OtherGround Forums Cops shot by ahole during traffic stop (RIP)

9/16/20 6:14 PM
7/20/04
Posts: 1515
John Cable -
Choked72 -
John Cable - 
Fake Pie -
ons ear - 
DickSmack - 

Should we be worried that that bum just completely dealt with 2 trained officers, including a Sgt, albeit a seemingly hot headed aggressive Sgt. 


There is something disturbing about that.. Two grown men of decent size couldn't pull out and control a soft idiot like that. Look at the Rashard Brooks case, another case where 2 cops couldn't contain a lone drunk guy.. Jacob Blake is another case where 3 cops were in the scene and Jacib still was able to get one in a chokehold and then just walk away..wtf?!

Doesn't seem like cops do any sort of grappling training. That should be mandatory

I've never done any of it, so I don't mean this as snarky at all but as a real question--have you ever tried to handcuff someone who is full resisting? From what the LEOs on here have said, including ones with MMA and other experience, it isn't as easy as it sounds and even an untrained douchebag like this can give someone fits even if they know what they are doing. It seems like they just lost an arm for a minute and he got the gun.

 

yes. it is hard. I have been in a bunch of deals like that. the whiny argumentative shit is just like what george floyd did. It is a distraction and meant to give themselves time or an opportunity to escape, or to ditch something, or to plan . 

 

The first time they refuse to obey a command, consider that a line in the sand. To continually repeat yourself is to expose yourself to danger as opposed to handling up on it. If you give a warning , follow up. Talk is cheap. 

of course I have choked a bunch of mother fuckers out. When I first started we had hickory batons. we did not have spray or tazers. I had probably choked out close to 40 people, before they banned it.  We trained it in DT. 

 

getting people out of cars sucks. What I had done before is guillotine them and put all my weight down on them pushing their head between their legs. Works when you get both legs out of car. Another way is the guy on passenger side go ahead and get in car and just drive thru them. Like a football block, grab an arm and then put your feet on floor against the car, just inside of door and just press using your legs, and you can put your forehead on their ear, driving them, with driver side guy guy pulling and clearing hands from grabbing shit. You can give them some pops and continue to tell them to let go. I would take my left arm and loop under their right arm and then over their shoulder or grab a collar or a hand full of hair if they have it. Keep track of their left hand with my right hand, my gunside away and relatively safe. They will grab the steering wheel most of the time. Near impossible to remove , even two hands on one. very dangerous, you are exposed to ALL of his weapons. 

 

 when we got asp batons. I would use it closed to strike their fingers and backs of their hands. bang bang bang continue to strike their hands with closed baton tip. like a metal pipe. They would hang on and scream like banshees. Just keep hitting bang bang  bang  saying let go let go let go with every strike. eventually they let go and scramble, thats when you puuuuuuuuush some more. game of inches lol.  If they bite or strike. Then pop them right in face as hard as you can  pop pop pop say stop  biting. Like training a dog. repeating dont bite dont bite , dont hit dont hit. With a punch every time you say it. 

 

Before asps, just punch the fuck out of their arms and hands. 

Fucking assholes. I was trying to pull a guys hands off of the cage in my squad. he just had a narrow edge and I could not get one hand off with both of mine and I was pretty stout , a lot stronger than him. I pulled so hard both of my hands popped off and I hit the back of my head on edge of car door. I got 6 stitches on my noggin. 

it is like Greco in a car with relaxed rules. 

 


In your experience, was using the hair as a pain compliance tool and to use as a handle allowed? Seems it could have been used to good effect in this case

 

absolutely. 

 

we trained that too. We called it a hair latch. Grab  both side of crown, bundle handful of hair in both hands, curl hands under with a little twist. Start walking, just walk the fuck off like pulling a log thru the woods. 

 

works like a fucking boss.  It is still in policy in my old agency. However, longer hair not in as much. I did not notice if the dude had long hair. also if they have product in, it can hinder the grip. 

I've found it to be a very effective tool, albeit as a civilian. Good to know its allowed in law enforcement in some places, but seems very underutilized.

