OtherGround Forums Florida Man Stands his Ground over Parking Dispute

8/21/18 10:39 AM
12/2/05
Posts: 74459
This is the kind of shit the media does:

"The shooter, a white man, was never arrested. That is, until earlier this week, when the Pinellas County State Attorney decided to file charges."

So he wasn't charged... until he was charged, just like every fucking person ever. OMG the state's attorney had to do it? Like you mean seriously?
8/21/18 10:41 AM
12/2/05
Posts: 74460
RATINGSKILLER - 

Update- charges dropped


The fuck are you on?
8/21/18 1:59 PM
11/28/03
Posts: 101221

wonder how much he spent onlawyers before it was dropped

8/21/18 2:12 PM
12/2/05
Posts: 74474
OmarsOwnGoal -
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I saw the video but missed the part where the old guy's life was threatened or in danger. May be he was allergic to asphalt


I've seen enough videos of people being put on the ground and kicked in the head repeatedly to support the old guy's fear of bad shit happening.

Good shooting - I wish it happened more often.

You wish people were senselessly murdered more often? What kind of fucking moron are you?

Hes saying he wishes more assholes that physically assaulted people over words were shot. I agree. 

8/21/18 2:39 PM
12/13/04
Posts: 5806
OmarsOwnGoal - 
tourist - 
Stronghold - 

I saw the video but missed the part where the old guy's life was threatened or in danger. May be he was allergic to asphalt


I've seen enough videos of people being put on the ground and kicked in the head repeatedly to support the old guy's fear of bad shit happening.

Good shooting - I wish it happened more often.

You wish people were senselessly murdered more often? What kind of fucking moron are you?


No, I wish:

1. selfish able people would stop parking in handicapped zones
2. that if a citizen has the will to tell the above that it's not cool to park in a handicapped zone that they have that right (or even responsibility) to do so without being violently attacked
3. that rushing up to an older, infirm looking person and violently shoving them to the ground over being a good citizen didn't happen
4. that the strong potential for the shoving person to again attack the person while on the ground or trying to get up didn't exist. If you don't think that was likely to happen I can show you a thousand pieces of video evidence that contradicts you.

It's too bad the dude had to die without learning a lesson, but maybe the next person in that situation will think twice about going up and attacking somebody like he did.

There's no argument about "stand your ground". The shooter's ground was being able to stand there and jack his jaw to a dumb bitch parking in a handicapped spot. Once he was attacked he was no longer standing his ground and had been forced to retreat and fear for his life.
8/21/18 2:48 PM
12/13/04
Posts: 5807
It was a totally unprovoked attack. The shooter got blindsided by a person he hadn't even spoken to and reacted.

Was the shooter a perfect person? No, he was reportedly an asshole. There are lots of assholes out in the world who would love the chance to shoot somebody legally. But in this case he did the world a favor.

I liked Bernard Goetz too.
8/21/18 2:53 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 44469
tourist - 
OmarsOwnGoal - 
tourist - 
Stronghold - 

I saw the video but missed the part where the old guy's life was threatened or in danger. May be he was allergic to asphalt


I've seen enough videos of people being put on the ground and kicked in the head repeatedly to support the old guy's fear of bad shit happening.

Good shooting - I wish it happened more often.

You wish people were senselessly murdered more often? What kind of fucking moron are you?


No, I wish:

1. selfish able people would stop parking in handicapped zones
2. that if a citizen has the will to tell the above that it's not cool to park in a handicapped zone that they have that right (or even responsibility) to do so without being violently attacked
3. that rushing up to an older, infirm looking person and violently shoving them to the ground over being a good citizen didn't happen
4. that the strong potential for the shoving person to again attack the person while on the ground or trying to get up didn't exist. If you don't think that was likely to happen I can show you a thousand pieces of video evidence that contradicts you.

It's too bad the dude had to die without learning a lesson, but maybe the next person in that situation will think twice about going up and attacking somebody like he did.

There's no argument about "stand your ground". The shooter's ground was being able to stand there and jack his jaw to a dumb bitch parking in a handicapped spot. Once he was attacked he was no longer standing his ground and had been forced to retreat and fear for his life.

The last sentence is what matters legally.  Was he (or a normal person) given those conditions reasonably in fear for his life?  Apparently the "state of Florida" believes that he (or a normal prudent person) wasn't / wouldn't be.  

