OtherGround Forums Florida Man Stands his Ground over Parking Dispute

7/21/18 12:55 PM
7/15/02
Posts: 10286
Fake Pie -
pfsjkd -
Fake Pie -

Sounds completely justified. Don't go shoving people because you don't like their words. 

‘Sounds’ justified? Did you watch the vid??

I hadn't when I posted that. I have since. Still think he likely gets off but I do think he was a bit quick on the trigger .That said, don't assault people for no justified reason and you don't need to worry about being shot .I'm fine if the guy gets off. 

I’m curious if you think that *any* push means that the pusher is open to being justifiably shot? If not, what more could the guy have done after the shove to remove that justification?

7/21/18 1:13 PM
12/24/10
Posts: 2403

When morons colloide. The asshole who shoved him needed a good ass kicking. The moron who pulled the gun could have pulled it to keep the asshole at bay while he removed himself from the situation. He chose to end his life and at that moment it was not the correct response.

7/21/18 1:33 PM
4/11/14
Posts: 7753
angryinch -
TexDeuce - 
newbie2013 -
TexDeuce -

That was fucking murder. You don't shoot someone because they pushed you.

That is fucking insane. 

I cannot see any other way of looking at it than cold blooded murder.  Let us hope this scumbag gets life.

There is no other way to look at it. That was straight murder. We don't live in a world where you should get to shoot someone because they pushed you.

If that was the case, I would know plenty of people that would be dead and I would have shot plenty of others.

This is murder. There is no defending it unless you are crazy.


If someone shoved a cop in that manner, so hard that he went flying several feet back, then the person continued to advance, would the cop be justified in shooting them?

He didn’t continue to advance.

7/21/18 1:48 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 63644
Everybody involved is an asshole, but only one asshole killed someone. Seems like it should be a clear case of manslaughter if not for Florida's stupid laws. Florida gonna Florida.
7/21/18 1:49 PM
6/26/06
Posts: 9719
JimLahey - 
Positive Energy -
angryinch -
TexDeuce - 
newbie2013 -
TexDeuce -

That was fucking murder. You don't shoot someone because they pushed you.

That is fucking insane. 

I cannot see any other way of looking at it than cold blooded murder.  Let us hope this scumbag gets life.

There is no other way to look at it. That was straight murder. We don't live in a world where you should get to shoot someone because they pushed you.

If that was the case, I would know plenty of people that would be dead and I would have shot plenty of others.

This is murder. There is no defending it unless you are crazy.


If someone shoved a cop in that manner, so hard that he went flying several feet back, then the person continued to advance, would the cop be justified in shooting them?

He didn’t continue to advance.

That’s the difference maker for me. If he continued to advance, open fire. He didn’t though. That’s why it’s a bad shoot. 


From your POV well after the fact, on video, multiple times.

But the shooters POV could have been and was totally different. He could have been concussed, knocked out, injured, maybe he felt like he was going to lose consciousness or his grip on the gun from the injury, we just dont know and have no right to second guess.

The law is on the shooters side, rightly so.
7/21/18 2:29 PM
12/1/03
Posts: 1065
Looks like the pusher was backing away when the gun came out. That's a whole different story in my mind. This is a tough call.
7/21/18 2:37 PM
6/26/06
Posts: 9720
ThePigpen - Looks like the pusher was backing away when the gun came out. That's a whole different story in my mind. This is a tough call.

To you maybe, but to the guy that was just blindsided and slammed to the ground that slight backwards movement did not indicate that the threat was over, especially if he was injured or stunned, or flash knocked out.
7/21/18 2:39 PM
4/11/14
Posts: 7754
RenatoCocopreta -
JimLahey - 
Positive Energy -
angryinch -
TexDeuce - 
newbie2013 -
TexDeuce -

That was fucking murder. You don't shoot someone because they pushed you.

That is fucking insane. 

I cannot see any other way of looking at it than cold blooded murder.  Let us hope this scumbag gets life.

There is no other way to look at it. That was straight murder. We don't live in a world where you should get to shoot someone because they pushed you.