9/16/20 6:48 PM
8/16/12
Posts: 4782


we need to bring back this type of method for the death penalty. put it on a live feed and I guarantee it would make these stupid fucks think twice about killing anyone
9/16/20 6:55 PM
7/22/13
Posts: 3379

All this white on white crime 

9/16/20 7:03 PM
2/12/14
Posts: 3728
Choked72 -
John Cable -
Choked72 -
John Cable - 
Fake Pie -
ons ear - 
DickSmack - 

Should we be worried that that bum just completely dealt with 2 trained officers, including a Sgt, albeit a seemingly hot headed aggressive Sgt. 


There is something disturbing about that.. Two grown men of decent size couldn't pull out and control a soft idiot like that. Look at the Rashard Brooks case, another case where 2 cops couldn't contain a lone drunk guy.. Jacob Blake is another case where 3 cops were in the scene and Jacib still was able to get one in a chokehold and then just walk away..wtf?!

Doesn't seem like cops do any sort of grappling training. That should be mandatory

I've never done any of it, so I don't mean this as snarky at all but as a real question--have you ever tried to handcuff someone who is full resisting? From what the LEOs on here have said, including ones with MMA and other experience, it isn't as easy as it sounds and even an untrained douchebag like this can give someone fits even if they know what they are doing. It seems like they just lost an arm for a minute and he got the gun.

 

yes. it is hard. I have been in a bunch of deals like that. the whiny argumentative shit is just like what george floyd did. It is a distraction and meant to give themselves time or an opportunity to escape, or to ditch something, or to plan . 

 

The first time they refuse to obey a command, consider that a line in the sand. To continually repeat yourself is to expose yourself to danger as opposed to handling up on it. If you give a warning , follow up. Talk is cheap. 

of course I have choked a bunch of mother fuckers out. When I first started we had hickory batons. we did not have spray or tazers. I had probably choked out close to 40 people, before they banned it.  We trained it in DT. 

 

getting people out of cars sucks. What I had done before is guillotine them and put all my weight down on them pushing their head between their legs. Works when you get both legs out of car. Another way is the guy on passenger side go ahead and get in car and just drive thru them. Like a football block, grab an arm and then put your feet on floor against the car, just inside of door and just press using your legs, and you can put your forehead on their ear, driving them, with driver side guy guy pulling and clearing hands from grabbing shit. You can give them some pops and continue to tell them to let go. I would take my left arm and loop under their right arm and then over their shoulder or grab a collar or a hand full of hair if they have it. Keep track of their left hand with my right hand, my gunside away and relatively safe. They will grab the steering wheel most of the time. Near impossible to remove , even two hands on one. very dangerous, you are exposed to ALL of his weapons. 

 

 when we got asp batons. I would use it closed to strike their fingers and backs of their hands. bang bang bang continue to strike their hands with closed baton tip. like a metal pipe. They would hang on and scream like banshees. Just keep hitting bang bang  bang  saying let go let go let go with every strike. eventually they let go and scramble, thats when you puuuuuuuuush some more. game of inches lol.  If they bite or strike. Then pop them right in face as hard as you can  pop pop pop say stop  biting. Like training a dog. repeating dont bite dont bite , dont hit dont hit. With a punch every time you say it. 

 

Before asps, just punch the fuck out of their arms and hands. 

Fucking assholes. I was trying to pull a guys hands off of the cage in my squad. he just had a narrow edge and I could not get one hand off with both of mine and I was pretty stout , a lot stronger than him. I pulled so hard both of my hands popped off and I hit the back of my head on edge of car door. I got 6 stitches on my noggin. 

it is like Greco in a car with relaxed rules. 

 


In your experience, was using the hair as a pain compliance tool and to use as a handle allowed? Seems it could have been used to good effect in this case

 

absolutely. 

 

we trained that too. We called it a hair latch. Grab  both side of crown, bundle handful of hair in both hands, curl hands under with a little twist. Start walking, just walk the fuck off like pulling a log thru the woods. 

 

works like a fucking boss.  It is still in policy in my old agency. However, longer hair not in as much. I did not notice if the dude had long hair. also if they have product in, it can hinder the grip. 

I've found it to be a very effective tool, albeit as a civilian. Good to know its allowed in law enforcement in some places, but seems very underutilized.

 

 

used it a  lot with chicks. saved me from getting scratched a lot. 

