OtherGround Forums Florida Man Stands his Ground over Parking Dispute

7/28/18 1:39 PM
5/18/18
Posts: 324
Never_rolled -
CMFanforlife -

So let me get this straight, this guy is all tough when it’s a lady by herself but when he gets pushed down he is all of a sudden afraid for his life and he magically pulls a gun and shoots the guy. 

 

Where I come from that just sounds like a pussy who has a gun and wants to go around acting tough waiting for the chance to shoot someone and get away with it. 

That guy wasn’t even handicapped and looking for a parking spot. He wanted to be Joe Cop and go around enforcing handicap parking laws.  

That guy is a murderer and needs life in prison or the death penalty 

 

Not accurate. The shooter got into it with a male doing the same thing a month previous. You didn't watch the news story. The shooter also called the guys place of employment and is alleged to have threatened to kill him.

Then we agree

7/28/18 3:04 PM
12/2/05
Posts: 73734
Rounder8 -
Average -
holly9000 - Just out of curiosity how far apart do you think our positions are here? I don't think that guy deserved to get killed for what he did. It was stupid, and violent and uncalled for. But did he deserve to die for it? Of course not.

Did the shooter have the right to kill him? Absolutely. Those are 2 different questions though. The law agrees with me on the shooter's rights.

Is the law morally correct? Therein lies the real question; I think it is.

When the pusher started the encounter with a violent act there was no way for anyone else to understand how threatened the shooter felt when he hit the ground. Unless you're under attack it's pretty hard to imagine how you'd react. It's a lot easier to watch a video and armchair quarterback the situation. If you have a propensity towards violence, it might seem like the shooter went overboard. If you're a meeker person with a less than confrontational disposition you might feel otherwise. The fact is there was no way to know what would happen next just as there was no way to go back and un-start the encounter. IMO the benefit of the doubt has to go to the person who got attacked.

I believe that there's no place in a civilized society for problem solving through violent methods. That's a big reason that our society is so fucked up to begin with. A "shoot first and ask questions later" attitude is outdated and needs to be replaced by honest, sober dialog. That's the only way we can change the world for the better.

The bottom line is if the pusher had come out and assessed, and de-escalated the situation instead of acting out violently he probably would be alive today.

I feel sorry for his family but I understand the essential need to have laws protecting society from that sort of behavior in general.

Your (and a fistful of others) basically keep repeating this point: 

 

1) the law enabled him to elect to end this man. So he's in the clear there. 

2) practical/moral view: The murdered man should have known better than to push a total stranger.

 

So some of you say, it was the victim's responsability to not push a man, in order not to open the possibility of being murdered. 

 

BUT: The murder was there in the parkinglot, had his weapon on him and HE chose to engange strangers on his own. If he would follow the rules you want to push on the victim, he would NOT have engaged anybody in that parking lot. He would have ignored it, or, if justice is important to him, he could have called the cop. There was NO NEED to engange them, just as you say there was no need for the murdered person to engange the old man. Old man had other things on his mind though. 

Again: It was NOT his first time, store owner said he was a trouble maker, had the police called on him previously and had threatened to shoot someone at least once before. So NO, he was not there to deescalate anything. In contrary. 

 

This^

 

My god this forum is full of absolute morons.

Nah. Telling people not to illegally park is not illegal and not a threat. Can do that every day if he wants. Shoving someone is assault and is illegal and a threat. Why would you try to make some equivalence out of the two actions? 

7/28/18 3:06 PM
4/11/14
Posts: 7805
Stronghold -

Since the woman illegally parking could have had a gun, shouldn't the shoved hero have shot her too?

Actually she should have shot the parking lot patrol because he approached menacingly and she felt “fear”.

7/28/18 4:21 PM
6/26/06
Posts: 9767
Positive Energy - 
Stronghold -

Since the woman illegally parking could have had a gun, shouldn't the shoved hero have shot her too?

Actually she should have shot the parking lot patrol because he approached menacingly and she felt “fear”.


Because that's the same as getting physically assaulted and thrown on the concrete.
7/28/18 4:24 PM
4/11/14
Posts: 7806
RenatoCocopreta -
Positive Energy - 
Stronghold -

Since the woman illegally parking could have had a gun, shouldn't the shoved hero have shot her too?

Actually she should have shot the parking lot patrol because he approached menacingly and she felt “fear”.


Because that's the same as getting physically assaulted and thrown on the concrete.

Doesn’t matter, law is based on perceived threat according to you. 

She is a vulnerable woman and parking patrol is a mean agitated man armed with a gun...she should have acted first.