If that was the case, I would know plenty of people that would be dead and I would have shot plenty of others.

This is murder. There is no defending it unless you are crazy.


If someone shoved a cop in that manner, so hard that he went flying several feet back, then the person continued to advance, would the cop be justified in shooting them?

He didn’t continue to advance.

That’s the difference maker for me. If he continued to advance, open fire. He didn’t though. That’s why it’s a bad shoot. 


From your POV well after the fact, on video, multiple times.

But the shooters POV could have been and was totally different. He could have been concussed, knocked out, injured, maybe he felt like he was going to lose consciousness or his grip on the gun from the injury, we just dont know and have no right to second guess.

The law is on the shooters side, rightly so.

So the shooter felt he was going to lose his grip on the gun from injury....even though the gun was still in its holster at the time of being pushed? Or maybe he was knocked out? Ya, he looked unconscious....Lol, what a stretch.

Shooter slowly draws the gun takes aim and fires into a retreating “attacker” because his feelings got hurt. Pussy.

 

7/21/18 2:41 PM
4/28/12
Posts: 3953
RenatoCocopreta -
JimLahey - 
Positive Energy -
angryinch -
TexDeuce - 
newbie2013 -
TexDeuce -

That was fucking murder. You don't shoot someone because they pushed you.

That is fucking insane. 

I cannot see any other way of looking at it than cold blooded murder.  Let us hope this scumbag gets life.

There is no other way to look at it. That was straight murder. We don't live in a world where you should get to shoot someone because they pushed you.

If that was the case, I would know plenty of people that would be dead and I would have shot plenty of others.

This is murder. There is no defending it unless you are crazy.


If someone shoved a cop in that manner, so hard that he went flying several feet back, then the person continued to advance, would the cop be justified in shooting them?

He didn’t continue to advance.

That’s the difference maker for me. If he continued to advance, open fire. He didn’t though. That’s why it’s a bad shoot. 


From your POV well after the fact, on video, multiple times.

But the shooters POV could have been and was totally different. He could have been concussed, knocked out, injured, maybe he felt like he was going to lose consciousness or his grip on the gun from the injury, we just dont know and have no right to second guess.

The law is on the shooters side, rightly so.

Lol are you kidding? Knocked out? He popped eight up drew his gun and fired. 

Edited: 7/21/18 2:45 PM
4/11/14
Posts: 7755
tanner904 -
RenatoCocopreta -
JimLahey - 
Positive Energy -
angryinch -
TexDeuce - 
newbie2013 -
TexDeuce -

That was fucking murder. You don't shoot someone because they pushed you.

That is fucking insane. 

I cannot see any other way of looking at it than cold blooded murder.  Let us hope this scumbag gets life.

There is no other way to look at it. That was straight murder. We don't live in a world where you should get to shoot someone because they pushed you.

If that was the case, I would know plenty of people that would be dead and I would have shot plenty of others.

This is murder. There is no defending it unless you are crazy.

 

If someone shoved a cop in that manner, so hard that he went flying several feet back, then the person continued to advance, would the cop be justified in shooting them?

He didn’t continue to advance.

That’s the difference maker for me. If he continued to advance, open fire. He didn’t though. That’s why it’s a bad shoot. 


From your POV well after the fact, on video, multiple times.

But the shooters POV could have been and was totally different. He could have been concussed, knocked out, injured, maybe he felt like he was going to lose consciousness or his grip on the gun from the injury, we just dont know and have no right to second guess.

The law is on the shooters side, rightly so.

Lol are you kidding? Knocked out? He popped eight up drew his gun and fired. 

“Doesn’t matter if the shooter is knocked out, as long as he FEELS knocked out it’s a good shoot”

-Renato

^He’s like a postmodernist when it comes to CCW. There are no facts, only feelings.

7/21/18 2:52 PM
6/26/06
Posts: 9721
Positive Energy - 
RenatoCocopreta -
JimLahey - 
Positive Energy -
angryinch -
TexDeuce - 
newbie2013 -
TexDeuce -

That was fucking murder. You don't shoot someone because they pushed you.