 

 

9/16/20 7:32 PM
11/1/06
Posts: 3634

This video made me sad and mad. RIP. 

9/16/20 7:39 PM
10/8/07
Posts: 14287
Zeekman -


we need to bring back this type of method for the death penalty. put it on a live feed and I guarantee it would make these stupid fucks think twice about killing anyone

Just curious, where did they used to do this at? That's pretty gnarly.

9/16/20 9:45 PM
3/23/06
Posts: 10884
Brockback Mountain -

 

Look at this fucking loser. 

He will be striving for glory hole in prison. 

9/16/20 11:54 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 44441
rushinbear -

AI, where are you.....

Interesting, isn’t it? 

9/17/20 12:27 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 69368
The Destroyer88 - 
Zeekman -


we need to bring back this type of method for the death penalty. put it on a live feed and I guarantee it would make these stupid fucks think twice about killing anyone

Just curious, where did they used to do this at? That's pretty gnarly.


The Bone Tomahawk Mutant Whistling Indian Tribe invented this technique.
Edited: 9/17/20 12:38 AM
7/15/04
Posts: 61007
The Destroyer88 -
Zeekman -


we need to bring back this type of method for the death penalty. put it on a live feed and I guarantee it would make these stupid fucks think twice about killing anyone

Just curious, where did they used to do this at? That's pretty gnarly.

Looks like some middle ages European shit. They had quite the Rolodex on various torture and execution techniques. 

9/17/20 4:59 PM
12/2/05
Posts: 89759

Cute:

TULSA, Okla. - The attorney for the man accused of aiding David Ware in the murder of Sgt. Craig Johnson and the shooting of Officer Aurash Zarkeshan is calling for charges to be dropped.
Matthew Hall is accused of picking up David Ware from the scene after two officers were shot. Hall's been in jail, charged with accessory to the murder Sgt. Johnson since the incident but on Tuesday his attorney asked the judge for bond to be set, and charges against Hall to be dismissed.

His attorney says Hall can't be charged with accessory to murder because any assistance he could have provided Ware ended when Hall was booked into jail. He says Sgt. Johnson died 21 hours after Hall was booked, so the attorney argues that Hall didn't assist in the murder Ware is accused of committing.

Hall's attorney does not dispute that Hall assisted Ware by driving him from the scene of the shooting and disposing of the weapon used to shoot the two officers.

Hall's attorney is citing a 2003 case, Schoonover v. State, in his request to have the accessory to murder charge to be dismissed, saying

"The felony of murdering is compete when the victim is dead. This, to be guilty of accessory after the fact, the defendant must give assistance to the murderer after the death of the victim."

----

Fine, charge him with accessory to attempted murder.

9/17/20 5:00 PM
12/2/05
Posts: 89760

Good, seeking the death penalty:

TULSA, Okla. (KTUL) – Tulsa County District Attorney Steve Kunzweiler is seeking the death penalty for David Ware, the man charged with the murder of a police officer.

Just days ago, the judge ordered the release of the police video showing the June 29 shooting, which killed police Sgt. Craig Johnson and wounded Officer Aurash Zarkeshan.

The video shows a traffic stop and interactions among Ware and the officers, before Ware shoots both officers and escapes in a waiting vehicle, allegedly driven by accomplice Matthew Hall.

A court document filed Thursday outlines reasons the "Defendant should be punished by Death":

Ware "knowingly created a great risk of death to more than one person "
"The murder of Sgt. Craig Johnson was especially heinous, atrocious, or cruel."
"The murder of Sgt. Craig Johnson was committed for the purpose of avoiding or preventing a lawful arrest or prosecution. "
"There exists a probability that (Ware) would commit criminal acts of violence that would constitute a continuing threat to society."
The murder victim was a police officer, who was killed in the line of duty.

9/17/20 7:47 PM
10/11/05
Posts: 50925

"Cute:"

If I'm reading that judgment correctly, it only means a change in charge from accessory to principal, & actually hurts his chances for a dismissal/retrial on appeal, while increasing his chances for a death penalty charge.

Idiot defense attorney is idiot. Should have kept that in his back pocket.


Side note: I initially failed to include the year & state in my search, & was surprised to find out how many Schoonovers have been in trouble with The Law.