7/28/18 4:37 PM
6/26/06
Posts: 9768
Positive Energy - 
RenatoCocopreta -
Positive Energy - 
Stronghold -

Since the woman illegally parking could have had a gun, shouldn't the shoved hero have shot her too?

Actually she should have shot the parking lot patrol because he approached menacingly and she felt “fear”.


Because that's the same as getting physically assaulted and thrown on the concrete.

Doesn’t matter, law is based on perceived threat according to you. 

She is a vulnerable woman and parking patrol is a mean agitated man armed with a gun...she should have acted first.


According to me, you're too stupid to ever get it. The victims perception matters if they are an actual victim, which is true in the shooter's case and not true in the illegal parker's case.
7/28/18 5:08 PM
12/2/05
Posts: 73735
Positive Energy -
Stronghold -

Since the woman illegally parking could have had a gun, shouldn't the shoved hero have shot her too?

Actually she should have shot the parking lot patrol because he approached menacingly and she felt “fear”.

Except he didn't and she didn't.

7/28/18 6:51 PM
2/20/09
Posts: 12774
RATINGSKILLER -
donkypunch55 -
CMFanforlife -

So let me get this straight, this guy is all tough when it’s a lady by herself but when he gets pushed down he is all of a sudden afraid for his life and he magically pulls a gun and shoots the guy. 

 

Where I come from that just sounds like a pussy who has a gun and wants to go around acting tough waiting for the chance to shoot someone and get away with it. 

That guy wasn’t even handicapped and looking for a parking spot. He wanted to be Joe Cop and go around enforcing handicap parking laws.  

That guy is a murderer and needs life in prison or the death penalty 

 

Not just where you come from.

anywhere.  Using any measure of reason.

That coward initiated this situation praying for this outcome.

I’m as pro 2-A/SYG/CCW as they come and this situation is disgusting.

 

Get off your moral high ground because you obviously don't care if the handicapped have a place to park. Like it or not disrespect for the disabled is what initiated this. Clown

Hmm.

not sure if serious.....

7/28/18 8:31 PM
9/27/15
Posts: 6324
This is why I'm against every joe blow being allowed to get a conceal and carry license..it allows cowards to act much tougher than they normally would..if shit gets too bad, pull out the gun..I don't want a bunch of bad tempered dud s with guns at the ready

In this case I feel the guy shot way too fast..he could have pulled it out and threatened the black guy instead of shooting right away..I don't think the black dude was going to try to beat him to death but who knows
7/28/18 10:22 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 96261

It happens so infrequently compared to muggings though

7/28/18 11:45 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 41525
RenatoCocopreta - 
Positive Energy - 
RenatoCocopreta -
Positive Energy - 
Stronghold -

Since the woman illegally parking could have had a gun, shouldn't the shoved hero have shot her too?

Actually she should have shot the parking lot patrol because he approached menacingly and she felt “fear”.


Because that's the same as getting physically assaulted and thrown on the concrete.

Doesn’t matter, law is based on perceived threat according to you. 

She is a vulnerable woman and parking patrol is a mean agitated man armed with a gun...she should have acted first.


According to me, you're too stupid to ever get it. The victims perception matters if they are an actual victim, which is true in the shooter's case and not true in the illegal parker's case.

You're a little slow on the uptake so let me explain;

PE is making a hypothetical case that IF the woman shot the parking lot patrol when he accosted her she would have been justified using your logic because she could have felt that she was in imminent danger. She would be standing her ground, so to speak.

Edited: 7/29/18 12:08 AM
5/30/09
Posts: 16559

Fuck that law. The shooter should at least be able to prove that he attempted a citizens arrest before squeezing the trigger. Otherwise any pussy with a gun can get away with murder when he realizes he's outmatched

7/29/18 12:23 AM
5/2/02
Posts: 25537

There’s nothing wrong with SYG or CCW.  The part that needs better definition is what constitutes “self defense.”   What people are reacting to here is two fold

1) the shooter instigated the confrontation that led to the shove.  

2) this didn’t seem like a justified lethal force situation 

 

7/29/18 12:29 AM
3/14/04
Posts: 129322
ons ear - This is why I'm against every joe blow being allowed to get a conceal and carry license..it allows cowards to act much tougher than they normally would..if shit gets too bad, pull out the gun..I don't want a bunch of bad tempered dud s with guns at the ready

In this case I feel the guy shot way too fast..he could have pulled it out and threatened the black guy instead of shooting right away..I don't think the black dude was going to try to beat him to death but who knows

Same could be said for cops. 

7/29/18 12:30 AM
1/27/14
Posts: 5557
nottheface -

There’s nothing wrong with SYG or CCW.  The part that needs better definition is what constitutes “self defense.”   What people are reacting to here is two fold

1) the shooter instigated the confrontation that led to the shove.  