That is fucking insane. 

I cannot see any other way of looking at it than cold blooded murder.  Let us hope this scumbag gets life.

There is no other way to look at it. That was straight murder. We don't live in a world where you should get to shoot someone because they pushed you.

If that was the case, I would know plenty of people that would be dead and I would have shot plenty of others.

This is murder. There is no defending it unless you are crazy.


If someone shoved a cop in that manner, so hard that he went flying several feet back, then the person continued to advance, would the cop be justified in shooting them?

He didn’t continue to advance.

That’s the difference maker for me. If he continued to advance, open fire. He didn’t though. That’s why it’s a bad shoot. 


From your POV well after the fact, on video, multiple times.

But the shooters POV could have been and was totally different. He could have been concussed, knocked out, injured, maybe he felt like he was going to lose consciousness or his grip on the gun from the injury, we just dont know and have no right to second guess.

The law is on the shooters side, rightly so.

So the shooter felt he was going to lose his grip on the gun from injury....even though the gun was still in its holster at the time of being pushed? Or maybe he was knocked out? Ya, he looked unconscious....Lol, what a stretch.

Shooter slowly draws the gun takes aim and fires into a retreating “attacker” because his feelings got hurt. Pussy.

 


Im suggesting those as possibilities, but the key point is that the shooter cant be expected to make a perfect judgement call in the heat of a very intense and threatening experience. The law understands that and thus looks at the situation from the shooters perspective, and the key point is that as long as the shooter claims that he felt threatened he is justified in eliminating that threat.

The aggressor's slight movement backwards may indeed have been the sign of a retreat, but it also could have been a fake move to get the shooter to put the gun down and attack him again - the shooter doesnt have the duty to analyze the aggressors movements and to rationally and precisely calculate the need to shoot or not. Thats the law, it sides with the victim as its should.

If some thug attacks me and slams me to the ground, do I really have to pay close attention to his behavior so that I can drop my defenses that second that he makes a backwards move, I think that I dont, I have every right to devote 100% of my thoughts and energy into eliminating the agressor's threat. Thats how the law sees it and thats why the prosecutor will not file charges because it will be a wrongful prosecution and they will pay the shooter a settlement.

The only way theres a prosecution of the shooter is if enough political pressure is brought to bear.
7/21/18 3:10 PM
3/14/04
Posts: 129269
JimLahey - 
Positive Energy -
angryinch -
TexDeuce - 
newbie2013 -
TexDeuce -

That was fucking murder. You don't shoot someone because they pushed you.

That is fucking insane. 

I cannot see any other way of looking at it than cold blooded murder.  Let us hope this scumbag gets life.

There is no other way to look at it. That was straight murder. We don't live in a world where you should get to shoot someone because they pushed you.

If that was the case, I would know plenty of people that would be dead and I would have shot plenty of others.

This is murder. There is no defending it unless you are crazy.


If someone shoved a cop in that manner, so hard that he went flying several feet back, then the person continued to advance, would the cop be justified in shooting them?

He didn’t continue to advance.

That’s the difference maker for me. If he continued to advance, open fire. He didn’t though. That’s why it’s a bad shoot. 


Everyone can disagree on this.  I saw him moving towards the guy after he pushed him down.  You may see it differently.

The question remains, if someone pushed a cop in that manner (however you saw it), would the cop be justified in shooting him?

7/21/18 3:10 PM
7/15/02
Posts: 10287
RenatoCocopreta -
Positive Energy - 
RenatoCocopreta -
JimLahey - 
Positive Energy -
angryinch -
TexDeuce - 
newbie2013 -
TexDeuce -

That was fucking murder. You don't shoot someone because they pushed you.

That is fucking insane. 

I cannot see any other way of looking at it than cold blooded murder.  Let us hope this scumbag gets life.

There is no other way to look at it. That was straight murder. We don't live in a world where you should get to shoot someone because they pushed you.

If that was the case, I would know plenty of people that would be dead and I would have shot plenty of others.

This is murder. There is no defending it unless you are crazy.