8/21/18 2:57 PM
10/11/11
Posts: 2148

The time between being pushed and drawing/firing was too great. At that point it’s not reasonable for the shooter to believe he was in imminent fear of grave bodily injury. Not one punch was thrown. He was shoved to the ground and the shover didn’t indicate he was going to follow up with the attack. You can’t shoot a guy cause he shoved you. Well I mean you can, I just don’t think it’s a reasonable response that self defense should justify. 

8/21/18 3:11 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 17434
tourist - 
OmarsOwnGoal - 
tourist - 
Stronghold - 

I saw the video but missed the part where the old guy's life was threatened or in danger. May be he was allergic to asphalt


I've seen enough videos of people being put on the ground and kicked in the head repeatedly to support the old guy's fear of bad shit happening.

Good shooting - I wish it happened more often.

You wish people were senselessly murdered more often? What kind of fucking moron are you?


No, I wish:

1. selfish able people would stop parking in handicapped zones
2. that if a citizen has the will to tell the above that it's not cool to park in a handicapped zone that they have that right (or even responsibility) to do so without being violently attacked
3. that rushing up to an older, infirm looking person and violently shoving them to the ground over being a good citizen didn't happen
4. that the strong potential for the shoving person to again attack the person while on the ground or trying to get up didn't exist. If you don't think that was likely to happen I can show you a thousand pieces of video evidence that contradicts you.

It's too bad the dude had to die without learning a lesson, but maybe the next person in that situation will think twice about going up and attacking somebody like he did.

There's no argument about "stand your ground". The shooter's ground was being able to stand there and jack his jaw to a dumb bitch parking in a handicapped spot. Once he was attacked he was no longer standing his ground and had been forced to retreat and fear for his life.

older infirm looking person? isnt' the guy 47? the 47 year old version of me would literally kill the 25 year old version of me in a fight. only advantage my younger self would have is speed. however i'm more efficient now, stronger and more knowledgeable and would calmly win the figth with ease

this guy looks older and infirm to you?

when you factor in his history, he's basically a punk who was looking for trouble because he knew he had a secret ace up his sleeve. fuck him

8/21/18 3:12 PM
12/13/04
Posts: 5808
What do you think the actual potential for the shover to let it go would be? 50/50? What do you think the shover was saying to the shooter while he stood over him? I imagine it was some pretty terrifying stuff like "motherfucker you move and I'm a kill you". Maybe he was apologizing for over-reacting and assaulting him, but I doubt it.

On the surface of the legal situation, I think it was in keeping with florida law.
8/21/18 3:36 PM
12/2/05
Posts: 74476
Samoa - 
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OmarsOwnGoal - 
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I saw the video but missed the part where the old guy's life was threatened or in danger. May be he was allergic to asphalt


I've seen enough videos of people being put on the ground and kicked in the head repeatedly to support the old guy's fear of bad shit happening.

Good shooting - I wish it happened more often.

You wish people were senselessly murdered more often? What kind of fucking moron are you?


No, I wish:

1. selfish able people would stop parking in handicapped zones
2. that if a citizen has the will to tell the above that it's not cool to park in a handicapped zone that they have that right (or even responsibility) to do so without being violently attacked
3. that rushing up to an older, infirm looking person and violently shoving them to the ground over being a good citizen didn't happen
4. that the strong potential for the shoving person to again attack the person while on the ground or trying to get up didn't exist. If you don't think that was likely to happen I can show you a thousand pieces of video evidence that contradicts you.

It's too bad the dude had to die without learning a lesson, but maybe the next person in that situation will think twice about going up and attacking somebody like he did.

There's no argument about "stand your ground". The shooter's ground was being able to stand there and jack his jaw to a dumb bitch parking in a handicapped spot. Once he was attacked he was no longer standing his ground and had been forced to retreat and fear for his life.

The last sentence is what matters legally.  Was he (or a normal person) given those conditions reasonably in fear for his life?  Apparently the "state of Florida" believes that he (or a normal prudent person) wasn't / wouldn't be.  


They thought the same thing about ol Georgie and lost badly. This one is closer, and we have video, but I think the state will lose.
8/21/18 4:12 PM
5/13/11
Posts: 43978
Fake Pie -
Samoa - 
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I saw the video but missed the part where the old guy's life was threatened or in danger. May be he was allergic to asphalt


I've seen enough videos of people being put on the ground and kicked in the head repeatedly to support the old guy's fear of bad shit happening.

