two most populated countries, China and India, together constitute about 36% of the world's population."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population

The difference is there are so many poor people in villages in both those countries that don't have a car, use electricity, or buy products. Therefore as soon as the same percentage of poverty there equals the us were going to be super fucked because those countries don't give a flying fuck about burning garbage, dirty coal for energy etc..