If someone shoved a cop in that manner, so hard that he went flying several feet back, then the person continued to advance, would the cop be justified in shooting them?

He didn’t continue to advance.

That’s the difference maker for me. If he continued to advance, open fire. He didn’t though. That’s why it’s a bad shoot. 


From your POV well after the fact, on video, multiple times.

But the shooters POV could have been and was totally different. He could have been concussed, knocked out, injured, maybe he felt like he was going to lose consciousness or his grip on the gun from the injury, we just dont know and have no right to second guess.

The law is on the shooters side, rightly so.

So the shooter felt he was going to lose his grip on the gun from injury....even though the gun was still in its holster at the time of being pushed? Or maybe he was knocked out? Ya, he looked unconscious....Lol, what a stretch.

Shooter slowly draws the gun takes aim and fires into a retreating “attacker” because his feelings got hurt. Pussy.

 


Im suggesting those as possibilities, but the key point is that the shooter cant be expected to make a perfect judgement call in the heat of a very intense and threatening experience. The law understands that and thus looks at the situation from the shooters perspective, and the key point is that as long as the shooter claims that he felt threatened he is justified in eliminating that threat.

The aggressor's slight movement backwards may indeed have been the sign of a retreat, but it also could have been a fake move to get the shooter to put the gun down and attack him again - the shooter doesnt have the duty to analyze the aggressors movements and to rationally and precisely calculate the need to shoot or not. Thats the law, it sides with the victim as its should.

If some thug attacks me and slams me to the ground, do I really have to pay close attention to his behavior so that I can drop my defenses that second that he makes a backwards move, I think that I dont, I have every right to devote 100% of my thoughts and energy into eliminating the agressor's threat. Thats how the law sees it and thats why the prosecutor will not file charges because it will be a wrongful prosecution and they will pay the shooter a settlement.

The only way theres a prosecution of the shooter is if enough political pressure is brought to bear.

You’re truly an inbred dipshit. Everything you say reveals your low IQ. 

7/21/18 3:10 PM
4/11/14
Posts: 7756
RenatoCocopreta -
Positive Energy - 
RenatoCocopreta -
JimLahey - 
Positive Energy -
angryinch -
TexDeuce - 
newbie2013 -
TexDeuce -

That was fucking murder. You don't shoot someone because they pushed you.

That is fucking insane. 

I cannot see any other way of looking at it than cold blooded murder.  Let us hope this scumbag gets life.

There is no other way to look at it. That was straight murder. We don't live in a world where you should get to shoot someone because they pushed you.

If that was the case, I would know plenty of people that would be dead and I would have shot plenty of others.

This is murder. There is no defending it unless you are crazy.


If someone shoved a cop in that manner, so hard that he went flying several feet back, then the person continued to advance, would the cop be justified in shooting them?

He didn’t continue to advance.

That’s the difference maker for me. If he continued to advance, open fire. He didn’t though. That’s why it’s a bad shoot. 


From your POV well after the fact, on video, multiple times.

But the shooters POV could have been and was totally different. He could have been concussed, knocked out, injured, maybe he felt like he was going to lose consciousness or his grip on the gun from the injury, we just dont know and have no right to second guess.

The law is on the shooters side, rightly so.

So the shooter felt he was going to lose his grip on the gun from injury....even though the gun was still in its holster at the time of being pushed? Or maybe he was knocked out? Ya, he looked unconscious....Lol, what a stretch.

Shooter slowly draws the gun takes aim and fires into a retreating “attacker” because his feelings got hurt. Pussy.

 


Im suggesting those as possibilities, but the key point is that the shooter cant be expected to make a perfect judgement call in the heat of a very intense and threatening experience. The law understands that and thus looks at the situation from the shooters perspective, and the key point is that as long as the shooter claims that he felt threatened he is justified in eliminating that threat.

The aggressor's slight movement backwards may indeed have been the sign of a retreat, but it also could have been a fake move to get the shooter to put the gun down and attack him again - the shooter doesnt have the duty to analyze the aggressors movements and to rationally and precisely calculate the need to shoot or not. Thats the law, it sides with the victim as its should.