Edited: 9/17/20 8:29 PM
12/2/05
Posts: 89764

Principal could be tough though since he rolled up after the shootings were done, but like you said he could be arguing his was into that saying the murder wasn't completed yet. I am not up to date enough on accessory law but can look later. In the Shoonover case they were trying to get him for murder and changed it to accessory when it went to the jury. That issue isn't here and they can represent with any number of charges still. AI agree with the dissent FWIW:

I dissent from the Majority's conclusion that acts committed by a
defendant before the victim dies cannot constitute accessory after the
fact to murder. The better rule to follow is that announced by the U.S.
Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals in United States v. McCoy, 721 F.2d 473
(4th Cir. 1983). The Fourth Circuit held that if the defendant knew the
victim was dying, then the defendant could be convicted of accessory
after the fact to murder. ld. at 475. If one helps cover up a crime,
knowing that the victim is dying, he should not escape accessorial
liability simply because the victim has yet to succumb to the mortal
blow.

Edited: 9/17/20 8:36 PM
12/2/05
Posts: 89765

There's any number of completed felonies to charge him with accessory to at that point at least. I would think conspiracy would be tough since he can't have known his buddy was going to do that at the time so they couldn't have formed one.

Accomplice... maybe. If they are saying the murder wasn't complete yet, then he aided him in the murder itself and not after the fact (as you said). I am guessing they would counter that driving him off after the fact provided no material help in committing the murder, just avoiding arrest for it, which goes back to an accessory crime vs. accomplice.

9/17/20 8:37 PM
9/27/15
Posts: 13424
Fake Pie - 
MPA - 
badboyhere -
MPA -

OP sucks cocks.  This isn't a reason cops shoot people.  They shoot Black guys the first time they reach for something or fight with them.  These cops didn't even draw their weapons on this guy.

YOURE A FKN IDIOT!!! STFU!!!  if cops shot blacks all the time, there would be many more deaths than 9 unarmed blacks in 2019 and more than 7 in 2018.. dont come here spewing your leftwing jizz outta your filthy sewer mouth to get attention based of your bitch ass narrative... go back to sucking your moms cock in the basement while your dad watches u useless bitch.....

and hey fktard... dont reach for shit when a cop tells you to get out of the fkn car dumbass and why dont you tell me how many whites were killed by blacks the last 2 years... have u looked that up yet fktard? 

Did the cops draw their gun on the guy? No.  

Your entire attempt to divert fromt he subject doesn't surprise me. 



I thought cops only shot and killed blacks though?

Did that guy live? That's a very bad shooting but I wonder why we didn't hear about it for months straight?
9/17/20 8:40 PM
12/2/05
Posts: 89766
ons ear - 
Fake Pie - 
MPA - 
badboyhere -
MPA -

OP sucks cocks.  This isn't a reason cops shoot people.  They shoot Black guys the first time they reach for something or fight with them.  These cops didn't even draw their weapons on this guy.

YOURE A FKN IDIOT!!! STFU!!!  if cops shot blacks all the time, there would be many more deaths than 9 unarmed blacks in 2019 and more than 7 in 2018.. dont come here spewing your leftwing jizz outta your filthy sewer mouth to get attention based of your bitch ass narrative... go back to sucking your moms cock in the basement while your dad watches u useless bitch.....

and hey fktard... dont reach for shit when a cop tells you to get out of the fkn car dumbass and why dont you tell me how many whites were killed by blacks the last 2 years... have u looked that up yet fktard? 

Did the cops draw their gun on the guy? No.  

Your entire attempt to divert fromt he subject doesn't surprise me. 



I thought cops only shot and killed blacks though?

Did that guy live? That's a very bad shooting but I wonder why we didn't hear about it for months straight?

There was a decent sized thread on it at the time, which is how I remember it (I screen shotted the guy getting out of the car to show it looked like a drawing motion). Yeah he lived. Cop was not charged.

9/17/20 8:45 PM
9/20/19
Posts: 4681
Zeekman -


we need to bring back this type of method for the death penalty. put it on a live feed and I guarantee it would make these stupid fucks think twice about killing anyone

A lot of that shit was made up in the Victorian age to entertain  allmof those gullible assholes.