Good shooting - I wish it happened more often.

You wish people were senselessly murdered more often? What kind of fucking moron are you?


No, I wish:

1. selfish able people would stop parking in handicapped zones
2. that if a citizen has the will to tell the above that it's not cool to park in a handicapped zone that they have that right (or even responsibility) to do so without being violently attacked
3. that rushing up to an older, infirm looking person and violently shoving them to the ground over being a good citizen didn't happen
4. that the strong potential for the shoving person to again attack the person while on the ground or trying to get up didn't exist. If you don't think that was likely to happen I can show you a thousand pieces of video evidence that contradicts you.

It's too bad the dude had to die without learning a lesson, but maybe the next person in that situation will think twice about going up and attacking somebody like he did.

There's no argument about "stand your ground". The shooter's ground was being able to stand there and jack his jaw to a dumb bitch parking in a handicapped spot. Once he was attacked he was no longer standing his ground and had been forced to retreat and fear for his life.

The last sentence is what matters legally.  Was he (or a normal person) given those conditions reasonably in fear for his life?  Apparently the "state of Florida" believes that he (or a normal prudent person) wasn't / wouldn't be.  


They thought the same thing about ol Georgie and lost badly. This one is closer, and we have video, but I think the state will lose.

Except in this case we do not have any continued physical attacking like we had Zimmerman able to prove he was physically being continually attacked as he pulled and fired in defense. This douche just got shoved to the ground and was butthurt he wasn't allowed to scream at a random woman and got alpha'd by her man. 

 

He may be able to weasel his way out of a conviction if it goes to trial, but I wont believe for a second that he truly feared for his life. 

8/21/18 4:13 PM
5/13/11
Posts: 43979
pharochuck -
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I saw the video but missed the part where the old guy's life was threatened or in danger. May be he was allergic to asphalt


I've seen enough videos of people being put on the ground and kicked in the head repeatedly to support the old guy's fear of bad shit happening.

Good shooting - I wish it happened more often.

You wish people were senselessly murdered more often? What kind of fucking moron are you?


No, I wish:

1. selfish able people would stop parking in handicapped zones
2. that if a citizen has the will to tell the above that it's not cool to park in a handicapped zone that they have that right (or even responsibility) to do so without being violently attacked
3. that rushing up to an older, infirm looking person and violently shoving them to the ground over being a good citizen didn't happen
4. that the strong potential for the shoving person to again attack the person while on the ground or trying to get up didn't exist. If you don't think that was likely to happen I can show you a thousand pieces of video evidence that contradicts you.

It's too bad the dude had to die without learning a lesson, but maybe the next person in that situation will think twice about going up and attacking somebody like he did.

There's no argument about "stand your ground". The shooter's ground was being able to stand there and jack his jaw to a dumb bitch parking in a handicapped spot. Once he was attacked he was no longer standing his ground and had been forced to retreat and fear for his life.

older infirm looking person? isnt' the guy 47? the 47 year old version of me would literally kill the 25 year old version of me in a fight. only advantage my younger self would have is speed. however i'm more efficient now, stronger and more knowledgeable and would calmly win the figth with ease

this guy looks older and infirm to you?

when you factor in his history, he's basically a punk who was looking for trouble because he knew he had a secret ace up his sleeve. fuck him

This. Tourist post is a lame overdramatic exaggeration. 

8/21/18 4:37 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 44471
Fake Pie -
Samoa - 
tourist - 
OmarsOwnGoal - 
tourist - 
Stronghold - 

I saw the video but missed the part where the old guy's life was threatened or in danger. May be he was allergic to asphalt


I've seen enough videos of people being put on the ground and kicked in the head repeatedly to support the old guy's fear of bad shit happening.

Good shooting - I wish it happened more often.

You wish people were senselessly murdered more often? What kind of fucking moron are you?


No, I wish:

1. selfish able people would stop parking in handicapped zones
2. that if a citizen has the will to tell the above that it's not cool to park in a handicapped zone that they have that right (or even responsibility) to do so without being violently attacked
3. that rushing up to an older, infirm looking person and violently shoving them to the ground over being a good citizen didn't happen
4. that the strong potential for the shoving person to again attack the person while on the ground or trying to get up didn't exist. If you don't think that was likely to happen I can show you a thousand pieces of video evidence that contradicts you.

It's too bad the dude had to die without learning a lesson, but maybe the next person in that situation will think twice about going up and attacking somebody like he did.