If some thug attacks me and slams me to the ground, do I really have to pay close attention to his behavior so that I can drop my defenses that second that he makes a backwards move, I think that I dont, I have every right to devote 100% of my thoughts and energy into eliminating the agressor's threat. Thats how the law sees it and thats why the prosecutor will not file charges because it will be a wrongful prosecution and they will pay the shooter a settlement.

The only way theres a prosecution of the shooter is if enough political pressure is brought to bear.

Thank goodness not every ccw holder acts like this guy who starts conflict while carrying then shoots out of pure puss-itis.

Think about it, if all of us acted like this dude, shooting people over parking spots and pushes, we’d be losing our gun rights with a quickness. Gotta hold ourselves to a higher standard. You think you’re standing up for ccw holders but you’re really just making us all look bad.

7/21/18 3:11 PM
7/15/02
Posts: 10288
angryinch -
JimLahey - 
Positive Energy -
angryinch -
TexDeuce - 
newbie2013 -
TexDeuce -

That was fucking murder. You don't shoot someone because they pushed you.

That is fucking insane. 

I cannot see any other way of looking at it than cold blooded murder.  Let us hope this scumbag gets life.

There is no other way to look at it. That was straight murder. We don't live in a world where you should get to shoot someone because they pushed you.

If that was the case, I would know plenty of people that would be dead and I would have shot plenty of others.

This is murder. There is no defending it unless you are crazy.


If someone shoved a cop in that manner, so hard that he went flying several feet back, then the person continued to advance, would the cop be justified in shooting them?

He didn’t continue to advance.

That’s the difference maker for me. If he continued to advance, open fire. He didn’t though. That’s why it’s a bad shoot. 


Everyone can disagree on this.  I saw him moving towards the guy after he pushed him down.  You may see it differently.

The question remains, if someone pushed a cop in that manner (however you saw it), would the cop be justified in shooting him?

No, he wouldn’t be. Period. If you saw the guy move forward you need to get your eyes checked. 

7/21/18 3:11 PM
4/11/14
Posts: 7757
angryinch -
JimLahey - 
Positive Energy -
angryinch -
TexDeuce - 
newbie2013 -
TexDeuce -

That was fucking murder. You don't shoot someone because they pushed you.

That is fucking insane. 

I cannot see any other way of looking at it than cold blooded murder.  Let us hope this scumbag gets life.

There is no other way to look at it. That was straight murder. We don't live in a world where you should get to shoot someone because they pushed you.

If that was the case, I would know plenty of people that would be dead and I would have shot plenty of others.

This is murder. There is no defending it unless you are crazy.


If someone shoved a cop in that manner, so hard that he went flying several feet back, then the person continued to advance, would the cop be justified in shooting them?

He didn’t continue to advance.

That’s the difference maker for me. If he continued to advance, open fire. He didn’t though. That’s why it’s a bad shoot. 


Everyone can disagree on this.  I saw him moving towards the guy after he pushed him down.  You may see it differently.

The question remains, if someone pushed a cop in that manner (however you saw it), would the cop be justified in shooting him?

Where did you see this? Because it surely wasn’t in the video.

7/21/18 3:19 PM
8/31/15
Posts: 1172

Lol I almost shot some wanna be tough guy a month ago over a parking spot. Florida people are retarded

7/21/18 3:28 PM
3/14/04
Posts: 129270
RockTheVote - 

stand your ground doesnt mean you can shoot someone for pushing you. it just means you dont have a duty to retreat. if a reasonable person would have feared for his life, its a good shoot. i cant imagine a reasonable person fearing for their life with this video.


Cops have shot people for much less, claimed it was justified due to "fear", and gotten away with it.  

7/21/18 3:30 PM
4/11/14
Posts: 7758
angryinch -
RockTheVote - 

stand your ground doesnt mean you can shoot someone for pushing you. it just means you dont have a duty to retreat. if a reasonable person would have feared for his life, its a good shoot. i cant imagine a reasonable person fearing for their life with this video.


Cops have shot people for much less, claimed it was justified due to "fear", and gotten away with it.  