2) this didn’t seem like a justified lethal force situation 

 

Yup

7/29/18 1:11 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 41529
angryinch -
ons ear - This is why I'm against every joe blow being allowed to get a conceal and carry license..it allows cowards to act much tougher than they normally would..if shit gets too bad, pull out the gun..I don't want a bunch of bad tempered dud s with guns at the ready

In this case I feel the guy shot way too fast..he could have pulled it out and threatened the black guy instead of shooting right away..I don't think the black dude was going to try to beat him to death but who knows

Same could be said for cops. 

Only if you’re an idiot. 

7/29/18 1:49 AM
1/27/14
Posts: 5562
pfsjkd -
angryinch -
ons ear - This is why I'm against every joe blow being allowed to get a conceal and carry license..it allows cowards to act much tougher than they normally would..if shit gets too bad, pull out the gun..I don't want a bunch of bad tempered dud s with guns at the ready

In this case I feel the guy shot way too fast..he could have pulled it out and threatened the black guy instead of shooting right away..I don't think the black dude was going to try to beat him to death but who knows

Same could be said for cops. 

Only if you’re an idiot. 

Nope 

7/29/18 1:50 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 41530
OpenedUp -
pfsjkd -
angryinch -
ons ear - This is why I'm against every joe blow being allowed to get a conceal and carry license..it allows cowards to act much tougher than they normally would..if shit gets too bad, pull out the gun..I don't want a bunch of bad tempered dud s with guns at the ready

In this case I feel the guy shot way too fast..he could have pulled it out and threatened the black guy instead of shooting right away..I don't think the black dude was going to try to beat him to death but who knows

Same could be said for cops. 

Only if you’re an idiot. 

Nope 

You realize you just outed yourself as an idiot, right?

7/29/18 1:54 AM
1/27/14
Posts: 5563

Nope 

7/29/18 1:56 AM
1/27/14
Posts: 5564

Shooting when you are not in danger, nope 

Edited: 8/2/18 2:46 AM
5/30/09
Posts: 16564
nottheface -

There’s nothing wrong with SYG or CCW.  The part that needs better definition is what constitutes “self defense.”   What people are reacting to here is two fold

1) the shooter instigated the confrontation that led to the shove.  

2) this didn’t seem like a justified lethal force situation 

 

Nothing wrong with SYG then goes on to state everything that's wrong with SYG. Dummy

7/29/18 7:26 AM
4/28/12
Posts: 3983
Positive Energy -
RenatoCocopreta -
Positive Energy - 
Stronghold -

Since the woman illegally parking could have had a gun, shouldn't the shoved hero have shot her too?

Actually she should have shot the parking lot patrol because he approached menacingly and she felt “fear”.


Because that's the same as getting physically assaulted and thrown on the concrete.

Doesn’t matter, law is based on perceived threat according to you. 

She is a vulnerable woman and parking patrol is a mean agitated man armed with a gun...she should have acted first.

Perceived threat?? What a joke. Trump i s a perceived threat to national security and my well being can i put a round in his chest?  Trump told people to punch others in the crowd ahould those people be allowed to kill the guy that ounched them. Great example of a law meant to protezt your property and self from real danger being mis used

7/29/18 7:47 AM
10/2/03
Posts: 2433

I see no problem with giving somebody a little grief over parking in a handicap slot. They deserve to be shamed for breaking that social contract. It takes a bit of courage to do it these days. 

 

How things escalated from there is unfortunate and things should obviously never reached physical confrontation. However, most of the blame rests with the parkers/assaulter. 

7/29/18 7:56 AM
3/14/04
Posts: 129324
pfsjkd - 
angryinch -
ons ear - This is why I'm against every joe blow being allowed to get a conceal and carry license..it allows cowards to act much tougher than they normally would..if shit gets too bad, pull out the gun..I don't want a bunch of bad tempered dud s with guns at the ready

In this case I feel the guy shot way too fast..he could have pulled it out and threatened the black guy instead of shooting right away..I don't think the black dude was going to try to beat him to death but who knows

Same could be said for cops. 

Only if you’re an idiot. 


Wrong.

7/29/18 8:43 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 238

I blame the woman in the car for her mans death.  Technicallly, she did not park in the handicap spot, because she is still in the car. When you are in your car, and some crazy scarry man approaches your vehicle welling at you, you need to stand your ground and shot him. You obviously fear for you life so shoot and kill him.

 

If she would have stood her ground and shot him, there would be no need to for her man to shove the crazy man and her man would be alive today. This is why I blame her.