There's no argument about "stand your ground". The shooter's ground was being able to stand there and jack his jaw to a dumb bitch parking in a handicapped spot. Once he was attacked he was no longer standing his ground and had been forced to retreat and fear for his life.

The last sentence is what matters legally.  Was he (or a normal person) given those conditions reasonably in fear for his life?  Apparently the "state of Florida" believes that he (or a normal prudent person) wasn't / wouldn't be.  


They thought the same thing about ol Georgie and lost badly. This one is closer, and we have video, but I think the state will lose.

It’s such a wildcard with a jury. 

8/21/18 4:44 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 41692
tourist - What do you think the actual potential for the shover to let it go would be? 50/50? What do you think the shover was saying to the shooter while he stood over him? I imagine it was some pretty terrifying stuff like "motherfucker you move and I'm a kill you". Maybe he was apologizing for over-reacting and assaulting him, but I doubt it.

On the surface of the legal situation, I think it was in keeping with florida law.

You can’t necessarily attack somebody because of their potential to harm you. There has to be facts you articulate to show that you were in imminent danger. A guy backing up after he pushed you doesn’t support a conclusion that you’re going to be imminently attacked even though he COULD easily attack you viscously given that you’re now on the ground and he’s not. 

All the videos you could show of people getting knocked to the ground and beaten have a bearing in that in all cases the attacker had to move *toward* the victim, unlike what this guy did to the shooter. 

8/21/18 4:52 PM
12/13/04
Posts: 5809
FETT_Lay'n'PrayNINJA - 
pharochuck -
tourist - 
OmarsOwnGoal - 
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I saw the video but missed the part where the old guy's life was threatened or in danger. May be he was allergic to asphalt


I've seen enough videos of people being put on the ground and kicked in the head repeatedly to support the old guy's fear of bad shit happening.

Good shooting - I wish it happened more often.

You wish people were senselessly murdered more often? What kind of fucking moron are you?


No, I wish:

1. selfish able people would stop parking in handicapped zones
2. that if a citizen has the will to tell the above that it's not cool to park in a handicapped zone that they have that right (or even responsibility) to do so without being violently attacked
3. that rushing up to an older, infirm looking person and violently shoving them to the ground over being a good citizen didn't happen
4. that the strong potential for the shoving person to again attack the person while on the ground or trying to get up didn't exist. If you don't think that was likely to happen I can show you a thousand pieces of video evidence that contradicts you.

It's too bad the dude had to die without learning a lesson, but maybe the next person in that situation will think twice about going up and attacking somebody like he did.

There's no argument about "stand your ground". The shooter's ground was being able to stand there and jack his jaw to a dumb bitch parking in a handicapped spot. Once he was attacked he was no longer standing his ground and had been forced to retreat and fear for his life.

older infirm looking person? isnt' the guy 47? the 47 year old version of me would literally kill the 25 year old version of me in a fight. only advantage my younger self would have is speed. however i'm more efficient now, stronger and more knowledgeable and would calmly win the figth with ease

this guy looks older and infirm to you?

when you factor in his history, he's basically a punk who was looking for trouble because he knew he had a secret ace up his sleeve. fuck him

This. Tourist post is a lame overdramatic exaggeration. 


He appeared to be older and more infirm than the attacker. Twig limbs and bad posture.

"overdramatic exaggeration" of somebody being killed in a self-defense situation. OK. I was just laying out the apparent facts. Like I said, there are lots of assholes out there in the world looking for a chance to shoot somebody legally.

This was probably the shooters greatest day in his life in his opinion. It will define him.
8/21/18 5:13 PM
5/3/16
Posts: 289
BJ Penn Forever - Honestly both dudes were out of line, normal people don't approach strangers about parking in handicapped spots, normal people don't push people to the ground who are bitching about parking in the spot and normal people damn sure don't commit murder after being pushed.

I feel this is logical.

8/21/18 5:26 PM
7/20/04
Posts: 767
Poleeko - 
tourist - What do you think the actual potential for the shover to let it go would be? 50/50? What do you think the shover was saying to the shooter while he stood over him? I imagine it was some pretty terrifying stuff like "motherfucker you move and I'm a kill you". Maybe he was apologizing for over-reacting and assaulting him, but I doubt it.

On the surface of the legal situation, I think it was in keeping with florida law.

Obviously you are incorrect since the DA decided it wasn’t within the law. 