And we should be critical of them too.

facts>feelings.

7/21/18 3:31 PM
7/20/04
Posts: 736
RenatoCocopreta -
Positive Energy - 
RenatoCocopreta -
JimLahey - 
Positive Energy -
angryinch -
TexDeuce - 
newbie2013 -
TexDeuce -

That was fucking murder. You don't shoot someone because they pushed you.

That is fucking insane. 

I cannot see any other way of looking at it than cold blooded murder.  Let us hope this scumbag gets life.

There is no other way to look at it. That was straight murder. We don't live in a world where you should get to shoot someone because they pushed you.

If that was the case, I would know plenty of people that would be dead and I would have shot plenty of others.

This is murder. There is no defending it unless you are crazy.


If someone shoved a cop in that manner, so hard that he went flying several feet back, then the person continued to advance, would the cop be justified in shooting them?

He didn’t continue to advance.

That’s the difference maker for me. If he continued to advance, open fire. He didn’t though. That’s why it’s a bad shoot. 


From your POV well after the fact, on video, multiple times.

But the shooters POV could have been and was totally different. He could have been concussed, knocked out, injured, maybe he felt like he was going to lose consciousness or his grip on the gun from the injury, we just dont know and have no right to second guess.

The law is on the shooters side, rightly so.

So the shooter felt he was going to lose his grip on the gun from injury....even though the gun was still in its holster at the time of being pushed? Or maybe he was knocked out? Ya, he looked unconscious....Lol, what a stretch.

Shooter slowly draws the gun takes aim and fires into a retreating “attacker” because his feelings got hurt. Pussy.

 


Im suggesting those as possibilities, but the key point is that the shooter cant be expected to make a perfect judgement call in the heat of a very intense and threatening experience. The law understands that and thus looks at the situation from the shooters perspective, and the key point is that as long as the shooter claims that he felt threatened he is justified in eliminating that threat.

The aggressor's slight movement backwards may indeed have been the sign of a retreat, but it also could have been a fake move to get the shooter to put the gun down and attack him again - the shooter doesnt have the duty to analyze the aggressors movements and to rationally and precisely calculate the need to shoot or not. Thats the law, it sides with the victim as its should.

If some thug attacks me and slams me to the ground, do I really have to pay close attention to his behavior so that I can drop my defenses that second that he makes a backwards move, I think that I dont, I have every right to devote 100% of my thoughts and energy into eliminating the agressor's threat. Thats how the law sees it and thats why the prosecutor will not file charges because it will be a wrongful prosecution and they will pay the shooter a settlement.

The only way theres a prosecution of the shooter is if enough political pressure is brought to bear.

This is the truth. Unfortunate as it may seem to those who analyze the tape with the benefit of not being the attacked. Sad situation.

7/21/18 3:31 PM
6/8/08
Posts: 9911
ranier wolfcastle -

This is murder, no doubt. Then again, this is America. So.. 

 

es normal. 

7/21/18 3:39 PM
4/11/14
Posts: 7759

https://www.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/90mb3r/iffy_stand_your_ground_call_do_you_agree/

further discussion, note the consensus from other ccw holders interested in the topic.

7/21/18 3:42 PM
9/13/16
Posts: 214

obviously looking for an excuse to kill someone. it's a shame if he goes free.

7/21/18 3:44 PM
9/20/06
Posts: 287

The amount of people on here who think shooting a man dead because of a shove, is shocking. When did American men become such pussies. 

7/21/18 4:32 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 41451
RenatoCocopreta -
pfsjkd - 
RenatoCocopreta -
pfsjkd - 
RenatoCocopreta - Hey, tell that to the thugs. We dont owe them any courtesy when they assault us, and none will be given.

Attack us, get deaded, youve had your warning.

You’re gonna end up in jail one day. Probably well deserved. 


Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.

See ya in lockup, tough guy. 


See you in the morgue libturd.

LOL. Stupid is as stupid does. I love when people erroneously assume someone’s politics because they disagree on an issue that pretty much has no tie to politics. Really shows a person’s character, or lack there of.