I don't have a dog in this one but your conclusion is incorrect, Poleeko. A judge and jury decide what is within the law, the DA merely brings a charge. Think about it.
8/21/18 5:50 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 14227
Fake Pie -
OmarsOwnGoal -
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Stronghold - 

I saw the video but missed the part where the old guy's life was threatened or in danger. May be he was allergic to asphalt


I've seen enough videos of people being put on the ground and kicked in the head repeatedly to support the old guy's fear of bad shit happening.

Good shooting - I wish it happened more often.

You wish people were senselessly murdered more often? What kind of fucking moron are you?

Hes saying he wishes more assholes that physically assaulted people over words were shot. I agree. 

This

8/21/18 6:41 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 96742

Murder is now cool I guess.   Seems weird that someone getting killed for shoving a total asshat is just okay with yous.  

Act like an asshole and people will worship you

 

 

8/21/18 7:22 PM
12/13/04
Posts: 5810
pfsjkd - 
tourist - What do you think the actual potential for the shover to let it go would be? 50/50? What do you think the shover was saying to the shooter while he stood over him? I imagine it was some pretty terrifying stuff like "motherfucker you move and I'm a kill you". Maybe he was apologizing for over-reacting and assaulting him, but I doubt it.

On the surface of the legal situation, I think it was in keeping with florida law.

You can’t necessarily attack somebody because of their potential to harm you. There has to be facts you articulate to show that you were in imminent danger. A guy backing up after he pushed you doesn’t support a conclusion that you’re going to be imminently attacked even though he COULD easily attack you viscously given that you’re now on the ground and he’s not. 

All the videos you could show of people getting knocked to the ground and beaten have a bearing in that in all cases the attacker had to move *toward* the victim, unlike what this guy did to the shooter. 


Well, he had already been battered and likely scared shitless. I don't know what the conversation was, but he might have been backing up to get the perfect distance for a soccer kick to the head. Or he could have rushed the guy if he tried to get up off the ground. These are the thoughts the shooter was likely to have.

The big fact is that if he hadn't attacked the guy he would still be alive. If he hadn't illegally parked in the handicapped zone the dude wouldn't have given his wife shit and nothing at all would have happened.

There are lessons here for everyone.
8/21/18 7:23 PM
12/13/04
Posts: 5811
If the shooter gets off of a criminal charge, he'll get fucked royally in civil court. He's alive though.
8/21/18 7:39 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 44473
tourist - If the shooter gets off of a criminal charge, he'll get fucked royally in civil court. He's alive though.

I doubt he's got a lot to lose in a civil suit.  He was hanging around in a parking lot with a gun creating confrontation with people parking in handicapped spots as a hobby in his life. 

Edited: 8/21/18 9:01 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 41695

“I don't know what the conversation was, but he might have been backing up to get the perfect distance for a soccer kick to the head.”

This is one aspect I mentioned before, IF the pusher was talking shit it could *possibly* mitigate the shoot. 

“Or he could have rushed the guy if he tried to get up off the ground.”

But he didn’t rush the guy. You don’t get to attack people for shit that they *could* do. If that were the case you could shoot a guy walking toward you on the street because he *could* push you off the curb into oncoming traffic. 

I know what you’re trying to say but the bottom line with self defense is that your fear has to be based on facts. The fact is he was *backing up when he was shot*. You can’t start an attack when your backing away from someone. 

If this case goes to a jury trial, the only way the shooter is getting off is if he can convince the jury that he perceived that the attack was on going. That is going to be exceedingly difficult based on that video. 

8/21/18 10:55 PM
12/2/05
Posts: 74483
pfsjkd -

“I don't know what the conversation was, but he might have been backing up to get the perfect distance for a soccer kick to the head.”

This is one aspect I mentioned before, IF the pusher was talking shit it could *possibly* mitigate the shoot. 

“Or he could have rushed the guy if he tried to get up off the ground.”

But he didn’t rush the guy. You don’t get to attack people for shit that they *could* do. If that were the case you could shoot a guy walking toward you on the street because he *could* push you off the curb into oncoming traffic. 

I know what you’re trying to say but the bottom line with self defense is that your fear has to be based on facts. The fact is he was *backing up when he was shot*. You can’t start an attack when your backing away from someone. 

If this case goes to a jury trial, the only way the shooter is getting off is if he can convince the jury that he perceived that the attack was on going. That is going to be exceedingly difficult based on that video. 

We should bet :)